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Not convinced shop staff were key in any under hand shenanigans! Most probs were thinking what they were relaying was correct.
Mis-placed anger.
Singlespeedstu ^ This is one of just many questions that have been going round my mind. How many of the staff will or can be given a post with the new owners after the lies they have told on the phones and emails. Not only would i struggle with morality knowing I/we were taking money without being able to make good on orders,but to walk back in there as nothing happened ... I did after i was issued a refund tell Stephen Lloyd to find another job as this was one made him out to be a lier .. how ironic that comment was.
Another question that was posted a few pages back was one about how the hand over went Friday.. Im sorry but even in my naivety I can believe any potential buyer of whats left of UBYK wasnt aware of what state the company was in. And if stock has been removed from the shops was that after any hand over papers were signed ?
It’s fraud isn’t it as a retailer giving false info that items are in stock and receiving to then hold monies for those items that will never appear.
Some kind of authority needs to get tough on these bicycle retailers imo. It seems that this does happen elsewhere before now and that there’s no one arguing and issuing orders to force them to come true on lies and deceit other than customers trying in the vague hope to recover monies.
Sad times.
Not convinced shop staff were key in any under hand shenanigans! Most probs were thinking what they were relaying was correct.
And yet Richard gave these assurances to a few of us after the shop was shut up...
I don't think it was like a multi chain shop where the poor staff had no idea what was going on in the boardroom.
He was quite happy to lie to us and even Paypal dispute on his last reply after the shop had shut up.
Anyone managed to have a conversation with Richard moir (magicmoir, on insta and Twitter)?
He was as bad as the directors, until he deleted his insta account, after I had asked him if he knew where my kit/money was, it looked from his photos that he was more than just an employee...
Long time friend, bumchum, puppet of James heath.
He openly lied to me and took my money, probably literally as they were locking the doors.
I wouldnt employ him to clean the toilets at peak bike
A previous comment by Hooja:
Then the only status note regarding that last order read,
only deal direct with Richard m regarding this order
.
Would suggest that as often is the case, the floor staff would have just been following orders from above even if they knew what was happening.
@tdog this isn't just isolated to the bicycle industry, it happens all the time. On the other end of the spectrum, to a (by comparison) tiny independent bicycle retailer, Carillion.
Yes of course it does but we’re specifically discussing a bicycle retailer here. Plus I’ve never heard of any dodgy bicycle retailer that has been put right like in other trades.
Might be worthy of an email to watchdog and trading standards from someone on this thread who has been ripped off.
I just followed my instinct but would have been pissed royally if I had used my debit card as do not do things on credit.
They sounded sketchy from the start with my enquiries so never acted on the impulse at that price.
If that’s the case then I feel very sorry for Richard, if he was unaware of the situation, then his friend has screwed him over!!
Bless him, Richard Moir seems to have not liked Nonk calling him out on twitter!
https://twitter.com/magicmoir/status/1074232069029588992?s=20
even if they knew what was happening.
Having spoken to him and looking at his email answers and his final reply to Paypal I have no dought that he knew what was going on.
19 what are you basing you're posts on?
Stu, sounds like you have correspondence that could very easily prove the deliberate nature of what went on, as does Nonk from the bit he tweeted to Richard Moir.
Well worth uploading it to Action Fraud I reckon!
https://www.actionfraud.police.uk
I think the Twitter thing was in response to me pointing out on Strava that he probably shouldn’t finish all his rides at his front door if he want to shaft people for a living.
Richard was aware, I've no doubt about that. If fraudulent trading can be proved, then managers such as Richard can also be found personally liable and/or face a custodial sentence same as directors.
I think the Twitter thing was in response to me pointing out on Strava that he probably should finish all his rides at his front door if he want to shaft people for a living.
Very generous and helpful advice considering how he's treated customers. Not sure I'd have been that gracious.
The fraud will be reported I won’t be posting where he lives though
It’s not hard to find out where they all live if you look
^^^ Certainly always surprises me how stupid people are when they're up to no good in these data rich times!
