[Closed] Tyres, thoughts, decisions, plans etc.

Look at what the lads who are beating him are using?

Tubeless yes, and low pressures?

Tubeless and 18/20 front/rear on pressure.

We found that suddenly extra weight, extra speed and extra "grrr" as he got stronger and bigger led to issues around keeping air in tyres. He both lost huge time on stages and destroyed a few wheels.

We went from trail tyres to much tougher carcasses and inserts on rear, tough tyres on front.

I've not really looked into the insert thing at this stage... it hasn't been an issue yet in terms of flatting etc, i can't recall the last time he sprung a leak. So not a road we've ventured down yet.

You’re not going to get a useful answer without doing some timed testing. Do you have a second set of wheels? If I were racing I’d want to have two sets of tyres, one for muddier/looser, one for grippier conditions.

You’re not going to get a useful answer without doing some timed testing. Do you have a second set of wheels? If I were racing I’d want to have two sets of tyres, one for muddier/looser, one for grippier conditions.

Tis a good point.... the answer is "sort of" and certainly short term. They're 100*15 and 142*12 and i can easily borrow wheels from a mate for races or testing. But we only have 1 wheel of our own in spares lol. The reason is that 1 of his others died a death, we never got round to replacing it.

But it's a good point and good idea... i can certainly steal a spare set of wheels for the day on race/practice day next time.

In terms of 'on a given race day' i don't mind swapping tyres for him on the fly, i've got an Airshot and tyres these days go up brilliantly, so whilst it would be 10 mins, it's no biggy to consider swapping on the day.. or even the day before, whatever really.

I guess the only thing holding me back on buying new wheels at the moment is the fact that we'll be changing his bike later this year and that'll be 148 and 110 rather than 100/142.

Abigale races on 29 Butcher Blck Dmnd, 2.6 front 2.3 rear, 22psi front 24psi rear, tubeless and no inserts.
She has over the years tried every tyre and combination out there and has always reverted back. They have usually been passed down to us or given away and we still have a shelf of them to go at. I dread to think what the cost has been.
Its one of the things she checks herself before every race. When you are racing its a trade of on speed, grip, weight and reliability. A pinch flat or damaged sidewall in a race and unless you are lucky your out of the running and way down the pack. She is that used to the tyres that she knows how they perform in all conditions
Any sign of damage to the tyre and its swapped out for a new one ASAP and again passed down for us to use.
Not tried the latest updated T9 compound yet, they are on the shelf for her to test once she is fully mended.

I’d change for the conditions if it were me.

417 has no mud on the blues - a shorty / dhf are going to lose some speed on there. I’d stick the dhf on the front and maybe the Trailboss on the rear.

If you race somewhere like Minehead where I think it’s steep / natural / muddy then the Shorty in the front makes perfect sense - personally I’d put a dhr2 on the back for better breaking than the DHF but it’s probably not worth throwing money at if the boy doesn’t even notice.

I think the butcher and the vigilante are similar in intention to the DHF so I don’t think they give you any better options. The DHF and Shorty have you covered at the front.

If you’re not currently flatting I wouldn’t worry about inserts or tougher casing tyres tbh.

I run the same tyres when racing as I do normally, which is a MaxxGrip Assegai DoubleDown on the front & a MaxxTerra DHR2 DoubleDown on the back. The most I would do is swap out the front if I was racing somewhere natural like Minehead & it was pissing with rain. I would throw on a Shorty on the front.

Can't/won't use lighter casing tyres as I can flat them too easily when riding normally & i'd be p*ssed off if I compromise a race because of a flat due to trying to get away with a light tyre.

I've tried many tyres over the years. I tend to give all my Specialized tyres away as they are universally crap. The only WTB tyre I have used which is decent is the Judge (like a DHR2 on steroids). Michelin have been a hard no (Wild Enduros are remarkably puncture prone) but I have been testing a DH22/DH34 combo which might just edge out the my favourite Maxxis combo in terms of grip, but they are over 1.5kg each & roll like treacle. Schwalbe, I got so fed up of knobs tearing off, I don't even look at them any more.

