[Closed] ultralight backpacking.

just me then.

Check out the bikepacking/bivvy thread. That'll keep you busy for a while and most of it is cross-over between biking and hiking.

Something like that, yes. It's not just you )

I did the usual 1st-timer amateur climber thing in the Alps one summer, full rack and every possibility covered. Got sore knees and failed to climb anything, trudging up the bottom was hard enough. Next time the bag was smaller, kit minimal, I loved it and we sat on top of a peak for the first time. I don't 'climb' now (was always a side-hobby thing) but bikepacking and lightweight overnight bivi-hikes means alot of the kit gets used. I've done overnighters in the Verdon with an 18l 430g bag and maybe 5, 5.5lb of stuff in it. That's probably not superlight but I regularly ride with a camelback weighing more than that so it felt pretty airy.

I never weigh my bikes but I keep an eye on the grams for bike / back packing. Love those mini / multi use bits of kit you find, always looking to condense and minimise it all. A simpler life is a good life imo, this is just a microcosm of that. Pack weight varies on trip type but within budget reasons it's pretty light I think. Current project (to appear on the bivi thread soon) is the superlight singlespeed fast-getaway bivi vehicle 🙂 approx / sub 30lb target.

Im into this, not ultralight but light enough.

Rucksack: osprey talon 44 (1kg)
Tent: laser competition (1kg)
Sleeping bag: alpkit pd400 (0.75kg)
Sleeping mat: exped 7 ul (0.5kg)
Stove: trangia 28 (0.3kg)
Pillow: exped (0.1kg)
Cup / plate / spork (0.15kg)
Seat: thermarest z lite (0.1kg)

Which is around 4kg, then there are the spare clothes, food, firestarter, headtorch which probably makes it around 5.5 mayby 6 kg for a single overnighter. If the forecast is bad ill take the akto and more clothes.

So I am slowly swinging round to the lighter is good camp.
I am borrowing a GoLite ShangriLa for next weeks DofE trip, already have lightish stove/mat/sleeping bag/waterproofs. Already cut down on all sorts I take with me, I wear Salomon trainers 90% of the time on the hill now, *but*....

As often a group leader or on multiday trips, come what may weather wise, the extra bits are not luxury, they are needed!

So xcraxer1's list does not have head torch, map, compass & gps, spare batteries, phone, first aid kit, whistle and waterproof bags for it all to go in (etc). And I would not be on the hills proper without all that, especially in charge of anyone.

It seems much of the uber light stuff is for one day trips for most people. And in (lower) lands with less inclement weather. Frankly I could spend 24 hours walking, sleeping in a ditch and eating bugger all etc. I could not do a second, third, fourth or longer....

I am still not convinced by the lack of kit, but I am swayed by lighter kit.

*walks off muttering about when he was a lad, Vango Force 10's and external frame rucsacs*

Planning on getting away tomorrow evening, somewhere on East Lothian's coastline - have a few spots in mind!

Just packing up for a 5-7 day trek into knoydart. We have a resupply dump set up halfway but even so we will be carrying around 14 kgs for me and 10 kgs for Mrs TJ 🙂 and thats pretty light. Full mountain tent and kit for sleeping down to freezing point, 3 days food at 6000 calories a day each. Everything in dry bags, even folding chairs kindles and lamps 🙂

couple of weeks ago we were treated to tent collapsing gales and other inclement weather could strike and we could be many hrs walk from shelter at points

The list wasn't mean't to be exhaustive, more to give an idea of the heavier items, but i do take things like phone, map, compass (whistle built into compass) small first aid kit etc. Probably still missed a few things off the list. Wild Camp mostly in snowdonia mountains where i live. Planning on going to the glyderau on sunday night.

Edit: something else important missed is my travel tap water bottle and a platypuss bottle.

My sister and her husband have a pretty lightweight backpacking set-up detailed on their website, but I can't link to it because it's been hacked and they're somewhere in the wilderness in California, 400-ish miles into thru-hiking the Pacific Crest Trail so fixing it's probably not a priority. They were very-much counting the grams while preparing their kit.

