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Strictly speaking, I am not and never have been, in the market for an e-bike. But...one of these has appeared in my LBS and made my head wobble a bit.
It's this model... specialized.com/gb/en/turbo-levo-sl-2-ohlins-coil
And it looks like this...
I've been totally ignoring e-bike tech and I've never ridden one off road. I'm not sure how the Levo SL 2 stacks up against the competition. I can't see any reviews of this particular model and all the Levo SL articles and videos are glowing advertorials.
This one is reduced to 6k. I can get a bit of additional discount so closer to 5.5k. It's almost the price a regular bike would be with this spec.
If you've read anything I've posted in the last 2 years you know I'm a sucker for the Swedish Gold. It's got proper DH brakes, decent wheels, decent bar and stem, posh Bikeyoke seatpost, even the grips are quality Deity items. I literally wouldn't change a thing.
It would be just the thing for scooting around with my knackered hip. I'd rather have the lighter bike than mega power and a huge battery. I'd use it mostly for laps of fun venues like Wharny and Win Will not huge days in the backcountry. I want a fun bike that handles rather then a big tank of a thing. It'll get me back out on the local group rides which have gone 100% electric.
The big plus side is that it would get the Mrs back out riding. She's not a serious rider but she used to really enjoy it before Junior came along. Now it's so infrequent that it's just painful. My current bikes are way too big for her, this Levo is a lot shorter in the cockpit and she looked very comfy on it yesterday.
I live right next to the dealer so during any breakdowns I'd be able to drop it off and let them worry about it.
There must be a downside other than the chunk of money it'll cost me. I'm blinded by how cool the bike looks so feel free to talk me out of it. Horror stories welcome.
I'm not seeing a downside unless you're planning on trying to chase a bunch of full power bikes.
I'm not seeing a downside unless you're planning on trying to chase a bunch of full power bikes.
I can count on one hand the number of times this has been an issue for me and everyone else I ride with is on full fat bikes. The difference between me, reasonably fit, on my SL, and slightly less fit people on full fat bikes is minimal, and we tend to deplete our batteries at about the same rate.
Its also definitely less than the typical range of fitness you get in any riding group anyway. And if your mates all dissapear off the top by riding turbo everywhere and not waiting for you, they are not your mates anyway they are *****.
I bought a range extender thinking I was going to be running out of range all the time but truthfully I barely use it.
However they all comment on how easy my bike is to pick up, i regularly sling it over stiles and gates, i can wheel it into the van like a normal bike, and it rides, to all intents and purposes, like a Stumpjumper. Its also very nice when going over the motor cutout, there is zero drag or noise from the SL1.2 motor. Mine is the Comp Carbon with various upgrades and Fox Factory - the Ohlin spec bike will be absolutely delightful.
I have no intention of racing around trying to keep up with full power bikes. I'd be happy with a sweet handling bike which can push me up the hills a little so I can do more runs of the stuff I enjoy instead of 'one and done' to conserve energy.
I don't know how much it weighs but in the hand it felt comparable to some DH bikes.
Mines 19kg, that should be about the same - feels just like my old DH bikes, yes.
OP, from your post, just go and buy it and report back on monday how it rode over the weekend...
The reliability of my KSL SL2 was pretty poor, 400/600/0.3 miles. Spesh/Certini sorted it out, but was a little slow at times.
Borrowed a mates Levo SL2, he had much better reliability with his. Cracking bike, very agile and would have one if it wasn't for the bad reliability.
My Vala weighs the same as a Levo SL2 with a range extender and can get far greater range at a higher assistance level. Gen3 Levo is very similar in weight and range....
Gen3 Levo is very similar in weight and range....
I have the S-Works G3 - so carbon rims/cranks/bars. I think claimed weight is 22kg - mine came in at 23kg with big pedals, alu bars and cushcore x2
If you don’t ride any other ebike you will think it’s bloody brilliant
If demo other bikes you may change your mind
I test rode various e-bikes a couple of years back, including the Levo SL v1
The Levo was the best handling bike (not by much) but had by far the worst motor and battery, and because I was buying an ebike it wasn’t worth the compromise
The motor has changed in the Levo 2 but is still low on power, but the battery is still very small
At leaset with 85nm and 630wh battery I can decide whether to go for a ride where I work hard or just go out for a ride for fun
Would you have to wear a puffa jacket to ride it though?
I might not get too excited and try to ride something before I commit to it. We were planning to rent a Spesh e-bike in Durham next month for a day at Hamsterley so might go through with that first. I'll know from the look on her face if we're buying one.
The other bike I like is the Vala. The reviews make it sound like the kind of bike I'm after (prioritising handling over huge batteries) but they're much more expensive to buy. They're at least 2k more and the spec pales in comparison. I'd quite happily never ride Rock Shox or Fox suspension or Shimano or SRAM brakes ever again.
If you've read anything I've posted in the last 2 years you know I'm a sucker for the Swedish Gold.
😀
Nope, I can't talk you out of that. Many similarities with the SC Heckler SL that I've now ridden a good amount: same travel, slightly lower torque and battery capacity, better specced for equivalent money, near identical weight. If this Spesh rides anything like my Heckler then I think they're a good option.
Merlin doing the Heckler SL model I have for £5.5k but suspension especially isn't a patch on the Ohlins I imagine.
The other bike I like is the Vala. The reviews make it sound like the kind of bike I'm after (prioritising handling over huge batteries) but they're much more expensive to buy. They're at least 2k more and the spec pales in comparison. I'd quite happily never ride Rock Shox or Fox suspension or Shimano or SRAM brakes ever again.
I replied above mentioning the Heckler SL before you posted this. Vala would've been my choice over my Heckler SL, but it was Vala at retail vs Heckler SL at 40%+ off (£4.3k) so it wasn't ever a serious option. Stuck a (now creaky) Mezzer Pro in place of the Lyrik and swapped brakes/wheels/everything to my spec before turning a wheel. Downsides to being a fussy git.
