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who on earth are thse people following them?
People looking for free entertainment perhaps? The reason most people use insta and other platforms. Something like 28K followers? I doubt many of those would ever actually consider buying, just in it for the sick bants.
honesty not often seen
Trim down the quote a bit and it becomes accurate.
What is their current excuse for not answering the questions?
If I am following it correctly it was:
We had answered all questions.
Oh you mean those questions. Well couldnt answer them without checking with the team (I asssume this includes the sock makers/delivery staff etc since otherwise bit hard to see why they couldnt get it signed off with such a small team. Also not sure why the same rules didnt apply for the puffpiece).
wahhhhh. The forum are being nasty to us.
They werent asked in good faith (which considering how Hannah clearly tried to be balanced is more than a tad unfair. It isnt her fault that the evidence is overwhelming stacked against them).
In one of their older videos they show how they use an app to up the following. It's just targeted automated posting and commenting to increase visibility. Most of those services have been shut down now but I guess there are still some around.
Doesn't explain why the people who defend them drank quite so much of the coolaid though. I'd say the sick insta is also used by all of the "directors" (lol) which is why the responses can come across quite so disjointed/schizophrenic.
Vital MTB put a post on their youtube channel showing a bike check of a Sick Bicycle Co. Wulfbarron with pinion gearbox, not much love for Sick in the comments though!
The only place you find generally positive vibes for Sick is their own insta feed.
Weird that, innit?
(That’s said, even that is becoming more balanced, before any culls, obvs)
interesting that all of yesterdays stuff is up there still
No it's not, the pic is there but on my feed there are no comments.
there for me - i think you've been restricted/naughty stepped.
nothing says PUNK! like banning people who disagree. question is though... what did you say 😀
Still there for me too. Seems Cranked mag have liked the post. Be interesting to hear their thoughts on the whole saga, think they were one of the first mags to run an interview.
or dirt, but that's yer man off PB isnt it.
Still there for me too. Seems Cranked mag have liked the post. Be interesting to hear their thoughts on the whole saga, think they were one of the first mags to run an interview.
I've got plenty of thoughts, but I'm not sharing them here (or anywhere else public for that matter). And no, you can't infer anything into my unwillingness to share...
I’ve got plenty of thoughts, but I’m not sharing them here (or anywhere else public for that matter). And no, you can’t infer anything into my unwillingness to share…
Yet taking the time to confirm.
The whole debacle has exposed the absolute low level of competence in any of the online press , as much as the credibility of "Sick" is in tatters the people reporting on it should grow a backbone also and deliver facts rather than run scared of opinion that hurts their likes, or sales.
If a magazine writes a piece informing the reader of the merits of a bike/brand without doing due diligence on the brands ability to produce and deliver goods, are the magazine complicit/culpable in a fraud case?
In NA, if a company (a inc) advertises the service of another (b inc), even without delivering the actual service, that company (a inc) can be named and included in legal proceedings.
In NA, if a company (a inc) advertises the service of another (b inc), even without delivering the actual service, that company (a inc) can be named and included in legal proceedings.
so any website carrying adverts from GoogleAds or the other online ad feeds is responsible for every advertiser that has an ad delivered to their page?
or if a newspaper carries adverts for a car service co and that company fails to service a car poperly the newspaper can be sued?
I've no idea where NA is but is it near LALA?
I’ve got plenty of thoughts, but I’m not sharing them here (or anywhere else public for that matter). And no, you can’t infer anything into my unwillingness to share…
Yet taking the time to confirm.
Just being polite, since I was (albeit very indirectly) asked for an opinion.
If a magazine writes a piece informing the reader of the merits of a bike/brand without doing due diligence on the brands ability to produce and deliver goods, are the magazine complicit/culpable in a fraud case?
In NA, if a company (a inc) advertises the service of another (b inc), even without delivering the actual service, that company (a inc) can be named and included in legal proceedings.
Well the question really is what's the difference between an objective review piece on a product and an advertisement or advertorial piece?
So far as I know anything the likes of ST or PB wrote about Sick was on the basis of having had a go on a loaned bike and writing about the bike performed and perhaps their initial impressions of this new company and their products, I don't remember anyone writing that they were stand up guys you could trust with your money, just that they had a new company, and a "punk attitude"...
If a magazine writes a piece informing the reader of the merits of a bike/brand without doing due diligence on the brands ability to produce and deliver goods, are the magazine complicit/culpable in a fraud case?