I have been known to cut the handle off toothbrushes. I do have a Ti spork.

haha. its good to hear im not alone! i started not being overly bothered about it but after walking a few 4 day walks etc and seeing the state of my feet and my knees (still only 19! but have joints of an old man) i knew i needed to cut down, and am now very anal about it. i love it! i have my full pack weight including every single item bar food and water down to around 5kg. if i bivi instead of tent, which i always do unless its pissing down it then goes down to 3kg. pritty happy with that really. also starting to think out lighweight, calorie rich foods properly too and after spending alot of time in tesco have got a few good ideas. am hopefully planning to walk lands end to john o groats next year around april time. any recomendations on light weight boots?

Yep. Me and my mate are off on a 5 day lightweight adventure next week.

We have:

Flights to geneva
Rucksacks
Walking boots
bivi bags
A rail time table to chaminoux

What could go wrong 😀

EDIT: Pack weight will be quite high as we're carrying 5 days of food.

Just packing up for a 5-7 day trek into knoydart. We have a resupply dump set up halfway but even so we will be carrying around 14 kgs for me and 10 kgs for Mrs TJ and thats pretty light. Full mountain tent and kit for sleeping down to freezing point, 3 days food at 6000 calories a day each. Everything in dry bags, even folding chairs kindles and lamps

Don't suppose you'd care to share your food list would you? I'm doing something simular next week and i'm looking for inspiration.

Kit list would be awesome too...

What could go wrong

'Ultralight' backpacking is really just 'backpacking' with a bit of trial and error. Wearing expensive bin bags and trying to eat with titanium toothpicks is never worth the weight saved however, especially after more than one night.

any recomendations on light weight boots?

Don't suppose you'd care to share your food list would you? I'm doing something simular next week and i'm looking for inspiration.

Kit list would be awesome too...

Food - main meals -
pasta /pesto/ tuna/ onion/ garlic
Rice / tinned seafood / stock cube onion garlic =- as a risotto
Dried soya mince with ether rice or pasta maybe a bit of tomato sauce
Then you get the dried packets of pasta and sauce and flavoured rice of various kinds - greatly helped by a little onion and garlic usually. I have a collection of small bottles into each you put the flavourings for one meal.

Cup a soup and angel delight - non diet 🙂 to make a 3 course dinner.

Lunch - bread and cheese the the first days then its oatcakes and sardines or the veg pate in a tube

Breakfast muesli - already mixed with milk powder - just add water hot or cold

6 - 8 cereal bars a day maybe hundred grammes of dried fruit a day 50 gramme of peanuts

Boiled sweets in a pocket

Is that enough calories - not sure. 🙂

Kit list I have nothing special - just honed to what works for us over the years. Always a book for example but thinking of getting a kindle for this

Pocket rocket stove, usual nesting pans / lids - just two pans and two lids one of which is a bowl / frying pan. Kitchen including everything from salt and pepper to washing up liquid to stove and fuel is a kilo and nests inside the pans. I have an insulating sleeve so one pot can sit and cook slowly while the other is on the stove

Whisky flask of course, maps, full set of waterproofs first aid kit blah blah blah.

Its Scotland so woolly hat, sunscreen, midge repellent, extra jumper

[img] [/img]
The only way to ultralight

deft. i would have to disagree with you. its very worth it for me as i can go further and faster with a lighter pack than being wieghed down by lots of unnecesarry tat. and i would go for approach shoes but have a serious ankle injury and so need to have the extra ankle support that a boot would give.

mikewsmith, you are very right about that with certain items. but tarps for example is not so. for an "ultralight" proper sil tarp type thing it is around £50 - £100 pound for around 200 - 300 grams. i got mine for £1 from poundland and it weighs 160 grams.

Food for two of us for 3 days is under 4 kgs 🙂
Probably the only real unneeded stuff we have is the chairs - 200g for a gadget to let you sit comfortably using your thermarest. Its one concession to aging I have made. Thermarests themselves are a bit hefty as well.