The other bike I like is the Vala. The reviews make it sound like the kind of bike I'm after (prioritising handling over huge batteries) but they're much more expensive to buy. They're at least 2k more and the spec pales in comparison. I'd quite happily never ride Rock Shox or Fox suspension or Shimano or SRAM brakes ever again.
I'm super impressed with my Vala, nothing on the market I would replace it with. 5000ft and 30 miles out of the main battery in Trail mode, chuck a range extender on and you have another 2000ft.
19.6kg ‘officially’ so add the pedals, and assume is not a small frame, sealant, etc it’s going to be at least 20.5kg in the real world.
For a bike with a noisy, unreliable, weedy motor & a 320w/h battery.
At least it’s got decent tyres on it, rather than tracing paper thin ones.
I can’t see any reason I would buy this over a Vala/Regulator/Elyte, all at a similar weight.
I can’t see any reason I would buy this over a Vala/Regulator/Elyte, all at a similar weight.
£5500 vs £6700 for the cheapest carbon Vala with crap brakes, basic suspension and throwaway NX drivetrain. The Vala 90 looks alright but it's £7700. i.e. not an option.
I’d rather have a fundamentally better bike with something like the Elyte at a similar price than a (slightly harsh) pig rolled in glitter.
You can change the spec over time, but you can’t change the motor/battery deficiencies, no matter what the price.
What are the motor/battery deficiencies?
Genuinely interested. I'm struggling to find any negative reviews of the new frame and motor combo.
I have one. I like it. But then I only paid £1900 for it..
I’d rather have a fundamentally better bike with something like the Elyte at a similar price than a (slightly harsh) pig rolled in glitter.
You can change the spec over time, but you can’t change the motor/battery deficiencies, no matter what the price.
Whyte Elyte is let down by the small battery, otherwise would of considered it, as the spec and after sales is spot on.
What are the motor/battery deficiencies?
Genuinely interested. I'm struggling to find any negative reviews of the new frame and motor combo.
Noisy (up and down), small battery before the power upgrade, now highlights it even more. Not great reliability, etc.
I wasn’t in the market for an ebike until all my friends got one. I thought an sl would be perfect but they talked me into getting a full power big battery one and it’s the right choice.
You seem to have a riding style similar to me (I also have an edit) and the bigger battery and motor allows a lot more descending for less effort. It’s fun.
I got a Mondraker crafty xr, also ohlins equipped and usually on sale.
What are the motor/battery deficiencies?
Battery < 400wh your doing 15/20 miles max . Even the blokes at specialised said to me you really need a range extender, which then adds 1.5/2kg and a world of faff.
Hopefully the new motor is improved, but v 1 was that weak it had 3 settings which were almost indistinguishable in power and ranged from not much to not much
Most of the rides on my ebike are now 30-40miles, enjoying the good bits and using 85nm on the boring climbs. You just couldn’t do that on a Levo
My longest ride so far was 48 miles. That was on a low power setting ie Levo style. I did at that point wish I was on an analogue bike because the whole point of e-bikes is that they allow more fun
Choose based on battery, motor, geo not components as the first 3 can’t be changed and will have you regretting your decision each time you get on the bike
My mate has the SL 2 carbon comp. I love riding it, it's awesome. It climbs pretty fast, my rides are about 50% further than on an analogue in a given time.
I have a much heavier alu Turbo Levo. It's not quite as nice to ride as the SL, but I get double the ride distance in a given time - even more for winch and plummet laps. I have to ride in economy when I'm with my mate on the SL. His battery drains when I'm at 55%.
I'd be happy owning either.
My tuppeneth, having rented a nicely specced SL for a day up the Golfie and now own a Gen 3 Levo. I preferred the handling of the lighter bike although think it would have even better with a mullet set up.
I can't comment on the reliability of the SL but didn't notice the noise and as you say, you have a dealer next door and other bikes to ride. I presume like the motor in my Gen 3 yours will also be rebuildable by 3rd party's once out of warranty and then better than new.
On our day up the Golfie with the range extender I started the day with 150%. As the second full fat hit red my bike still had 42%.
For reference, I only weigh 76kg and ride with a reasonably high cadence and kept it in Eco apart from steep sections. This included me doing a timed climb from the golf club to TVA turn off with a big grin on my face 🙂
I've been riding the Levo all summer and even on a big fast morning locally with a mate on an Amflow I still only hit 20% battery (he was on 11%). Most of my riding is on my own as I am off two days through the week and I rarely use more that 50-60%.
So, I'd buy the lighter bike with better suspension and mullet it if it isn't already...
If that sounds like I have buyers remorse, I don't, I love the big daft ugly thing. I just accept it's limitations. It makes everything from sessioning Wharncliffe to big old XC rides and exploring new area's great fun but I'll be taking my Airdrop to Inners and the Golfie in October because ultimately, for me, it's more confidence inspiring when things get steeper and faster.
I’ve had mine for almost 2 years and love it. It handles like an ordinary bike (my VP Free was a chunk heavier) and I just ride further, faster, more often than I could before.
Can easily get 25 miles and 750m of climbing and still have 30% battery left, not using the range extender. Have tweaked the power settings to 25/25 in Eco, 50/50 in Trail which I use the most, and 80/80 in Turbo.
If you ride it back to back with a full fat ebike it will feel under-powered though, but it’s a fair bit lighter and hence handles better imo.
I have 2kg wheels and run it 29” front and back, and it’s just under 20kg in size S4 (large in old money).
Been completely reliable as has the wife’s. We’ve put 4500 miles on them in 21 months.
I think for most people, if they're going ebike theyre probably better off with a full fat ebike , but there is a relatively small number of people who suit/want an SL ebike. If you're one of those then I reckon the specialized SL bikes are a decent choice - i'd go for the kenevo sl2 though, not the levo.
