[Closed] Unhappy Sick Bicycles Customers. BEWARE!

That our company is held under such scrutiny by the press

Really? Heaven forbid the press read the forums/listen to friends and then ask questions. Its not as if the scrutiny was exactly high either.
Hannah's article was, rather conveniently, immediately countered by that puff piece interview in pinkbike.
Even the Marino article in pinkbike came across rather bland and vaguely optimistic.
So out of recent articles I would rate it 50/50 scrutiny vs PR.

Apart from a new email address, what has changed

At no point in that email does he say it isn't our fault. Even if he still thinks it, to at least not explicitly say it is a big step forward, but yeah until frames or monies start arriving with folks it's just peace in our time.

Doesn’t fully blame them, but...

we’ve reached a bit of a stalemate with our supplier,

... implies that It’s not all their (sicks) fault.

we’ve reached a bit of a stalemate with our supplier,

I recently reached a bit of a stalemate with the barman at my local. He wouldn't provide me with my beer until I paid him. Luckily for me, I had sufficient funds to pay him, so I resolved the stalemate there and then.

P1ss, hot air & a lack of contrition..

3/10.

I very much doubt they can turn it around - they just don't seem smart enough.

Doesn’t fully blame them, but…

we’ve reached a bit of a stalemate with our supplier,

… implies that It’s not all their (sicks) fault.

Having worked somewhere "this sort" of thing happened it's conceivably not. We (at the time) were a healthy business but like a lot of business realtively little liquidity vs liability. A rumour went about the industry we were far from healthy and very suddenly our 90 days credit with 2 main suppliers became 30. That really hurt and very nearly turned a healthy business into a dead one, forcing us to sell huge amounts at a loss or near to in order to liquidate stock fast and pay bills. We never really recovered from it (difficult to explain to folk that £10 to £2.50 to £10 pricing shift so you're then stuck at very small margins for a long time) over the next 12 months or so and then 2008 came along and we (like a lot of folk) fell over.

I'm not suggesting that this is the same thing but, people worrying they're not going to get paid can sometimes be the very reason they don't. (the difference here of course is sick had most of the monies up front so should be very liquid)

The address on their email:

Sick Bicycle Co.
193 Tarring Road
Sick Bicycle Co
Worthing, bn11 4hn
United Kingdom

Was that the shop that they've closed or a new one?

That's the tattoo parlour.

You'd hope for some word of apology to customers for being royally ****ed around, but no, it's all about how humiliating it has been for Jordan.

I very much doubt they can turn it around – they just don’t seem smart enough.

If they were, I’d say they wouldn’t have found themselves needing to turn it round in the first place.

That’s the tattoo parlour.

DrP last week said it was shut with a For rent board outside?

I’d say they wouldn’t have found themselves needing to turn it round in the first place.

Indeed, cash up front from customers before you order with suppliers actually takes some real effort to screw up

That ^

That is there issue, not acknowledging their problems. The "look over there!" tactic.

Good lord this is painful, I'm almost feeling a bit sorry for these guys but the continued effort to put on a front is going to prevent them ever properly owning up to the situation. The problem is if you sell your brand on the basis of your personality then it's going to be personal when the brand doesn't deliver.

To be fair, they _are_ doing everything possible to keep their brand afloat. It's just all the wrong sort of thing.

I've been watching Joe Lycett's consumer program on Channel 4 recently & what struck me in every case where there was wrong doing by a company none of them ever actually said sorry.

They admitted they weren't good enough, they would do better etc - but no one seems to be able to say, shit - apologies for that, we messed up, let us make it better.

Sick are another example - the problems are theirs, have come about by their actions or inaction's, even looks like t-shirts & hoodies don't make it to the customer's in some cases, but in every big communication they have never once said sorry.

That Hitler video!

"How can I be seen in public without a bike? Stalin has a carbon Chameleon!"
"I wanted some of their Titanium handlebars, but it turns out they're weaker than Poland"

🤣🤣🤣🤣

If you have a delayed frame, or, you are awaiting a refund, please email frame.orders@sickbicycle.co with your order number. Let me know what action you would like me to take, You will receive a ticket number, and confirmation, of action and I will be personally dealing with these. I feel having just myself tasked with this will allow better ownership and faster resolution.

Strange way of doing things, surely the ordering system is robust enough that it is easy to track such minor things like "Where is the frame?" !!

CaptainFlashheart
I recently reached a bit of a stalemate with the barman at my local. He wouldn’t provide me with my beer until I paid him. Luckily for me, I had sufficient funds to pay him, so I resolved the stalemate there and then.

Indeed.
That said, I've mocked them when the mocking was good, so must now take it on the chin and acknowledge that that email's actually not bad.

