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I can’t believe this is still going on. How are they not in serious legal trouble.
Hysteria, hyperbole and conjecture aside, how many people are actually owed money?
Somewhere way back in the thread someone asked that question and the answer was something incredulous for the amount of noise being made like "at least 6 on pinkbike". Since then there seems to have been a trickle of refunds, either via paypal, CC's and maybe directly. Now assuming the average Sick bikcycle buyer is probably a pinkbike user, that's not many bikes sold is it?
So an alternative version of history (well, conjecture, but about as grounded in reality as any other explanation and kinda tallying with the timeline of their statements) might just be that they believed their own hype, and the reason Marino and others didn't get paid was simply because very few people actually bought the bikes. And if they didn't sell enough of the batch, they couldn't pay suppliers, which caused the delays whilst trying to raise the funds to "onshore" the frames. Then as refunds spiral with bad news, and suppliers cancel contracts and start flogging the frames directly things actually get kinda better as you can then just offer refunds as you no longer need that money.
Sure, if you've paid £700 (or whatever) for a frame you don't really care how many other £700's there were, you just want those £700's converting into frames so you get yours, ineptitude or fraud is irrelevant as you end up in the same outcome. But I still think it's more likely ineptitude and ego than industrial scale fraud like some are hyping it up to be.
Somewhere way back in the thread someone asked that question and the answer was something incredulous for the amount of noise being made like “at least 6 on pinkbike”. Since then there seems to have been a trickle of refunds, either via paypal, CC’s and maybe directly. Now assuming the average Sick bikcycle buyer is probably a pinkbike user, that’s not many bikes sold is it?
There are more than 50, but less than 60 tickets issued from the new ticketing system/inbox for people who are owed money or a frame, based on what one of the owed customers has said (didn’t want to give away which number he was). So it’s not speedX levels of money, but it’s more than pocket change.
It can’t be just a few people though, otherwise why would Sick keep making reference to them, putting off potential new customers (as much as they supposedly hate ‘potential’ customers)
There are more than 50, but less than 60 tickets issued from the new ticketing system/inbox for people who are owed money or a frame, based on what one of the owed customers has said (didn’t want to give away which number he was).
Given that most planet-x threads start with a variation on "I've e-mailed them three times already this morning and they've not got back to me" are those frame numbers or ticket numbers?
Even as many as 50 undelivered frames isn't going to let one person quit the dayjob, it's not even going to buy everyone at Sick a small hatchback even if it was a con and they pocketed it all.
Ticket numbers, assigned to those that wanted a frame or refund. I assume people who mailed about other stuff or to have a go weren’t given tickets. 50 isn’t a lot, but given their total orders is somewhere between 100 (what James said) and 300 (what they claimed in the indiegogo campaign) it’s Either a terrible hit rate, or an appalling one. And that just frames delivered, not including ones that either broke, or were in some way wrong.
And the undelivered indiegogo frames (gnarpoon and sleipnir) equate to about £30k alone.
Grow up Batfink, you’ve got a very black and white, idealised sense of this and as has been said above, most of the world doesn’t work like that.
YES he probably should have been on top of it from day one but I very much doubt it was possible to view any accounts let alone have any influence over proceedings. It will most likely have been a directorship in name only in a “in this time next year we’ll be millionaires and you’ll get paid” scenario.
Even someone that’s paid a deposit on one of the frames isn’t anywhere near as out of pocket as Lee. At £10/hr he’s owed £15k and a decent CAD designer can earn a lot more than that for their time. Have a little compassion.
Grow up? Lol.
Do you consider expecting people to behave like an adult, childish?!
Becoming a director of a company is not something to be taken lightly - especially when they are taking thousands of pounds from customers and signing manufacturing contracts for tens of thousands. And ESPECIALLY, when your business partners start ripping people off.
There is no such thing as a director "in name only"
Thats not "idealised" or "black and white" that's a) the law, and b) common sense (for an adult). Not understanding that is just naive.... but yeah: "grow up"!
but I very much doubt it was possible to view any accounts let alone have any influence over proceedings
Sick's situation has been all over the internet and social media for months - you cannot seriously claim that he didn't know things were going south fast, or have the nouse to start asking questions of his fellow directors. Its not like the other two were covering-their-tracks.... they were shouting their incompetence from the rooftops. I suppose he did eventually step down, which is something in his favour.
Have a little compassion.
I do have a little compassion - sounds like he made some bad choices (becoming a Director of a dumpster-fire of a company, then not taking that position seriously, and choosing to work nearly a years worth of hours for free - presumably of the promise of some larger payout down the track). But ultimately he owns those mistakes - like an adult.
There is no such thing as a director “in name only”
There is, but it doesn’t apply in this case.
