I’ve absolutely no idea about tyre inserts or whether I’d even benefit from them.
Both bikes have 25mm internal rims running 2.35 tyres tubeless. Riding is mainly XC stuff with a couple of badly executed jumps every now and again.
What’s the benefit of inserts and would there be any benefit for the riding I do?
depends where you ride (rocky) and how many pinch punctures you get. Do you get many? If not I'd not worry.
Yes especially on the rear
my Rimpact looks like I’ve attacked it with a Stanley blade but the rims are fine
I run a pair of Rimpact Pro's on both bikes and I really like them. Two inserts are lighter than one of the 29er innertubes that I have so to me the weight is meaningless.
I like the feel of the ride as well. It's quieter and the tyres squirm around less. I haven't destroyed any tyres since I fitted them.
I do ride heavy bikes and gravitate towards gnarlier stuff and uplifts. Never been an XC rider.
Let's just not mention fitting them or switching tyres and there's absolutely no downsides for me.
I’m a big fan of Cushcore on my full sus for enduro type riding.
They mean I can run lighter more compliant tyres at lower pressures, which means that my suspension feels plusher and I get more grip.
They also protect my rims better than stronger casings would do. I can’t remember the last time I heard a rim ping, which used to happen a few times every ride on double down.
I haven’t tried the lighter ones on XC type riding. I’m not sure how much of an advantage they’d be for gentler riding.
I'd say they're a solution to a problem you don't have.
I'd always go a heavier tyre with no insert as a preference if I was getting a lot of punctures.
They don't stop stuff like this happening either.
EXO tyre with Rimpact pro.
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On the other hand, smashing though a rock garden today, my tyre made the most massive pop sound, almost as loud as a gunshot, and then was absolutely fine with Cushcore in.
How about putting in an insert that contained all the air, leaving the tyre layer as protection? You could call it an "inner tube".
For fairly gentle/XC riding, I'd probably not bother.
I've got them in the rear tyres of my two main bikes. Full sus has a Vittoria, and hardtail a Cushcore.
Big benefit is I've never killed a rim since fitting them, but I did rip the sidewall out the hardtail, which I suspect was caused by the Cushcore providing support for a rock to rip through the sidewall. However it did allow me to finish riding down the trail, and the 4 miles back to the van.
Downsides are they are a pain to fit, ranging from just being slightly awkward (large tyre with plenty room for the insert to move), to an absolute pain with you questioning the meaning of life (Cushcore!) but the Cushcore butt plug tyre lever really does help.
Not for the riding you describe.
What’s the benefit of inserts and would there be any benefit for the riding I do?
Ability to run lower tyre pressure without losing tyre stability.
Rim/ puncture protection.
Damped riding feel. Difficult to describe but definitely there. This one can also be a minus rather than a plus depending on preference.
I have two sets of wheels for my Sentinel. The enduro wheels have Rimpact Pro, the xc/trail wheels don’t.
For you I’d probably say not worth it.
I've got a set on my gravel bike (Vittoria Air Liner). Massive pain in the arse to fit but one of them saved me a long walk home when the tyre got a big slit in it, I was able to just ride it home on the insert. It felt like riding an under-inflated tyre but it worked perfectly, saved the rim and instead of a long walk home it became a slightly slower ride home.
I run a cheapo nukeproof insert both front and rear. Have had them so long I've had to shorten and affix them with a cable tie as they've expanded over time.
Swapped the back for the front recently as it was gnashed after a few flats, but it did allow me to nurse the bike down.
Run significantly lower pressures on the rear than I would do otherwise. Low 20s.
Not convinced there's much difference between all the various inserts. They're taking up space the air otherwise would.
Mate offered me his old Schwalbe procore set up, but it seemed heavy and more faff.
Had exactly the same with a new DD Aggressor with the inserts.
Just unlucky.
How about putting in an insert that contained all the air, leaving the tyre layer as protection? You could call it an “inner tube”.
Which makes the tyre less compliant.
Side question..any value in an insert in a gravel bike tyre use on comparatively rough ( for a gravel bike) surfaces?
my tyre made the most massive pop sound
OK you've convinced me to run EXOs with inserts rather than DH tyres.😂
I'm not convinced you will see any benefits given your description.
There a bit like volume spacers in forks, people want them to prove how RAD they are .
The reality is they don't prevent the most common issue which is a slash in the tyre .
