[Closed] tubeless tyres = gash?

I flatted several times first ride I did tubeless, running shite tyres at too low a pressure was the cause, still occasionally get flats with tubeless and it's messy when you do and it's a faff to get them inflated but you are generally inflating in the warmth/comfort of home/garage and you get less flats overall so I'm still a tubeless advocate.

last descend riding down hit a rock quite hard and pffffffft straight down! Now if I'd have had my muddy Mary's on with tubes I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have had a snake bite

Maybe do it properly instead of all this "ghetto... homemade... " stuff? It works for me (95kgs, slightly agressive, very ungraceful) with Stan's rims, sealant and regular Maxxis tyres. The only thing that's killed them is when I've properly shredded a tyre sidewall or landed hard directly on a rock that put a significant dent in the rim.

...I set up tubeless using the ghetto method with gorilla tape and home made sealant...

On regular rims with regular tyres? There's your problem.

Yep, i don't know what you expect from ghetto-tape methods and homemade sealant. If you are going to the effort to set them up tubeless you may as well do it properly.

I would class myself in the same riding category as yourself and the only failure i have ever had was from a Nobby Nic going round Torridon. But as it was a Nobby Nic ill take no responsibility 🙂

What rims are you using?

In the OP's defence I use normal tyres a lot, and bodge rim strips into normal rims. I do buy stans though, a pint lasts a year+ of tyre swapping, hardly worth the faffing of latex, anti-freeze, cotton, glitter.

But I also use 2bliss (and other similar systems) tyres too. More often than not problems are related to using the 'normal' tyres, the sidewalls just aren't man enough for the job.

Mavic 719 & 721 and an assortment of non tubeless rubber. 3 flats, one from landing sideways, one from caseing a big rock step up and one from dropping into a big rock filled hole. Thats in 18 months of decent riding

Tubeless tyres - not needed
Fancy Tubeless Rims - not needed

Unrealistic expectations - not needed
Running silly low pressures - not needed

just realised OP didn't state what went wrong, I assumed perforated tyre.

Tubeless certainly isn't just for lightweight XC racers but you do need to run the right stuff [b]for you*[/b], some of the sub 20psi pressures quoted by some seem nonsensical and def wouldn't work for me but may be fine for them. On my big bike I use dual ply rear tyre at 40-45psi, on lightweight hardtail I use tlr tyres at 25-35psi and on my FS I use UST at 40psi.

*this will take some trial and error and occasionally spaffing your load of latex all over the local flora, but get it right and it works well. Of course if you rarely puncture it's probably not worth the hassle.

I've only ever managed to snakebite tubeless with a light tyre hitting a square edge thing way too hard. It dented the rim badly as well. With normal tubeless ready tyres I've never had a problem and managed to dent rims quite badly without puncturing. Maybe try a bit more air and some tougher tyres?

Also, these are the daddy for repairing gashes in the tyre when running tubeless.

[img] [/img]

mactheknife - Member
Also, these are the daddy for repairing gashes in the tyre when running tubeless.

This

and this

tomd - Member
I've only ever managed to snakebite tubeless with a light tyre hitting a square edge thing way too hard. It dented the rim badly as well. With normal tubeless ready tyres I've never had a problem and managed to dent rims quite badly without puncturing. Maybe try a bit more air and some tougher tyres?

3 flats, one from landing sideways, one from caseing a big rock step up and one from dropping into a big rock filled hole. Thats in 18 months of decent riding

Tubeless tyres - not needed
Fancy Tubeless Rims - not needed

Unrealistic expectations - not needed
Running silly low pressures - not needed

You don't have loads of thorns and flints locally I'd guess? Heavier casing tyres also?
I can't stand tubes on any bike that I ride off-road, but that's entirely down to where I ride, not the kit or how I ride. Went from 4 flats a ride sometimes, to maybe 1 per 1000 miles. You can use lower pressures on wider rims with tubes anyway, since a pinch flat impact with a tube is risking a rim ding with tubeless.

