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Looks like whoever has access to the Ubyk Ltd Trustpilot account is reporting all negative reviews to try and get them removed. My favourite – a customer who dropped his bike in for service and it’s now gone AWOL in the shutdown. Ubyk Ltd have reported the review and posted a comment “this is not a review”. Genius. Yes – it absolutely is a review. Give the guy his bike back.
I think the report refers to the bit underneath that, which is blurred out, and presumably a bit of pure abuse justifiably aimed at the company. I think the new owner will need to do a bit more in terms of reputation management...
Missing bike bloke should report it as a theft to the police. Because it is a theft. I wonder if the liquidators have tried to sell it on Ebay yet?
Reading the TP reviews and the bit about the person that after ordering their bike went in to the store to enquire about it and was told "the bike was a special order and being built up at Santa Cruz". Would the staff have known it hadn't been ordered?
wow this is awful. customer bikes disappearing whilst in for a service is really bad very unlikely they paid up front with a credit card, so no claiming back of your cc. they are properly out of pocket.
reporting as theft is one thing but you won't be getting your bike back for some time if ever
Would the staff have known it hadn’t been ordered?
I suspect the staff were a little more aware than they are trying to make out. If you are passing all these lies along innocently they must have had their eyes closed for ages.
And the missing bike in for service? What reason could be given for that being spirited away that wouldn't have a strong smell of fish?
I suspect this has been obvious for weeks; but now they can blame the top dog and look all cherubic.
I find it hard to believe that the staff wouldn’t have known that this persons bike wasn’t even on order. Hopefully one of the staff that has already commented on this thread can prove me wrong.
I suspect this has been obvious for weeks
It was being sold as an insolvent business 3 months ago. If the senior staff at least hadn't worked out what that meant then it's clear they were part of the problem - expecting to trade their way out of significant debt was unlikely to happen and a new owner cutting off any existing obligations/debt was the only likely outcome of a sale.
It was being sold as an insolvent business 3 months ago
If your'e a random pushbike tech/sales why or how would you know this ?
weeksy - people were posting it on here, the bike industry is small enough that stw wasn't the only place it was being discussed. I also made the point that senior staff should have understood what the implications of that was - not all staff.
I can't believe that Richard that I spoke to at around 5 o'clock didn't know they would be shut up the very next day.
Still didn't stop him from lying to me though.
As sales manager how could he not know.
Aren't people confusing things here? Wasnt being sold as insolvent, business and stock was up for sale wasnt it? I mean, that is a big warning sign, but it wasnt officially insolvent at that time as far as I can tell (not an insolvency practitioner etc.).
If the person's bike in for a service has some sort of label system, think that property will be returned to them:
Assets include property, vehicles, machinery, stock and even the fixtures and fittings of the business premises. Only goods owned by your company can be sold as part of this process, so this means any vehicles or machinery you have on hire purchase, or any heavily mortgaged property will be excluded. Instead, any hired or leased goods will be returned to the leasing company, and the mortgage company repaid through the sale of the property. There is often not enough money to go around in which to pay every creditor in full; therefore some unfortunately miss out.
Insolvency practioner, once appointed will verify what is there's and what isn't.
No liquidation reports on gov.uk (Companies House) website.
I also made the point that senior staff should have understood what the implications of that was – not all staff
Aye, i'd go along with that, the senior staff should/would know. But not the guy who was posting on here the other day... (maybe)
The guy who had the Santa Cruz issue, the bosses may have said "It's ok, we've sorted, tell him to wait...."