Dunno about that, but whilst it'd be nice for all reviewers to double-up as investigative journalists the fact that Hannah's piece alone took two months to put together would suggest to me that this would be an impractical expectation on the part of the reader. Plus, y'know, I don't think many review sites have crystal balls.
I don’t think many review sites have crystal balls
I don't think PinkBike showed any balls, crystal or otherwise...
The Sick! company directors *think* they're showing balls...
I'm just surprised no ones gave them a good kicking yet. They just come over as thieving arrogant tosspots.
🤣🤣🥳🥴
I'm torn on the whole thing.
2 quotes come to mind:-
"the road to hell is paved with good intentions"
&
"when you're going through hell, keep going"
& I think both probably apply in the Sick! case.
When they first started, I thought, and I think said at the time, that the first bike looked wrong with the super dropped top tube and fairly silly length and their attitude towards (mostly) constructive) criticism sucked big time. BUT they almost turned it around.
I really don't think there's anything wrong with a couple of born agains trying to tear s**t up in the industry and they should be applauded for, and I fully embrace, their enthusiasm and desire to do something different, hell I very nearly bought a Donut tee (still quite like those). I am however, disappointed to see that their idea of "disruptive" is more fake it till you make it, mañana mañana & subterfuge if not downright lying.
They won't be the first people to caught up in their own hype and they won't be the last bike company to promise a bike they can't deliver. I'd like to believe they could turn this around and deliver something meaningful if they could just sort out their attitude and deliver on promises, god knows they've had some interesting ideas and a load of help from the industry but I can't help thinking the boat has sailed.
At this point a little humility (If they're capable of it) would work wonders and might even buy them some time.
I'd like to see that big gearbox full sus. I hope the designer's been paid.
dangeourbrain
Subscriber
Just as an aside, why would stock levels not being zeroed or indeed being zero have any influence on preorders for frames that haven’t been built yet?
The “stock” is just a qty manually assigned to the item (obviously there should be some logic behind it), it won’t be a fully automated amazon warehouse style operation, it’ll be done by hand.
So for example if they knew the next batch would be 50 frames they’d allocate 50 stock to the pre-order, the system will be set up to refuse orders for which there is zero stock so would prevent people being able to order frames that won’t get produced as part of the batch.
The stock system has no concept of whether the item is a preorder frame, physical stock of a frame or a t shirt, they’re just text descriptors.Of course in the particular case the system appears to have been given 10^z stock so that doesn’t hold.
No - it doesn't quite work like that - at least not with the versions of Shopify and other ecommerce software I've used. Generally, you can manually add a number of items that are in stock. Pre-orders or back orders are enabled by checking a separate box. If the quantity is 0 and the back order box is checked it will let the customer order, but will usually display a message (in our case we have something along the lines of 'This is a back order item, please allow an extra 4 days for delivery').
It's possible to change the quantity to 0 and forget to disable back orders, but you'd have to be a complete doofus to do that.
JP
I’d like to see that big gearbox full sus. I hope the designer’s been paid
Don't hold your breath.
https://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=211801&pagenum=63
points for spotting Hora...
I'm probably missing something but I never could see how exactly they were shaking things up in the industry. Is it cos they have tattoos and use swear words?
I’m probably missing something but I never could see how exactly they were shaking things up in the industry. Is it cos they have tattoos and use swear words?
I think it was more to do with novel approaches to both frame delivery and customer service...
Any updates? Anyone got a refund? Any progress of any kind?
I can see where their novel approach lies, whereas nearly all manufacturers supply a frame to a paying customer Sick decides to take the money and supply nothing but empty promises.
I’m probably missing something but I never could see how exactly they were shaking things up in the industry. Is it cos they have tattoos and use swear words?
It seemed mainly to be in making bikes that other manufacturers wouldn't (because the geometry wouldn't hold up to abuse, etc), and in telling customers to go **** themselves. You know, like when kids of a certain age realise that particular words have shock value, so they start to use them all the time to generate a response.
I would've thought that people who like the appeal of buying a bike from a company with a punk attitude should've known what to expect.
You can make radical bikes, and be a bit different without being dicks.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/article852.html
^i had a Racelink (#128) with Avalanche forks and a Park bike. My mate had an FQ and a Park as well. Awesome bike's, distributor (Ged the Hed) and a great company but the wheels fell off when Pharell Williams invested and Doc left.
See also Superco.
Sick have referenced Brooklyn a few times and their hook up with ex Spooky Frank The Welder gave me high hopes for Sick which obviously hasn't panned out
Anyone else get the sick email selling off old stock frames that are supposedly in stock?
