[Closed] Tubeless - worth the faff?

The faff is at home, not normally on the trails. If you’ve got tubeless rims and tyres now it shouldn’t be too hard or expensive - what’s on there now?

Tubeless – worth the faff?

Its hardly a faff if you got the right gear.

Yes its worth it.

I didn't think so until I tried it. Even a very mediocre rider like me I could feel the difference in grip even tho I don't run super low pressures and I love the way they self seal small punctures. So yes IMO

It's not really a huge faff. There's some stuff you need to learn about but there's lots of help around.

The main benefit for me is running far lower pressures whilst still rolling fast. 27 in my XC bike whereas I used to run about 40. This gives me far more grip and makes the ride so much smoother and more controlled, of course.

No punctures is a side benefit.

Its hardly a faff if you got the right gear.

That. If you use proper valves rather than reusing tubes, proper tape rather than messing around with electrical tape and some sort of inflation system like an AirShot then it really is no trouble at all.

Versy little faff if you have comlatible tyres and rims. Better in just about every way once set up - grip, weight, rolling resistance, puncture resistance all improved.

For balance, if you're not smashing gnarly trails, you might ask if it's worth even the minor investment in kit (tape/valves/sealant).

My hardtail does occasional XC duties, CX race duties and general family and childseat duties. Running tubes makes it much quicker and easier to swap tyres, and using latex tubes at 30-35psi doesn't feel like it's holding me back and no punctures to date.

If it was my main bike that I rode serious trails on regularly I'd go tubeless though.

Yes.

Running tubes makes it much quicker and easier to swap tyres

True, and I used to swap tyres all the time depending on conditions. However, whilst you still can with tubeless, I've not bothered. There's that much more grip that all rounder tyres are good all the time, even possibly more so than dedicated tyres used to be with tubes. I ride Rocket Rons all the time on my XC bike and I'm happy.

Old school thread title!

Yes.

+1 for this. On a mountainbike, anyway.

Went tubeless on my gravel bike. Despite the rims being labelled 'tubeless ready', that was an incredible faff.

What they all said, although I am suffering with a porous sidewall issue on a setup I'm doing for a mate at the moment.

Absolutely worth it. Been running tubeless for a couple of years now and don't know why I didn't do it years before. No punctures on the trail, all the "faff" is done in the garage with a cup of coffee not on some exposed field in the rain with a bunch of smug mates giving unhelpful advice:-)
Make sure you get the right gear and don't bother with cheap hacks!

Yep. Even for just bimbling about, no one likes fixing punctures.

Got a nasty puncture on the road bike today, a big bit of flint/gravel tore through the outer tread of the tyre and left a series of small holes ~2mm diameter. Rolled down to the bottom of the hill with 20-30psi or so in the tyre (just enough to keep a 25mm tyre in some sort of shape anyway). Stuck an anchovie in with some glue, pumped it up and finished the ride.

No faff, no sore thumbs, no repeated punctures as you miss the other thorn.

These are my second set of road tubeless and thats the first puncture that only partially sealed. Possibly could have got away without plugging it but it was too hot to risk having to pump it up twice!

And for balance - I'm fine with tubes, no problem running 26psi kinda pressures through rock gardens and drops, no punctures much (I don't carry kit unless it's a big ride somewhere new). I like being able to quickly swap out decent tyres for worn old tyres if it's dry, look after the pennies and all that.

Yes. Been tubeless for three years now, and only one flat that has been ride ending. That was a poor line choice that dinged a rim to the point that the bead wouldn't seat. Happily had a tube to remedy it. Got home, straightened the ding as much as I could, not 100% perfect, but enough that the bead would seat again. Tube out, topped up sealant and all was good. That was about 6 months ago, no issues since.

It's annoying if you get the tyre on, sealant in, pumped up, then realise that you forgot to check if your tyre is directional. Because I've done that twice. But I'm sure most people take the few seconds to do this before sealant is added!

I dont find it any more faff changing tires tubeless. The faff for me is getting the tire on and off the rim. The tubeless set up is usually done it 2 minutes. Ive had more trouble with pinching tubes changing a tire than I have tubeless by far.

I'm in the "not really" camp.

I suspect it depends entirely on how much you tend to get punctures. I don't ride hard enough to puncture very often so, after trying tubeless on one bike, I decided the admittedly only slightly extra faff wasn't worth it, and stuck with tubes.

