[Closed] Tubular tyres and punctures

I've done plenty of research into this, although so far I have no practical experience so I'm in the same boat as you. My decision is to carry a tube of vittoria pit stop as first defence, and carry a pre glued spare tub and CO2 to mount if necessary. Others will be sure to say that's overkill...

2 options - Either carry a can of sealant which will deal with most things but will also write off the tyre. Or go old skool and carry a very light weight spare that's already been glued/taped, you then rip the punctured one off, attach the new one, pump up and be on your way.

Edit, or as above, do both,

I carry a can of pit stop as well, which I've used with varying degrees of success. If you get a big cut it won't do much. You can send tubulars away for repair

I know a few folk who carry a spare tub with them (one of whom carries a wooden spoon to help remove the tyre) and have learned how to remove and replace tubs quickly.

I generally only use the tubs for racing as I CBA with the faff (or expense) of trying a roadside repair. If I was in a TT I'd probably just ride back to the start carefully.

If it's for tens I would do nothing, aside from not get punctures. For longer distances, where being marooned with a flat would represent a serious ballache, I would put sealant in the tub before hand as a general policy, and I would carry a small tube of tufo extreme sealant and a CO2 inflator.

If you want to take a spare you can get some track tubs that roll-up small like an inner tube - not the most robust but will probably see you home. Most normal tubs won't roll up tight and will take up a bit of space - fine taped under the seat for normal riding but be unusual to time trial like this (although I guess there's nowt wrong with it).

You might look into tufo tubulars - they have the inner tube annealed to the tyre (which is not the usual structure) so work brilliantly with sealant. I commute on them, but don't know what their fast range is like.

Firstly, IME you're a lot less likely to get a puncture with tubs, but putting some sealant (check for latex-friendly) is worthwhile, plus carry a pre-glued or taped tub with you and a CO2 inflator. You can also ride on a semi-deflated tub unlike a clincher e.g. I've ridden the last few miles of a 10TT with a flat rear tyre. Tufo tubs roll-up smaller than a regular tub too.

I'm not a roadie or racer so don't really know much about tubs, but I'm curious, is it only sticky tape or glue holding these things on? There's no bead, so how do these things not get ripped off when you brake hard or go around corners, I know they work but I'd be worried I'd be ripping them off the rims.

The glue bond is very strong - a well-glued tub cannot be taken off the rim without some sort of pointy tool. Plus there is 100psi of pressure in the tyre pressing it down which makes it a very robust arrangement.

In cyclocross racing where tubs are run at 25psi or lower you can indeed rip it off the rim - 'rolling a tub' - an unfortunate event. Bigger tyre at low pressure, with large side loads puts a lot more emphasis on a solid gluing job. I tape road tubs on in 2 minutes without much of a second thought - gluing CX tyres is a different proposition.

In days of old when all we had were tubs or dirty great wired ons we just carried a spare. No big deal really. For a normal out and back 10 you hoped the turn marshal spotted you if you didn't bother . Wrap it in some plastic or a bread bag and toe strap it under the seat. By the early 80s CO2 existed or you just used your normal pump under the top tube. Both offer minimal aero handicap for most of us anyway.

Tubs puncture less frequently in my experience and mending them, whilst fiddly is not an issue . Rip the stitching open , slap a patch on and sew it up. Then use it as your spare as its nice and sticky.

I'm not saying that its as quick as patching a tube but its surprising how quick you can do a replacement. Time won't be an issue as a puncture in most TTs mean game over anyway.

Have tried a bit of sealant but it didn't work. Pit Stop type stuff can work but isn't 100 %

The lightest spare as far as I know is

https://www.tufo.com/en/road-cycling1/detail/elite-jet/

I no longer really use tubs, but never had a puncture when using them through the 90s. I used to carry a spare though unless racing. The time taken to replace it would have made it pretty pointless, and you can ride a tub slowly whilst flat.

To the previous poster, yes it is just glue (best way) or tape holding the tyre on. If you've ever removed a tyre you'll realise its not going anywhere. To be honest I loved the feel of a tub pumped up to something silly psi. Turns out that clinchers pumped up to something sensible might well be quicker!

I can fix them,  mostly cross tubs, but if you post them to me,  I’ll post them back for £15.

£10 if you pick up from Bucks

i’ll never be rich and it’s a small market.

I use Tufo tubs and add some sealant to them . I just carry extra seamant and co2 cartridges .

When you start discussing either tape or glue you will open a real can of worms!  Just stay with what's there.

I pre treat my tubs with sealant as well as carrying a spare tub strapped to the bike, tub tape & a can of Vittoria pitstop

So if i do get a puncture and the sealant cant fix the hole i can fit my spare with the tub tape and then inflate it with the pitstop

Once home i take the punctured tub and throw it in the bin then strap a new spare tub to the bike and then order another one to replace the one Ive just strapped to the bike

I always run Vittoria Rally's £12.99 each from Decathlon

Just had my second ever puncture on tubs, the first was from a pot hole strike at the end of last road racing season. Tyre was quite old so limped back to HQ and binned it afterwards, took quite a hit so not sure there was any roadside fix worth trying. I travel light when racing anyway and take my chances on a lift back off a support car when mechanicals happen.