They do help fend of rim dents if your clumsy or run really low tyre pressures
The rimpacts been low on the list of reccomendations for this ,I'd get cushcore and forgot the others
For people who suggest it allows them to run lower pressures in the high teens in some cases what tyres are you running where you feel such lack of grip that such low pressures are required.
I'd be more inclined to recommend you run maxx grip ,scwalbe ultra soft,e13 mopo etec etc for better grip that run high teens for tyre pressures
The media has us all believing lower is better.
Not even the racers will actually tell you the real psi they run as when there doing there bike check they'll say I'm running 24 frt 26 rear because that's what the sponsors wants to hear.
Not my words but the Exact words of steve peat and brycland of which goldstone who weights less than a packet of quavers runs mis 30 psi on his race run
It's similar to the bergan paradox. The bigger the bag, the more shit you fill it with.
Put in an insert, you'll run your tyres at an unnecessary low pressure.
But yeah, compliance, pinch flats, etc etc, yawn.
Side question..any value in an insert in a gravel bike tyre use on comparatively rough ( for a gravel bike) surfaces
So i've inserts in the rear of both my FS bikes (Stumpy and Epic ev0), but i'd say the DUAL inserts on my gravel bike are where i see most benefit...
The narrower rims and lower pressures work perfectly with the inserts.. I ride my gravel bike pretty hard (basically, i ride the same stuff I do on my XC bike!) and it's made it so much nicer to ride.
DrP
The reality is they don’t prevent the most common issue which is a slash in the tyre .
Depends, I would say the most common issue on Maxxis tyres the one in the pic above ^ . I see way more tyres destroyed by bead slashes than cuts on the cap. For that particular problem Cushcore definitely rules supreme.
My advice for inserts is the same for every use - if you're not damaging your rim, or likely to damage it then don't bother, if you are, then do. It totally depends on the tyres too. Im running Super Trail Schwalbes at the moment and they're very tough and quite a firm sidewall, so I've gone with XC inserts so I can run 17/20Psi and not worry about dings, but I don't need/want/whatever extra support of one of the big cushcores; the tyres do that mostly on their own as they're relatively stiff, If I stepped it up to Super grav I would keep them, if I went full DH I might ditch them at that point as the tyre is so stiff at that point that realistically there's no benefit from the insert other than occasionally offering some extra ding protection in extreme cases, and I could just add a few PSI to sort that out when needed rather than carrying the weight of the insert all the time.
Side question..any value in an insert in a gravel bike tyre use on comparatively rough ( for a gravel bike) surfaces?
Just don't do it. Gravel + inserts is a world of pain as you discover that the tyre is cut and you now have to deal with a big soggy insert rather than just whack a tube in.
I tried one in the rear of my Cotic, worked as described but TBH the hour or so it took to get in/out meant that it only lasted as long as the tyre.
Running Michelin Wild Enduro's tubeless in the Tweed Valley and I was looking for the ability to run low(er) psi and not smash the rim. Conclusion for me was, add a couple of psi instead.
There a bit like volume spacers in forks, people want them to prove how RAD they are .
I know there's a diverse range of opinions on here but WTF does this even mean? Since when has using volume spacers been a flex?
The reality is they don’t prevent the most common issue which is a slash in the tyre .
The most common issue for me was tyre deformation in big G-outs and rock gardens leading to snakebites and burping. You know when you're schralping in the party trains? Sorry for being RAD.
They do help fend of rim dents if your clumsy or run really low tyre pressures
The next time I'm on the Fort William world cup track or Glencoe I'll try to ride around all of the rocks. I'm sure there's a non-clumsy line in there somewhere that satisfies your level of accuracy.
I've never run pressures lower than around mid 20's cos I'm a big lad.
Agree with those saying unnecessary. I've never felt the need - I had a hardtail ebike, where it was recommended by the manufacturer - I didn't fit one and didn't get any pinches (and hardtail eMTBs are damn hard on the rear wheel!)
On the other hand, my son, rides with his Uni club, constantly pushing themselves to do bigger jumps and drops, the insert has saved his riding. Was getting a pinch almost every ride and trashed 2 rear wheels in a few rides.
bit like volume spacers in forks, people want them to prove how RAD they are .
Some people are, actually, quite rad. I'll happily admit to not being one of those people. 😀
Hardcore hardtails should come with them fitted to the rear as standard.
If you ride trails with lots of square edge obstacles (rocks, steps etc) then they will save your rims and tyres (I even pinch flat tubeless tyres at times). Even the most finessed rider gets tired and that's when your rear wheel gets smashed into the odd waterbar. That's when you're thankful that you have an insert fitted, especially when you're miles away from civilisation and would require either a lengthy walk or getting yourself covered in sealant fitting a tube.