Am wondering who they'll get to manage it though, given the... problems. Does this turn into one of those old TV gags: walk round a building, ask someone to hold one end of a piece of tape; walk round the other side and ask someone else to hold the other end, before walking rapidly away?!
Or are they desperately looking for a buyer for the firm?

Taiwanese frames....... so that's

Taiwan
China
UK
Peru
USA (for FTW)

GMT +8 through to GMT -5, for one tiny company to deal with

I would genuinely love to see their books. I just can't comprehend how, when all the frames are pre-paid you can run into trouble unless you've been utterly negligent or shafted from on high.
Back at the outset this was a hobby so no salaries to meet. They had a commercial premises, I'd assume with some storage, so limited cost implications for handling the product when it arrives. They're not building in house, it's just a paper shuffling exercise as a business for the frames, so you've no liability for stock, you order your packing once frames are on the water so you're not holding lots of empty boxes, you only order what you've sold and you cream off the return at the end after you've paid to pack and ship.

Getting bigger, causes problems with cash flow, but so long as your sales are all "cash up front preorders" that's not a problem. You may need more storage but their "drop" model means you only need to hire a storage unit for a few weeks as a drop comes in, no lengthy tenancy agreements. You might need a few people to pack boxes but that's agency staffing for a few days and so on. You might find that your healthy margin isn't by the end of it as you've not accounted for the additional costs properly but you certainly shouldn't find your self in a position where you can't meet the first of your commitments, maybe you've no money left to pay the carriers to ship the boxed product at the end but not no money to pay bill number 1.

The only way I can see that goes wrong* is you order what you've sold, you pay up front, the supplier takes your money and then doesn't supply (at all) so you're left holding nothing but a bill. It's not pocket change so you're not raising the cash to reorder easily. Wouldn't be the first time or last that happens, but surely at that point you'd not be trying to bluff your way out? You'd say "sorry", shut your doors and let the process run it's unpleasant course.

They’re still working full time at other things to provide a roof over thier families heads, Sick! it’s just an evening distraction. I bet Jordan is about to have a breakdown – not only the financial stress but the personal guilt over saying one thing and being unable to actually lift the weight by refunding and moving on.

That's the sad fact of all this, the likely price of this is going to be a lot more than missing frames at the other end but (to outward appearances) everything they do is making the fall further and harder. It's like standing on a bridge in front of a freight train hoping it stops because you're scared of jumping into the water below.

Or are they desperately looking for a buyer for the firm?

What would you be buying? I doubt there are any tangible assets (there's no reason there should be before all this let alone now), the reputation is shot, the brand name isn't theirs to sell and isn't worth much if it were. There's outstanding debt by all accounts, no repeat custom and resulting from that, little chance the brand could effectively trade on even with a debt write off. The only way that floats is if all those frames from Taiwan are genuinely in UK stock, largely unsold here and unpaid at supplier so you can convince them to take p in the £ on the debt as opposed to 0.

[quoteOr are they desperately looking for a buyer for the firm?

Buy a toxic shit show of a brand that’s worse than dead..... or just start from scratch and do it properly...?

Difficult decision.

It is like the Tory party of the bicycle world.

Jordan keeps reciting his deal and like May he has announced his resignation but not set a date.

Are any of you sure this isn't some complex play on politics.

Plus of course there's the (not so) small matter of a CCG against them. I doubt they're finding that's a massive help.

Difficult decision.

Has the bloke who brought Ubyk got anything leftover for another investment into a good brandname?
Although that they havent protected the name wouldnt help.

Plus of course there’s the (not so) small matter of a CCG against them

Damn! They've got a Clinical Commissioning Group on their ass?! Poor sods.

Eddiebaby haha, I'm in healthcare, either a. Stockholm syndrome. Or b. Keyboard...

It is like the Tory party of the bicycle world

Or Labour, seeing as Sick seem to think they've discovered a magic money tree that will give them lots of free stuff

Or Labour, seeing as Sick seem to think they’ve discovered a magic money tree that will give them lots of free stuff

Or the lib dems given they're being shafted for things that weren't their fault*.

*only they really weren't and nick clegg did say sorry.

Has the bloke who brought Ubyk got anything leftover for another investment into a good brandname?
Although that they havent protected the name wouldnt help.

I am personally very surprised the On-one brand owner hasn't bought into it has form for it.

I am personally very surprised the On-one brand owner hasn’t bought into it has form for it.

The difference I guess is at this point [the] sick are contagious. It'd be more leprous than Lazarus.

contagious. It’d be more leprous than Lazarus.

https://road.cc/content/news/62676-planet-x-bid-and-win-four-jimmy-saville-bikes-auction

So in summary - they took money up front for bikes, spent it on something else, and now can't supply the bikes that have been paid for by customers.