Maybe i'm being daft, but i try to see the good rather than the bad in people.
ive had a hate to say I told you so moment (in my head) reading this thread - I saw the post Njee posted about it being up for sale......my immediate thought and pessimist in me was that the sale was just a way of generating as much money as possible before closing down to line there own pockets/clear debts
im absoutly gutted for anyone who has been done by this, but the alarm bells were ringing if you knew about the insolvency/for sale thread prior, just goes to show how much people are willing to risk for a 'bargain' even knowing a business is in deep shit
not that my thoughts count nor helpful, but I came close to buying something quite expensive I wouldn't have got 20% off elsewhere, but I had a feeling it was not right....glad I stuck to my guns
the previous owners are pure and simple scum, they absolutely knew the outcome and still lied and took peoples money, right before xmas, right up until the day of closure
feel a little sorry for the new owner, and fair play coming on here to state whats happened and trying to help where possible, but that name UBYK is defunct, no sod in there right mind will buy anything off them knowing what has gone on before, and although the guy may have bought it legitimately I cant see what on earth he thought it would gain by keeping the name....deluded, or from what you read between the lines, shafted as well...
either way disgusting by the previous owners, hope everyone gets sorted out
Would the MD/Owner actually be able to remove that money though ?
Various ways but a lot of it would rely on getting the cash into the accounts in time, for services like paypal the money should still be with them until goods are delivered. Card transactions would be in much quicker and you could be repaying directors loans etc. or bonus/salary/backpay though it could just be one push to get past the final big bill that kills it.
as coomber says, a quick(ish) look through companies house records dont indicate any insolvency action. What is apparent from documentation is that sometime in 2011, two chaps called Ollie Wells and James Heath created Rokcruz Ltd. Later that year Ollie Wells resigned his directorship from Rokcruz. Later again that year Rokcruz changed name to Ubyk Ltd.
So far so unremarkable. A new venture, settling on a trading name, harmonising the Company and trading name etc.
In 2013 Neil Coventry joined the Co as a director and lent it upto £150k for a major minority shareholding
2015 Ubyk arranged bank funding from HSBC (normal overdraft/revolver kind of thing I expect, with a floating charge and negative pledge)
in 2017, that Charge was withdrawn. Now it's possible that Ubyk breached its banking covenants and the bank called in its overdraft or Ubyk just decided to move on from HSBC. However, around about the same time, a new loan of up to £421k was made into the company, probably repaying all outstanding facilities from HSBC, from.... Mr Ollie Wells! At about the same time, 59/259 new shares were issued to Mr Wells (the original 200 split 100:100 between Heath and Coventry, the owners) and he once again became a Director of the company, 6 years since his last role.
Frustratingly, Oliver Wells entry as a director has his names "mistyped" in the wrong order (Wells Reginald OLIVER) so it doesn't show all other entities with which he's involved under the name Oliver Reginald WELLS (and they all seem to be LLPs investing in various fixed assets). And these two are indeed the same chap as birth months are the same and OLIVER WELLS ADVISERS LIMITED (his company) has the same address as the the Oliver Wells named in the charge over the £421k loan made in 2017.
It's unclear just why Mr Wells would lend £421k into a bike shop with only £600k of gross tangible assets at the last 2017 a/c unless there's a deeper relationship between the parties than the paperwork makes out, over and above the fact that Mr Wells was there at the beginning in 2011 and is there again now.
My very-much finger in the air guess is that they are possibly related, and Mr Wells has come to the aid of Mr Heath last year when the bank started being obstreperous.
I can’t believe that Richard that I spoke to at around 5 o’clock didn’t know they would be shut up the very next day.
When Alpine Bikes closed one of their Glasgow stores the staff didn’t know until they turned up in the morning and found the door locked. It does happen
There is no way that a number of people during that last week were not fully aware they were taking money for goods they had no intention of supplying, how far down that tree that extended is conjecture but a member of staff who tells a customer they have checked with a supplier and X is happening was either merely lying about contacting the supplier or was complicit.
The sales brochure states that administrators were pending appointment, do we know if that ever happened, was it in formal administration, formally liquidated or just an obtuse sale of all assets (including the brand) but no liabilities from a still nominally healthy trading entity to another? Which in an of itself stinks.
Well the refund that was issued on the 12th last Wednesday didn't go through, looks like after calls to paypal they are going to sort the money for me.. again I wonder how many more are in this boat ..
They bought the lease, or something off of the bike shop that used to be in the same location as their Brighton premises around 2015.
Bloke on our local FB group today managed to recover his bike that was in the Brighton store for maintenance when they shut up shop so things seem to be moving a bit.