^Well said. I see enough of that bullshite within the military when walts are outed. ****ing disgusts me, just like this. They may get away with it, grow up and move on. Or, go take your chances with the law, don't fancy them though. Affray is a bitch.
Im sure Mr Moir knew what was going on, because it wasnt until threats of police intervention were used my refund did not materialize.
Richard Moir should have a long hard think about things and fingers crossed all involved get their just rewards.
Action fraud report completed. Will be reporting to trading standards tomorrow.
It would be good if the law follows this up and gets a result.
Unfortunately the staff did not know what was going on until we was given our redundancy letters with no pay. So the staff lost wages. Harassing people does not fix what happened it is just wrong.
I feel for people that lost money but the staff did aswell including myself we was all thrown in the shit. At a really shitty time of the year.
Harassing and tracking people down is unfair Richard lost his job and wages along side the rest of the staff. We was not aware of what was going to happen.
" I was not aware..."
C'mon, grammar people...
Monkeysfeet, Seriously?
Sorry josh, hope you can get work with the new owners.
I think you all need to calm down.
This. It's one thing to be looking for redress, another to be stalking and harrassing folk who may well have found themselves in an even worse position, the week before Christmas, and who may not be culpable for the money you've lost.
As for the grammar comment, bloody hell...
It’s a bad situation but hopefully in this day and age people know to use PayPal or a credit card to buy online. NEVER use a debit card.
Goods haven’t turned up? Just contact PayPal or credit card company and get your money back.
Not sure why there’s so much moaning in this thread about it. If the deal sounds to good to be true it prob is!
Can’t wait until Evans runs a promo and everyone who said they aren’t buying from them suddenly change their minds!
We all know businesses can fail or need to restructure, but it's when things look a lot more contrived that it grates. In this instance staff like Josh, consumers like many on here, and suppliers have all been burned, and sadly the systems around limited companies often make it too easy for directors to walk away scot free while all around them are in turmoil (I've personally been around this and seen the smugness as the director in question was already lining up the phoenix operation as 25+ staff got the news at the end of the "consultation" period).
So yeah, if there's ways to apply a bit of pressure on those responsible for what looks like a dodgy end to a business (I'm talking action fraud reporting, not turning up at houses just for clarity!!), then all good. With power comes responsibility, and if the directors have been playing with fire and stupid sums of money, then burning everyone round them when it all goes wrong, then they should experience some discomfort rather than stepping away and saying "oh well, it's just business".
I’ve done a bit of digging to try and find who the bloke that took my money, lied to me in emails and then vanished actually is !
All I get however is a wall of silence
If PayPal refunds me end of story I guess but if they don’t I’ll continue to track him down for an explanation
If this is harassment then I dunno maybe he should speak to the police about it
Emails in profile rich
Oh yeah and you have my number
Nonk the company took your money not a member of staff so harassing a member of staff who has lost there job (like I have) is just wrong and will not make your money come back nore will it make my money that I have lost come back.
If you want a solution please contact the liquidation company like I am having to or you payment provider.
Me Richard and all the staff are unfortunately in the same boat as you I have kids to feed and the business going into the situation it has, has screwed me over financially.
All the staff at UBYK feel bad what has happened to customers honestly it is unfair but we ended up in the same situation as your selves. So please stop harassing my friend/ colleuge as it will not make anything better.
I delt with Richard when I ordered something last year and even then he would lie about delays. He even lied about his job title to me at one point until I sent him a screenshot of the ubuk website. Utter Doyle! If he's out of a job and pocket good!
I find it hard to believe that the staff weren’t aware what was happening with items falsely being advertised as in stock. When I wanted to look at an Ibis Ripmo and Yeti SB150, I was told it wasn’t possible, despite the website showing as in stock.
I find it hard to believe that the staff weren’t aware what was happening with items falsely being advertised as in stock.
It happens at plenty of retailers these days, I'm amazed the people ordering didn't clock it really.
It's worked for years so it's probably just been business as usual. The issue here is not the ordering from suppliers it's the money running out. That is not the fault of the people doing the work there, it's the management.