Hysteria, hyperbole and conjecture aside, how many people are actually owed money?
Didn’t quote your entire post, but you make some damned good points. The hype they created seems to have bitten them in the arse.
I’m sitting next to Jordan* at my kids school sports day. He has a sick bikes T shirt on...
If I tilt my phone he might even see this.. (the thrill of it! 😬🤭)
I’m wearing a Heaven of the South MTB T-shirt, wonder if a chat will strike up?
* the one with tatts and a beard 🤷🏻♂️
Oh, to have a gnarpoon tshirt on in that situation...
Hysteria, hyperbole and conjecture aside, how many people are actually owed money?
Good shout, it's not cool to owe anyone money. But loads of people on here just seem to be bystanders who decided to put the boot in about something that hasn't actually affected them.
Let's have a show of hands, who on here is owed money by Sick ?
they don't owe me money but I didn't get a christmas present because Jordan lied to my face about when the Ti bars would be available for sale.
My view is the money's pretty much gone and they're struggling to find a way out that won't leave them open to charges.
pictonroad, where are you? Can we get a Gnarpoon t-shirt there urgently? If you local to me I reckon I could get away form work for and express/delivery/loan of mine.
I’m wearing a Heaven of the South MTB T-shirt, wonder if a chat will strike up?
Ask him about vegan cheese.
Pretend you ordered a bike and go mad. Video it for the lolz
But loads of people on here just seem to be bystanders who decided to put the boot in about something that hasn’t actually affected them.
So if I see someone getting mugged, I should shrug and ignore it because it doesn't affect me?
So if I see someone getting mugged, I should shrug and ignore it because it doesn’t affect me?
Yep. If you try and do something about it, you’re the arsehole.
But loads of people on here just seem to be bystanders who decided to put the boot in about something that hasn’t actually affected them.
So if I see someone getting mugged, I should shrug and ignore it because it doesn’t affect me?
Egggzakerly.
Customers are being taken for mugs. The evidence suggests just that.
I’m sitting next to Jordan* at my kids school sports day
He's just a bloke and usually very chatty. I'd say hi, be sociable. Maybe not launch into a great rant at the kids sports day and don't pay up front for any vegan cheese ahead of delivery.
My view is the money’s pretty much gone and they’re struggling to find a way out that won’t leave them open to charges.
That was kinda my point, there isn't actually evidence to suggest that all the money is gone, just that there doesnt seem to be enough of it.
They said they made a loss on some frames (ineptitude).
They appear to be unable to pay suppliers, but say that those orders will be refunded or swapped for frames from elsewhere. I'm guessing Taiwan is a lot cheaper than Marino.
So based on what they've said, and an assumption that they're just inept and inexperienced businesspeople rather than actually malicious. They probably still do have cash in the bank and plans to deliver frames.
AIUI, to be criminal they have to be knowingly trading whilst insolvent or taking the orders with no intention (or no means) of delivering on them. No way of knowing what their accounts are looking like from the outside, but assuming they've got any sense at all they wouldn't be trying to trade their way out of it if there wasn't some sort of viable plan (I.e. there are x paid up orders on the books, and they have ordered >x frames, and have cash to pay for them).
Yep. If you try and do something about it, you’re the arsehole.
At this point it's more like a Lynch mob with no one actually sure whether there was a mugging or who was mugged but just fancies a good old stomping.
You're the only one to call yourself and arsehole (CBA to go back and check).
Customers are being taken for mugs. The evidence suggests just that.
The point I was trying to make is. What evidence? Based one what little is actually known you could drive a supertanker sized reasonable doubt argument through it.
Pretend you ordered a bike and go mad. Video it for the lolz
Possibly the best thing I've read on here.
Don't forget to tell him how you were 'owned' by the all the magazines they were in including Singletrack.
🙂
I’m sitting next to Jordan* at my kids school sports day
The Dads race is going to be gnarly brah! Totally send it.
If he beats you, you should immediately challenge him to a fight.
Probably involving pistols.
Ask him about trail-running?
Tell him you are a mountain biker but it just isn't right for you..
They probably still do have cash in the bank and plans to deliver frames.... No way of knowing what their accounts are looking like from the outside,
Their suppliers haven't been paid. That's a pretty good indication that they probably don't have cash in the bank.
assuming they’ve got any sense at all they wouldn’t be trying to trade their way out of it if there wasn’t some sort of viable plan
The evidence so far is that they don't have any sense at all and don't have any viable plan.
He’s a chunky fella, I wouldn’t fancy my chances.
No Bombers in the car?
He’s just a bloke and usually very chatty. I’d say hi, be sociable. Maybe not launch into a great rant at the kids sports day and don’t pay up front for any vegan cheese ahead of delivery.