A side benefit of the specialzed SL range of bikes (and any bike with the TQ HPR system) is that the range extender battery is small enough (160wh) to be taken on a plane and the bike can be run solely on the range extender, so you can remove the internal battery and fly with the bike and range extender battery - a bit of a fringe/niche benefit, but one I use with my trek fuel exe.
Does a 320wh battery give you less range than, sya, 800wh, all things being equal? Well yes, that is obvious.
But:
What are the motor/battery deficiencies?
Battery < 400wh your doing 15/20 miles max . Even the blokes at specialised said to me you really need a range extender, which then adds 1.5/2kg and a world of faff.
Is rubbish, hearsay, purely subjective nonsense.
etc etc..
Most of those will have been done with mates riding Bosch CX powered Cubes with, I think, 720wh batteries.
Statements like "Battery < 400wh your doing 15/20 miles max" is like comparing MPG with someone who has the same car but its done 100k more miles, lives in a different country and drives to work at a different time on different roads in different weather.
Thanks for all the input folks. My impulse purchase frenzy has cooled down now but I still haven't gone off the bike.
Firstly, all of my rides are sub 20 miles usually! I haven't ridden over 20 miles for fun in probably 20 years. We usually go to a place with fun trails and just ride around. I like hunting for steep stuff and ruts and slapping berms. If I need a big day out with no range anxiety I'm more than happy to jump on my 29er trail bike.
The range extender is on sale at the same shop with 20% off so could potentially grab that if I feel like I need it.
The bike is very adaptable. It has adjustable chainstay length, BB height, reach, head angle and can be run mullet or 29er. It comes as a mullet but I already have a very nice 29er wheelset with an XD driver and fast tyres which would fit right in.
Ohlins springs are 30-40 quid all day on marketplace so I can grab one that suits the wife who is around 25kg lighter than I am. I don't mind switching that out for weekends or holidays when she'll be riding it the whole time.
As a bonus I have every Monday and Friday off work and Junior has just started school! So suddenly I'm riding more during the week, usually solo. I plan to maximise this situation until I'm forced back into full time employment.
So, yeah. I'm not going to rush out and grab it yet but it's still very much on the radar. I'm looking at all the alternatives and there are some very, very expensive bikes which are not as desirable as this one. To me anyway.
I'm absolutely 100% in agreement with Hobnob here... The limitations with the Levo SL motor/battery system are many, too much to now consider worth buying any more... Had they upped the battery capacity to 4-500wh capacity at the same time that they went from 35 to 50Nm then it wouldn't be so bad, but in upgrading the torque but not the battery capacity they effectively said to customers "here's the torque increase you need to keep up with your mates now, but don't use it or you'll run out of battery much sooner than they will"...
Of course, ridden in isolation, a Levo SL will be a great bike if you've never ridden another eBike, and would otherwise be considering a Specialized Stumpjumper anyway... The problem comes if you ever ride another eBike... Or ever ride with others on other eBikes... The Levo SL is basically the modern equivalent of Singlespeeding in the 2000's when it comes to social rides... Those people that just have to make things harder for themselves on purpose and for no discernible reason yet will constantly go on about the benefits of it, but everybody else has to modify/adjust/cut short their ride to suit the limitations of those on the Singlespeeds/Levo SL...
I know one person (she is on here to be fair) with a Levo SL that loves it... But she's about 55kg wringing wet, and fit as a butcher's dog... She really doesn't need much assistance, in fact doesn't actually need any most of the time. The Levo SL is ideal for her, she's not carrying around extra bike or battery that those of us that weigh the best part of 40kg more need realistically... Everyone else I know with a Levo SL (or likewise Kenevo SL) is constantly wishing for that bit more grunt, that bit more battery capacity, or that they'd just bought a bike with a Bosch SX/Fazua Ride 60/TQ HPR60/EP8 RS motor instead (or even a full fat, but just slimmed the build down)...
There are some great bikes out there for bargain prices currently with those motors I've just listed above fitted already... They won't come with £2k of Ohlins suspension fitted for sure, but that's easy to change (and in fact, I ride custom tuned 38's over an Ohlins RXF38 fork out of preference anyway, and an EXT Storia shock, good suspension doesn't need to be painted yellow and gold!)...
The range extender is on sale at the same shop with 20% off so could potentially grab that if I feel like I need it.
Removes the ability to run a bottle on the bike though... BIG no no for me on a bike these days, especially one I want to ride for more than an hour...
The bike is very adaptable. It has adjustable chainstay length, BB height, reach, head angle and can be run mullet or 29er.
Why though...? Strikes me that Spesh were trying to be all things to all people with it, and arguably not really getting it spot on for anyone... My Canyon Neuron Onfly that I picked up the other week has better geometry out of the box (non adjustable), full 29er (I don't want mullet and on a mid travel trail bike), cost half as much (lower spec yes but easily upgraded) and has the Bosch SX motor and 400Wh battery in already... My mate with a high bling Levo SL S-Works custom build is jealous of it cos of the motor/battery!
So, yeah. I'm not going to rush out and grab it yet but it's still very much on the radar. I'm looking at all the alternatives and there are some very, very expensive bikes which are not as desirable as this one.
And there's some much better bikes out there for much lower prices that you're almost certainly ignoring because they don't hit the Ohlins/Bling factor for you... I have owned or ridden pretty much all of the top end forks and shocks from various manufacturers in the last few years... I'd take custom tuned (to my weight and riding style) Fox over off the shelf Ohlins every time personally!
looks like i need to put some weight on, start soft pedalling and stop enjoying mine. 😉
My whole riding group is KSLs and we love them. We all owned full fat bikes before (some of us still do) but none of them ride as nicely, even Mr Moneybag's Vala which he bought after already owning a KSL and an LSL2. My Rail is an absolute tank in comparison and my KSL, like me, is no lightweight. Would I like more power or more range or more both out of the KSL? Of course I would; I'm lazy, but not if it effects the handling.
