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Is the problem (not that I think it's a problem, I think this is interesting in a way that other WC's or flat TdF stages aren't) that there is such a big field and TBH some of the team riders are not of the same capability as the top guys - those from the smaller nations, etc. Consequently there are splits likely to happen, as a result you have to be at the front to not get stuck behind one and hence it's racing from as soon as they hit the Glasgow circuit.
I'm lovin' it.
that depends if your belief is that cyclings an individual sport or the team sport that it is.
Fair point, but it's still won by an individual. Sagan won it 3x in a row without a strong team.
I suspect that it will calm down once there's been a selection, and then race again for the last 2-3 laps.
he's a canny ol' racer Pog! made the front group and not once seen the wind 😀
as i type he just does the shortest turn on the front. 🙂 I think the rest of them noticed him loitering 🙂
This is brutal, not sure anyone will be able to get away.
rain !!!! this is going to get more mental!
Given central Glasgow is (mainly) built on a grid system and there is a motorway box around the centre meaning its difficult to close off roads outside of that box as well as loads of small hills in and around the centre its always going to be a course like this unless you either close off the whole city centre or just have an out and back into the suburbs. Thats my guess of why the course is like it is. Geographic and political constraints
This is brutal, not sure anyone will be able to get away.
you timed that perfectly!
As Bettiol goes 😀😀😀
That climb up Kelvingrove park is a belter, used to do it 39x16 back in uni days.
Standing next to the course it's tight but from my utterly clueless perspective not impossible to pass on the straights. Support cars are ****ing mental though, some of the drivers really need to calm down.
for a 'shit course' it's created a brilliant race between the best riders in the world.
drama! There's no radio but will his team car get that message and would they have a spare shoe in any case, or in the pit?
[edit, he's pulled the flappy bit off]
Just got back from the watching in the city center, I thought I'd take a quick run in on my bike, that was a mistake, could barely move and couldn't really see anything.
Beast mode engaged!
how far are they riding - it's saturated one moment and three corners later dry as a bone and sun's out.
It's almost like the magic tunnel under the Thames on Zwift, porting to a totally different place!
Support cars are **** mental though, some of the drivers really need to calm down.
I was out photographing the race at the right turn from Lennoxtown over to Torrance - probably more luck than judgement that there wasn’t a collision as the cars and bikes took the corner, in some cases undercutting each other. Those KIA’s squeal a bit when they’re cornered 🤪
Few miles across at most
@ditchjockey yeah we were standing at the corner or West Regent Street and West Nile Street and one driver looked quite sketchy. Glad we were on the inside!
On what was essentially a 14km crit course for the last 140-150km would they have been better banning cars static neutral service every x hundred meters and if you take a bike you can swap back at the pits?
Would take a bit of organising but would have got shot of a load of cars.
That race was outstanding entertainment.
Brilliant, wasn't it. I wouldn't like the same course type every year, you want to also let sprinters have a go too, but that had me watching a lot of it - in the past it has been watching the start, then do something else for 5 hours, then come back to watch the racing.
would they have been better banning cars static neutral service every x hundred meters.
Kind of - but every few hundred metres would have been 6 corners which on a flat tyre and in the wet would have been like wacky races!
My wife has zero interest in cycling. She watched the last 100km and loved every minute of it.*
*she pointed out that she liked wout van aert the most and would watch him all day long…
Brilliant race. The French can have some climbs next year, if it makes them happy.
<p>Went with my 5yo. Saw a few different bits of the course, ate 10000928281929 sweets and cheered matteiu over the finish line. Well, the boy did, sat on my shoulders all I could see was a Norwegian flag hat.</p><p>Absolutely incredible day out. </p>
Superb race for cyclocross fans, both from the course and the protagonists. They should do big road races on courses like these more often. Maybe throw in a sandpit and some jumps too 😀
Wout will be properly pissed MVDP has completely overshadowed him this season. XC race next weekend will be interesting. Despite Pidcock riding in it I kinda hope MVDP takes it. Would be an awesome achievement to hold the CX, XC and road world titles at once.
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I saw one of the races in Byres Road yesterday by chance when I nipped in on the bike for a bit of shopping. Some of the tail enders were getting given very little room by the support cars.
i love mvdp
Deservedly popular winner, especially after the whole saga in Australia last year where he kept getting woken up by teenage girls knocking on his hotel door so he yelled at them then they reported him for assault, he got zero sleep and pulled out of the race after about 50km. ☹️
Cracking race in the men's pursuit final just gone - Ganna Vs Bigham. Well worth watching if you missed it.
Cracking race in the men’s pursuit final just gone – Ganna Vs Bigham. Well worth watching if you missed it.
