[Closed] Turner DW rocker links worn out?

It used to be a common problem with DW bikes and I heard about it from a friend with an ironhorse sunday. We tried a few temporary fixes including shims and washers but in the end the frame is hanging up on the wall of his garage. The price of the new improved parts to fix it was not worth the bother and he bought a new frame instead.
On that bike it was a terrible bit of design. It was only ever going to end up with wear on the linkage.

I assume that the bearings/bushings have already been replaced and it's still moving?

The Sunday one was mad. The lower link just moved around the axle (if only to a very small degree) with no bush/bearing in between. If caught early wear could be slowed right down though by using a couple of o-rings

Yep, it had a strip done last week. I suppose short, stiff linkages are always going to be subject to some high forces at the pivots.

It's not something I experienced on the horst link I had before.

Washers you say? Hmmm. They'll have to be pretty specialist.

My mates has. The kit to fix it up is 150 us dollars plus shipping and tax es or 14o UK pounds at silver fish

No one has stock though !

Answers on a postcard

It's now £170 at silverfish, but like you said no stock 'for at least six Weeks's is what they just told me. Brill.

I'm planning on running this for at least a couple of years, so I'll probably replace them when they're available.

We cut some shims out of a milk bottle that worked for a while. Might be worth a go. The annoying part is that when you look at the design you could tell it was inevitable.

Yep, I replaced them in my 26" flux. The rockers basically had deep groves from the pivot hardware.
If they fit, I think I've got the replacement rockers I took off last summer when the top tube cracked :(.

Hi Sam. I'll make some enquiries and find out. I assume it's a DW one? How old would the rockers be?

I've just tended to my Flux and Czar.

I purchased quite a few of igus bushes direct so I could deal with this.

The Czar sometimes needs a shim on the clevis (top pivot). As did my flux.

The DW area because of its greater torque seems to wear the bush. So I just replaced the bush on the lower linkage - this took up the slack.

So far two wear and tear problems that are relatively solvable. The trouble is you have to try and figure it out by trial and error. A full kit usually contains a shim or two for the clevis bush.

My Czar has done 8000 miles the flux 6000.

It's wise to take the bushes apart every now and again to grease up properly.

I guess this is why they've swapped to bearings.

Incidentally I can't source the shims from anywhere, any ideas?

Yep dw rockers. I think they had about a year to 18 month's use. I'll check the shed later to confirm I've still got them. I can always ping you some pictures.

Not to say it will never be a linkage, but in my case I've never gone down that route. I've always replaced bushes or the pivot itself and/or shimmed.

What id and od size shims?

I went from an 2009 5spot raw to a 2011 5spot anodised and I have had problems with the 11 frame, as the anodising creates less tolerance and hence more friction on the bushes.
I ended up taking some of the material off the bush, on the frame contact side to get them to fit/work better. Initially there was that much resistance the pivots would not move without excessive force.
Also agree with the regular strip down, as sometimes the grease doesn't fully reach all parts of the pivot shafts, which allows rapid wear of the pivot shafts.

What id and od size shims?

I did measure it all but forgot.

Will check them in a Mo.

Shim for clevis and main pivot: OD 23.5mm ID 16mm.

Thickness, tricky. 0.1mm

Thx

Thickness of the shim will be dependant on the amount of wear I guess?

Shims was something that DT mentioned when I spoke to him. They're intended to sit behind the shoulder of the igus bushes so they're a tiny bit proud of the frame and take up the slack. To make that happen, the shims would have the OD of the bushes shoulder, and the ID of the section that goes into the frame.

I checked the rocker tip pivots (seat stay attachment) last night, and they have lateral play too.

I'm going to be cutting alot of bushes if Sam's rockers don't fit!

My Sultan is also ano and I identified the tight bush problem fairly early. Instead of nibbling material of the bush, I used a piece of dowel wrapped in some fine wet and dry sandpaper to take the ano off the pivot bore.