I’m not the ranting type.😎 There’s no such thing as vegan cheese😑
He’s a chunky fella, I wouldn’t fancy my chances.
Easy one to beat in the dads race, though.
He’s a chunky fella, I wouldn’t fancy my chances.
Easier target with a duelling pistol.
He’s a chunky fella, I wouldn’t fancy my chances.
Easy one to beat in the dads race, though
According to Pinkbike he used to trail run!
Type some shit about him right here, show it to him and see if he wants a fight. Didn’t he say that at some point?
The point I was trying to make is. What evidence?
iirc....
“The frames are on their way”
“The frames are just about to be shipped and will be sent out in 10 days”
“We’re delayed getting them through customs”
“PayPal are working against us”
and more where they came from. Not word for word quotes, as I can’t be arsed searching, but certainly mugging off chat
My particular favourite was ‘If you go to PayPal for a refund, it will take longer to get your money back’
Easy one to beat in the dads race, though.
Daley Thompson's son was in the same class as my daughter for a couple of years.
They didn't hold the Dads race.
His kid will be the one who can’t onshore the egg onto the spoon.
colp
Subscriber
His kid will be the one who can’t onshore the egg onto the spoon.
Attacking people's family? Classy.
I’m sitting next to Jordan* at my kids school sports day
UK scene insider!
Let’s have a show of hands, who on here is owed money by Sick ?
So nobody on here then, there must be some people out there so never fear the STW White Knights have got tour back 😂😂
So if I see someone getting mugged, I should shrug and ignore it because it doesn’t affect me?
Yep. If you try and do something about it, you’re the arsehole.
Attacking people’s family? Classy.
Blimey, I was hardly attacking his family, just a rubbish joke.
colp
Subscriber
Attacking people’s family? Classy.
Blimey, I was hardly attacking his family, just a rubbish joke.
No, you were ATTACKING them! With mean comments about their egg handling skills! On a forum that they'll never even read! Hanging's too good for you, you monster!
(if I knew how to do smilies there'd be a crying with laughter one here)
Attacking people’s family? Classy.
Blimey, I was hardly attacking his family, just a rubbish
jokeyolk, shirley?.
I'm owed money by them, but I rarely comment about as I'm dealing with it, sorry if this upsets the theory of pitchforkery
Let’s have a show of hands, who on here is owed money by Sick ?
Not me! They just seem like a pair of clueless dicks and its fun watching them continue to dig a really big hole for themselves.
SICK! BICYCLE CO. – FIGHTING TALK
The Brighton boys come out swingingby Smurf
20th October 2017
“YOU BE A DICKHEAD ON THE INTERNET, WE’RE GONNA FIGHT YOU.”
reap what you sow.
“SICK! BICYCLE CO. – FIGHTING TALK
The Brighton boys come out swinging
by Smurf
20th October 2017
“YOU BE A DICKHEAD ON THE INTERNET, WE’RE GONNA FIGHT YOU.”
They’re from Worthing. Not Brighton. Different town. Different county. Much more shit.
So nobody on here then
Do keep up, they stated some time ago that they wouldn’t sell bikes to STW members
So nobody on here then
Do keep up, they stated some time ago that they wouldn’t sell bikes to STW members
Their incompetence left me out out of pocket
So nobody on here then
There's the OP...
Obvs not as bad off as those without frames but they owe me a T-shirt or refund.
Obvs not as bad off as those without frames but they owe me a T-shirt or refund.
Fair enough I'd want a shirt or my money back as well.
But it would be interesting to hear from the OP or one of the early posters to see how their getting on. A list of people owed frames/money seems to have been created, is that list being worked through ?
I've known of people with a buisness that has gone through taking out personal loans, second jobs ect and eventually everyone gets paid. Is there any sign of this happening with Sick ? but to know we have to hear of those still owed money.
the last email i had from them said
"hi Chris, as the PayPal case is open, it makes sense to let it run it's course.
The T-shirt has been added to the queue for a refund"
that was the 28th May, I've not had a ticket for the t-shirt order and obviously wont get one for the other order, paypal are dragging their feet a little.
I'll await paypal's final descision before I take any further action.
but to know we have to hear of those still owed money.
Or the previously vocal sick bikes could publish some facts and figures rather than self serving statements and toss?
I’ve known of people with a buisness that has gone through taking out personal loans, second jobs ect and eventually everyone gets paid. Is there any sign of this happening with Sick ? but to know we have to hear of those still owed money.
Actually, if this happened, there wouldn't be anybody left who was owed money, so to know if this had happened, you would have to hear from people who were owed money but have now been paid off. There is zero evidence that this has happened.
spev
Subscriber
the last email i had from them said
“hi Chris, as the PayPal case is open, it makes sense to let it run it’s course.