Its a crafty compromise between comfort and weight tho for sure.

If you take a fork, why not a knife? if you have salt why not pepper? And so it goes until you are weighed under with all the comforts of home.

i sacrifice a thermarest for a traditional roll mat. cost me £2.50 and weighs less than half of thermarest lightest mat which costs around £70 i think.

DJTC - 160g £1 Tarp?? Tell us more..

I cut down my foam mat to the minimum, now weighs 130g and fits in my rucsac or bar-roll. I'd need some soft ground and stuff to gather up to sleep well on it though. Thermarests pss me off, it's an area where I'm not happy compromising on comfort but mine has 9 seamseal-repaired holes in it and now has another slow leak.

Its a crafty compromise between comfort and weight tho for sure.

^this.

I still think most people are not telling complete story when it comes to light / ultralight

Go TransAlping using huts etc for accomodation (not carrying tents) but my kit list is;

And for those really sad guys, here's my kit list
2no shorts (1 wear, 1 carry) 145+220g
2no cycle shirts (1wear, 1carry) 159+164g
2pr thin socks (1wear, 1carry) 35+45+46g
1pr longs 307g
1 base layer 163g
1 cycle coat 307g
1 helmet
Gloves 75g
Balaclava
2no inner tubes 2x94g
Pump 93g
LED micro light 28g
Micro red light on bike 15g
Puncture patches 6g
Set spare brake pads (2 prs) 2x18g
Pen and notebook 60g
Mobile phone 137g
Shades 19g
Contact lenses 15x4g
Ear plugs, 4pr 4x1g
Razors (6) 43g
Small sun cream 120g
Tooth brush & paste 14 + 12g
Soap 12g
Camelbak 249g
Paraglider line 5g
Passport 35g
Credit cards & cash
BMC card 2g
Activcard insurance card 5g
Energy bars
Isostar powder 195g
Chain oil 81g
Maps 377g
Camera
Micro USB charger for phone 19g+13g
Space blanket
Compass 16g
Contact list
Tube Sudacrem 38g
Bike computer
Clip for map on handlebars
Whistle 10g
Boarding card for return
Bin bags (for packing bike in if argued at airport)
Labels for bike return
Spare spokes (specific Mavic UST) 21g
Spare headtorch batteries 7g
Warm gloves 49g
Spare jockey bearing 7g
Solar charger 70g
Tyre levers 2x12g
Buff 34g
Tissue (toilet) 27g
Winter gloves 51g
Fleeces 240+260g
Disco pants 168g
Contact lens mirror 7g

bike 11050g

Shared equipment
Multitool, 1 between 2 104g
Spare 5mm and 2mm alen keys
8mm Allen extension 8g
Selection cable ties (incl some massive ones) 51g
Michelin map(s) yellow series for overall area 87g
Cassette removal tool 30g
Selection bolts nuts etc 92g
2 spare chainring bolts
Superglue
First aid stuff 1 between 2 incl steristrips, loads steriwipes 137g
Spare spokes 28g
Knife
Sewing kit
Shock pump
Spare gear cable 19g
Spare chain links plus 2 spare Sram connectors
French and Italian phrase books
Roll insulation tape
1m gaffer tape 17g
Spare phone battery 29g

That's for 2 weeks.

C

What do you use as a stove? I sometimes use a single person trangia 28 which is around 300g, but also use a ti kettle/karrimor ti stove/lightweight windshield

Packed up now - with 3 days food bang on target at 14 kgs Bit more than I'd like but its 3 days food plus enough kit to be [i]comfy[/i] at freezing point. That includes waterproofs, fleece, 3 days clothes, two sticks, maps and stuff. Mrs TJ 11 kg 🙂