Would I like more power or more range or more both out of the KSL? Of course I would; I'm lazy, but not if it effects the handling.
With a little bit of bias cos I own one, I kinda think Spesh got it right with the G3 full fat Levo. Not overly heavy (a couple of kg more than the KSL depending on spec), 700wh battery, 90Nm, handles well - probably why they are so popular.
Obviously with the G4 they upped the power and battery but also the weight - lots of reports of the range getting hammered with the extra power too. Owners would have you believe that it's light years ahead with the handling over the G3, but I think that might be a bit of new owners bias. Maybe. I've not ridden one, so can't really say.
That said, my ancient FF G1 Kenevo comes in at 28kg in it's current build and I still love riding that
looks like i need to put some weight on, start soft pedalling and stop enjoying mine. 😉
For £1900, I'd say you've done alright to be fair... Certainly not sure what you'd have got better for the price! At the kind of money the OP is looking at spending, there's plenty of better alternatives...
My whole riding group is KSLs and we love them.
Aside from the fact that if everyone is on the same bike, you're going to have a lot of fun anyway (pop along to the UK Singlespeed champs for evidence of said phenomenon!), there is also the fact that the KSL is pretty much universally recognised as a pretty banging long travel Enduro bike in its own right even ignoring the 4kg of motor and battery penalty over a regular Enduro bike... The Gen2 Levo SL is a bit meh, kind've in a middle ground where it's neither one thing nor the other, and I know of at least 2 people that preferred their Gen1 LSL's because they were lighter and more flowy trail friendly than the Gen2's they upgraded to...
For genuine "winch and plummet" riding, the KSL is an awesome choice... In fact, the only thing that would improve it really would be a more modern battery (modern cells would equate to 400Wh+ from the same number of cells that make up that 320Wh battery). It's effectively a self uplift bike or an Enduro bike that allows you to just get more trails in for a given effort, and if all my mates were on them I'd be super happy on one too... But you need to be VERY fit and strong to contemplate keeping up with friends on full fat eBikes on one on anything uphill.
Well now I'm just confused. Passionate arguments on both sides.
From what I can gather the LSL is a fun, lightweight, sweet handling trail bike that is a joy to ride and gets glowing reviews. The only downside is that I'll get dropped on the climbs by FF bikes. At 98kg kitted up I might be too heavy for it.
I'll probably spend most of my time riding behind it anyway while the wife drops me on my old fashioned, manual bike. I'll be fitter than ever.
For £1900, I'd say you've done alright to be fair... Certainly not sure what you'd have got better for the price! At the kind of money the OP is looking at spending, there's plenty of better alternatives...
You keep saying this but I'm looking around. With a limit of £5500 what is better than the heavily discounted LSL? I definitely want a mullet or the ability to run both and I don't want to go on 50 mile backcountry missions.
I'm not married to the Levo so if there's something better, for what I intend to use it for, I'll consider it. I'm trying to avoid a very heavy bike with a downtube like a tree trunk, but I also don't want "a pig rolled in glitter".
Maybe I should chill out for a month and hope for some black Friday sales.
I rode my mate's LSL2 at Bikepark Klinovec in Czech last summer and it surprised me with just how capable it was. It's a Comp Carbon with Lyric Ultimates and it took everything my fat arse could throw at it. A fully Ohlins spec bike would be even better.
At 98kg kitted up I might be too heavy for it.
You're not, ask me how I know...
Ride some demo bikes and see.
I`m glad i got a lighter eeb. mine has a small battery but its perfect for what i need (2hr rides) with the occasional longer ride with a range extender.
If i could justify myself a new eeb i`d probably buy that specialized.
Dont overthink it, go pick up the Ohlins equipped shredding machine and enjoy it in the forest and dont read too much more into it!
This thread has nearly made me to want and go get one...
I agree with oikeith, just go buy the nice bike from the local shop and have a great time on it.
It’s too easy to get bogged down with spreadsheets and comparisons with regular bikes, once you factor in the motors on e-bikes it far too easy to get buyer’s paralysis.
The fact of the matter is that you like the look of this bike, you like the spec of this bike and it will put lots of smiles on your face (and hopefully your wife’s as well).
We can all tell you what we think is best, but we’re not you.
Spesh have been decent about warranties on motors, it’s from a local shop and it’s in the second best colour scheme (black/red for the win😉).
Life’s too short, just buy the bike.
Dont overthink it, go pick up the Ohlins equipped shredding machine and enjoy it in the forest and dont read too much more into it!
But he will every time other ebike riders fly past
my 630wh battery means that I’m knackered before I run out of batter. With roughly half that battery I’d be pissed off id run out of battery
Well now I'm just confused. Passionate arguments on both sides.
From what I can gather the LSL is a fun, lightweight, sweet handling trail bike that is a joy to ride and gets glowing reviews. The only downside is that I'll get dropped on the climbs by FF bikes. At 98kg kitted up I might be too heavy for it.
I'll probably spend most of my time riding behind it anyway while the wife drops me on my old fashioned, manual bike. I'll be fitter than ever.
For £1900, I'd say you've done alright to be fair... Certainly not sure what you'd have got better for the price! At the kind of money the OP is looking at spending, there's plenty of better alternatives...
You keep saying this but I'm looking around. With a limit of £5500 what is better than the heavily discounted LSL? I definitely want a mullet or the ability to run both and I don't want to go on 50 mile backcountry missions.
I'm not married to the Levo so if there's something better, for what I intend to use it for, I'll consider it. I'm trying to avoid a very heavy bike with a downtube like a tree trunk, but I also don't want "a pig rolled in glitter".
Maybe I should chill out for a month and hope for some black Friday sales.
