I've been looking at new bikes and was fairly settled on a Vitus Substance until I noticed that its, to my untrained eye, the same frame as an On-One Free Ranger which is currently a lot cheaper. And then looking around I see its also the same as a Bombtrack Hook, which is a lot more expensive. And looking further I've found the same frame from one of the Chinese sellers at a pretty cheap price.
So, given they're probably out of the same open mold, are they all going to be equal in terms of ride or is each likely to have been tweaked layups to change the ride quality. i.e. am I better just to get the cheapest one available as they are all the same bike in different colours.
It's kind of put me off to be honest and got me looking at frames where at least the manufacturer has input a lot into frame design rather than picked something out a catalogue. Fine for the cheaper On-One; less impressed on the Bombtrack.
Thought this was gonna be about Santa Cruzes.
Waves to those that know who I’m referring to 😉
To answer the OP, normally extra costs go into quality control, so you’re less likely to get a duff one if you pay more. That’s the theory anyway
I guess you'll never know if the layups are different - I would probably guess not - they just bang out the same frame for everyone and just paint it differently.
NB Both the wife and I have Free Rangers....
Likely its from:
My FM936 is a Vitus Rapide FS
Carbonda offer two carbon lay ups.
They are both budget brands so this is not surprising
The other things you won't see along side layup are the little things the manufacturer will have input on, say slightly flatter seat stays to improve comfort and so on.
There's really only so many ways a diamond frame can look much different, there's things that work, there's things that don't and there are things that don't make any real difference, it's mostly the latter ones which dictate how much frame a looks like it's had input vs frame b. Most of it is marketing.
I've a Freeranger too, can recommend it.
I totally accept that UK brands can in principle add QC, customisation etc and are likely a better bet for after sales.
But is there really any reason to think that those brands which seem to just resell the carbonda 696 are actually adding anything other than branding? Just because they can do this doesn't mean they are. And they all either say nothing like that, or claim (disingenuously) that they manufacture it.
In theory, I get it. But if you want a 696, carbonda basically have just as good a reputation as the (cheaper) rebadgers and are very easy to deal with. When I was looking, I didn't encounter any anecdotal variation in how satisfied people are with the different ways of obtaining this very common frameset.
(I have one, I got it in the UK. But I never thought I was getting anything materially different to going direct. )
Are we allowed to link to threads on Reddit?
https://www.reddit.com/r/gravelcycling/comments/n5k8ti/list_of_bikes_using_the_carbonda_696/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
normally extra costs go into quality control, so you’re less likely to get a duff one if you pay more. That’s the theory anyway
And do they supply a free pinch of salt to take any such claims with?
Are we allowed to link to threads on Reddit?
Not all of them, but that one should be fine.
😀
But is there really any reason to think that those brands which seem to just resell the carbonda 696 are actually adding anything other than branding?
No, I just wanted a complete bike and On-one was cheap, so bought that. Doesn't bother me at all that it's a generic frame (which I knew before buying).
Interesting stuff; even more common than I thought then. Im now leaning towards either on-one as the cheapest complete build variant so far, a Carbonda custom build, or something nice in metal. I dithered too long on a Secan and now lead times are horrendous again!
The Vitus is the Carbonda CFR696 as is the Planet-X, the Bomb Track and the massively expensive Pearson. I very much doubt there's any difference in any of the frames other than paint.
I've got the Vitus version and its ace to be honest, so I've absolutely no doubt they'll all ride exactly the same, tyres and wheels aside.
I totally accept that UK brands can in principle add QC, customisation etc and are likely a better bet for after sales.
You're having an absolute giraffe if you think that the UK rebuilders / importers do anything other than check the thing isn't snapped when they get it out of the shipping container.
And do they supply a free pinch of salt to take any such claims with?
Dunno about them, but my salt comes in an artic…
All the SC owners looking at you like...
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Thought this was gonna be about Santa Cruzes.
Waves to those that know who I’m referring to 😉
The benefit of getting from a UK brand is the "local" guarantee and they'll probably have it in a colour scheme that you like
The benefit of getting from a UK brand is the “local” guarantee and they’ll probably have it in a colour scheme that you like
"Guarantee" you reckon?
TBH I'd consider doing it if I had the startup money and time spare; Pick a frame you know will sell out of the catalogue, spec' the paint and stickers and know you can mark it up by an appropriate amount (helpfully several others have already set some guide prices)...
I remember brant answering this question years ago on a similar thread. Just because it's the same shape from the same mould there are so many other factors that go into building a frame that they are not all equal.
Personally considering how good the value of an on one free ranger is I'd struggle to see past it apart from the colour schemes they have.
If you do opt for a direct China frame just make sure you do your research and don't buy anything with a western brand name as it will definitely be counterfeit
Personally considering how good the value of an on one free ranger is I’d struggle to see past it apart from the colour schemes they have.
Red and Black isn't too bad!
Ribble had a frame that was the same as a Deda and Viner ! Same mold, same Toray carbon. Very common.
You’re having an absolute giraffe if you think that the UK rebuilders / importers do anything other than check the thing isn’t snapped when they get it out of the shipping container.
Am not sure Kinesis even open the cardboard box that the frames come in to be honest, and when you ask them for vital bolts that aren't supplied with their extortionate parts kits they just sort of a take a guess at what size they might be.
Shall we start a list of how many UK 'builders' use Waltly for their Ti frames? 😎
The advantage of getting it from On One vs china direct is that with On One you get warranty and customer service and... oh, no, wait, that's wrong
There is no rational business argument for ordering a proprietary version of an open mould frame. Why would you want to tie up cash and order commitments when you have the flexibility to call-off orders on demand for different sizes and know they’ll arrive in 6 weeks? This fanciful notion that the semi-skilled labour that layup these frames somehow realise that because it’s being shipped to the UK will take extra diligence because Joe from the Blogs Bike Co is such a nice chap and his marketing blurb says his bikes are ‘special’ and charges more for the privilege.
Joe is lucky to be bestowed with X-Ray vision too, so carefully inspects each one inside and out, spotting all those flaws those nasty Chinese people usually include in their domestic product before lovingly assembling like like an artisan - rather than chucking them in a warehouse and getting the trainee mechanic on minimum wage to build them for him.
*Names and events are purely co-incidental with real life 😉
I love my Free Ranger but the main reason for getting it was the convenience of next day delivery. The frame was also heavily discounted to the point it was probably cheaper than importing from Carbonda.
Main advantage of going with Carbonda is that you can spec a custom paint job and have 'one of a kind'. If I could have been bothered I would have probably quite liked to do this, but convenience was king for me.
As other have said I think the frames [Vitus/ Planet X] are all exactly the same and regards support, warranty...who knows. I do remember planet X suggesting that the steerer didn't require a crown race... yeah right.