So with fat 9 calories a gram and carbs 4 have I got enough calories there? Not sure

jameso - go to your local poundland, in the camping section and buy the groundsheet. its not very big, but if your using a bivvy bag then its more than enough to cover your head and backpack etc. and if you damage it, you can just replace it, you can replace it 50 times for the price of one siltarp. also, if you do want a thermarest type mat then go for alpkit, i used to use the old wee airik which they dont make now but im sure they do a similar. no problems with any punctures etc even on rocky and thorny ground etc. and very reasonably priced.

xcracer 1, you could deffinatley drop weight on the stove, i use an evernew ti cookpot which weight 96 grams and a coleman f1 lite stove which weight 72 grams. and thats it. the pot is also the perfect size to fit in the gas canister, stove and spork inside it to stay organised.

tandem jeremy. drop some weight by not taking so many clothes. take enough to be warm but dont take any spares, just get a bit smelly, all part of it.

Got to have at least one spare set in case of soakings. Could loose a t shirt or so perhpas

merino tops. wear them for a week and they don't stink like synthetics.

i want to knock myself up one of these rather than carry gas/meths.

edit: you can send thermarests back to Thermarest for repairs. lifetime garuntee?

edit edit: limited lifetime warranty.

http://cascadedesigns.com/therm-a-rest/warranty-and-repair

@alpin - that stove idea is great - will keep in mind for future bike/hikes! Thanks for that link. On second thought though - dry kindling not usually in abundance in Scotland!

It does work - I have a bodged one of them, and we use Kelly/Ghillie/Storm kettles at work daily, year round and I never now have a problem lighting them and getting a brew on...

What do you use as a stove?

I had a coleman F1 (75g ish) but the fold-out arms are fixed by a bit of plastic that got too hot and jammed, not a great design imo. Now have an MSR pocket rocket, about 80g, I think it's a better stove. I've seen slightly chunkier copies by Trekmates in TKMax for £10. (TKMax can be quite good for cheap merino tops, stoves, camping odds and ends) The small gas cans fit inside an Alpkit MyTiMug nicely. Not silly light cook system, but totally reliable. I just use one mug and do drinks first, then food in a batch or 2. In Europe i have to use a clunky CampingGaz stove to fit their gas cans, it's 2x the weight of the MSR but still not too bulky.

What do you use as a stove? I sometimes use a single person trangia 28 which is around 300g, but also use a ti kettle/karrimor ti stove/lightweight windshield

12g plus whatever fuel. Stove, mug, windshield and fuel for 24 hours = 150g

[img] [/img]

Just back home after my night away next to an East Lothian beach, by foot rather than bike - only a few kilometres from parking. Certainly not lightweight by any means so I didn't even bother weighing before I left... main weight was three litres of water as there would be no potable water available. Don't think that the weight of tarp and bivi would be any lighter than my Terra Nova Laser Comp 1 tent..?! No doubt a lightweight down bag would be smaller and lighter than my Ajungilak spring bag.

Cooked over a driftwood fire (a 'Look What We Found' meal with boil-in-the-bag rice) with half a bottle of red, and some chocolate. Watched the sun go down, fed the fire with the remaining wood I'd gathered and then retired to bed.

Up this morning, got a brew on whilst idly tidying up.

Bliss. Can't wait to do it again.

[img] [/img]

still s8tannorm what is that?

still s8tannorm what is that?

Pop can meths stove (albeit a slightly rough/rushed one)
[url= http://welshridething.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/pop-can-stove-part-1.html ]Instructions - part 1[/url]
[url= http://welshridething.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/pop-can-stove-part-2.html ]Instructions - part 2[/url]

I made a few using Heineken cans - worked under test conditions but was too flakey 'in the field' as it were, so I bought a 'White Box' stove from the US and haven't looked back:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WHITE-BOX-SOLO-II-STOVE-COMBO-NEW-AND-IMPROVED-/320882319491

My penny stove kit
[img] [/img]
which all fits in a cup
[img] [/img]
and works well in the field too.
[img] [/img]

...may have to give it another go; it's an excuse to consume some Heineken if nothing else!