2 of these 😀
I bought the 2024 Carbon Expert earlier this year, I didn't want the full assist of a normal ebike as it's too tempting to use it, I wanted something where I was forced to put some effort in to get the range.
I also test rode a Amflow which was fun but too much power. I might end up with a full power one later and alternate between them.
I also needed to be able to lift the bike over some forest gates I come across, and the Amflow was just too heavy to be sure of being able to do that without damage at the closing stages of a ride.
I don't find it noisy - maybe so at lower cadences but then for efficiency you should be aiming for higher cadences. I have tinitus/hyperaccusis so if it was noisy I would notice it. However I would probably find the clattering on other ebike motors on downhills annoying.
I got the specialized as the support is good and the frame has a lifetime warranty for the original owner. Once the motor is out of warranty specialized are good as discounting repair/replaceemnt prices up to 5 years, and then will still sell you a motor.
I thought about an Orbea but their support seems to be very wanting from what I've seen.
I haven't got it set up right, seems to need a lot more tweaking than my dw-link Turners with Pikes every did. But it basically feels like a normal bike, I normally ride with the range extender on but once I am happy with the range for the routes I do I might leave it off.
I did find that I had to change the cranks - the stock ones are 170mm and that seems too long, so I've changed to 155mm which seems good and as high cadence is preferable the shorter length is good. 170mm gave me too many pedal strike which is unnerving and also bad for the motor.
The crank change is easy and cheap if you go for the Specialized cranks that are for the kids size of the Levo SL - something around £100.
cheap if you go for the Specialized cranks that are for the kids size of the Levo SL - something around £100.
That is a top tip. I was only aware of the Hope cranks in that size. There's also a Levo O-Chain available but that's something for much later!
This is the most recent video I've watched featuring that Will bloke who used to work here. It's the same as all the others but he rattles through it pretty quickly with minimal waffling. He summarises by saying it's the "most fun, best performing, lightweight e-bike I've ever tested".
So the only downside I can find anywhere, from anyone, is that big, heavy, ugly-as-sin, FF bikes will go up hills faster.
I can't do anything about it this week anyway, I'm stuck at work now.
So the only downside I can find anywhere, from anyone, is that big, heavy, ugly-as-sin, FF bikes will go up hills faster.
Pretty much. To add further to the SL vs FF debate, I'm firmly on the SL side. I want an ebike that handles and rides like a normal bike. I've had limited experience on a FF 26kg Bosch-powered ebike and the weight ruined the ride for me. FF ebikes are getting lighter but there wasn't anything like my 20.5kg SL available (and in my budget) when I bought my Heckler SL.
I would provide some advice but when I'm not riding my Levo I have a lot of fun riding my singlespeed Moxie!
However my Levo is the technically outdated Gen 2 version. It was the cheap one which only had a 500Whr battery to start, and that battery claims to be at 90% health (but I suspect less) after what must be about 500 charges (it had a motor change two and bit years in which reset the data). The geometry is arguably too short and not slack/steep enough. It has a comically tiny inline shock (now delivering 157mm travel) and a bigger-than-approved 170mm Fox 38. It has huge mudguards which makes it look even worse. It definitely doesn't handle like a normal bike, although it's not crazy heavy (24.5kg plus the mudguards).
I have so much fun riding it! (I haven't ridden any other ebikes and am not planning to - and I very rarely go on ebike-only group rides).
2 of these
I know you're a fan weeksy, so don't take it personally. I just find Treks the most uninspiring, bland (beige if you like) bikes to look at. I don't know why, I don't suppose there's even that much wrong with them in the looks department.
And that's coming from someone who has two uninspiring Specialized bikes 🤣
The Trek is a full 29er, not a mullet and the TQ HPR50 motor is a bit pants apparently.
The Trek is a full 29er, not a mullet and the TQ HPR50 motor is a bit pants apparently.
It can be run as a mullet, it has a flip chip for that
2 of these
I know you're a fan weeksy, so don't take it personally. I just find Treks the most uninspiring, bland (beige if you like) bikes to look at. I don't know why, I don't suppose there's even that much wrong with them in the looks department.
And that's coming from someone who has two uninspiring Specialized bikes 🤣
2 of these
I know you're a fan weeksy, so don't take it personally. I just find Treks the most uninspiring, bland (beige if you like) bikes to look at. I don't know why, I don't suppose there's even that much wrong with them in the looks department.
And that's coming from someone who has two uninspiring Specialized bikes 🤣
Lol I was mostly kidding. Treks though to me just do what they're supposed to. But that's as far as it goes. But I've never really ridden a boutique brand bike to compare.
I do want to try and Atherton S150 but I'm scared I'll like it.
I like specialized too though, my Status and his Sworks Enduro were ace.
Not for me, happy with my Levo, but all the Germans on the campsite cant wait to get one.
Is it just hype or the next best thing since sliced bread.
So the only downside I can find anywhere, from anyone, is that big, heavy, ugly-as-sin, FF bikes will go up hills faster.
Pretty much. To add further to the SL vs FF debate, I'm firmly on the SL side. I want an ebike that handles and rides like a normal bike. I've had limited experience on a FF 26kg Bosch-powered ebike and the weight ruined the ride for me. FF ebikes are getting lighter but there wasn't anything like my 20.5kg SL available (and in my budget) when I bought my Heckler SL.
Of course it’s all subjective, but as a former owner of an ‘SL’ ebike, which was also ~20.5kg by the time it actually had suitable components on it, I’ll happily take the 1.3kg penalty to a bike with 2.5 times the battery capacity & similar increase in power for my full fat.
The reality was my KSL couldn’t actually do any more range or climbing than I could, without a motor. Then it was turned down to a level where I’m just riding a heavy bike around every so slightly faster up hills. Pointless.
Now, if I could get a mid powered bike, something like the HPR60 with a decent battery to around 18kg, and be confident it wasn’t going to fall apart down trails, I’d probably never bother riding a human powered bike again for anything other than XC.