Yep, absolutely insane. Incredible rides from both of them.
Cracking race in the men’s pursuit final just gone – Ganna Vs Bigham. Well worth watching if you missed it.
So Dan works for team IG as the aerodynamics specialist. He must know all of Ganna's figures. An even stranger dynamic than the usual team versus country.
Pretty much the 3 best riders in the race taking the podium. the pog is amazing, but mvdp is an absolute beast and deserves to be champ no doubt
@crazy-legs at the wheel?[url= https://i.ibb.co/F4qgjdt/IMG-9679.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.ibb.co/F4qgjdt/IMG-9679.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
It was a great day out in Glasgow and superb result.
The rain added some drama and it wouldn’t have been a Glasgow race without it. Fantastic event. Superb for Scotland.
Road race then evening in velodrome for us. The ganna vs bigham was some race and plenty confused looks in arena me included as we’d all thought GB had it and took some figuring out why the other guy was celebrating.
she pointed out that she liked wout van aert the most and would watch him all day long…
Wish her luck, it's a frustrating business being a WvA fan! He can be an amazing rider in so many ways but just seems to freeze up at the pointy end of big races and try to react as things happen. Perhaps that's all you can do against talents like MvdP and Pogacar where attacking them is just like poking a bear.
But then you could look at days in yellow/green jerseys and realise he's not a 1 day specialist any more, perhaps just doesn't have that explosive power required to make gaps.
Have to say I didn't really enjoy watching that course, I think the weather/surface/corners made it feel too tentative, and unlike the cobbled classics/European roads, just watching them rattle over Glaswegian city centre manholes and road markings did NOT make me want to jump on my bike and go ride the same course, whereas I can watch people crossing the line at Paris-Roubaix bloodied and muddied and wish I could have been there riding the same roads.
i think Wout spends too much form peaking for le tour where he is riding for others.
MVdP on the other hand peaks for the classics, clearly just rode round le tour to make sponsors happy and has used ito t peak for the World's. I expect Wout is paid more to ride for Jumbo but MVdP staying at smaller teams gives him more freedom
We were at the first corner as they turned into Bearsden. Camera pans over the crowd "Huge crowds as the riders come into Glasgow" and a "Wow" from Boardman. Great to see the riders come past
I filmed the breakaway and then decided I should experience the bunch not through a phone screen. As expected it all happened so quick, you could focus on a couple of riders and then it was gone!
Got two days of working at the events so hoping to see some bits and pieces. Only downside is the closed roads in the city centre have made my cycle commute a little more frenetic.
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Bike changes, wheel changes, mechanicals on the left side of the road in the UK.
Bike changes, wheel changes, mechanicals on the right the rest of the world.
MVdP on the other hand peaks for the classics, clearly just rode round le tour to make sponsors happy
Apart from the minor blips when he led Jasper Philipsen out for four stage wins and the green jersey you mean? Sure he wasn't riding for stage wins himself, but I'm not sure he 'just rode round le tour to make sponsors happy'.
One of Britains finest road riders, Ian Steel, would have trained on some of these roads.
But there were tram lines, in Glasgow, to deal with in his day.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/ian-steel-cyclist-who-broke-new-ground-for-british-racing-by-winning-the-gruelling-peace-race-in-eastern-europe-a6716906.html
Apart from the minor blips when he led Jasper Philipsen out for four stage wins and the green jersey you mean?
Fair point, but I do think he was holding back a bit at the Tour to keep his powder dry. Sure his leadouts were impressive, but a typical MvdP race-winning move usually involve insanely violent efforts that are prob quite hard to recover from in the time frame. I think the Tour for him was more of a very hard training camp than a race.
Bike changes, wheel changes, mechanicals on the left side of the road in the UK.
Bike changes, wheel changes, mechanicals on the right the rest of the world.
If they stopped on the left the mechanics would be opening their doors into the riders. I don't think Honer grapes that in the UK the steering wheel is on the other side!!
Apart from the minor blips when he led Jasper Philipsen out for four stage wins and the green jersey you mean? Sure he wasn’t riding for stage wins himself, but I’m not sure he ‘just rode round le tour to make sponsors happy’.
Compared to what he is capable of it wasn't a lot of effort, he was clearly keeping his powder dry/using it as training.
Not sure we'll see him do the MTB now which will please Pidcock!
Wish her luck, it’s a frustrating business being a WvA fan! He can be an amazing rider in so many ways but just seems to freeze up at the pointy end of big races and try to react as things happen
She is not that interested in his results, mainly just the aesthetics.
anagallis_arvensis
Full Member
Not sure we’ll see him do the MTB now which will please Pidcock!