The T-shirt has been added to the queue for a refund”
that was the 28th May, I’ve not had a ticket for the t-shirt order and obviously wont get one for the other order, paypal are dragging their feet a little.
I’ll await paypal’s final descision before I take any further action.
They could agree to the refund and bringi the Paypal case to an end by just clicking a button.
yeah they could ( I have suggested it) but they havent/wont/cant be arsed/ might offer to fight me on the internet but not in real life DELETE AS APLICABLE
for all those who think that Sick are not scamming just rubbish at business, I used to agree but during my conversations (if you can call emails with no answers that) they have promised a refund since the 29th April, after a week of them ignoring me I passed it on to Paypal (Sick havent responded to Paypal at all). It may not have starteed as a scam but it certainly is one now, they have lied (all of them, Jordan, Tim and James the customer service chappie) since the 1st of May without remorse or actually checking what the previous lie was.
As they won't email me or phone me I challenge them to respond either here on on Pinkbike
I've read the entire thread; so are we saying I shouldn't buy a bike from them?
I’ve read the entire thread; so are we saying I shouldn’t buy a bike from them?
They don't sell bikes, they sell dreams.
You can't own a dream, you can only aspire to have one.
They don’t sell bikes, they have difficulty in onshoring dreams.
FTFY
Roger. Request for one dream tendered. Let's see if I get lucky...
I’ve read the entire thread
Yeah yeah , and customers expecting refunds got them whilst pigs flew overhead.
23rd May email sent with request for a refund to frame/order email provided by sick. No response received. 28th May email sent for an update to a previous email. Response within an hour stating that my ".. request (36) has been updated".
"This is a confirmation that your request has been assigned, you will be updated in due course
Thank you for bearing with us during this difficult time, but rest assured the company is still trading and will work to a resolution as quickly as we physically can"
A titanium frame has been ordered no. 4(possibly 5) in March 2018. I'm aware of a titanium frame no. 25 been received early this year. 20 customers somehow skipped the queue.
Been told by Jordan over live ig feed that my frame should have been already delivered to me.
No refund, no communication from sick.
Weren't you speaking to a solicitor about this? How far down that road are you?
dinde111 surely Jordan has a record of the frame being shipped with tracking details etc? If he says it should be with you then he must have a tracking number, unless the pigeon gang he uses never returned and have sold it to buy grain, hes a dishonest shady character at best.
If he says it should be with you then he must have a tracking number
Look carefully at the language used. "Should". If I pay for something, I should receive it. Doesn't mean I will, for any number of reasons.
ah yeah I get that just wondering whether Jordan had offered the tracking number that he should have, I know full well it'll actually be the phone number of the local chippy but we all live in hope 🙂
Yeah yeah , and customers expecting refunds got them whilst pigs flew overhead.
You got me mate. Ain't nobody got that much time on their hands.
I too have followed this thread from day one. To me, it's not unlike the TV show Dexter from a few years ago- I suspect it might similarly end with a baffling conclusion frustrating many thousands of people feeling literally and figuratively short changed.
About a year ago, I sent my old pair of 24/7 Dark Angel bars -at my own expense to them as a gesture towards the construction of some welded bars which I believe they received a couple of samples. They were handsome looking things too imo. It's small beer here, but they kindly offered me a pair of the new ones as a reward for my generosity which was at the time, quite a generous offer I thought. Needless to say that never happend. I was and still am happy that I was able to send something of mine that might have helped develop something cool, I'm only miffed that it never became a thing for the wider customer base. I reckon they'd have been a good seller for them. That was long before the frame shipment debacle, but the writing was on the wall way back. For the record I don't happen to think there is a scam at play, I think they got in over their heads. Doing so with apparently lots of people's money.. eeek.
I think they got in over their heads
That's why children should always be kept under adult supervision. One minute they're splashing around having a great time, next thing you know, they've drowned and everyone's saying "But they were such lovely kids."
This looks a good alternative 🙂
They called it a ‘platform’. I’m out.
Jeez.... their tattooing looks as shit as their ability to run a bike company
Saw that Ribble at the bike show, looked lovely. They're trying new idea where they get the bikes built then you pay for them and they then send you the bike? Doubt it'll catch on, apparently they don't even challenge you to a fight on the internet, amateurs.
my custom marino all built up and riding amazingly prooving that its not that hard to get a bike here from peru .... no refund yet from sick though persuing small claim but no responses
That Marino looks sick 😉
That Marino looks sick slack
Nicely onshored sir!
Looks fun.
Nobody reporting getting refunds, no bikes turning up, no IG posts. Is that it? Have Sick just turned the lights off and wandered away?