This is the most recent video I've watched featuring that Will bloke who used to work here. It's the same as all the others but he rattles through it pretty quickly with minimal waffling. He summarises by saying it's the "most fun, best performing, lightweight e-bike I've ever tested".
That video was almost 3yrs ago though... Way before the Bosch SX motor came out... Before even the TQ HPR50 came out, and that's already been superseded by the HPR60 now!
He's reviewed a number of bikes since then FWIW... 😉
Honestly, if you rode a Levo SL back to back with a decent bike with the Bosch SX motor in, there's no way you'd buy the Levo SL, even with less of a discount on the SX bike! TQ's HPR60 is getting much better press than the HPR50 did too, and seems a very good piece of kit for those who really want the lighter and more natural feel.
my 630wh battery means that I’m knackered before I run out of batter. With roughly half that battery I’d be pissed off id run out of battery
Agreed... Running out of battery before running out of steam yourself isn't ideal... OK so you need to exercise restraint and power management whatever you're riding, but if you can't get a 3hr ride out of your battery in the "middle" power setting (whatever it will be called on your motor system) or 90mins on full boost/turbo I'd say the battery is too small...
Now, if I could get a mid powered bike, something like the HPR60 with a decent battery to around 18kg, and be confident it wasn’t going to fall apart down trails, I’d probably never bother riding a human powered bike again for anything other than XC.
I'm there with you... Currently accepting that around 20kg is as light as I'm going to get what I want right now (without spending crazy money on a dentist spec Yeti MTe) and it not to require fixing every time I ride it, but I'm seeing zero downsides to riding a bike that's 4kg heavier but eminently more versatile than a similarly specced/configured trail bike without a motor or battery right now, especially as it has enough power to keep up with the full fats when I want to, in eco it's spot on riding with people on regular MTB's, and in Tour+ and eMTB it's spot on for the majority of my riding. My XC bike is almost being relegated to a glorified gravel bike now as a result!
I rode the DuneXR for a couple of weeks with the SX motor and that was proper lovely... Not as powerful as the big players of course, but certainly good enough for what i wanted.. Sadly the DunXR is a million pennies, so out of my range.
I think the analogy above with single speed above is good. Some people want to do it for some bizzare reason, whether they think it looks cool, are stuck with 5yr old marketing BS in their head, or they are a masochist.
The Levo SL is not light years ahead of my Rise LT in handling terms, its a bit more nimble, but id say worse DH.
I can run my Rise at whatever power output I like on a scale of 0 to 85nm, but I would say most of my riding is 45nm or 85nm. If battery was infinite it would always be 85nm but I would just go further.
Maybe if Op is after that 'SL' ebike feeling, just get the Spesh analogue equivalent, strap maybe 5kg weight to it, and it we feel like a low powered ebike without the cons of a motor and battery 🙂
Of course it’s all subjective, but as a former owner of an ‘SL’ ebike, which was also ~20.5kg by the time it actually had suitable components on it, I’ll happily take the 1.3kg penalty to a bike with 2.5 times the battery capacity & similar increase in power for my full fat.
My experiences have been on my SL/20.6kg and a full fat Cube at 26kg with nothing in-between, so I'd be interested to try a full fat <22kg sometime. By the time I'll start thinking about (and being able to afford...) replacing my Heckler SL things will have moved on quite a bit I imagine.
I was pleasantly surprised my SL is 'only' 20.6kg despite a robust build on a XXL frame: XM481/EX471 on Pro4s, 4-pot XTs with 203s, EXO+ tyres inc rear insert, Mezzer Pro, and that's inc pedals, mudguard, bottle cage etc.
but I'm seeing zero downsides to riding a bike that's 4kg heavier but eminently more versatile than a similarly specced/configured trail bike without a motor or battery right now
Or, another 2kg for a bike you don't have to absolutely rinse to get full power out of and can go 1.5-2x further?
My trek fuel exe (now with hpr60 motor retrofitted in place of the original Hpr50) is 19.5 kg with the 360wh battery, or 20.5kg with the range extender giving a total of 520wh. That's with a fairly heavy duty build, fox 38, hope tech4 v4 brakes, thick 200mm rotors, continental enduro tyres etc.
With just the main battery and no range extender itwill do about 1000m of climb over 25ish miles using all the modes. I'd expect it would do double that if you were really sparing with the power.
The new hpr60 motor is about 15 - 20% more efficient than the old hpr50 motor, and you can definitely notice the additional 10nm
I rarely ride my full power orbea wild fs, I don't like the weight of it.
"My trek fuel exe (now with hpr60 motor retrofitted in place of the original Hpr50) is 19.5 kg with the 360wh battery, or 20.5kg with the range extender giving a total of 520wh. That's with a fairly heavy duty build, fox 38, hope tech4 v4 brakes, thick 200mm rotors, continental enduro tyres etc."
That's light - my old Levo has much the same parts and only a 500Whr battery (but a full power motor and alloy frame) and weighs 4kg more (ie 20%)!
but I'm seeing zero downsides to riding a bike that's 4kg heavier but eminently more versatile than a similarly specced/configured trail bike without a motor or battery right now
Or, another 2kg for a bike you don't have to absolutely rinse to get full power out of and can go 1.5-2x further?
An 800Wh battery alone is 2kg heavier than a 400Wh... The CX motor is 900g heavier than an SX... So that's 2.9kg before changing any other parts/spec... Which is likely given most full fat bikes are longer travel and have beefier components... Certainly I can get away with lighter wheels and tyres on a lighter eBike than I can on a full fat...