There were only 4 guys working in the Ubyk Oxford store and they didn’t know what was happening until it happened. So much so that the member of staff that posted on here has had to contact the landlord in order to get his own bike back!
You may think that they should have known, but James is a liar and had been telling everyone that he was sorting everything out. It has been a bumpy road for Ubyk for the last year or so and so delays paying distributors and getting stock in were normal.
As has already been said, James is now in Poland and has changed his mobile and hidden his social media.
I used to work in the store.
James sounds lovely 🙁
Sounds like a weapons grade C*** to me!!
I still find it hard to believe that no one in the store knew anything. Who was dealing with shipping?
Didn't it seem strange that there were so many orders coming in and nothing going out and many emails & phone calls from unhappy customers?
Was Richard Moir dealing with all the complaints/queries? If so, he must've know what was going on..
It has been a bumpy road for Ubyk for the last year or so and so delays paying distributors and getting stock in were normal.
Interesting..... I wonder if that's what caused all the delays in various One Up products (including my EDC) earlier this year, rather than delays at One Up and then a hurricane?!? Saw the old email chain earlier, guess what, payment was taken before stock then. And a bonus prize to anyone who can guess the name of the person serving me the excuses..... 😉
I nearly fought for a refund at the time but as I was travelling a lot with work, couldn't be arsed.
Hindsight is perfect vision, as they say - definitely now makes more sense in the light of what we now know.
It has been a bumpy road for Ubyk for the last year or so and so delays paying distributors and getting stock in were normal.
And that will also be normal operating procedure for a lot of companies, with many being able to trade out of it so long as nothing goes wrong.
If so, he must’ve know what was going on..
He certainly new enough to lie on multiple occasions about the "backlog" being down to Hope.
Of course the stuff didn't turn up as it hadn't been ordered.
I'm sure as manager he'd have know full well it hadn't been ordered.
Still waiting to hear back from the new owner on how he's going to help us all out too.
I believe some people have heard back from the new owner about Santa Cruz orders, but I dint know anyone who has heard back about a hope order.
Perhaps the new owner is looking to salvage what sales he can and as others have suggested, there was no margin on hope at those prices.
As for Richard knowing, if he didn't, he should have. If fraudulent trading is proven, managers as well as directors can be personally liable for the debt.
As for Richard knowing, if he didn’t, he should have. If fraudulent trading is proven, managers as well as directors can be personally liable for the debt.
Hopefully he's been alerted to this thread and is feeling a bit jittery. I know he joined his boss/mate in hiding all his social channels.....
I’m sure as manager he’d have know full well it hadn’t been ordered.
I dunno. It could have been centralised so they didnt know and werent lying aside from maybe blaming Hope when they were waiting for a response from their central team.
I would be suspicious but wouldnt be certain.
It could have been centralised so they didnt know and werent lying aside from maybe blaming Hope when they were waiting for a response from their central team.
Avid road cyclist Richard Moir ('magic Moir') manages the web sales & dispatch team
I think it's fair to say he knew...
What a frigging mess. Hopefully people will get their cash back but it still stinks that they’re in this situation.
I’ve used them once before and the stuff turned up no problem, the second time I tried to use them the product I ordered wasn’t in stock. In the end I ended up cancelling the order and getting my cash back. After that, like Tredz they were on the ‘no tah’ list.
If I were the new owner, I’d be binning the name off because it’s now trashed.
I’d be ditching the name if were the new owner; too many consumers have been burned so it’s trashed really.
Finally some sort of closure for me Paypal (after an hour on the phone ) refunded the money back into my account at lunch. I know others are still fighting for their losses, but to say Richard didnt know what was going on.. I have to call horse shit on that, the tone on the phone the lies and false promises all struck me of someone who knew full well what was happening. Given time im sure these two( Richard and James ) will surface and kalma will get its just rewards.
Best of luck and fingers crossed to those still owed money I hope you get it sorted soon.
Just out of interest, where does the PP refund come from? Assuming they've cleared out their accounts or been frozen etc. Who foots the bill? PayPal?