Is that you're theory, or coming from somewhere else? I could imagine him now being fully motivated for the XC now. CX, road and XC titles all being held at the same time? That's got to be some motivation
Is that you’re theory
Theory, he looked pretty banged up after that crash.
I think the fact that road racers can rock up and win MTB events is something that makes it difficult for me to get too into it.
The knowledge that there are a load of riders out there who could beat the best XC MTBers in the world but just don't because it might disrupt their day job makes me think XC has to do more to distance itself from road racing.
As far as I know there aren't any road racers who could turn up in the start hut and win a round of the DH or Enduro.
VdP and Pidcock aren't 'road racers' though - they're top level all-round cyclists who can ride anything. Both have ridden road and offroad since forever. It's only really those two who are capable of doing this, there aren't a load of WorldTour road riders who can drop into MTB and win at will.
If anything it's exactly the other way - there are a few riders who grew up racing offroad (MTB or CX) and have succesfully transferred to road racing (mvdp, picodcock, van art, sagan to name a few of the current peloton) but going the other way is very hard, if you're only used to riding road you don't seem to have the balance to handle the terrain off road
https://youtube.com/live/Kpzo8WYxVcs?feature=share7
Age group BMX racing on now.
Some of the skills and speed is unbelievable.
Elites next weekend
What a fantastic day yesterday. I spent the entire time in George Square. The atmosphere was brilliant when the riders arrived at the city. Anyone know who the Scottish guy was that was on MC duties? He was really good.
Re. the support cars, I watched the riders descend down North Hanover St and turn right into George Sq. This was also where the organisers decided to have the "pits" for the support cars, which was an absolutely daft spot. You had cars and vans flying down the hill, some marshall would signal one to pull into the pits, causing the cars behind to have to slam on their brakes or swerve, which was often causing the riders to have to break or slow down. There were several near misses for cars and riders at that spot.
The knowledge that there are a load of riders out there who could beat the best XC MTBers in the world but just don’t because it might disrupt their day job makes me think XC has to do more to distance itself from road racing.
Have you seen modern day XC courses? The olympics couse had a 6ft drop on it. You can't just rock up from the road and ride these courses unless you're also an elite level MTBer.
I doubt anyone would say VdP, Piddock, WvA, or Sagan were mountain bikers.
Ask pretty much anyone and they would say they were road racers who sometimes race MTB when it doesn't interfere too much with their main focus.
And like I said, I can't think of any examples of pro-road racers who even compete in DH or Enduro, let alone be in with a chance of winning (except for the woman who started on the road then tried XC, then Enduro, and is now doing DH but her name escapes me).
I just feel that enduro and DH are mountain biking while XC is far closer to road racing.
The olympics couse had a 6ft drop on it
With no landing ramp 😱😱😱
Ask pretty much anyone and they would say they were road racers who sometimes race MTB when it doesn’t interfere too much with their main focus
Pretty much everyone would be wrong then Wout, MVdP and Pidcock are crossers who have taken to road racing. I have never seen Wout race mtb. The other two are most definitely bike racers.
I doubt anyone would say VdP, Piddock, WvA, or Sagan were mountain bikers.
Well I would wager they are far better mountain bikers than 99.9% of the 'mountain bikers' on here 😀.
Seriously though, I don't know why you're trying to belittle XC. Anyone who can ride those XC courses at those speeds both uphill and downhill deserves huge kudos. It's pretty silly to describe Pidcock et al as not being mountain bikers. The only reason they race road more is because they can earn millions from it. There's a reason that so few riders can win at road, cx and XC, it's because it's extremely bloody difficult.
I just feel that enduro and DH are mountain biking while XC is far closer to road racing.
Or you could argue that Enduro and DH are simple time trials which don't require the skill to ride in a group competing with other racers on the same terrain with all the extra dangers and skills that requires. 🤷♂️
Didn't listen to the tdf coverage when they interviewed tom pidcococks parents then?
They took him to Framce mtbing for around 10 years, one reason he descended so well last year was he knew the road.
I doubt anyone would say VdP, Piddock, WvA, or Sagan were mountain bikers.
I call Troll....
Wasn't Segan junior XC champion?
Seriously though, I don’t know why you’re trying to belittle XC.
I'm not. I said I struggle to get invested in it and I'm not even sure it's really mountain biking. More like extreme cyclocross.
You made the point of the 6ft drop. I agree that XC racers are better mountain bikers than 99.9% on here. However, most people on here could manage that drop and could manage to ride most if not all the features on pretty much all the XC courses at speed.