Big Three:

Sleeping bag: 877g - this does me year round, lighter option available
Shelter: MLD Trailstar 700g with decent Y pegs, add 370g for Oookworks inner [midge season]
Pack: ULA Conduit 596g

Summer base weight is around 4.7kg up to 6.5kg in winter.

[img] [/img]

vorlich, like the look of that shelter. what sleeping bag is that you use?

I've only used the Trailstar for 2 nights so far, but is well proven in windy UK conditions. Massive for one and still large for two.

I'm using a Montbell down hugger, imported from the US, the only brand with full length elasticated baffles, makes for a comfy bag if you're broad. I use it with a thermal liner in winter.

Rab and Western Mountaineering bags are also good. Although many ULers favour quilts.

I tried the beer can stove a couple of times, but the boil time is nothing approaching that of a bog standard gas burner so I'm sticking with that. I use a Terra Nova Ti pot, into which my stove and gas used to fit. However, I've just discovered the Primus cart is slightly bigger than the Coleman one so it's back to the drawing board on that one.

Just put a bit of info about my double-wall woodgas stove in the master bivi thread:
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/sick-as-a-dog-so-show-me-you-bivi-bikepacking-adventure-racing-gear/page/61#post-3833751

sounds like a nice toasty bag vorlich. iv just purchased a vango venom 300. weight 870g. happy with that as will be easily abel to use it year round. nice small pack size too. will be in the brecon beacons bivving all next weekend. hopefully it will stay nice!

What happened to the 'sick as a dog/bike and bivvy thread' ?

rudedog
I linked to it 3 posts up.

The problem with long threads on singletrack is that they don't really show up in your activity unless you've just posted. There's no way for people to get alerts if other people post.

Just back from our 5 days trekking. Carried a days food we didn't use - other than that [i]everything[/i] was used. NO more than a kilo could have been lost from each of our pack weights without compromising safety and comfort too much

vorlich - your 4.7 kgs - including waterproofs / sticks / emergency kit / food etc? to get enough food for 24 hrs is the best part of a kilo if its all dried

i just got packed up ready for a 4 dayer in the brecon beacons, total pack weight including all kit and food was just over 5kg. just add water on top of that and thats it. please with that!

4 days food and your kit 5 kgs? - your food alone should be around 2.5 - 4 kgs to get eough calories assuming a lot of fat in the food - more if its carb based.

does that include waterproofs? sticks? compass? first aid kit? stove? fuel? spare clothes?

it includes everything. i dont take spare clothes and my first aid kit is just compeed and ibruprofen. and with the food i select very carefully, lots of noodles, rice cakes, squares, dried fruit etc.

DJTC - for being in the hills I want 4000ish calories a day - thats a kilo aprrox a day so at least 3 kgs just for food

Sorry - I simply do not buy 4 days food and everything else for 5 kilos.

No spare clothes - basic safety fail.

well im not here to have an argument with you, im just saying what it was. maybe i eat less than you? maybe i take less/ more lightweight kit than you? it is not a safety fail if you have a good pair of waterproofs, which i do. its up to me how "safe" i want to be. i dont think taking a spare pair of trousers and tops is worth it when i can stay dry in what im wearing. i take a bivi, not tent, i use a down sleeping bag with small foam mat, ti pot with f1 lite stove, carbon poles, osprey atomos pack, aquamira frontier water filter, few little bits and pieces. all there is to it really.

Whilst I had a plastercast on my wrist this spring, me and olive the dog did the Dorset coast on foot.
Golite shangrila 3, ti meths stove, osprey 55l backpack, dog bowl and dog food etc etc. all in its 10kg including 3kg of water...

And it's the water that makes a mockery of your ti spork and carbon pants, You have to spend loads of money to save 1000g, and then you carry 3000g of water and have half of it left when you get to wherever.

Gonna crack on and do the Devon coast soon.