You don't have loads of thorns and flints locally I'd guess? Heavier casing tyres also?

The RQ UST's are plenty strong enough for my riding, which includes a lot of rocks and trips to the Peaks. Have yet to damage a sidewall or even have a flat but have trashed two rims through rock strikes in two years. Sounds like you were running them too soft, I'm 70kg and have to run 24/27psi. Still get plenty of grip and no burps/squirming at all.

Was it UST rubber queens, and what did you do to them? Burping a tyre's one thing (though rare, with good kit) but it's pretty hard to flat a decent tubeless tyre in a way that wouldn't also have flatted a tube.

I've never had a ghetto tubeless setup I thought was adequate tbh, but with proper rims- whether it's UST or Stans or whatever- I'd not be without it now. Put it this way, in the last few years probably 95% of my riding is done tubeless, yet 100% of my punctures are tubed.

Pimpmaster Jazz - Member 
...I set up tubeless using the ghetto method with gorilla tape and home made sealant...
On regular rims with regular tyres? There's your problem.

POSTED 36 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Regular rims yes, but tubeless tyres

mactheknife - Member 
Yep, i don't know what you expect from ghetto-tape methods and homemade sealant. If you are going to the effort to set them up tubeless you may as well do it properly.

I would class myself in the same riding category as yourself and the only failure i have ever had was from a Nobby Nic going round Torridon. But as it was a Nobby Nic ill take no responsibility

What rims are you using?

Mavic 321 rims and did a lot of research before making ghetto, tbh, it all seemed very good, did plenty of Rocky riding before it went down, I think the gorilla tape set up is all you need, can't understand how different tape would work any better?, and the sealant works fine, no chance it was going to seal a big gash to the tyre.
Pressure on back was about 35psi I hit the rock hard and felt it hit the rim, I think it's down to the tyre and poor line choice..

I don't want to give up now on tubeless, but I think I deffo need some tougher tyres, any ideas of good strong trail tyres and should I sick with tubeless or could I get away with non tableless? I tried using my non tubeless muddy Mary but had no chance in getting it up, went up with the compressor but as soon as I took compressor off it just went baggy again.

I've pinched quite a few none UST tyres. (HR's mostly)
I have UST HR 2 and UST Magic Mary's are run them sill low (Marys down to 20psi). Since going to Stans and UST tyres i've not pinched once.

I personally feel they do have stronger sidewalls on UST tyres then none UST.

My brother has pulled over 18 thorns out of a HR UST

^not read all that, but my first experience of tubeless was a poor one, with split sidewalls and torn knobbles resulting in ruined rides. I now have some tougher tyres and have no complaints, so I'm glad I didn't just give up. That said, I was never a huge sufferer of punctures in the first place.

I've been running RQ's black chilli (non ust) tubeless for around 2 years with no issues at all. I run them 25-30 psi.

I've just worn out a michelin 2.2 UST reinforced, seem pretty tough, never punctured (have pinched a few other UST tyres) having difficulty sourcing some more at sensible prices tho 🙁
I manage an [i]acceptable[/i] failure rate on Kenda Nevs, weight/price/grip vs the few times I do pinch them works for me.
Maxxis dual plys are pretty much bombproof but >1100g

Was it UST rubber queens, and what did you do to them?

Yes a ust rubber queen, hit a rock square on felt it hit the rim and pfffft straight down, checked the tyre and cut on bead and slight cut on the middle of tyre

creamegg - Member 
I've been running RQ's black chilli (non ust) tubeless for around 2 years with no issues at all. I run them 25-30 psi.

POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

What kind of riding do you do and are you a heavy aggressive rider? All makes a big difference, I certainly wouldn't get away with running them so low! thinking I'm needing a beefier tyre, that or I might just keep a tube on the back with a my muddy Mary

I prefer natural rocky trails (maily ride welsh natural trails) to groomed trail centre and I'm more aggressive than most on that type of trail when compared to my riding buddies and based on various events Ive taken part in where I can compare myself against others to the extent where most were walking some sections where I was holding on for dear life thinking this isn't going to end well. Having said that I used to run up to 35psi until recently and im around 75kg.