It’ll be a brave or stupid person that clicks buy on those.
Yep, just read through it...... Usual bullshit, running a business is hard, it's not our fault it's just how it is, don't believe the forums blah blah.
My cynical side just can not believe those frames are 'in stock'.... Maybe in stock in Peru and Taiwan.
Can’t imagine how pissed off people waiting for frames are after that, why aren’t they at least offering them the in stock stuff?
Anyone else get the sick email selling off old stock frames that are supposedly in stock?
Ooooh. Do share...
https://mailchi.mp/ab67a5584dfc/deadstock-sale-and-new-garms-for-summer?e=247c187fca
Forum goblins to blame again. We're all terrible people even though we're not sat in folks money ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ah, so frames that have been built up, or scratched, or with bits missing, or returns. But you won’t know exactly what’s wrong until it arrives.
Take my money...
Ah, so frames that have been built up, or scratched, or with bits missing, or returns. But you won’t know exactly what’s wrong until it arrives.
If it arrives, shirley?
My cynical side just can not believe those frames are ‘in stock’…. Maybe in stock in Peru and Taiwan.
Presumably as the trickle of canceled orders became/becomes a tidal wave if there really are batches of frames all over the place that need to be paid for they've got to sell them to stay afloat.
Even if they are telling the truth and really are just having problem after problem. Then there comes a point where you can't just expect customers to keep faith in you having their money if you simply can't run a business.
It's a shame because if they do go to the wall then it's inevitable there's going to be less money in the bank and frames in stock than there are people who've paid up front for them even if the owners haven't paid themselves they'll have had costs.
And the alternative is to believe them, which is believing that they're just incompetent, and continuing to trust them with your money and body. If these frames are vapourwear have they been CEN tested or even ridden by test riders, or are they just the exaggerated sketches of two blokes who by their own boasting aren't established bike designers?
have they been CEN tested or even ridden by test riders, or are they just the exaggerated sketches of two blokes who by their own boasting aren’t established bike designers?
I have seen the answer to this somewhere else and it was not pretty from what I recall the guy refused to build them based on the fact they weren't testing anything.
Has anyone seen any signs they do test? No.
Sick claimed their riders test the product.
"overstock" lol
"customer cancelled before delivery" uber lol
So many gems in their descriptions
“148mm Boost spacing (but we hear people fit 142 just fine)”
“148mm Boost spacing (but we hear people fit 142 just fine)”
Mmm... flex much?
😂 come on what’s 6mm between friends?
This thread/sick just keep giving, utter utter trumpets.
Would be hilarious if a load of people weren’t out of pocket.
IIRC, Surly make the same spacing point.
Surly spec the frame at 145 though and design with it in mind. Cotic did the same for 130/135. Quite a difference between flexing 3mm when you've designed for it and 6mm when you haven't. I mean, it could be fine...
Can’t imagine how pissed off people waiting for frames are after that, why aren’t they at least offering them the in stock stuff?
Stating the blindingly obvious, but: Because that wouldn’t bring in more cash?
Oi! Flash’art no! Don’t be coming in here with yer brogues being all moderate & sensible! 😉
Oxfords, not brogues, Bez.
😎
Swanny, that makes sense, thanks. Just remembered something about Surly and spacing. Thanks for the additional detail.
there's selling your version of a story, and then there's this...From the Sale Website
We're working to make sure we can serve customers more effectively and be more transparent than ever (something, I felt we always did well anyway) - We've never been shy at showing our failings, as well as sharing our success, something you have all been part of.
Its easy to get caught up on the internet BS.
How many folk are actually waiting on a frame?
By showing their failings do they mean blaming the suppliers for not shipping frames they haven’t paid for? 🧐
This would make a great short series on Netflix.
Does anyone else hear a sneery David Brent voice when reading the stuff they write?
Bez! #flounces# with cane..
Stating the blindingly obvious, but: Because that wouldn’t bring in more cash?
This.
Can’t quite make my mind up whether it’s this...
Or, this... 3.30 into the vid before the real message starts 🤪
Just going back to the CEN thing - as I'm guessing these frames arnt CEN tested, legally what would happen for example if that ti FS with the folded downtube failed catastrophically injuring or worse the rider?
^ Brands have a legal obligation to ensure they make safe products, that doesn't mean you need to test to EN standards but it's a sound place to start. You need to test to the available standards and/or other suitable tests based on risk assessing the use of the product, how you market it etc. DH bikes arguably need testing beyond EN with suitable loads, bottom-out tests etc. If a bike failed and there was insufficient evidence of testing and QA then any insurer working for the injured rider or Trading Standards would have an easy time and a brand's directors could be prosecuted.