I run 26-28psi at places like Cwmcarn etc, with no issues.

I also have a Cube Stereo, and can also confirm its a lovely bike. 😊

I don't hate tubes but yes imo it's totally worth it for mountain bikes. And I always say the same thing, sure, it can be a faff, especially the first time you try it, but it's a faff on your terms- in the garage with some tunes on, or in the kitchen with a beer, or whatever. Whereas tube faff is always at the worst time, because tubes are sneaky, so even though it's less faff it'll be up a hill in the rain.

What are the realistic pressure drops? I'm upwards of 90kg sans kit with zero talent and yet have no problem running 28psi with tubes for all sorts of riding including rocky stuff

Messing around on the trail in the rain changing tubes several times in a ride because they’ve just trimmed the hedges - worth the fuss?

Absolutely not.

And that’s before you consider the better grip - which itself is worth going tubeless for.

reformedfatty sed> What are the realistic pressure drops?

It greatly depends on the tyre.

look after the pennies and all that.

I haven't bought an inner tube in 10 years, I'm probably saving more than you running tubless

What are the realistic pressure drops?

Im 75kg, front is at 18-20 psi rear hovers around 20-22psi these are minion

nickc sed> I’m probably saving more than you running tubless

I'm using tyres I should have binned, as conditions allow day-to-day. Tubes make it possible to switch tyres quickly before heading out, or more convenient rather.

Yes

I’m using tyres I should have binned

yes, good point, although I've only ever had one set of tyres leak because they were so worn they wouldn't hold air. I've normally worn the tread out before they get to that point.

What are the realistic pressure drops? I’m upwards of 90kg sans kit with zero talent and yet have no problem running 28psi with tubes for all sorts of riding including rocky stuff

I’m 90kg and as others say, depends on the tyre. That said I’d run dual ply high rollers at 25psi on the DH bike back when I used tubes. Just switching like for like to tubeless high rollers also at 25 psi - the tyres roll better and grip better. I’d only drop the pressure in bad wet weather for my DH setup.

That said I also can get away with 25psi on 5-600g XC tyres on the XC bike, I’d be at 35 to avoid punctures with tubes.

This is brilliant. Thank you all so much for your help.

To answer a few questions, the rims are tubeless ready, I think the tyres are (Nobby NIC). Back in the 90's I would gladly spend my evening swapping bits before tomorrows ride, but now with too many kids and a busy job I want the bike ready to go, always. That's one of the reasons I bought the cube. I do still tinker but with old GTs and my 2006 giant and the kids bike.

It's probably due a service anyway on age if not mileage, so I will probably take advantage of the government £50 and take it to the LBS.

I'm about 80kg and spend my time off road in the North Leeds area, specifically Baildon, so can get a bit rocky, and it would be nice to drop the pressures a bit. I didn't even know that was a side benefit!
Thanks again. This has reminded me why I like this forum.

(Oh and if you don't already, please subscribe to the mag)

Cheers

Og

I suspect it depends entirely on how much you tend to get punctures

For me it's about rolling resistance combined with lower pressures. I am 90kg, and in my lightweight skinny Rocket Ron 2.2s I run 27psi. But I can go to 25 or probably lower, I just don't cos I don't like the so squishy - not because I get punctures.

I run 22psi on my rigid bike in 2.3 Racing Ralphs, which are also skinny lightweight casings. Given how people go on about needing really thick sidewalls I'm not sure this kind of tyre is very popular on here. I have a feeling you are all on super beefy tyres and wide rims with your low pressures and tubes.

Right tyres and rims, then yes. Baggy tyre with the wrong rim? Stick with tubes and get on with life.

My road bike and singlespeed run tubes and I rarely puncture.
My hard tail and FS are tubeless and rarely puncture but it does happen.

Like the feel of tubeless but learnt fairly quickly that if it's not going to work just sling a tube in and forget about it.

I reckon I dropped about 5psi on 26er with exo casing on the rear down to under 20psi. That was a chameleon with a 150 fork, trying to ride with some mechanical sympathy, but things do go wrong. Flint, roots and loam. Small jumps and drops.
I see lifeline make a tubeless repair kit for a fiver now. Get that and carry it.

Baggy beaded old Panaracers on deep welled rims - no (I've tried and wished I hadn't).

Most other things faff at home, don't need to swap a tube on a tyre that's just squished its way through a fresh Labrador egg! Sold. 🙂

I put off going tubeless for ages.