At what point does it become a matter for the police ? At best they were investing in other parts of the business and relying on continuing sales to pay their suppliers once the bikes were made, at worst fraud.

sick are contagious

Paying all those refunds is taking the contagious

at worst fraud

The longer this goes on with 'promise we are ok, buy some more from us' the closer they get to a fraud charge.

Paying all those refunds is taking the contagious

I saw what you did there... 🙂

https://road.cc/content/news/62676-planet-x-bid-and-win-four-jimmy-saville-bikes-auction /blockquote>

In defence of px that is at least a few months before allegations started to surface in public and whilst he was still, by and large, viewed in a positive way so short of being clairvoyant there's not really much blame there,though it had been reported in Feb 2012 that a BBC newsnight investigation was pulled, it really didn't go public as such until ITV aired their exposure documentary in October 2012.

But yes in hindsight I imagine it's not a purchase they'd make again.

 

I appreciate that my comment had to be edited by the moderators, a shame it was all removed rather than one line altered.

I'm out of this thread now.

https://road.cc/content/news/62676-planet-x-bid-and-win-four-jimmy-saville-bikes-auction /a>

Presumably all his bikes were fixies?

Matt, for the record, I asked for one piece of your post to be removed/altered and made it clear I was convinced there wasn't an ounce of malice in your bones! Agree that the rest of the post was entirely valid comment. Didnt need total deletion, IMHO.

I very much doubt they can turn it around – they just don’t seem smart enough.

I struggle with this point of view.

From customers' perspectives, resolving issues doesn't require a lot of smarts. You sit down and contact each of your customers directly and apologise, asking whether they're happy to wait for their goods or they want a refund. You don't have to be smart to do that, you have to be decent.

It strikes me that you need a lot more smarts to keep extracting cash from people without delivering anything. You've got to control the conversation and maintain your image, you've got to keep people hanging on long enough by saying some of the right things without actually giving the cash back, you've got to make sure you're not going to get reamed when the bubble finally bursts, you've got to do some pretty nuanced stuff below the water to keep that sort of thing going.

I mean, none of that is an allegation. It's all hypothetical, and whatever is actually going on I'm still just one of the many rubberneckers driving past this whole fiery-ostrich-flinging slow-motion car crash, rather than one of the unfortunate penguins having to sweep up the crazy mess.

But the point is that a lot of bad things are done under the cover of apparent incompetence; it's a form of The Big Lie, one which relies on people applying Hanlon's Razor (whether they're aware of it or not).

Having read a bunch of their messages now, I find them—the emerging pattern—fascinating, especially within the context of the "screw you all/woe is us" rollercoaster of a corporate persona and the business decisions along the way.

I dunno, I probably think too much about what's between the lines. You probably shouldn't 🙂

Didnt need total deletion, IMHO.

It wasn't deleted.

dangeourbrain

Subscriber

I would genuinely love to see their books. I just can’t comprehend how, when all the frames are pre-paid you can run into trouble unless you’ve been utterly negligent or shafted from on high.

But this is a world in which Uber manages to lose $1bn a quarter, despite having basically no employees, no benefits, no large premises, overheads or assets...

Uber do seem to have employees and premises, they have a big office here, despite not actually operating in Ireland

But this is a world in which Uber manages to lose $1bn a quarter, despite having basically no employees, no benefits, no large premises, overheads or assets…

I imagine that's very tax efficient though

Thanks mods and captain - appreciate things need to be worded more carefully, and this dufus couldn't find his own post...

👍

I don't know what's more difficult...trying to find funding for Sick or trying to work out their range of frames:

Shrike
Sesh
Gnarccist
Wulf
Hacksaw
Death from Above
Gnarpoon
Sleipner

Anymore?

I'm not really sure of the difference in the hardtails, and not sure if the last two ever got further than notional

Shrike
Sesh
Gnarccist
Wulf
Hacksaw
Death from Above
Gnarpoon
Sleipner

In contrast, how long did it take the likes of Cotic to expand beyond a single model? Make something good. Make it sell successfully. Make something else. Make it sell successfully as well. Repeat.

You can usually tell if the food’s going to be crap by the size of the menu.

According to Cotic website they started in 2002 and the range is now 11 frames. Stanton started in 2010 and have 8 frames if you count the variations in different metals, Bird started in 2014 and have a 6 frame range.

To be honest , a one man band could do a better job. They are moving low volume, high value items. This is not Amazon or Poundland we are talking about . One item a day . One frame, one box, one trip to the Post Office/ Yoodel MyHerpes depot.
One.Man. Job.
Think about it, generate postage label. Bung frame in bubble wrap, tube to protect the stays, bag of Haribo and you are good to box and send.
Then , after 0945 you can be CEO of a multi national company and swan about test driving luxury cars ,boats , choose your granite woork tops, spec out your home cinema etc.
They don't even need a unit, I could run that from my garage .

