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I suspect there is no right answer to this, but hell, I'll ask anyway.
I have the option on my new road build to get either Ultegra Di2 or Dura-Ace mechanical for very similar money. So simply, what would you get?
I'd go Dura Ace.
DA for me.
Depends on the bike, but more often than not I think I'd go Di2.
Chorus EPS
DA - just got Ultegra 6800 and it is excellent so would expect DA to be a bit plusher.
SRAM Red
Followed by Campag Record/Chorus
If it had to be shimano, then definitely DA mechanical. I just can't get on with Di2 shifters at all!
I'd go for Di2.
DA mechanical. runs super sweet
Di2. It's amazing.
I'd get 6800 mechanical and spend the difference on wheels/tires or getting a better bike / frame
Only bike, I'd go for mechanical, only because Di2 shifters are fiddly in winter gloves. Race bike, I'd go for mechanical as cheaper to replace and do quick maintenance on (unless money isn't an issue, in which case I'd go di2.) Nice weather fun bike, Di2, it really is very good.
DA looks beautiful and works fantastically well.
Di2 works well, but its so ugly.....and expensive too
I'd get 6800 mechanical and spend the difference on wheels/tires or getting a better bike / frame
Ditto but wheels.
And also I know 6800 mechanical is amazing - so I'd be content not to know what I was missing in DA or di2.
I'd get 6800 mechanical and spend the difference on wheels/tires or getting a better bike / frame
Fair but I'm very happy with the frame/fork and wheels that I have lined up already. I'm not sacrificing those for the groupset at all.
Di2 for me.
DA mechanical for me.
Although the suggestion above to go for 6800 mechanical and spend/save the rest is a good one. I have 9000 and 6800 and the difference certainly isn't 'worth' the money. 6800 is fantastic when you consider the price.
Threads like this would be a lot more interesting, not to mention useful, if people explained how much experience they had with each groupset and then went to to explain why they would choose one over the other.
I recently had the same choice and went with Ultegra Di2. Ive not got the bike yet to comment on whether it was the correct choice or not yet though 😀
Di2 works like magic, got electrics on the road, the tri and the commuting bike. Riding the MTB on conventional gears felt very agricultural yesterday!
Cheers, Rich
i'd go with DA
because I can't be mithered with a battery for gears and I know how to do mechanical, I can do these at the roadside in emergency situations
because it's gonna work so well, 9000 has that reputation and I bet it would last a long time, the kind of groupset that you could donate to another bike
nicer looking and light, yes I'm a bike tart
[I'm not a racer and I've never tried either btw, this is just my call as per the OP]
Threads like this would be a lot more interesting, not to mention useful, if people explained how much experience they had with each groupset and then went to to explain why they would choose one over the other.
I've twiddled with a number of bikes with 9000 mechanical, but limited riding experience. Done a few hundred miles on demo bikes with Ultegra Di2. There is a significant weight penalty with 6870 Di2, but it's just so damn good. I know that 9000 is excellent, and the tactility of the shifters is an interesting point, but I love the functionality of Di2.
because I can't be mithered with a battery for gears and I know how to do mechanical, I can do these at the roadside in emergency situations
You'll spend less time charging than you will adjusting cables. What can you really do if your cable breaks at the roadside?
I went Dura Ace for the best bike. It is wonderful. I crashed on its first outing 😥 . It is likely to be the pinnacle of Shimano manual groupsets. Di2 will trickle down to 105 and maybe lower. But DA9000 is a statement of how good a manual shift can be.
For my race bike, I'll go to 11 speed Ultegra Di2 next year.
I am waiting on a P3 with Di2 to be delivered. If it had been on a road bike I might have gone mech DA instead. But being able to shift from aero bars and base bars made me thing Di2 was worth while on Tri bike.
You'll spend less time charging than you will adjusting cables. What can you really do if your cable breaks at the roadside?
Use your fancy pants phone Google a local bike shop and buy a cable to fix it
That said its a tough choice
Use your fancy pants phone Google a local bike shop and buy a cable to fix it
And if it happens at 7pm on Christmas Eve, and you're 30 miles from home and the wrong side of the South Downs?
I can tell you from bitter experience that you ride home at 20rpm cursing Dura Ace gear cables, which were recalled soon after for the exact failure I experienced!
that's the ticket njee 🙂
One of the things that annoys me with mechanical gears is the inevitable creep away from perfect adjustment, which never seems to be perfectly resolved with a tweek of the barrel adjusters...at least not with me!
So while I'm mentally building my next road bike, I'm err-ing towards Di2 based on reviews and threads like this. I'm no racer, so a bit of weight I can live with and feel at the leaver, while something I can definitely appreciate, comes second to a nice crisp accurate shift in all conditions. I've not seen any reports of users complaining about the battery.
Does the auto-trim stop chain-rub on the front mech when using the extremes of the gear ratios?
Tbh ive been looking at other bikes and have pretty much ignored dura ace equipped ones and gone straight to ultegra d2i models
But DA9000 is a statement of how good a manual shift can be.
Have ridden neither, but when leccy shifting becomes the norm it would be nice to have had the ultimate in mechanical shifting while you could.
Does the auto-trim stop chain-rub on the front mech when using the extremes of the gear ratios?
Yep, always.