I got some off eBay for a similar problem I had with a frame a while ago that might work, I'll have a check when I get home tomorrow, I'm on a 24hour shift at the mo,

Thanks Khani.

I ordered them from Turner USA. Took 2 weeks to arrive and cost £100.

Thickness of the shim will be dependant on the amount of wear I guess?

Yes to en extent but turner's shims that are provide in the kits tend to be the same in my experience for a few bikes But it would be good to source a range of shims.

To make that happen, the shims would have the OD of the bushes shoulder, and the ID of the section that goes into the frame.

Yes, as long as it's a bit bigger than the ID of the bush then you're good to go.

I've got all three IGUS cat. numbers if anyone wants to get them direct. The Czar and Flux certainly share bushes, not sure about the sultan - I've a feeling it may be a chunkier set-up, but not 100%.

Like I said earlier there appears to be two problems, one of the issues may not be wear and tear as such but less than perfect fitting and that is my experience of the clevis, hence the shim. The shims are provided with the full kits.

In the DW's case a new bush sufficed.

I've never, ever seen a shim in a kit since 2005. Do you have a picture?

The Sultan is no beefier. It shares all the same parts.

Just got a pic, id is 15mm, od is 24mm and less than 1mm thick but I don't know exactly
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I've got a couple or four spare I can post if needed

I've never, ever seen a shim in a kit since 2005. Do you have a picture?

As above, my measurements concur.

The shims were included in the new one piece rocker kit for the Flux, Czar etc. I was aware of the shims from the discussions on MTBR and then I got a replacement pivot set for my czar as there were a few early issues with fit, so Turner set me the bits. Greg confirmed they were part of the kits when I ordered the one-piece DW. I've pestered them for purchasing shims but never got anywhere.

I measure everything with my calipers so was able to match the bushes.

I've got a couple or four spare I can post if needed

I wouldn't want to eat into your stash but do you have a link where you ordered form - many thanks!

I got em a few years ago off eBay for a couple of quid for a sheet of twenty
I'll have a search when I'm home tomoz..

It can be tricky nailing where the play is: so drop the rear wheel off and the shock top bolt.

You can usually see the wiggle in the Rocker Tip area moving by grabbing the seat stay and pushing around. Fix those first with a shim - on mine it was only actually one side - the right hand side. I've fixed three Turners in this area with a shim.

When you've sorted that, it's worth checking the Main Pivot so whilst the Rocker tip bolts are out you can check for side to side play there, again I fixed with a shim.

Finally when you've got the Rocker Tip Bolts and Main Pivots free of play and tightened up, check for movement in the DW-LINK itself. Tricky to work out which bush but a bit of tightning and loosening allows you see where movement is. Whip out the bolt and hardware and put in a new bush. Again the right hand side seems to be suspect. At this point I realised the shims included didn't fit the DW-LINK area. So luckily just a new bush solved it.

This is the order I did it in, wear (or poor fit) almost certainly occurs on the Rocker Tip initially. Between myself and a few mates, 4/5 bikes have had shims here. All good now.

Here is a picture I used for reference

Interestingly I and GF have a pair of fluxs and czars, none of hers have had issues at all. So I'm putting it down to my added weight and extra male testosterone creating more havoc!

I'm put out now. I bought the mono link kit last year and there were no shims in it.
Khani, looking forward to receiving your eBay link...

I got mine recently - maybe after lots of feedback they included them? And I do know of one case where the kit was fitted and it didn't need a shim on the Rocker Tip - but I could do with seeing if the play came back on that one.

I think you're probably right about the weight thing rone. I'm a chap of 'greater than average mass' and the Sultan gets used anywhere big and rocky. Clearly the loads go up when cornering and the Sultan is not the stiffest of bikes.

I've emailed Turner to find out about Sam's flux rockers and these bushes. I'll report back.

I replaced the rockers on my old Dw 5 spot same problem wear on inside of main pivot point.
Bought rockers direct from USA cheaper than UK
Emailed Turner at the time DT spoke about shims but but they hadnt produced any then, but it was a few years ago.