Stevedoc, some more details on that refund if you could. I've got £270 that I hop PayPal will refund but they seem to be playing a waiting game.
Paypal charge higher fees to the company using them than debit cards, which enables them to offer greater buyer protection. In this case they would have to stump up the cash.
JP
Onzadog ... I played blue murder with the Oxford store on the wednesday before they folded and was issued an Echeque refund which bounced today when it should have cleared. Id ring paypaland once you've "asked to speak to an advisor " 5 times to the god awful automated service ask to be put through to the refunds claims department and explain the UBYKs debacle and ask them to cross reference any other issues with the seller and explain the money was taken illegally, oh and lay it on thick.. as Paypal told me they can issue a refund with in 24-48 hours and as (insert any name you want to describe these dodgy dealers ) have gone to the wall they will side in your favour asap 🙂
I think it’s fair to say he knew…
Again I am not sure. Job titles can be exaggerated. So would tend towards if I had any personal dealings with him wanting a good explanation but stopping short of a witch hunt.
I’d be ditching the name if were the new owner
I would love to see the contract for selling it and how much was attributed to "goodwill". Unless its around - several million I reckon it might need writing off.
Just a reminder, if you've had a order open with Ubyk Limited, please email sales@peakbikes.co.uk for info as to what to do next
pc89, emailed on Sunday but not seen a reply about my hope order yet?
Still waiting on a reply and phone call from you.
That's him!
Looks like the bloke out of the Sage Pay video.
We're trying to get through emails as quick as possible. It's a big job so sorry for any delays!
What I find odd is that some of us did get their orders.
I had a mixed shipment of Shimano and Hope. Whilst delayed it arrived.
So clearly “product” was making it in only to go back out - perhaps it was news to Richard.
I do hope that those who are out of pocket are refunded and that karma finds its way to those that orchestrated this.
PC89 - the local paper has picked this up and it appears they a) don't know the business has been sold and b) can't get hold of you to find out.
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/17310599.end-of-the-road-for-specialist-bike-shop/
I'm famous!
Would be nice to have that £3k back in my account for Xmas pretty please...
Ibis Ripmo is being delivered today from Star Fitness. They look random but have been absolutely excellent with their customer service on the phone and by email.
Hopefully he’s been alerted to this thread and is feeling a bit jittery. I know he joined his boss/mate in hiding all his social channels…..
People on this thread have been posting variations of 'I know where you live' on his twitter.
I'd probably take a break from social media as well.
Hi folks -
We have been speaking to the new owners with regard to anyone who had a Santa Cruz order in with UBYK but that wasn't delivered before the liquidation. They are very keen to help anyone affected, but due to the ongoing mess unfortunately aren't yet in a position to supply these bikes. So have agreed that we will honour these orders directly at the price originally paid.
(While we can't help directly with any monies owing hopefully most of you will be able to claim back via your cards companies).
We are also potentially in the position to be able to transfer any V12 finance agreements too (although this is pending details from V12 themselves).
If you are affected by this situation please get in touch with us asap on either 01423 780088 or info@jungleproducts.co.uk and hopefully we can get you sorted out.
many thanks
Dickon
@ryanw - after being nearly ripped off on a highend bike via mailorder you go and order another high end mailorder bike from a place you know nothing about? Does anyone actually ever find their nearest dealer/stockist foir a brand and use them?
Good on you Dickon - very decent offer.
I called them up before placing the order due to having a few queries about the bike.
They went and looked at the physical, in stock bike whilst on the phone to me and confirmed my queries. Have been very helpful and provided a next day delivery service via DPD.
I always pay by credit card just in case, however, happy to give anyone my money, no matter how big or small the company, as long as they provide a decent service.
"We are also potentially in the position to be able to transfer any V12 finance agreements too (although this is pending details from V12 themselves)."
What are the odds the finance agreements have already been completed and paid out to UBYK?
“What are the odds the finance agreements have already been completed and paid out to UBYK?”
V12 only pay out to the retailer once the customer receives the goods, but usually trust the retailer to confirm that’s happened.