I think some people need to go and take a step back. There are methods for disputing and trying to get your cash back through your bank and paypal. By all means report it to the authorities but quit stalking the staff.
As for the new owners if stuff is coming out of the woodwork not then you didn't do your homework when buying. If you think a name with a 2* trust pilot review and the business practices that go with it are worth keeping then your in trouble. The best thing you can do is make sure you are nothing like what came before you.
but quit stalking the staff.
... over a couple of hundred quid, spent on shiny bike parts. When they have lost their jobs, 10 days before Xmas. Yes it sucks to be you, but have a sense of perspective.
How much Tom ?
It’s an awful lot more than a couple of hundred quid mate
The people who have lost money honestly I am sorry for but please do not take it out on the staff we lost money to and I know it may seem we are not human but honestly we are. We have morels I have kids, rent & bills to pay. I was screwed and so was the like of Richard and everyone other member of staff like I have said.
I completely understand everyone’s frustrations because I am frustrated to but please just contact you payment provider and try and claim your money back or the liquidation company like I am to try and claim my wages and holiday back.
I have put 4 years into this company and I get people are pissed and have every right to be but I and all the other staff are in the same situation aswell. So my apologies and I hope anyone who is in my boat can sort it out.
Nonk what’s your issue? Richard isn’t a director he didn’t take your money? He’s a guy that worked for UBYK who was also done over like I was! I worked with the guy for 4 years! He isn’t a scum bag! He doesn’t deserve to be labelled by UBYK’s wrong doing.
no axe to grind with you josh good luck
Hope it all works out
righto josh I’ll stop talking to your delicate mate on Twitter if it’ll keep you happy
How much Tom ?
It’s an awful lot more than a couple of hundred quid mate
Point simply being your wasting your time there. It was never going to get you any money back, or any goods. I know it sucks and it's a shit position to be in.
Nonk but Richard is not the one to grind with either honestly mate I’ve been stung and so has he. I understand your frustration mate but you at honestly taking it out on the wrong guy.
Nonk are you the guy that contacted him on Strava I guess?
Bet PC89’s wishing he’d paid by credit card...
yep that’s me
I assumed all the polite could you please call me messages I left him must have got lost somewhere
If you see him could you ask him to call me I can’t understand why he feels the need to hide
He is the sales manager after all
Nonk he’s a sales manager not the guy who took your money so harrassing the man will not make a difference.
As I said I understand your frustration but you taking it out on a single member of staff who has now been made redundant like myself is the wrong way to do it.
Pete has made it clear of what you need to do and so have I so please do that instead of harrassing an ex menmber of UBYK staff when we are all stressed because we lost our jobs a week befor Christmas. Because trust me it is very stressful not knowing how your gunna pay your rent when you have 2 kids just after making sure they have a good Christmas.
Richard is in that same boat Nonk you are taking it to far. I get you are pissed about your money but so am I. I lost a lot of money to the point I am gunna have to give up my house potentially but I don’t go stalking people Dow and harrassing them.
Please forward your frustratikn to the right people.
Excuse my spelling or punctuation
I don’t think Nonk grasps that Richard has been made redundant. It sounds like he WAS the sales manager.
Contact your payment provider and get your money back!
Your right josh I’m wasting my time trying to get an explanation out of him
I’ll leave it
dhrider i just want people to get there money back because I am doing the same and so is the guys who I worked with but Richard doesn’t deserve the crap because it wasn’t his doing. He was a member of staff like me and honestly reading this thread sucks because we put full effort for the last 4 years building a business that bit you guys and ourselves in the ass.
Nonk I completely get your frustration but we are are looking for answers too. And I am sorry if you have been burnt by the place honestly I am.
Don’t be mate it’s not your apology to make
Good luck
Ubyk eBay account seems to be back in operation. Few items on there, including a wheel very similar to the one I ordered.
Sympathies to the staff at ubyk. Share your pain just going through a consultation myself.
How much Tom ?
It’s an awful lot more than a couple of hundred quid mate
That you will get back from PayPal, by the looks of it. Or, speak to the disti and see if the order was placed, see if they will post it to you direct, rather than going all Liam Neeson
Ubyk eBay account seems to be back in operation. Few items on there, including a wheel very similar to the one I ordered.