Therefore, a professional athlete shouldn't have any problems developing the skills to tackle an XC course because the skill levels needed to get round the course aren't that high, given that your average middle aged hobbyist can manage it.
And because XC races are won on the climbs (they can be lost on the descents but they can't be won on the descents) being able to simply make it round the course is enough from a technical skills point of view. Then it just comes down to how much power you can put out and pro-road racers will beat almost anyone else at doing that 99% of the time.
Wasn’t Segan junior XC champion?
Yes, he was. And if I go to his wiki page it says:
Peter Sagan (Slovak pronunciation: [ˈpeter ˈsaɡan]; born 26 January 1990) is a Slovak professional road bicycle racer who currently rides for UCI ProTeam Team TotalEnergies.[8]
I haven't checked but does anyone want to guess what the first line of Piddock's and VdP's wiki pages say?
I'm not saying they aren't mountain bikers. However, the fact they are mountain bikers is very much a secondary consideration.
I agree that XC racers are better mountain bikers than 99.9% on here. However, most people on here could manage that drop and could manage to ride most if not all the features on pretty much all the XC courses at speed.
No, most people on here could not ride those courses at anywhere near the speed that Pidcock et al do. It's a ridiculous comparison.
Therefore, a professional athlete shouldn’t have any problems developing the skills to tackle an XC course because the skill levels needed to get round the course aren’t that high, given that your average middle aged hobbyist can manage it.
Are you seriously comparing the skills of a middle aged hobbyist to Pidcock and MVdP? 😂
Wasn’t Segan junior XC champion?
Pretty sure all those guys transitioned to the road from xc/cx because that's where the money was. Sagan in particular always talked about his preference for MTB.
I’m not even sure it’s really mountain biking
Mountain biking is of course different things to different people but I can't help but think this is a ridiculous comment to make. You're talking about races over fairly typical mountain biking terrain. The worlds are being hosted at one of the UK’s most well known trail centres. To claim a bike race is not mountain biking because it primarily comes down to fitness, is absurd.
However, most people on here could manage that drop
Er...no.
I haven’t checked but does anyone want to guess what the first line of Piddock’s and VdP’s wiki pages say?
First port of call for accurate information 😀😀😀u
but seeing as you asked
Thomas Pidcock MBE (born 30 July 1999) is a British cyclist who currently competes in the cyclo-cross, mountain bike and road bicycle racing disciplines of the sport for
Mathieu van der Poel (born 19 January 1995) is a Dutch professional cyclist who rides for the UCI WorldTeam Alpecin–Deceuninck.[4] He competes in the cyclo-cross, mountain bike racing, gravel cycling, and road bicycle racing disciplines of the sport
More like extreme cyclocross.....However, most people on here could manage that drop and could manage to ride most if not all the features on pretty much all the XC courses at speed.
Totally disagree, I'd consider myself reasonably competent and several of the Hadleigh A line features were beyond my capability full stop, let alone with my lungs hanging out.
I'm sure STW has access - can we have a feature on BruceWee and a few of the STW big hitters taking on the XC course at speed.
However, most people on here could manage that drop and could manage to ride most if not all the features on pretty much all the XC courses at speed.
Not to burst your balloon but no, most people couldn't. That's why they build XC courses specially (with the desired technical features) and then they take out the dangerous/mandatory bits before allowing the public on it!
Happened at Hadleigh Park after the Olympics; the course needed significant sanitisation before it was safe to be used by regular riders.
Anyway, here's the MTBer winning a road race... 😉
https://twitter.com/UCI_cycling/status/1688218862087778306?t=oEUc9lLwfQdM3cBa-Viv_A&s=19
Right BruceWee. When the UCI champs are over next week, I want to see you going out on the XC course and you to show us the KOM’s you’ve scalped off the pro guys.
She is not that interested in his results, mainly just the aesthetics.
🙂
Mrs TJ was avidly glued to the TV for the TDF for the same reason
Sagan in particular always talked about his preference for MTB.
I remember watching a promo video for the Specialized Diverge that featured Sagan - he was chucking it around like it was a proper MTB. Likewise someone shared a video on here of someone struggling to keep up with Nino Schurter down an alpine trail, even though he was on an Enduro sled. I can't remember the name of the 'chase' rider, but the consensus was that he was no slouch on a bike himself.
Skill level amongst the women is pretty high as well - Jolanda Neff's 'save' on that big drop after Pauline Ferrand Prevot's dick move to brake check her. Neff had to go off-piste and made it look effortless. The skill level in XC racing has improved massively since the 90s.
Sagan is retiring from road riding specificially so he can train for and race the olympics MTB
Are you seriously comparing the skills of a middle aged hobbyist to Pidcock and MVdP? 😂
Nope, I'm saying that, for a professional athlete, gaining enough competence to be able to do the downhills on an XC course should not be an issue.