One of the things that annoys me with mechanical gears is the inevitable creep away from perfect adjustment, which never seems to be perfectly resolved with a tweek of the barrel adjusters...at least not with me!
I agree, as things get more worn it does all just get a bit sloppier. That said, the elderly Dura Ace on my Madone is still very good, if not quite perfect. Di2 does just stay working fantastically.
I rode the first Di2 at the Shimano press launch - I was there to cover Saint and didn't ride road then so didn't really know what was what. I just remember the auto trimming front mech and hearing it whirr as I changed at the back.
I hate front mechs, even well setup and I'm not a fan of the half click so am strongly considering Di2 just based on auto trim. Silence is so nice. For me the choice is 6800 or splash out on 6870 rather than consider Dura Ace.
Threads like this would be a lot more interesting, not to mention useful, if people explained how much experience they had with each groupset and then went to to explain why they would choose one over the other.
Had two seasons on Ultegra Di2 now and I really do like it, shifting is super slick. As mentioned in another thread, with a close ratio cassette it can actually leave you wondering if you've shifted though as you don't get the same sort of feedback you get with mechanical.
I did have an issue early on where occasionally it would take several stabs at the shifter to shift down the cassette. Weirdly this was fixed at the LBS with a software upgrade. A bit of a negative but since then it's been faultless. Also like the self trimming front mech a lot.
I am waiting on a P3 with Di2 to be delivered. If it had been on a road bike I might have gone mech DA instead. But being able to shift from aero bars and base bars made me thing Di2 was worth while on Tri bike.
I really want Di2 on the TT bike. For me the mechanical shifting always upsets the position a little. Old frame without Di2 routing though... still doable?
Threads like this would be a lot more interesting, not to mention useful, if people explained how much experience they had with each groupset and then went to to explain why they would choose one over the other.
DA 9000 on my best bike which I've been running since Easter last year, previous 'best' bikes had in reverse order: 7900, Red black, 7800, 7700, 7400.
6800 on my winter bike which I've run since 6800 came out, due to it being winter most recently probably a few more miles on that, OH has 6800 on both bikes so I've built three with it.
9000 is the absolute peak of mechanical shifting as already said. It works perfectly, even better than 7800. Front and rear mechs take two minutes to set up and stay perfect up until the point you change cables (All DA has been like this since 7400 came out), 6800 takes a little fettle now and then to keep it running sweetly.
9000 brakes have slightly more modulation and the levers have a slightly smoother feel to them underneath the hood (difficult to explain exactly where). DA is obviously a touch lighter. Is it worth the extra money? Probably not, no. Nice to have it? Absolutely.
But, 6800 is also better than 7800 in terms of shift quality and feel and probably gives you 95% of DA 9000 for 50% of the cost. The 6800 brakes are actually nicer to use in bad weather (again, hard to explain but I know what I mean 🙂 )
Lots of experience on both Di2 Ultegra and DA 9000. Worth keeping in mind that the new Ui2 is much neater and smaller than the previous 10 speed stuff. Mech's are (IMO) much nicer to look at and lighter to boot. I also think the levers are a nicer shape than the mechanical ones, just feel more compact.
In use, once you get used to the feel of Di2 I think its actually better. I still have a bit of mechanical sympathy when it comes to non-di2 stuff, ease off the pedals a bit and so on even though I'm not sure its necessary. With the Di2 stuff, literally just hit the button and keep the power on. As I said, you could probably do this just as much on DA but to me it just feels a bit wrong. I've not found winter gloves to cause issues, but I use a pair of quite thin Castelli ones, maybe with the lobster type mitts it's more of an issue?
Reliability wise, I've had the Di2 stuff on my winter bike for about 5k miles now and I've not touched it, and its only needed charging once. Definitely a convert, given a choice I'd go electric every time.
maybe with the lobster type mitts it's more of an issue?
Yup, wool liners and lobster outers. Makes it all a bit vague and a bit too easy to shift in the wrong direction.
To be fair to Nick, Shimano updated their shifters from 9000 to 9001 because of unacceptable cable breakages. The shifting pulled the end off the cable inside the shifter. Now corrected, but no recall. I'd just select a middle gear on the limit screw and ride singlespeed, personally.
But manual won't get better than DA9000. Di2 will be mass market in a few years.
I'm going back years on some 7800 shifters, but that's exactly what happened - nipple pulled off the end of the cable. Would've been about 2007 at a guess.
Yup, wool liners and lobster outers. Makes it all a bit vague and a bit too easy to shift in the wrong direction.
That I can understand, you have to be quite precise with the Di2 stuff, especially if you have the auto shift stuff set up and it'll skip up the block when you accidentally push and hold the button.
I do like riding in the wet knowing that it'll work just as well the next time out. I went out for a big ride last Friday, rain was biblical and come Saturday morning shifting was still perfect.
Interesting reading here. The build I have in mind will for my "best" bike, it'll get very little wet weather usage and will be used for everything from sportives to long distances rides to the occasional fair weather commute and maybe the odd race too.
My instinct at the moment is Dura-Ace but that maybe because that is what I have drooled over for a long, long time rather than any particular functional change.
My best bike satisfies those criteria and I've not beed disappointed with my choice of DA. But for racing, it will be ultegra.
mechanical is nice, I don't think you'd be disappointed, but di2 is nicer