Hi Zeus - Happy for that to happen and we've already had a customer contact us saying he'd re ordered through Pedal & Spoke. However due to a number of these UBYK orders being provided on various special offer prices we would not expect our dealers to take the margin hit.
We also wanted to provide some degree of security and reassurance by dealing directly with these customers, which I would imagine has taken a bit of a knock!
This is a one off situation that we are looking to find the best solution for.
cheers
@chiefgrooveguru
"V12 only pay out to the retailer once the customer receives the goods, but usually trust the retailer to confirm that’s happened."
The retailer has to login and confirm the goods have been received by the customer and then they payout within a few days. This relies on the honesty of the retailer and the fact the individual member of staff who has a login is approved after training to do finance sales and agreements and under FCA regulations is then responsible for their actions.
I have heard of at least one retailer who completes finance agreements early in order to ease cashflow and pay suppliers.
There is one Trustpilot review of UBYK where they completed a finance agreement early....
All the while the suppliers like Jungle above are oblivious to these long term issues or do they not care as long as they are getting sales?
All the while the suppliers like Jungle above are oblivious to these long term issues or do they not care as long as they are getting sales?
Oh they care alright, they'll have credit limits in place so are likely to end up burned themselves unless they see it coming (although they may also have insurance in place too)
...
It's all publicly freely available published information as a ltd company on companies house. You know the kind of information a business would look at when dealing with another business as part of due diligence so they don't get their fingers burnt.
No doubt there is, I was super amazed to see that figure myself.
It’s all publicly freely available published information as a ltd company on companies house.
Curious why you felt the need to go looking for the info then bring it up, while appearing to criticise Jungle for helping out?
@legend
"Oh they care alright, they’ll have credit limits in place so are likely to end up burned themselves unless they see it coming (although they may also have insurance in place too)"
Credit limits based on a credit reference agency check that will say a max of £500 for UBYK only a couple of months ago? Credit limits based on looking at their published annual accounts showing losses? Credit limits based on their poor reviews, poor business practices of saying everything is in stock when it isn't, shipping internationally for free regardless of cost, taking payments before goods are even in stock let alone dispatched? credit limits based on their discounting and massive 0% interest free offers that leave no margin to run a business on and hurts every other dealer?
What I would do as a supplier in that situation is make every dealer commit to even bigger pre-season orders to keep their dealership and then act really surprised when they go bust and I lose money.
Wasn't exactly criticising Jungle per se more think it should have been referring customers to their dealers (they are a supplier after all)
the kind of information a business would look at when dealing with another business as part of due diligence so they don’t get their fingers burnt.
As a consumer I tend not to do those things when buying an item that's listed as in stock by a retailer though?
I'm not suggesting hiding facts but the post did rather smack of "dobbing them in under the guise of offering to help"
Are you just having a pop at every person and company involved in this thread? All I'm saying is that they'll care as they'll get hosed if owed money in this situation. If they have pushed orders onto people then the shop is also to blame for putting themselves on the hook (although it's also unlikely that the shop would then want or be able to take the whole order in one drop)
Sorry you felt it was somehow dobbing someone in, not sure why you would. I figured that as Pedal and Spoke are I believe nearest Santa Cruz dealer to Ubyk Brighton and have a great rep then they could appreciate a supplier doing what a supplier can and refer customers to them.
"As a consumer I tend not to do those things when buying an item that’s listed as in stock by a retailer though?" Is that not what online reviews like google and trustpilot are for or do you just like the rock bottom price?
zeus - no problem with the suggestion - I have freinds who've bought Santa Cruz (and other) bikes from P&S but why drag in an (incorrect as it turned out) loss figure to try and strengthen the argument? This thread is largely about people losing confidence in a retailer and it felt like bringing P&S financial position in wasn't really helping with that?
I don't use online review sites - they're too easily manipulated and tend to promote retailers that pay for advertising, however much they would claim independence. Price is important but I'll favour one retailer over another based on past experience and or the size of the business (I'd tend to pick the smaller one).
I don't spend more than I can afford to lose with a retailer and/or use a payment method that offers protection. It's the same rules I always used when I bought stuff from the classifieds on here and it generally works.