One of the "joys' of backpacking in Scotland is not having to carry 3 litres of water 🙂

Don't need to carry water in Scotland. However its the food. A kilo a day a person is a reasonable amount for food. Carbs are 4 calories a gramme, fats 9. Want enough food to carry you up mountains ( 4000 calories a day? ) then you need at least half a kilo a day probably nearer a kilo.

I would never go up into the mountains without a complete spare set of clothes - so what happens if you fall in a river? without the dry set of clothes it will be at best a very miserable experience at worst you could die of exposure.
Just three weeks ago we were faced with gale force winds, snow on the ground and air temps towards freezing point

Again I do wonder if a part of this is where you are going - at times I can be a complete days walk from any shelter /habitation / road. I need to be confident that if I fell into a river and broke my leg I would survive overnight

i understand your point, but if there are no big rivers where im walking, then its not neccessary. and i tend to not do any large river crossings anyway.

Can you change wet pants with a broken leg? If Joe Simpson can do what he did, I reckon I can crawl for a day and be ok )

I'm intrigued with the lightweight stuff as my pack weight is well in excess of many of those on here, and I would like to get back into overnight wild camping at some point.

However, I am especially interested in how folk keep a down bag dry for 2,3,4 days under a tarp when the weather turns crap. I have spent weekends in the Lakes where it has rained pretty much constantly for 48 hours with high winds sometimes laying the tent nearly flat.

I seem to have enough difficulty keeping everything dry and have been mildly damp for the whole trip on occasions as water always gets into waterproofs up the sleeves and down your face. I do enjoy getting into a spare (and dry) pair of thermals leaving the damp kit for the next day.

One of the best things I did was go for a water filter instead of 3l of water.
Everywhere I go is hilly and therefore refill spots are plentiful. You basically set off with a full bottle and refill as necessary.

Mine is a travel tap.
http://www.drinksafe-systems.co.uk/products.php

They do one which fits into a bottle cage if you ask. (they all used to be like that). 165g only and £35 - a total no-brainer imo especially as I used to carry that 3kg on my back and now carry 1kg on the bike instead.

i do the same. so much easier. i use an aquamira frontier pro. costs £20 weighs 60 grams and ataches strait to bottle.

On the subject of the weight of food.
It's pretty interesting.
Have you calculated that you need/use 4000 calories per day TJ?

I've only started recently, but I was factoring on needing 2500 calories for the middle day.
Mind you, I only weigh 60Kg and my all-up kit weight (including bike) is 16kg minus food+water.

(bike is 10.8kg)
(add 1kg for water as mentioned above).

What I do is trekking in the mountains walking 10 - 15 miles a day over rough terrain with significant climbing. 4000 calories a day is a rough estimate but 2500 would not be enough for me or Mrs TJ 🙂 Mind you if yo are only 60 kgs you would barely make a snack for us. 🙂 I am nearer 90 kgs.

I can't afford to lose any more weight though 😉

Are you insinuating I could 🙁

Our last trek I actually lost around 3 kgs I think - and a fair bit more to go 🙂

If you lost weight (and were healthy), then I guess your 4000 calorie estimate must be pretty good.

My first few trips will be near civilization (you can't go far from it in the Peak District), so I don't really have to worry too much at this stage.

Alexsimon... Thanks for the pointer, great idea, but along the coast we get horrible little streams full of farm run off and dead sheep. I would not risk it. It's rarely more than 3 hours between water (pub, cafe, knock on a strangers door if need be). Actually there are far more taps than likely looking streams.

Perfect above civilisation, but at sea level you at the very end of the system.

I'm intrigued with the lightweight stuff as my pack weight is well in excess of many of those on here, and I would like to get back into overnight wild camping at some point.

However, I am especially interested in how folk keep a down bag dry for 2,3,4 days under a tarp when the weather turns crap. I have spent weekends in the Lakes where it has rained pretty much constantly for 48 hours with high winds sometimes laying the tent nearly flat.

I seem to have enough difficulty keeping everything dry and have been mildly damp for the whole trip on occasions as water always gets into waterproofs up the sleeves and down your face. I do enjoy getting into a spare (and dry) pair of thermals leaving the damp kit for the next day.