Must admit I'm now a convert, though I am an "outlier" as I don't get on with Stans sealant, or rather my tyres didn't, so now use Cafe Latex.

Since going tubeless I've not had a puncture that hasn't sealed. In fact I only know I've had a puncture when I spot some residue on the tyre once I'm home.

Bramble has some magnetic attraction to me on a lot of the fairly overthrown bridleways I ride and it's great being able to ride through the stuff accidentally and only be worried about blood loss from arms rather than air pressure from tyres.😁

I'm a pessimist though and still carry a tube on longer rides as there is a lot of flint on the North Downs.

Like the feel of tubeless but learnt fairly quickly that if it’s not going to work just sling a tube in and forget about it.

Good advice.

I run tubeless on my gravel bike, its good but it is an extra faff to fit, my mountainbike is tubed and pretty bloody old school, I use it for mostly XC bimbling and rides with my son, I wouldnt bother going tubeless.
In your position I would just spend sometime riding again and maybe give itva try if you get some time spare. Its not a game changer for me.

Fitted mrs anagallis roadbike with tubeless as she is very puncture adverse, seems to be working well. My roadbike is not compatible and it doesnt worry me. Use the gravel bike with tubeless slicks in winter.

Been tubeless for years, it's not really a faff anymore tbh, but...

I'd tend to agree with 13thfloormonk, if you ride fairly tame stuff, and don't get much in the way of punctures, I dunno if I'd bother.

Decent heavy duty or dh tyres no. Tubed and I maybe get a puncture a year at most. Those paper thin trail tyres though its likely worth the faff.
It really depends on how & where you ride.

I've been using ghetto tubeless for over 15 years. I think it's worth it, definitely much easier now that tubeless ready tyres are standard. The only way to find out if it's worth it for you is to try and see. The first time is a bit of a learning curve, it gets easier after that. Having reasonably robust tyres helps a lot, lightweight XC race tyres are easy to damage on rocks, etc.

Main hassle is getting them to inflate the first time. Removable valve cores help with that (I use Schraeder valves to make that easier). I can usually get them to inflate with an AirShot. Sometimes you get a really stubborn one. I just take it to the local petrol station and use their compressor, that has never failed.

you won't realise how much better tubeless is until you switch - checking tyres last night I removed four thorns (one of which required an anchovie) all of which would have been a stop and fix mid ride otherwise

I don't check tyres that often so this is fairly typical for when I do......

add in the lower pressures and for me it's an easy win, the only time I would go for tubes is where you have absolutely nowhere to maintain/wash your bike

It's good but **** me when it doesn't work it's a right urine boiler.

At the moment my front tyre is flat every time I go to ride the bike. It's a proper setup with TLR tyres, TLR rims, correct amount of Stans, overpriced rim tape + valve. I pump it up, it's fine for a full days riding, then overnight it goes flat again. I've swapped all the bits I can with the rear wheel and the front still goes down so obviously something to do with the rim or tape, ****ed if i can see anything wrong with it though.

My rear tyre, and older TLE Rocket Ron, did this for about ooh, 6 months before staying up. The new one on the front has been perfect. My daughter's tyres have been a bit deflatey for a month or so but are now ok.

The only faff is when you get a puncture that the sealant won't sort out (or you ding a rim) and you put in a tube only to discover that there are a dozen thorns in there as well 😰

The only bikes I have that still run tubes are the road bikes, once you are at 35c sized tyres or thereabouts and bigger then tubeless makes more and more sense. Last year in Finland I was running my fat bike tyres at maybe 2psi because of the conditions. That would have been pinch-flat hell with tubes.

I'll just add my huge physical, but very light intellectual, weight to the question.

Yes, it is worth the faff. Almost all previous puncture scenarios now just don't happen, the rolling resistance decrease is incredibly noticeable, as is the suppleness of the tire over mixed surfaces. I just converted new gravel 47mm tires from tubes to tubeless, first time for a few years I've converted a wheel set, and its amazing just how big the difference is in ride feel. really!

Carrying an anchovy/bacon strip and prong covers you for most other eventualities (I am amazed how well that works, even for tire carcass snakebites).

99% of the time, set up is dead easy. 99% of the time, with punctures either the sealant closes the hole without you even noticing, or a quick anchovy and a couple of pumps gets you going again.