I was forced down the Michelin route above due to availability of Maxxis, but I have a big box of Assegai's & DHR's about to drop, so i'll likely go back to what I know/like soon enough.

That said, if he can't tell the difference, then as long as it's a half decent tread pattern & suitable for the conditions, then crack on I say 🙂

I am of the mindset that 2 wheelsets with contrasting tyres set up on them is a very good idea, that's what I do and I don't even race!

That being said...how seriously is he taking the racing?  If he's not giving you feedback what he likes or what he doesn't like and doesn't pinch/burp tyres, I would probably just fit a set of all rounders, Assegai/DHR2 for example, in EXO casing and call it good.

front DHF for dry/intermediate conditions and shorty for muddy.

rolling resistance makes a huge difference.

I`d not bother with specialized tyres unless its bone dry then a butcher would work as the grip just isnt the same as a decent compound DHF.

Ive used specialized and DHF exclusively forpretty much forever since spec started selling the butcher cheap! Always a DHF on teh big bike though.

Unless hes riding really hard id not bother with inserts yet but use a exo or whatever the middle sidewall is for maxxis on teh rear and the lightest on the front.

I used to run a Specialized Hillbilly Grid up front and either a Butcher grid (wet/muddy) or Slaughter grid (dry/hardpack) on the rear - ran that combo for a few years up until the last iteration of Gription came out (before the T7/T9 compounds) as the Grid Trail casing seemed to be flimsier than the original Grid. Never had any issues with the Hillbilly (essentially a Shorty) on differing types of terrain.

Had a brief flirtation with High Roller 2s front and rear.....Exo casing....lasted 1 ride and resulted in a dent in a brand new Mavic Crossmax rim...

Switched to WTB a couple of years ago - Verdict on the front (light high grip) Judge on the back (tough high grip), great grip and very tough, just a bit weighty.

Tried Maxxis again just before Christmas, Assegai Exo+ Maxx Grip on the front, DHR II Double Down 2.3 Max Terra on the rear - definitely faster than the WTB combo, however i pinch flatted the Double Down casing on the 4th ride out.

Have just received some Rimpact inserts and will run them with the Assegai on the front and DHR II Exo+ on the rear, fingers crossed that this is the magic combo.

I've just been in and checking the spares/wheels.... the front i have in his axles is a Sun Ringle.... lets just say, getting tyres on and off it is a bit difficult... and that's the bloody understatement of the day. I eventually managed to get a DHF on it but i think it's got a leaky valve at the rim, so if it doesn't stay up i think i'll end up binning the wheel lol

I also found a WTB Convict in a 2.5 but in honesty that needs to go in the trash as it's a bit worn.

I used to be a serial tyre swapper but these days find the magic mary supertrail soft to be the perfect all rounder in the UK - I've ridden everything on it from the golfie in January to bone dry laps at revs. I am intrigued at the new ultrasoft model but the sideknobs wear fast enough on the soft version.

I'm a bit more flexible on the back. I really like the wild enduro rear for 75% of the year, then a DHR2 or butcher etc for the worst of the winter. Likewise if doing something where rolling resistance is important over grip (e.g. a dry ard rock) then I like a 2.3 doubledown agressor or supergravity hans dampf.

@Tracey makes a good point about reliability and trusting kit. Particularly on contact points between bike-ground and rider-bike.

We tried a few things out that led to crashes or failure. Being able to trust kit leads to speed surely?

Eldest has now settled in tyres that work for him - Michelin Enduro, avec WTB insert - and sticks with them.

@Tracey makes a good point about reliability and trusting kit. Particularly on contact points between bike-ground and rider-bike.

We tried a few things out that led to crashes or failure. Being able to trust kit leads to speed surely?

Absolutely.... but he's at that stage where his trust is just a 'given' he doesn't seem to trust tyre 1 less, or tyre 2 more.... The speed he goes is the speed he goes... but i'm wondering if say picking a lighter faster tyre by default of it being faster, he'll get a little quicker at certain terrain and races, riding purely on trust. Because he's only 50kg and quite smooth on landings, over rocks etc, punctures/failures haven't really come into play yet. They just don't happen.