"Trading while insolvent"
Josh,
Well done for coming on and giving a sense of perspective. Good luck for the coming weeks and months and finding a new job... Try not to take some things to heart.
Haven't posted on this site in years but I run my own bike shop not a million miles from a ubyk store and would like to make some points.
Nearly every bike shop is losing money these days and those that aren't are making less than 2% net as is the case in most retail these days. Price is all conquering due to how easy the internet and smartphones make it to shop around especially when the product is the same wherever you buy it from.
Some people think they can build a retail or product brand and sell it on for a tidy sum a la rapha but as consumer retail spending has declined in recent years retailers with big debts and high overheads have been desperate to generate turnover to service these items and they know the score. Ubyks accounts have been rubbish from day one and the staff day to day know it's not going well.
A lot of blame must sit with the suppliers who keep supplying retailers and dealers who continually discount, provide a sub par consumer experience and poor after sales as well as being naughty completing online transactions before shipping goods and probably doing the same with finance agreements most likely. Both illegal afaik.
I hope suppliers keep getting burnt by retailers going bust and learn to be more selective about who they supply and provide a good customer journey. Then good shops may be able to compete with every new startup undercutting them on price.
I know some ubyk staff have kept their jobs, sorry for those who lost wages but if new owner only bought the assets then there should be redundancy pay which is underwritten by the govt I believe.
I can see this scenario happening more and more. So many bike shops have closed in the last 18-24 months that for a failing shop or owner looking to retire the temptation to do this must be strong. You try and sell your business but as sales are declining and margins ever decreasing it isn't generating anything above a salary so has little to no value as a business.
The business may have as much debt as the stock and assets are worth so a sale is not possible. Now a month of major online sales of a very high profile brand such as say hope or santa Cruz or Shimano at less than trade so cheaper than everyone by miles, some Google AdWords and Google shopping spend and maybe some Facebook and Instagram adverts could drive in several hundred orders averaging £500 or so, pay yourself the money and then just liquidate the business. More money than selling and literally walk away leaving liquidators to tidy up.
If a shop owner feels shafted by suppliers doing way cheaper pricing, drop shipping and all sorts to their big spending accounts like wiggle and ubyk etc why would they feel guilty shafting the same suppliers with a liquidation?
Being a great shop is not enough for success these days, consumers can take the experience and knowledge and demo facilities of a good shop and then buy anywhere that is cheapest as the products are usually identical and they infrequently do exactly this.
Brands and suppliers need to take more responsibility for who they supply and how they treat customers.
@special
You seem to be suggesting tht you view price fixing to be a good idea?
drive in several hundred orders averaging £500 or so, pay yourself the money and then just liquidate the business. More money than selling and literally walk away leaving liquidators to tidy up.
Are you suggesting that's what the owners of Ubyk have done in this instance?
Everyone knows certain brands have done it & still do it & ironically they are the brands that people do well with.
It's not uncommon to be able to buy product cheaper than distributor cost, let alone retailer.
brant
Subscriber
@special
You seem to be suggesting tht you view price fixing to be a good idea?
*Opens a new packet of biscuits...*
*Opens a new packet of biscuits…*
Hope you didn't pay full price for them.
So, I'm going to try and claim through my credit card. I need to provide the following:
"...and, if applicable, liquidation documentation (documents detailing the insolvency of the supplier)."
Any idea where I get a copy of the liquidation documentation?
brant
Subscriber
@special
You seem to be suggesting tht you view price fixing to be a good idea?
Or suggesting that mass discounting, especially on stock you do not hold or have not paid for doesn't work, suppliers need a way to safeguard themselves, it could be to put different terms onto retailers who are not holding stock or those that are loss leading, not sure exactly where the law stands on that.
Was it Endura a few years back who said to stock their products you had to have a certain % of the range available?
I paid through PayPal using my credit card, I did the online claim thing with PayPal over the weekend and then got impatient and thought I'd call my cc company. They said they'll refund me in the next 24hrs on the grounds that I didn't received the goods within 15 days when I was led to believe they were in stock.