Therefore, the limiting factor in XC racing is never going to be technical proficiency. It's going to be how many watts you can put out on the climbs.
Anyway, perhaps I've overestimated the general skill level of STW. I'm not a riding god by any means (and jumps and drops have always been a particular weakness of mine) but are you guys sure you still ride mountain bikes?
Mountain biking is of course different things to different people but I can’t help but think this is a ridiculous comment to make
It could well be.
When I focus on improving my mountain biking, it's always with a view to the downhills. Most technique tutorials you'll find will be to do with riding the downhills.
Even getting fitter and improving at going uphill is done with a view to having more energy for the downhills.
I appreciate that mountain biking means different things to different people, but for me the essence is going fast downhill. With XC the focus is always going to be the uphill bit and that's why I struggle to get too excited about it.
Frankly, the uphills in road racing are far more exciting than in XC racing.
Likewise someone shared a video on here of someone struggling to keep up with Nino Schurter down an alpine trail, even though he was on an Enduro sled. I can’t remember the name of the ‘chase’ rider, but the consensus was that he was no slouch on a bike himself.
I remember the video but also not the details. As you say though, the rider/video guy was an acknowledged "good rider", not some random YouTuber looking for 5 mins of fame. He was on his limit to hold on to NS wheel.
Anyway, back to reality after Bruce's delusions, if MVdP wins the XC after winning the CX and road world chamionships that's got to be one of the greatest sporting achievements in history. The Grand Slam of cycling no less. Not that it will get much coverage in the news. 🙄
Anyway, back to reality after Bruce’s delusions, if MVdP wins the XC after winning the CX and road world chamionships that’s got to be one of the greatest sporting achievements in history.
+1.
Much as I really want Pidcock to win, if MvdP got it, it would be an incredible feat.
I'm wondering how much the RR will have taken out of him, if Pidcock's decision to miss the RR in favour of the MTB will give him an advantage...?
I remember the video but also not the details. As you say though, the rider/video guy was an acknowledged “good rider”, not some random YouTuber looking for 5 mins of fame. He was on his limit to hold on to NS wheel.
If it's the one I'm thinking of, it was Claudio Callori
As you say though, the rider/video guy was an acknowledged “good rider”, not some random YouTuber looking for 5 mins of fame.
I think it was Claudio Caluori?
Edit : What ^^he^^ said!
Nope, I’m saying that, for a professional athlete, gaining enough competence to be able to do the downhills on an XC course should not be an issue.
Well sorry, you're just wrong. As evidenced by the complete absence of elite XC riders who have moved over from the road. Riding in those races is a skill that can only be learned by a lifetime of experience and competition at the highest levels. It really isn't just about power and fitness.
BruceWee, have you ridden an XC course in the last fifteen years? There are races I do where, as a rider who rides the Tweed Valley DH and Enduro trails regularly in addition to big mountain riding, not much of the field can clear the course. Take an event like Ten Under the Ben, or Ten at Kirroughtree, that I've done this year, or the SXC rounds they do at Aberfoyle. There are people doing these on enduro bikes and not clearing the whole thing. My race bike only has 10mm less travel front and rear than my big bike.
The Marathon course included trails used in the Scottish Enduro Series. That's exactly the mountain biking you describe.
Anyway, I loved the road race. I was sceptical about the course but it was exciting to spectate (you saw the riders loads), and the racing was hectic. And I think the result suggests it was a tough enough course- Van der Poel, Van Aert, Pedersen and Pogacar are definitely four of the best in the world. We were on Scott Street and got to see Pogacar and VdP attacking. The atmosphere was great. There was plenty of drama - we had to catch a train so after the penultimate lap we were walking past a pub with loads of middle aged lads outside and there was a roar. We assumed it was football but looked in just in case and everyone had just yelled for Van der Poel's crash!
The protest didn't bother us at all - at that time, the sun was out, the atmosphere was good and I agreed with the point they were making. No one seemed that arsed around us.
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Indeed, yesterday was epic.
Over the Crow in the morning to watch the bunch cruise up a road I ride several times a week, then into town to enjoy the Big Crit. Atmosphere was phenomenal, the footage on the big screens dotted around made the city look amazing and we got to watch the selectest of select groups duke it out on our city streets. The sheer hard-bastardness of MvdP try and take the side door into O'Neills, jump back up and on it and go and put another minute into the other three was ridiculous.
One of my favourite things though was the Vatican City rider who was riding a Dogma(!) yet not wearing the most overtly religious kit. Out-done by the Anguilla(?) guy!