Surely a shorty at 417 isn't the best idea? less grip, more vague and slower rolling on hardpack/rocks?

Surely a shorty at 417 isn’t the best idea? less grip, more vague and slower rolling on hardpack/rocks?

That's kinda part of my question though matey..... The Shorty has been his default rubber in recent winter months... So if it's not the best.... What of the above should i lob on there for 417. Taking into account the previous races have been Blue Raccoon, i'd expect this one to be on the same course, so full on hardpack, even when it's wet, it's still pretty hard.

WTB Vigilante (light and tough) 2.5
Specialized Butcher Grid 2.35
Specialized Eliminator 2.6
WTB Trail Boss (light and fast) 2.35
Minion DHF 2.4 (i think)

Or "something you've not yet bought... how about a...... "

Whilst budget isn't unlimited... within reason i'm prepared to give something a try.

The 2nd race is at Twisted Oaks for Southern Enduro, which again is quite hardpacked, so it's not impossible that whatever we fit for 417 we can also use at Twisted Oaks.

I'm going to guess that potentially the DHF may be worth a try on the front. I think he's already got a DHF on the rear.... i still don't quite grasp the DHF/DHR thing as some say to run DHF on the back not the front, then some say to run DHRs on the front lol.

buy 'em and try 'em. think yourself lucky he isnt racing an rs125 🙂

buy ’em and try ’em. think yourself lucky he isnt racing an rs125

LOL weirdly it's not on his list of thoughts at all... no interest in the big toys.

I ain't complaining in the slightest, if he hated a tyre, the odds are, it'll go on mine 🙂

minion dhf front and trail boss rear should be a good shout for hardpack

In racing the tyre is always a compromise. Its knowing the best compromise for the race and that will differ dramatically between a Mini DH and a 10k+ EWS stage and then add in each stage condition in the race is designed to be different.

The trade off in tyre pressure for any tyre is a fine one between speed, grip and getting to the end without flatting.

Time him on a run, that has all the elements in it, rock roots, jumps, loam, mud and steep with the existing tyres and pressure setup and then up the PSI a couple of pounds and time again and again until you get the best compromise for him. It should be quicker as less drag but could be slower due to less grip.

Its only with trial and error that you will get it right or he will

Its easy to throw money at other tyres but it can be very costly, as we found out, with no beneficial gain and no nearer a solution.

Back in 2017 Abigale raced in France in horrendous conditions, 1/3 of the women DNF for various reasons. Abigale finished but of the 9 stages she flatted the rear on 8 of them. She rode the last stage after flatting at the top with out repairing it, was elated at finishing but in tears due to the tyre problem and frustration . We were lucky as a major tyre manufacturer had their development team in the pits and they took some time out to explain to us her problem that weekend. The main problem apart from the tyre durability choice was that we were set up too light and too soft for the conditions. It was as simple as that

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Punctures are the main reason for DNF at most races

One thing to bear in mind that he's far lighter than an adult rider, so the load when he corners will be much lower. If you look at fast cars, something like a Lotus Elise has much skinnier tyres than a Ferrari 430 which is much heavier. So that does make me wonder if tyres are much less critical for him than for a bigger rider?

One thing to bear in mind that he’s far lighter than an adult rider, so the load when he corners will be much lower. If you look at fast cars, something like a Lotus Elise has much skinnier tyres than a Ferrari 430 which is much heavier. So that does make me wonder if tyres are much less critical for him than for a bigger rider?

IT's a good Qn mate.

I've been looking for spare wheels to buy for him today, but nothing really popping up within a sensible price range considering I only really want them for 6 months maybe 12 until he get a new bike. I can't see me faffing about changing tyres during practice, but i could easily swap wheels.

For me, shorty exo front if it's wet, doubledown dhr2 on the back
DHR2 exo maxxgrip on the front if it's dry, supergravity rockrazor on the back.
DHRs both ends if I'm undecided but that's not often

(it's worth having the 2 different dhrs, the maxxgrip exo is a fantastic front tyre. Wish there was a shorty maxxgrip exo)