Front tyre, (IME) you dont really need an insert but I don't weigh 100kg or race downhill/enduro.
I'll sooner go up in casing than faff around with inserts, I'm not convinced that they really do much to support the tyre and arn't really stiff enough to protect the bead (the flat tyre defenders are the exception, but are a **** to fit)
Ran double down tyres in the alps this year, would normally run DH casing, ran inserts, didn't puncture. Had to run them at a fair bit more pressure than normal to stop the tyre squirming. Wore the maxxis out, so a set of Conti DH tyres have gone on (couldn't buy the contis at the time)
To me they're worth it, as I've been destroying rims, and on an e-bike with a clydesdale-esk rider, I see no drawback to having them. I've tried Nukeproof ARD's, I think there better than nothing, but cushcores are on a different level, with decent side wall support. Changed my rear tyre last week*, lots of sign of potential damage to the rim on the insert, and found it no more difficult than fitting tyre with a stiff tyre wall**.
*OEM Spesch tyre that I was not interesting in binning for no good reason, though it had floppy sidewall pre the insert, it went onto last nearly 2K miles & felt no worse that any other (maxxis/schwalbe) tyre with the insert fitted
**Eddie current I'm looking at you
This ride is a good example for me, of when it would beneficial to fit inserts.
Wouldn't want to walk all that lovely trail after I'd totalled my rear tyre/wheel. But I'm not the best rider in the world so maybe my opinion doesn't matter.
Advice wise for the OP - I think Ben up there is bang on.
The idea that because pros have their equipment a certain way, thats all we need is completely flawed.
They race. Its an environment thats tests equipment to the limits, for racing. Skills are super high, forces are super high, the mentality is always against the clock and what works for that. It affects every decision they make.
The rest of us ride around in the woods for shits and giggles. Theres a shiite load of variance in what that is, all of which are not racing. The only common factor I share with even moderate racers is that I have the same number of arms and legs.
Within limits, lower pressures give me more grip and better rolling resistance at pleb-riding© speeds. Since I'm generally slower and less skilled, why wouldn't I want an insert for a bit of insurance for when I screw it up? Or maybe its curiosity to see if they do what people tout, or maybe, I want to protect the investment into my carbon rims that I sold a kidney to afford?
Seems like a free choice to me. I won't be getting upset by people doing their own thing, and I won't screaming at WC riders to lower their pressures because they're not doing it right.
I tried one a while back in a back tyre (seemed like the best place for one?), and riding frequently in Calderdale, which can be pretty hard on tyres and the most noticeable thing [for me] was the dampening quality that it had. I took it out when I changed tyres and TBH it was hard to tell if it had done much to protect the rim - TBF it was second hand. I haven't felt the need to re-install it, and the world hasn't stopped spinning, so I probs don't need it.
I do similar sorts of riding to you, OP.
I have some of the lightweight XC style ones and have round that I can run a lighter tyre (which I wouldn't have in the past) and still have decent protection in terms of rims and pinches. I think all in it weighs about the same as a slightly heavier tyre with similar protection but the insert and lighter feels more supple and there for grippier - in an xc way, not rock smashing
Hardcore hardtails should come with them fitted to the rear as standard.
I ran one for a year or two. All good until I got pinch flats. It’s a right pain carrying a sealant covered insert like a rucksack if you can’t plug the hole and fit a tube. I went to DH casings and high 20s psi and haven’t had as many issues.
I remember Jack Moir saying he didn’t run them previously, though I think he does now.
I would say the most common issue on Maxxis tyres the one in the pic above ^
It really is, IME anyway.
I've been riding enduro tyres with Rimpact Pros and Schwalbe supergravity tyres without inserts on the rear this year, which included a couple of weeks in the Alps riding some very fast & rocky trails.
The verdict? Both approaches work well and feel similar, but I did cause a minor flat spot on one of the Supergravity-tyred wheels. I reckon the Rimpact might have prevented that.
I did a four-day ride (tour of mont blanc) and took wheels with Rimpact Pros front and rear, because I really didn't want to be fixing flats (and I didn't have to).
On my hardtail with an alloy rims an insert in the rear has been great for prolonging the life of the rim.
On my 'enduro' bike I do a lot of tyre swapping throughout the year based on trail conditions, where I'm riding and just experimenting with different tyres. I believe that running an insert lets me get away with a lighter tyre casing, so most of the time I run one in the rear. I'm not sure if I can put into words why I prefer lighter tyre plus insert, but I prefer it.