Ncb it's yor old 5 spot my mate has ....it's been well used since then 🙂

I'm back, with no link as I must have bought em before 2014 as that's as far as my Ebay purchase history goes, sorry chaps..
I'll go and rummage round the garage and see how many I've got going spare..

Curses! Never mind. No response back from Turner yet.

Just so you know - it is the weekend in the USA as well, so people who work might not be at work.
Turner were excellent when I asked them about bushings etc. It took a couple of days but I had a phone call and they were ultra-helpful.

Tbh too tall. My mate emailed them 2 weeks ago. All that happened was the price went up and the stock went to out of stock on the web page.

No reply yet which is contrary to their normally exemplary service which was why I suggested he buy ncbs bike

they were from Pheonix marine electrics and bought in Feb 2013. Just found the invoice in the garage,
Got four going if you want em Scienceofficer?

[url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-x-Shims-192438-Alternator-Pulley-Spacer-Shim-to-Fit-15mm-Shaft-0-5-Thick-/281255914705?hash=item417c28acd1:m:mt7cu-TtUVuPGXkJPKWVFxw ]Aha![/url]

You sir, are a gent!

You're welcome, 😀

Great stuff.

I got the shims.

I unfortunately the ID is too small, probably by 1mm. They're a bit thicker than the turner ones too.

They need to be 16mm I'm sure.

Will contact the chap.

Bugger. I ordered some yesterday. I have a lakes weekend at the end of the month so I'll probably dremel out the ID abit.

Currently in discussion with Turner about shims and rocker stock, which is currently absent.

So just shimmed up my main pivot on the Czar. Much better but still leaves the top rocker with play so I'm out of official shims with 16mm ID.

This is my worry. Turner want pictures of my rockers to judge whether shimming is worth it, so I'll include ticket tip pictures too and see what they say.

If you shim behind the bush on it's insertion, is the wear into the rocker not going to continue as the bush just gets pushed further and further out?

I just cut up some margarine tub washers and used them to fill in the ring that had worn into the rockers. Hopefully next service I'll peel them out and replace, they have felt fine for about year to date.

Yeah but I'm looking at 0.1mm wear in 8000 miles. Just put a bigger one in?

[url= http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Baotian-BTM-BT49QT-20-50cc-2T-Variator-Shim-Speed-Up-Set-16mm-/301070072611?txnId=1270872162020 ]these have done the trick[/url]

My rocker tip still had a bit of play so took a punt the above. Best size I could get with three different thicknesses. 0.1/0.2/0.5

The 0.2 has gone in and seemed to work.

Thanks Rone, and hello. Re. Pines on Friday. 🙂

So, things have crept forward a little. These have turned up.
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They're virtually the same as the ones rone has got, but the OD on these is only 21mm, so I have hopes they will do both the main rocker pivot and the rocker tips too, where space is a bit more difficult.

Rebuilding over the next couple of days so I'll let you know how I get on.

All still good on mine. The fact that the OD is a bit smaller than the 23.5mm of the original shim doesn't seem to have caused an issue as it's still big enough to keep the bush/top-hat proud.

Few rides on mine - zero play.

There will be a point when you may need new hardware (my mates rocker has actually cracked but he could've shimmed from the start and it may have prevented undo movement.)

Yeah, this is a band aid only, but my conversation with DT suggests that it's one that you can expect to last a reasonably decent length of time.

In fact, I basically put off sending him pictures in preference for riding, to which he said, it's not going to get worse quickly if you ride it with a bit of play in the system.

Sooo, that was educational.

Main rocker links worn by 0.4mm on the main pivot, and rocker tips by 0.3mm.

Front DW pivot worn by 0.4mm too. But the rear one is fine. Disappointing here, since it was a new mono link a year ago.

Calling Sam_underhill. I'm desperate for a pair of Flux 26" rockers, either Std or upgraded. the LHS one is cracked and my lovely Turner can't be ridden anymore.... Booo Hoooo. Do you still have rockers?