Part of EN is that you mark the frame to the standard once tested and certified and include info on the importer/supplier in that country.
If you're a custom builder you can't test a one-off design and re-make it every time so there's a self-certification aspect to all this with less need for marking for custom frames. If you have built a 'standard' design that you can show passes EN testing then you can vary that and not re-test every time, as long as you can show that the design is safe for that customer (ie lighter rider may get away with lighter tubes, just have some idea of safety factors).
^reckon sick won’t give a toss if frames fail. You’ll get the same bullshit if you try to claim them 🙁
How many folk are actually waiting on a frame?
There's a thread on Pinkbike which is a list of people currently being ****ed about by them.
What Jameso said - the testing is all about showing due diligence and protecting yourself / your customer. I've kind of got a foot in both camps working in fatigue and durability testing (bigger things than bikes) whilst also making a few frames. With a little knowledge, I'm very reluctant to make frames for other people....
Frame fatigue testing in the UK is relatively cheap and simple - Halfords etc will put everything through it. Once making multiple frames, I'd be doing like James says and at least testing a worst case design - I think one big problem is their hucking target market isn't going to be breaking things by high cycle fatigue (nobody is sat down pedalling a Gnarciwhatsit all day).
If you want to spend more money and test in more depth then the Germans have it covered. Scroll down and you find the test order forms with prices https://www.efbe.de/
Yesterday I watched their video of how to manipulate Instagram likes. I could sort of understand it for a Tee shirt company, but for bikes? Does it really matter?!? A good reputation in the forums and bike media seems to work for everyone else - just seems to be wasted vanity time and effort on their own little bubble that could have been more usefully spent engineering / making / testing / supplying....
wasted vanity time and effort on their own little bubble that could have been more usefully spent
engineering / making / testing /supplying
FTFY
Hmmm. Leaving critical comments on their IG account. Stock coming in. Sounds like they’re going for a reboot.
I was expecting someone to strike through all four words 🙂
To be honest. I'm not hearing anything new since this all started.
So on that note I'm going with no "reboot" but playing the general public for complete chumps.
then any insurer working
Ha you think they have insurance.
They are back to removing posts and blocking. You can watch it in real time. Prob hurts sales to have bad comments while shagging out ex demo tat
Is it possible to employ a bot to post generic bad reviews on their IG? Seems only fair.
You can watch it in real time.
Doing customer service on IG is a bold move, even more so when your approach to customer services is to bitch and whine at people with legitimate grievances.
I sort of want someone with some experience to step in and help them out now, as they clearly aren't coping. Sadly, I fear there'd be no money to pay anyone.
Sadly, I fear there’d be no money to pay anyone.
They could maybe do a presale on some frames.
That should work.
‘Because people are taking the piss, I’m not going to process your refund quickly’.
🥺😢😭
‘Because people are taking the piss, I’m not going to process your refund quickly’.
I hope you're finally understanding that you're the reason folks aren't getting their money back, Tom. If you hadn't upset Jordan with your mean comments, everyone would've been paid. 🙂
Bunch.
Of.
Crooks.
They probably don’t even realise it, though.
Not me, m’lud. I haven’t uttered a single comment on their IG. I don’t want to be blocked, and miss out on the fun...
I've had the misfortune to deal with a frame builder that was a bit "hard to get hold of"
then delivered what was different to the drawings/ then different again in another way/ then broke/then broke again/ then broke again but even he sounds better than this shower of shit.
I really hope their wish for a fight comes true out on the trails with one of the haters.
I predict someone running home crying about big boys bullying them...
That’s a shame. The spat I’m referring to above has now been deleted...
But fear not! (Didn’t catch it all, but it started out pretty civil, til someone not concerned with the transaction chimed in, but I missed those too)
All they said was "don't hold your breath" re refund. Or something similar
This is where Sick! are heading..
It surprises me that there hasn’t been a mob of angry folks waiting of frames or refunds come knocking at their door..
It seems like those people have just walked away, lost money and funded a crooked bunch of hairy arseholes from Worthing.
If you lot can’t organise yourselves into to sort of group to fight these lot, then you deserve to loose your money and walk around in a vacuous t-shirt.
🤷♂️🤐
If you lot can’t organise yourselves into to sort of group to fight these lot, then you deserve to loose your money and walk around in a vacuous t-shirt.
Bit harsh on the people outside of the UK that have been stung but for you UK guys that have lost money...
Good one finbouy 👍