Might be worth trying your cc company if you used one.
For info, this is when they were trying to sell the business
The telling bit is at the top "Pending the Appointment of Joint Administrators", in other words they were already in significant trouble in the middle of November (first record I can find is from the 15th Nov).
it could be to put different terms onto retailers who are not holding stock or those that are loss leading, not sure exactly where the law stands on that.
You can do that legally - standard trade price and then an incentivised "premier stockist" price for those who carry and hold stock. And as part of that deal, probably supply some extra in-store POS for them too.
Personally I think that's where retail should be headed - in stock, convenience and experience led.
"@special
You seem to be suggesting tht you view price fixing to be a good idea?"
@brant - I'd suggest that the law related to price-fixing long predated online shopping, particularly with smartphones for mobile price checking, and that if we want the high street retail sector to survive there need to be some fundamental changes in how retail is done.
I'd be interested to know how the US retail sector, where 'price fixing' is allowed, is coping compared to the EU retail sector?
You seem to be suggesting tht you view price fixing to be a good idea?
If it stops the unscrupulous listing a load of products, that they don’t have in stock, way below normal price, taking a shit ton of orders and money they had no intention of fulfilling, I’m all for it. Hell, if they were forced to make a certain % on each sale, they mightn’t have gone pop...
Price fixing is surely a double edge sword? If you were to allow the fixing of prices again, would that not encourage more entrants to the market at different price points? I've never thought it really fixes anything to not allow it. Yes you create competition and value for certain products, but at the same time you hinder the development of others. For example do you think you would see more or less X Fusion forks on bikes (bought via shops) if RockShox forks were always sold at a fixed price? And if that was happening do you think that RockShox would still be fixed at their higher price or move towards the XF price?
Of course the bike market has some issues with OEM leakage that bypass all those issues which many other industries don't have. When was the last time you heard of KwikFit selling really cheap tyres for example? If other industries can keep OE under control I don't see why cycling cannot.
Of course the bike market has some issues with OEM leakage that bypass all those issues which many other industries don’t have. When was the last time you heard of KwikFit selling really cheap tyres for example? If other industries can keep OE under control I don’t see why cycling cannot.
Bang on. I heard about a UK subsidiary of a P&A brand struggling for sales due to OEM product flooding the market, sold by their own global HQ! Talk about a short termist strategy.
OEM control is probably one of the first ports of call in an attempt to sort the issues in the sector.
sounds like a shitty situation all round. sorry for the staff who got burned at this time. almost happened to me exactly 8 or so years ago - while I was off work moving into a house I'd just bought! so glad it didn't happen in the end.
re: trading while insolvent - depends who's got the keys to the ebay account? could be the insolvency people blowing out the stock.
re: not actually having stock. this is very standard including online motor parts and things like skateboard goods. the distributors will guarantee certain things are in stock. some will even ship direct to your customer for you. (not defending it, i dont like the practice either). some companies even exist where you basically brand a website and they own and hold the stock.
re: the blame game. when the the staff not in the know find out? the witchhunt, while entertaining is heading into the realms of defamation. obviously they knew when the shops were emptied.
did that stock go into storage because of refits, and not some underhand fire sale/ebay blowout?
new owner: although people here say the brand us burned it is, but in only here. most people don't check where they're ordering from, and with CC / paypal protection will take a punt for a bargain.
when you reopoen doors & put website back up put a clear statement explaning what has happened and help those people affected by 'ubyk limited' and rior owners to either contact their CC company, paypal or the insolvency people. this is damage control on your new (albeit fire damaged) brand.
I'd consider trading under another name or modified name and funnel all 'UKBYK' leads through into the new name (or peak which isn't a bad name at at all) - it wouldnt be too crazy to have a website do this - two frontends running off one database with slightly different branding). or "peak now incorporating ubyk wich directly confirms the aquistion). this retains the website tech, and name without giving the website admin a heart attack.
renaming this might also be the only way to dodgge/purge those bad trust advisor type reviews and this post as there is a stain against the name ubyk left over part of the internet by this debacle.