Posting this again as it got lost in the food debate. Would really like to know how folk manage it and what kit they use to do so.

I've just bought a synthetic bag to see how it compares and to give me the option if I want to try bivvy-ing again. However, I still prefer a tent for the added shelter/comfort/midglessness.

I just went for a 'lightweight' lite approach. As I had a group, I did still carry a fairly hefty first aid kit, another jumper and some spare food...
But I did try out a Go-Lite Shangri-la [url= http://www.outdoorwarehouse.co.uk/index.cfm?action=article.read&articleId=3AFA2158-FF29-08BD-486A9DEFBE600778 ]This one, borrowed from Tom[/url]. Seemed a great thing, snug on space compared to what I am used to, draft, but felt quite sturdy and worked just fine. Not sure how it would cope with real driving wind, but played with a'high' and a 'low' pitch and it seemed adaptable. Maybe I like many have become used to pitching where I fancy, rather than seeking a suitable, sheltered site...Also note that I needed a ground sheet protector, so making it less light than expected...
I also now have uber light Montane waterproofs, compared to old Patagonia overtrousers and Paramo jacket, so that stripped out a lot.
I took only a wee water bottle, and filled up more often.
Borrowed a really light sleeping mat, not as comfy as I was expecting, but that may be the type - it also made a racket when I turned over!
I took no trousers - wore shorts, had thermal longs with me and a pair of overtrousers. Again, experience says that this works down to easiy sub-zero.
I reckon I knocked 5-10lt of my pack, and had it down to 10kg, from a usual 12ish.
Smaller/lighter sleeping bag would help (I have old ME Dragon 500/3+ season), an even lighter kip mat, and moving away from my steel+copper pans and pocket rocket stylee gas stove / stop buying bigger cartridges(!) would also help.
And I have decided that after a years use, my Montane Dyno is the best bit of outdoor kit I have owned in a while...I just seem to wear it 80% of the time I am active outdoors. Perfect balance of windproof and waterproof ish without being too warm, but so vapour open that I feel noticeably less sweaty and smell a lot less!

I doubt you can keep a down bag dry under a tarp for a few nights of proper rain, but a good tarp pitch, a bivi bag covering the down bag and some care will delay the inevitable. If there's a good chance of weather like that, you'd need a tent (but it will probably still get wet), more creative bivi sites (ie a barn) or a synthetic bag / buffalo bag. A fleece sleeping bag liner used as a cover could help too - but would weigh more than a good synthetic bag.

[I took only a wee water bottle, and filled up more often.]
More hardcore than me!

Must admit I like my little one man tent cos I can put the wet gear in the porch and be fully dry inside the tent.

Not sure how to keep bag etc dry under a tarp when I've been out in the rain for 7 or 8 hours.

TandemJeremy - Member
DJTC - for being in the hills I want 4000ish calories a day - thats a kilo aprrox a day so at least 3 kgs just for food
Sorry - I simply do not buy 4 days food and everything else for 5 kilos.

Map wrapped up in tent and no watch to time your movement - basic safety fail.
POSTED 1 DAY AGO #

charlie the bikemonger - I get you. It's supposed to be able to cope with that stuff, but to be honest, I still try and find the most upstream source I can find and try and stay away from sheep.
But I have definitely filled up downstream of farming areas. In this country you often have little choice.

Spent 3 days camping and walking in Snowdonia for a D of E gold practice and my pack was about 12kg without half a tent or any water, but had a 2kg synthetic sleeping bag and too much food. No particular emphasis on light weight, but seemed reasonable to me. Pack was a Berghaus Bioflex 70+10, purely because that's the only pack I have suitable but it also meant I didn't have to think about how I packed it, which was nice in the rain on Sunday morning. Tent was a Vango Halo 300, which is fairly heavy, but has loads of space even for 3 people and plenty of porch space. Split between 2 of us. Down sleeping bag is 800G, and sorting food properly will sort weight out too.