Besides which... I have one of those too! It's 24.5kg with an EXT coil shock, 38's, strong wheels etc... I've just done a near 50km ride with almost 2km of climbing on it and it was absolutely the right tool for the job... But the SX powered bike is more fun for and eminently more suitable for shorter, flatter rides! 👍🏻
Julians- do you mind if I ask how you got the upgrade - did you just buy a new motor (apparently straight swop but need new plastic motor cover), and did you try to sell your old 50 motor. Ta
ps are you anywhere near Oxfordshire ,
Julians- do you mind if I ask how you got the upgrade - did you just buy a new motor (apparently straight swop but need new plastic motor cover), and did you try to sell your old 50 motor. Ta
ps are you anywhere near Oxfordshire ,
I bought the new motor direct from silverfish via their web shop. When you fit the new motor it doesn't work until you activate it using the dealer software (takes 5 mins), so you need to pay a dealer to do this bit or have software and a dongle and do it yourself.
You don't need a new motor cover if you remove the cooling fins from the motor.
I havent tried selling my old motor because it's broken, will take it apart at some point....
I rarely ride my full power orbea wild fs, I don't like the weight of it.
I find my heritage 2017 Levo a fat, weighty lump, particularly on anything nadgery and downwards pointing. Some of this will be because I am a feeble, fundamentally unskilled rider, so of it because I only ride it very occasionally so my muscle memory/motor learning responses are tuned to work with a much lighter bike and my inputs feel 'wrong'. I'd probably be better if I rode it more often, but then I'd rather ride a conventional bike and retain the ability to do that. YMMV, that's just my personal take.
I suspect I'd probably get on with an SL-type bike, but I'm not much of an e-biker and the thing I love about heading out on a normal bike is not having to fret about battery range.
It does worry me a little that transitioning onto an e-bike is becoming some sort of normalised pathway to the point where people stop questioning whether they want an e-bike at all and just start deciding which e-bike they want or whether lightweight or full fat is the way forward because the default assumption is that a power-assisted bike must be inherently 'better'. I've always been a 'use it or lose it' sort of guy, and figure the best way of continuing to be able to boot a conventional e-mtb hard up a short techy climb is simply to carry on booting conventional e-mtbs up hills. It's also, for me at least, considerably more affordable.
Re the OP's original question. Yes, the Levo Sl might be 'almost the price a regular bike would be with this spec.' but you have to ask whether having assistance adds value for you personally and also factor in how you'd feel about investing a bunch more cash in it if / when the battery/motor fail out of warranty. There's a short-termism about a lot of e-mtb purchase decisions where the assumption seems to be that you'll only keep it for a couple of years then get rid/upgrade and I say that as someone with a now eight-year-old one. If the battery failed and I had to stump up £800-odd for a new one, would it be worth it?
Sorry, not anti-emtb, but the way it's fast becoming a default is something I find a little troubling, then again I'm of the unpopular opinion that it would be better for people generally to walk or cycle short journeys rather than jump in the car every time.
fwiw, I swap between a 10kg xc bike, 14kg trail bike and a 25kg full-fat emtb with little issues. It doesn't take long to get used to the handling.
I should add I weigh 97kg though, so compared to my body weight, my full-fat bike is probably like an SL for someone lighter!
These are the 155mm Specialized kids cranks : https://www.certini.co.uk/components/service-parts/specialized-s211600035-turbo-sl-crankset-m20-mountain-155mm-sram__96736
Although there are comments about the SL bike not being a lot better than an anaolgue bike because the extra weight pretty much compensates for Eco mode in the first place, but with the SL bike I am able to reserve the assistence for the steep climbs that would otherwise push my heart rate up to high levels - I'm 61 so try to keep it down to 170 as a max.
The tryes on the SL are also quite hefty, although I'd read that switching to something lighter and softer might actually hurt the range.
I've looked at so many bikes this weekend. Fat ones, skinny ones, light, heavy, ugly, less ugly. 6, 7, 8 grand for bikes with crap suspension, brakes and tyres.
Basically my previous opinion about the general state of e-bikes hasn't changed. They're all a bit shit. You just need to pick the flavour of shit that you can live with.
Nothing really tickled the wife's fancy but she still wants something. She's getting excited about riding now, talking about it all the time.
If it was just for me I wouldn't even consider one yet. I'm very happy with what I have.
As for e-bikes becoming the norm, I think that horse has bolted. MTB is a motorised sport now especially for newcomers.
Basically my previous opinion about the general state of e-bikes hasn't changed. They're all a bit shit.
Elaborate if you would... 5yrs ago I'd have agreed with you for the mostpart, 3yrs ago I'd have agreed that it was a bit 50/50 (some good some bad), now though... I'm struggling to see where you're coming from! The choices are endless (far too many probably!) and I really can't think of any real standout "bad eMTB's" these days... Unsuitable ones for purpose? Yes of course... But "all a bit shit"...? 🤷🏻♂️
I also alternate between my Airdrop, a mullet trail hardtail and a Turbo Levo and love them all in their different ways. I agree that like all things in life, for the moment e-bikes are still a bit of a compromise weightwise but the future is bright.
I definitely don't have the same passion for e-bikes from a looks POV as a steel hardtail but boy are they are they fun 🙂
It’s certainly no contest when it comes to which of my two MTBs I (anyone with eyesight) prefer(s) aesthetically:
But they’re both equally fun in entirely different ways. For me the ebike makes commutes quicker, less tiring, and more fun, acts as a self-uplift vehicle where you’d just be pushing back up on a normal bike, and has the occasional XC outing when the weather is being stupidly windy (as is more and more common nowadays).
If I was as skilled and fit and time-rich as I’d like to be I’d be on the hardtail almost all the time but sadly I have to live in the real world where gears, more suspension and power assistance are rather helpful.
I do love how the Levo handles, especially with the bigger fork and smaller rear wheel.
The Levo’s just had the battery connector cable fail which is the first fault in years. About £100 to replace so it could be worse… Hopefully this isn’t the start of a cascade of age/mileage-related issues!
Basically my previous opinion about the general state of e-bikes hasn't changed. They're all a bit shit.