Even if I'm not flirting with a disaster trying to run the lightest tyre possible on the rear I still prefer having an insert in. I've tried running one in the front on a number of occasions and I just can't feel a benefit to justify it. I do put one in the front for uplifted riding holidays though to minimise the risk of punctures.
desperatebicycle
Free Member
Agree with those saying unnecessary. I’ve never felt the need – I had a hardtail ebike, where it was recommended by the manufacturer – I didn’t fit one and didn’t get any pinches (and hardtail eMTBs are damn hard on the rear wheel!)
On the other hand, my son, rides with his Uni club, constantly pushing themselves to do bigger jumps and drops, the insert has saved his riding. Was getting a pinch almost every ride and trashed 2 rear wheels in a few rides.
Did you just change your mind mid-post?
Nope, IMO.
Probably be called out as an ‘internet flex’ but I just run the appropriate tyre at a sensible pressure.
Tried one when at a particularly high speed, rocky venue when racing - for starters, I had the fight of my life to get it set up in the first place & couldn’t really notice any positives, so never bothered since.
doesnt sound like you need them , i've run rimpact on mtb for 3 years, mainly maxxis exo, never liked DD weight, had one ripped tyre in that time,
i've love to run maxxgrip everywhere but they dont last two mins in west yorkshire when you ride road/offroad/road/offroad in every ride.
on gravel bike 650b i like them, feels like riding on carpet compared to without, although the suspension fork helps too. ive ripped the tyre once, and was 3 miles from home so just peddled home on the flat tyre/insert :0)
Did you just change your mind mid-post?
Nah, just badly worded - "Unnecessary for the OP and riders of a similar ilk" is what I meant. Necessary for those of a more rad persuasion. Sometimes you gotta spell stuff out eh? 😛
feels like riding on carpet compared to without
That's how I described the Rimpacts to a mate on my first ride. It felt like having a layer of noise cancelling material everywhere.
Not everyone needs them and they're overkill for some riding. For me and my riding, I'm sticking with them.
I've had mixed success with them. I go through a phase of wanting to try them every now and then, and currently have the basic Rimpact fitted front and rear. I've had Rimpacts before, plus Nukeproof ARDs (not great) and the lightweight Effetto Mariposa one (pointless). I got these more for rim protection than anything else, as they don't stop cuts or punctures. Even then, I'm not sure how much they are actually doing that a realistic number of PSIs wouldn't do. If I impact my back wheel hard enough to dent it with my 100kg bulk, I doubt 10mm of foam is going to stop much.
Worth it? Dunno. I mean, it's unlikely you'll ever know when an insert has saved your ride, but when they do fail, you are left with the pain in the arse of a sealant-covered foam hulahoop to do something with. They are also a massive bawache generally: fitting, removal, particularly when changing tyres. The instructions helped a lot, but it's still an unnecessarily painful exercise. They absorb your sealant and often block your valves, even insert compatible valves, so you can't easily get air out.
Would I buy them again? Dunno. Maybe, in a couple of years, next time I become insert-curious, but I probably won't replace these immediately, once they are worn out.
desperatebicycle
Free Member
Did you just change your mind mid-post?Nah, just badly worded – “Unnecessary for the OP and riders of a similar ilk” is what I meant. Necessary for those of a more rad persuasion. Sometimes you gotta spell stuff out eh? 😛
Wouldn't be the first time someone on STW defeated themselves in an argument tbf.
I use them in the rear tyre of my full-sus and hardtail. Tyre pressures have always been sensible, the inserts just give me an extra bit of insurance against those unexpected hits (such as a particularly sharp g-out I hit a few weeks back)
I quite like them. They saved my made-of-cheese rims on my Levo from dying very quickly and stabilised my tyres that were too boingy/squirmy due to not enough sidewall stiffness for the tyre volume. I've kept using them with better rims and tyres because I like how calm they make things feel. When it's very wet and greasy I can drop the pressure to the high teens to find grip - in an ideal world I'd swap to stickier tyres but inserts suit my budget/laziness.
I've got the old Rimpacts in the front and the two layer newer ones (Pro?) in the back on both my Levo and my Moxie. The old ones are about 5 years old, have done thousands of miles!
Not all inserts are the same.
Side question..any value in an insert in a gravel bike tyre use on comparatively rough ( for a gravel bike) surfaces?
'Gravel' covers a variety of tyres these days from 29x2.2"-ish to 700x35C-ish and various points in between.