You might think that but I couldn't possibly comment!
I am sure everything is completely above board. Having a new owner lined up on the basis of going into liquidation and run a massive black Friday sale of stock I don't have at below cost sounds a good plan.
No and not legal under EU law, although I don't think it's always a bad idea in a market with lots of competing brands or products but that's a whole different matter.
A brand being careful who they supply and want to protect and promote their brand image and consumer experience and after sales etc could gain by only supplying dealers who can deliver all that which means they need to be able to make enough margin and turniver. If they are constantly undercut by a low staff, low margin retailer who earns the sale off the back of the work done by another hard working dealer purely because they are willing to well at a lower margin. They may think they can make enough money or even make none but build a brand they can sell to a venture capital outfit, all off the back of being the cheapest.
If a brand purely wants to sell as much as possible and to hell with the consequences then fine but if they care about their consumers and their brand image/value and future of the industry then they should care.
Seems to me that eventually there's going to be two ways to buy a bike. One is direct sales and the other is through big chain bike shops who can afford to sell their own brand bikes. That's what the place I used to work at did. They weren't huge (5 stores in total, each one with probably 100 to 150 bikes in stock at any one time) and they sold Fuji and their own brand who were re-branded Superior Bikes from the Czech Republic (if you remember them from a few years ago with their somewhat old-fashioned attitudes to mountain biking)
Bump - Does anyone know where I get a copy of the liquidation documentation (documents detailing the insolvency of the supplier)? So I can fill in my credit card claim?
I’d be interested to know how the US retail sector, where ‘price fixing’ is allowed, is coping compared to the EU retail sector?
If you head on over to the PBMA on facecook you will find people buying from the UK to price match as its cheaper than US wholesale and a whole lot of oother unhappy shit
If they are constantly undercut by a low staff, low margin retailer who earns the sale off the back of the work done by another hard working dealer purely because they are willing to well at a lower margin.
Thats almost as comical as the buy british mob who then complain its more expensive than that chinese trash except they buy the chinese trash.... Thats the punter not the shops fault punters need reeducating but like other things when i can write three off for the price of one....well its not rocket science
Best idea sell direct **** everyone else till the whole ship finally does sink
Edd if in administration or liquidation it will be registered at companies house. Do a search on there under the company name it’s a free service.
Nothing at companies house. Can you not just claim for non delivery? Liquidation documents might take a while to show up officially.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07633141/filing-history
@special
You seem to be suggesting tht you view price fixing to be a good idea?
I could put a lot of my thoughts onto this thread but I’ll leave them I think.
But price fixing - that’s really the only way forward imo. My trade has been through the pain of this and on the other side, the brands that price fix do so much better all around. We can offer a better service, the arse doesn’t get ripped out of the product, a decent living is earned by all. It took some big brands with big balls to move in that direction though and actually police it. A couple of brands will reimburse us a price match and overall, it’s a better place to be for the suppliers, retailers and customers all round.
Surely you should have seen it coming..."a deeply unsettling existential horror story, a nightmare you'll never be sure you've woken up from" The protagonist, Joe Chip, is a debt-ridden technician...............
As for the existing owners, full on crooks.
I think you mean ‘exiting’ rather than ‘existing’...
Looks like whoever has access to the Ubyk Ltd Trustpilot account is reporting all negative reviews to try and get them removed. My favourite - a customer who dropped his bike in for service and it's now gone AWOL in the shutdown. Ubyk Ltd have reported the review and posted a comment "this is not a review". Genius. Yes - it absolutely is a review. Give the guy his bike back.
I’ve opened a case with PayPal and fingers crossed I’ll get my money back ASAP.
Ouch, so do I. Good luck and hope it works out.
Give the guy his bike back.
How can the new owners give him his bike back if the old ones stole it?
How can the new owners give him his bike back if the old ones stole it?
I'm not saying for the new owners to. I'm saying for the old ones, presumably the ones flagging his review as "not a review". But even then it's a figurative phrase - stop trying to block reviews of your shady practices and do the right thing.
Really hope they all get their comeuppance.