Latest was Sunday gone, noticed the back was slowly losing air. I run mine with Orange seal but not sure I had enough in, fortunately I made it back again with about 20psi left.

Not wanting to scrap a relatively new tub I topped up with another 20ml of sealant last night. Removed the small shard of glass, filled the hole with Loctite 480 then inflated. It stopped up over night and survived 30 minutes on the rollers earlier, if it gets through tomorrow’s crit I’ll declare it fixed!

I don’t TT so not sure of the logistics, guess I’d probably run sealant in the hope they’d hold enough pressure to get me back.

As said above tubs are rarely a puncture problem. To give an example in the 1970s I did a week long tour on tubs on dirt tracks in Oz. I took a spare rolled up under the saddle but never needed it. I'm sure tubs are even better now.

Never punctured one but only use them for racing.

Don't do anything other than trust to luck in 10s and 25s, but as per above punctures are much less likely, no pinch flats for example.  In a 50 I may carry a sealant, in a 100/12hr/24hr I always do.

@ Escrs, try a better quality tubular, it will be like night and day on the road

Ive had Conti sprinters, Vittoria Corsa G+ graphene, Tufo tubs

I prefer the Rally's as when they do puncture they are cheap to replace, a throw away item like inner tubes

I went through 3 Corsa G+ in 2 months in 2017, that's when i switched to the Rally's

To be honest with the state of the roads i ride on i don't really notice much difference between high end tubs and the Rally's

Why would you bother riding tubs if you use Vittoria Rally or anything by Tufo?
The ride is horrible. The rolling resistance is massive.

I carry a Rally as a spare but if I puncture and use it, It will be coming off as soon as the new tyre goes on.

I don't ride tubs on the road through the winter, I could maybe see a job for a Tufo tubeless tubular there.

The fastest clinchers are faster, but I picked up a set of light 4ZA Tubular wheels very cheap so the rolling resistance/£ ratio is the winner for me

I used Conti Competitions for a while and didn't notice any ride quality improvement. In fact they were a bit lumpy at the point the base tape overlapped and they went flat on top incredibly quickly which degraded the ride quality.

Keep flirting with the idea of trying again, but with decent clinchers being quicker than all but the most expensive tubs now it's only really the weight and braking advantages with carbon tub rims that appeals.

@ barrykellett  when you get a set of Campag Bora one tubs for free 🙂

Personally i don't really notice the difference between high tubs and the Rally's and the Rally's seem to puncture less and are cheap to replace so win win for me

Funny you should mention lumpy tubs Njee20.  Just sent two FMB 25mm back today (they were miles bigger than 25mm and barely went through the caliper) because one had a lump at the basetape joint, and the other seemed to have been a Friday afternoon job where they'd used up a scrap of tread.

Never had any such problems with Veloflex carbons, and recent trends mean they're often reduced price for the 22mm.

So I'm confused, but tub curious... what are they? What are the advantage over tubeless or indeed a regular tyre & tube setup?

I use the Tufo carbon something and they are good.

Completely changed my ride from the Rally.

they are only £35 and last well. Tufo can not be repaired but they react better to sealant.

So I’m confused, but tub curious… what are they? What are the advantage over tubeless or indeed a regular tyre & tube setup?

Exactly what they sound like - they are tubular tyres, so rather than being an open shape, a "u" cross section if you like, into which you fit a tube they are a "o" shape, with the tube (which can be latex or butyl as with normal tubes) stitched into a carcass with the tread and everything. Like this:

You have a rim with a slightly concave surface (and no sidewalls) onto which you glue the tyre (or use very sticky double-sided 'tub tape') using tyre cement, a very strong contact adhesive. Rim profiles (tub on the left):

The advantages are:

- lighter rims (with carbon), saving c200g versus equivalent clinchers is common
- stronger rims, no vulnerable sidewalls, just a box profile
- better handling of heat in carbon rims, no brake track failures as it's a structural part of the rim
- better handling when flat - because they're primarily held on by the glue (the air helps) you can ride them flat marginally more successfully than many tubs
- more puncture proof - very few pinch flats
- can handle far higher pressures

The disadvantages are:
- expensive
- a faff (people will debate that, but they are more faff than clinchers), both to fit, to change and to repair
- chance of rolling a tub (much like a blowout on a tubeless tyre, crash all but guaranteed)

For years the principal advantage was a reduced rolling resistance and improved ride quality. However in recent years they've made faster clinchers, and 'ride quality' is hugely subjective. Lots of tub advocates will still say they ride far better, but IME it's far from black and white. It's commonly accepted wisdom these days that outside of the velodrome a wider tyre at lower pressure is better than a 22mm tyre at 180psi.

The pro peleton is overwhelmingly still using tubs, but they've got a car following with spare wheels already fitted. If that's not you, then you need to consider how you feel about carrying a spare tyre (either a very expensive incredibly fragile one, or a bulky thing) and a wooden spoon(!) to fit it, or if you're happy to phone for a lift if it all goes wrong many miles from home. My main concern about using an ultra light spare was that if I've punctured my 'normal' tyres, fitting a crazy light spare would make me very nervous indeed, and I'd be gingerly heading home immediately. Possibly not wholly rational, but it was enough to make me switch back to clinchers.