1% of scenarios either in workshop or on a cold, wet and windy hillside are a complete disaster. IMHO, YMMV etc etc

But yes, on balance, totes worth it

TL gives better ride, less weight, improved puncture resistance, for the minimal one time faff of a different fitting procedure compared to tubes.
If you practically never puncture, or a serial tyre swapper it’s probably not worth it.
But from a performance point of view, it’s better, no question about that.

And by performance we don't mean 5 seconds off your local loop, we mean more comfort, more grip, more control, more security.

Worth the faff? The answer is both Yes and no.

Yes, if you like minimalist kit and tend to buy quality tyres and don't change them very often.

No, if you like to buy cheap tyres and mostly use your bike for commuting through glass strewn streets. Or you are a serial tyre swapper and change them for whatever the conditions you are going to ride.

For me there is a whole lot less faff if you have new tubeless specific good quality rims and use new good quality tubeless specific tyres (don't get the lightweight versions of the tyres unless you race).

Putting part worn tyres onto dented rims tends not to seal very well if not at all.

Forgot to add that you are more likely to dent your rims riding tubeless due to the lower pressures used, might not be a problem if you're light or ride light. I've never had a rim fail on me yet though 🤞

ah, but there's an insert for that 😉

having said that, I tried inserts for a year or so but haven't bothered recently (but I didn't get rim strikes before going for inserts either)

The answer, although I've spent the last half hour replacing knackered DT Swiss rim tape which left me pumping up a soft rear tyre every five miles in the Lakes yesterday, is yes!

I spent a lot of time (and a bit of money) trying to convert my MTB and my commuting bike a few months ago.

My conclusion was that it was incredibly 'finicky' trying to get the rim tape 'just right' to get a seal and the bead of the tyre rubbing was easily pushing against the rim tape (during inflation) disrupting the seal.

I'm sure I could have got it right eventually but I called it quits. It didn't give me much faith in tubeless.

My conclusion was that it was incredibly ‘finicky’ trying to get the rim tape ‘just right’ to get a seal

Don't use tape then. It surprises me that everyone uses it - it seems to be the main cause of issues. I use rim strips.

It didn’t give me much faith in tubeless.

Right but most MTBers are riding around with it all the time and find it great, so that should give you some faith no?

Don’t use tape then. It surprises me that everyone uses it – it seems to be the main cause of issues. I use rim strips.

Duly noted. I couldn't get the tape to stick very well and the rims had a channel so strips may be a better idea.

TBH it's 2020, I have to admit I was assuming that people would be using tubeless rims. I've converted non-tubeless rims but it's a different game to doing the real thing and basically you lose a lot of the certainty. Not something I'd want to do again

My daughter's bike had TLR tyres and rims, I thought it was just going to be a case of popping the valves in. But the tape the rims had on was just fabric traditional rim tape so I had to do my own. I ended up keeping the fabric tape and covering it with electrical tape. Wasn't as good as using strips, where they usually just go ping pang and stay up.

Are rim strips universal for rim specific?

So I've just finished resurrecting my much-neglected, 10-year old Giant Anthem X4 full-sus, and now want to convert it to tubeless after trying and loving it on my gravel bike.

It's still got the original set of 26" wheels with Mavic XM117 rims (not tubeless) and Panaracer Fire-XC Pro 2.1" tyres (not tubeless either).

The first cost-concious idea that I've already tried is splurging £9 on some Joe's No Flat rim strips and trying to convert the current wheels/tyres, sadly with no success.

I'm now thinking the next logical idea from a financial pov would be to try some tubeless ready/UST tyres on the original wheelset with the rim strips.

If that doesn't work, I'd have to go the whole hog and find some 26" tubeless wheels (at which point I might not bother at all and go back to tubes).

The trouble is, finding an inexpensive pair of 26" tubeless tyres and/or a set of tubeless wheels is proving to be somewhat frustrating, as the world has moved on.

Does anyone have a pair of 26" tubeless ready/UST tyres for sale, or even a whole wheelset? Or can recommend an online deal that won't end up costing more than the whole bike's worth?!

Still yet to try on road bike tubeless ready wheels (Hunt) or any sort of ghetto on the fatbike or the new Marasa hybrid... More than anything, I'm too much of a frequent tyre changer.

molgrips
Member

But the tape the rims had on was just fabric traditional rim tape so I had to do my own. I ended up keeping the fabric tape and covering it with electrical tape.

Better to remove the fabric and then tape straight to the rim- electric tape works great tbh but 2 wraps is usually a good idea.