Fraudsters , they should get the watchdog team involved . Jeremy Kyle is looking for a new job, he can chase after them and shout alot and be antagonistic on camera , just like the canned show., but less fishy

Hope it's not to soon or raw for some.

Classic Film scene remake

Shrike
Sesh
Gnarccist
Wulf
Hacksaw
Death from Above
Gnarpoon
Sleipner

Anymore?

AM:FM
Deathwish 27.5 & 29
Have Blue
Ghettoblaster
There were a couple of variations of the models above too. (Hacksaw v1 and v2, wulf AM, year one gnarcissist etc)

Bugger didn't go back far enough sorry for the repost.....

Sorry but I've no sympathy for these guys anymore. It seems like the attitude of a lot of millennials I seem to come across in that they can do no wrong and its always someone else's fault or it doesn't matter. For that alone i hope they burn.

Bit of a convenient generalisation there andybrad. Are you sure it isn't their star signs that are to blame?

I'm a millennial. Better that than a boomer 😉

I’m a millennial. Better that than a boomer

Yeah, but still shite compared to us Gen X folks!

- Had to put up with Thatcher.
- Didn't have houses almost given to us like the Boomers did.
- Partied way harder than lightweight Millennials do and came out the other side smiling.

😉

I’m a millennial. Better that than a boomer 😉

Wrong.

If they had been boomers they would have ended up with a very successful company.

The key to having a successful easy life is to have been born before 1960.

MTB Rob
Member
Hope it’s not to soon or raw for some.
Classic Film scene remake

Posted on an earlier page but it's genius, funniest thing I've watched for a long time. Almost worth all this drama for it.

The key to having a successful easy life is to have been born before 1960.

Too right. Talking to a mate a couple of days back, if I didn't like my job I'd hand in my notice on a Thursday, get the Thursday Oxford Mail and have a new job sorted inside a week.
Heck, I've even had several totally different careers. Very lucky. I still would not want us to leave the EU though...

And yes, that Sick Downfall clip is epic. In fact that should be it's title.

Sick Downfall - The Movie with Sean Walsh as Jordan and Silent Bob as Dimothy.

Err just realised - that post should read 'I still would NOT want us to leave the EU though…'

That makes a bit of a difference.

[mod edit: given the nature of that typo, I've edited it for you.]

That makes a bit of a difference.

I was just about to add you to my list 😉

I was just about to add you to my list

I've had to do a bit of crossing out on mine.

Phew... I am an arsehole. Just not that kind.

top marks to who ever did the hitler /sick film edit

They should get Jamie Oliver in to do their emails.

If I'd accidentally stated a contrary position on EU membership I'd report my own post and ask the mods to fix it. And if they didn't I'd probably resort to somehow hacking into the database and doing it myself 🙂 And if that didn't work I'd probably move to Tibet and become a monk.

LOL @ Bez!
🤣

If I’d accidentally stated a contrary position on EU membership I’d report my own post and ask the mods to fix it.

Just to clarify - are you in or out?

If I’d accidentally stated a contrary position on EU membership I’d report my own post and ask the mods to fix it.

Indeed. I've fixed it now for him anyway.

Just to clarify – are you in or out?

Oh, come now, I would much prefer to inhabit the ephemeral layer of people's perceptions between thoroughly reasonable human being and contemptible arsehole 🙂

Also, one typo and a lifetime of sackcloth and prayer flags awaits.

So, has anyone been sorted with a frame or a refund as a result of the Jordan Proclamation?

Just wondering, and keeping this on page one where the Sick lads don’t want it to be.........

It's a bank holiday weekend, so he'll claim some nonsense that he cant transfer money. Then into next week he'll be trying to prioritise refunds in order of original orders. After that he'll claim bankruptcy

Why do they not just say we have no money but will refund as we trade out of the hole we are in.

I suggest sales are shit and it's impossible for then to move forward now without backing.

No one is going to back this.

No frames can be paid for from China.

Someone is going to have to put their house on the line if they have the confidence in it.

Why do they not just say we have no money but will refund as we trade out of the hole we are in.

Because if they say that then nobody will give them any more money. "Prop up our Ponzi scheme, if you're lucky enough people will fall for it that you might actually get what you paid for".

Why do they not just say we have no money but will refund as we trade out of the hole we are in.

You know what happened to Northern Rock yes?

No frames can be paid for from China.

I assume you mean the 150 supposedly incoming frames from Taiwan? What evidence do you have to support this?

Why do they not just say we have no money but will refund as we trade out of the hole we are in.

Trading whilst insolvent is illegal.

Plus having that CCJ will make it all but impossible for them to borrow money.