Is this still you offering them support zeus?
I am not trying to do down anyone's business I just feel it's a real shame that really good and enthusiastic retailers cannot make money in this sport that I love or anywhere it seems these days.
We all know about changing shopping habits and brands and suppliers all have a role to play in ensuring we have a thriving industry but I think public awareness of how many well respected and good retailers are suffering can only have a positive impact on shopping habits and pressure brands and suppliers to play their part. Maybe we as consumers will put less emphasis on price and discounts if we really want to keep the good guys trading.
I spoke to a rep for a mid size bike/parts supplier yesterday and he told me of 710 accounts they have in the UK 700 are reporting trading losses.
If we care about our good retailers we need to ensure they have a viable business model and if that means accepting less discount or a shorter 0% interest free period then maybe that's what we need to do.
Maybe some people really don't care as long as they get the very cheapest price possible and that is fine too but eventually you will need up paying more when there is only a handful of large uncaring retailers left or you are buying direct from another country and tolerating very long lead times for warranty replacement frames or even an email reply.
I spoke to a rep for a mid size bike/parts supplier yesterday and he told me of 710 accounts they have in the UK 700 are reporting trading losses.
Reporting these losses to who? Sounds a bit made up tbh
Most bike shops are limited companies and have to file annual accounts at companies house where anyone can view them so that's who they are reporting them to as they are legally obliged to.
Did the rep make it up? Perhaps but not sure why as it's not in his interest. Did I make it up? You are welcome to think that if you like.
WHy are you trying to drag this thread off into an already well trodden tangent?
I want to know about UBYK and what all the good folks who have been ripped off by them are doing.
On whether or not individual managers, other than the owner, are culpable for lies that were told in the run up to the crash, there are some massive assumptions being made that might be true, might not be. I've been that manager, lying (in this case to suppliers rather than customers) but I didn't know they were lies when I told them.
In my case, I knew the business was struggling and we had woeful cash issues. When the owners of the business told me dates and values of incoming investment, I worked out how much we could pay to which suppliers and when. and told the suppliers. Then the promised funding didn't appear, shortly after which we went down the pre-pack administration rabbit hole and the suppliers got shafted.
I'm not saying that this is what happened here, but it could be. Perfectly feasible that the guy making the promises was acting in good faith - although the business was obviously in trouble, it's quite possible he was told "Don't worry, we've found a buyer for the business so it's all going to be alright" - not even entirely untrue, as a buyer was in fact lined up for the business.
I don't know whether something like this happened, or whether the guy in question was in on it. The point is, none of you lot know either. We've had a poster on here saying they guy was a victim along with everyone else, but that could be BS, or could be misinformed. Or, it might be true.
Jackhammer, as I understand it, there's little that can be done until an administrator is appointed (and even then it'll just be a case of registering as a creditor).
However, if you paid by credit card or PayPal then it's certainly worth starting proceedings with them. Likewise, if you'd setup a finance agreement I'd get in touch with V12 right away.
I wasn't really dragging it off topic as such but as loads of posts have been moderated/deleted it will now look like it.
I’ve managed to get sorted finally thanks to the efforts of PayPal and jungle
Thanks folks
Absolutely no thanks at all to James and rich the masters of the vanishing act
Nonk what did you do and say? PayPal have told me that their policy is to wait 10 days for Ubyk to respond and I won’t get anything back until that time has elapsed
Any advise?
Yes I was told today that the 10 day thing is mandatory and has to be applied but that it was an instant refund once the ten days are up
She said that looking at the report and the others that are related to ubyk “don’t worry you definitely will be refunded on the 24th when your ten days are up “
That’s good enough for me .
So that and jungle putting me a frame aside until I’m ready which is muchly appreciated
Well done jungle for helping out.
Ok great. I’ve also spoke with jungle. Kudos to peter(peak bikes)and Martin (jungle products) for helping in this shitty situation.
Nonk you will make a man vanish if you track him down on every social platform available. Including his house.
How ever I am glad you have sorted it and got a frame also.