I've been wondering about inserts for my CX bike lately which is on wafer-thin walled 700x31c tyres that I keep feeling the need to put a wee bit more air in than strictly "required" because I just don't want a nadgery root to end a race early, sort of negating the benefits of a supple, tubeless tyre, but then an insert potentially negates the weight benefits...
What I really need to do is lose 10kg and stop putting those skinny tyres under so much stress.
But yeah I think an insert is most beneficial if you're running either skinnier, lower volume tyres and/or tyres without much material in the sidewalls.
I like them on my HT on the rear and I'd say give them a try if you're curious about them. I'd rather have one in the event that I smack in to something at 50km/h when tired towards the end of a ride if it means I can get home/pub on it without any air.
I'd imagine it would be difficult to communicate to random strangers just how rad I am without them, concealed as they are inside my tyre, but usually the one-pack I'm rocking, concealed inside my jersey, tells enough of a story.
Bloody hell. Some posters are really projecting with some of this stuff. It's just flipping bikes! 🙄 😀
If you ride your cyclocross bike out and about over the rocks (e.g. the Peak or the Dales) then inserts are game-changing, @cookeaa, probably the clearest use-case for them (I can take or leave them on my enduro bike). I have the zeal of a recent convert, but really impressed with not having to run silly pressures out on the cross bike on rockier tracks.
They're also brilliant for racing if your courses are on the rougher side. For the pure cross twistiness between the tapes, though, I've not gotten used to them, feel a bit weird at low pressure when you're turning in, like the tyre is too stiff. They seem pretty popular though, so it's prob just a case of a different feel.
I use them in the rear tyre of my full-sus and hardtail. Tyre pressures have always been sensible, the inserts just give me an extra bit of insurance against those unexpected hits (such as a particularly sharp g-out I hit a few weeks back)
I could comment about your lack of weight and that Gary doesn't run inserts... 🙂
Which has randomly reminded me I need to order a new brake lever for the hardtail!
I'm not a hardcore downhiller, but I don't dawdle, and I ride a FS where it's rocky. I have 27 PSI in my rear tyre which is a 2.5 and I haven't come close to feeling the rim.
I run harder pressures because the tyres are so slow - If I were running 20 I might tell a different story. I'm not sure I would want to go that low though due to drag.
Based on my experiences unless you are really pushing it on rough sections and/or are on a hardtail then don't bother. I can see how they'd be great on a gravel bike though.
I was surprised that inserts aren’t used more widely in World Cup DH
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-actual-weights-of-world-cup-dh-bikes-with-ed-masters.html
I’ve tried a couple. Quite like them, don’t like the faff. Have not continued to use them. But I don’t like a soft squirmy tyre even if the rim is protected by an insert so maybe I don’t get some of the potential advantages?
Agree with those saying unnecessary. I’ve never felt the need – I had a hardtail ebike, where it was recommended by the manufacturer – I didn’t fit one and didn’t get any pinches (and hardtail eMTBs are damn hard on the rear wheel!)
On the other hand, my son, rides with his Uni club, constantly pushing themselves to do bigger jumps and drops, the insert has saved his riding. Was getting a pinch almost every ride and trashed 2 rear wheels in a few rides.
l like this answer. I see why it got grief. But it shows the reality.
Shock horror some times there is a benefit to inserts, some things there isn’t.
l like this answer. I see why it got grief
Yeah, reading it back it was frickin obvious I was talking about different types of riding. Not sure why I did have to spell it out for one thicko 😂
Anyone wants to try some, of unknown quality, I bought the cheap Anaconda ones from on one, for 29ers, never going to use. I took the valves so its just the noodles. Pm if you want to collect from East Devon for free or cover postage (about a fiver as its impossible to get them in a small box).
Worth it? Different for everyone I suspect. If you have a problem that hasn’t been satisfactorily solved with tyre pressure changes or downhill casings then definitely worth a punt. <br /><br />
I used to destroy tyres on a stupidly regular basis and less commonly wheels. I also always struggled with the sweet spot of tyre pressure vs grip vs not knackering expensive stuff. Rimpact pro suit me, no more constantly messing about with pressures and tyres last as long as I would expect. The tyres just feel good for my riding. I have them on both bikes and after a bit of practice, it’s no real hassle to change a tyre. Like many things, it’s often worth trying stuff, some things you’ll like, some things you won’t, regardless of anyone else’s opinion. If nothing else, you’ll have stronger fingers after fitting them. 🙂