Elaborate if you would... 5yrs ago I'd have agreed with you for the mostpart
My Eeb is 5yrs old 22kg (ish) and is easily the best thing i`ve ever bought! Its full power (but all levels are set as low as possible) with a dinky in frame battery and a range extender. (2020 focus jam2 plus)
@sharkatack by chance, I got to swing a leg over a Mint Green Turbo Levo SL2 yesterday and from a carpark ride it felt great, 2x power still got me to max speed real easy, but the bike was easy to move around, lift the front and hop. I was in the market for a Levo 4 Comp Alloy next year and this has swung things for me...
stop thinking about it, stop reading too much into it and go pick up that Ohlins SL2 and enjoy it!
Sorry I've been ignoring STW all week!
I did see some e-bikes I like. I like the Focus Sam, I like the Trek Slash, I like the Vala which I haven't seen in the flesh yet.
One of my ideas was to get the lowest spec Druid Core and sacrifice my Airdrop to use all the nice parts which are a direct fit, even the shock and seatpost. But, you can't get the Druid anywhere, I really like my Aidrop, it would be a terrible bike for the wife.
stop thinking about it, stop reading too much into it and go pick up that Ohlins SL2 and enjoy it!
Maybe I've tried to and maybe the LBS has dropped the ball and left me hanging.
If we become a full e-bike family in the future I'll have to give up one of my bikes, probably for the Druid.
One of my ideas was to get the lowest spec Druid Core and sacrifice my Airdrop to use all the nice parts which are a direct fit
If you still ride lift assisted trips you'll regret going down to just an eeb only garage. I use my Kenevo SL for most of my local rides (2-3 hours sessioning trails mostly), but still have my 'enduro' for uplifts and the occasion when I want a change or am riding with non eeb mates. Despite the Kenevo SL being a great machine, I much prefer the analogue bike riding downhill (the weight of the eeb means you need to wrestle it more on the tight stuff and gets more tiring if doing a lot of jumps) and certainly don't want to be lifting the Kenevo on an off a trailer or chairlift all day. I have quite few mates and all of them that have an eeb also have an analogue for similar reasons.
My next eeb will be full fat I think as if my riding group continue to buy them, they'll go this way.
If you're thinking of the druid and swapping parts, consider the LitE with a 210x55mm shock. Turns it into a CorE
If you still ride lift assisted trips you'll regret going down to just an eeb only garage.
I know. I really like the Edit MX so I'm hanging onto it. It's perfect for what I use it for.
If you're thinking of the druid and swapping parts, consider the LitE with a 210x55mm shock. Turns it into a CorE
I'll consider everything when the time comes but I think it's a long way off. I'd like to see a Druid before I commit to buy one but there's not many around yet.
I will add, just to break the suspense, that I committed to buy the Levo SL last Friday and the shop broke it while doing the PDI. It's been a shambles ever since. 6 days later I'm still waiting for the call to collect it.
So much for supporting your LBS. I should have ordered it from Tredz and built it myself.
If you still ride lift assisted trips you'll regret going down to just an eeb only garage. I use my Kenevo SL for most of my local rides (2-3 hours sessioning trails mostly), but still have my 'enduro' for uplifts and the occasion when I want a change or am riding with non eeb mates. Despite the Kenevo SL being a great machine, I much prefer the analogue bike riding downhill (the weight of the eeb means you need to wrestle it more on the tight stuff and gets more tiring if doing a lot of jumps) and certainly don't want to be lifting the Kenevo on an off a trailer or chairlift all day. I have quite few mates and all of them that have an eeb also have an analogue for similar reasons.
You say that & it’s something I had troubled myself with thoughts over for a while, but again I work on the principle of having the bike for the 95% rather than the 5.
Not that I do any UK uplifts any more, as e-bikes kind of make them pointless & redundant. I did some back country lift assisted eebing this summer in Aosta & it opens up so much more territory.
My actual biggest issue has always been flying with them, and really is the reason why I still have a very nice, yet hardly ridden Raaw hanging up in the garage, but it’s a utterly pointless extravagance which probably gets ridden 10 times a year.
In reality I should sell it & buy something TQ powered so I can take the battery out of & build the 18kg AM bike, that probably weighs the same as the Raaw when it’s not got the battery. At least it would get used.
Uplifts are currently a lot more than 5% for me. I have a group of mates who will only ride bikeparks and DH tracks. We've been averaging one weekend a month for over a year so 20 plus days of riding. There are loads of other bikepark, jumpy style venues on my wishlist and we still go to the Alps every summer. Having a DH focused bike without actually riding a DH bike is kind of essential.
The Edit is also perfect for local stuff like Wharny but I mostly ride there alone as all of the grown ups have switched to e-bikes.
The Levo will get the Mrs back out and we can have cheaper/free days out all over the place, no lifts required.
You say that & it’s something I had troubled myself with thoughts over for a while, but again I work on the principle of having the bike for the 95% rather than the 5.
I did swap my Megatower V2 for a V1 and some cash so I didn't feel so bad about the value of the 20% of my riding bike. However what with scratching itches and all that I've swapped the V1 frame out for a Raaw Madonna V2.2 which has reignited my love for analogue mtbs. I'd also forgotten about flying with an eeeb as have been in a van to France the last couple of years, but we'll likely be flying again next year, so that's another tick for the 2 bike approach.
I did consider a DH bike rather than the enduro, but realistically the enduro is so much more versatile.
In reality I should sell it & buy something TQ powered so I can take the battery out of & build the 18kg AM bike, that probably weighs the same as the Raaw when it’s not got the battery. At least it would get used.
if you went for something TQ powered, you can take the main battery out and leave it at home, and take the bike and just the range extender for foreign trips as its small enough (160wh) to be allowed on a plane. You can actually take 2 x 160wh range extenders on a plane if the cost of 2 batteries is acceptable.