I'm a clumsy fat get
and that's why I love tubeless.
Dual ply maxxis on Stans Flows on both full sus bikes. Bombproof.

Mud-X on Crest still holding up well on the XC hardtail.

Do any of you tubeless riders find yourselves compromising on tyre choice, especially in winter, because you can't be arsed with the faff of swapping tyres around to suit conditions?

I've found recently I'm swapping a fair bit - different tyres for trail centres and XC, for example.

Assuming you're not swapping all the time, what tyres do you run to suit a range of ground conditions and ride locations?

I ran minions near on 365 days of the year, perfect 90% of the time rubber. Swapping for different trails? Just get on with it. Now I run ardents unless I'm off somewhere big, swapping is fairly easy with a compressor. But in the end of the day once you stop swapping and ride what you have life gets easier.

Do any of you tubeless riders find yourselves compromising on tyre choice, especially in winter, because you can't be arsed with the faff of swapping tyres around to suit conditions?

I'm not a serial tyre swapper but this winter I did buy a mud specific tyre but never got round to fitting it. Not sure why though as I can probably change a tubeless tyre faster than I've seen most change a tube.

run Magic marys in the winter / aut and High Rollers spring/summer

Do any of you tubeless riders find yourselves compromising on tyre choice, especially in winter, because you can't be arsed with the faff of swapping tyres around to suit conditions?

Yeh, more in early spring, late autumn TBH. Now eyeing up another wheelset so I can just mix and match with a bit less faff.

The UST Rubber Queen is a pretty tough tyre. I managed to pinch flat one on the back when run tubeless but that was by hitting a square edged rock on a hardtail on a downhill track with low pressure (less than 25psi). It dented the rim too and there's no way a tube would have survived.

Don't trust the gauge on your pump - you could have a lot less in there than you think! If you had a true 35psi in there then either that was a very hard hit, you're a lot heavier than 12.5 stone me or a bit of both.

booktownman - Member

Do any of you tubeless riders find yourselves compromising on tyre choice, especially in winter, because you can't be arsed with the faff of swapping tyres around to suit conditions?

Not really, I think tyres have got good enough for it not to be as big an issue- like, in ye days of old I'd have wanted a pair of swampthings for the sloppiest riding, but they sucked at everything else so I'd want to swap often. These days, Barons will do everything, and Butchers will do everything apart from horrible mud, it's still a compromise but not a huge one.

Though, tbh changing tyres isn't that much faff, takes maybe 10 minutes more than with tubes and there's a small chance it doesn't seal well first time but it's no biggy.

I've found generally that the cheaper wired bead tyres are better for a ghetto setup as they seem to seat better and the beads don't stretch the same way kevlar beads do.

I've run ghetto RQ 2.4s at around 20psi on Spank Subrosa rims for 3 years without a single issue. At the time I was riding a lot of rocky Peaks stuff and Lake District mountains and they took a battering.

After three years the rear rim wasn't particularly straight, but still held air. In the space of one ride I managed to put a hole in the tyre landing a drop onto a sharp piece of slate, repaired and reinflated with the kit above and cracked on. Then I smacked something else later on and bent the rear rim wall almost flat and had to put a tube in.

Overall the setup was brilliant and I'll be replacing the bent rim shortly to get it all setup again.

At 110 kg it's Maxxis for me and the occasional Specialized on the back. On the front whatever you fancy. Did manage to split 7 tyres in 7 rides on an innocuous bit of trail near Marple. My riding mates were not best pleased for some reason. Schwalbe are particularly easy to tear in my experience, which is a shame as they're fast and grippy enough.

Do any of you tubeless riders find yourselves compromising on tyre choice, especially in winter, because you can't be arsed with the faff of swapping tyres around to suit conditions?

The only tubeless flat I've ever had was snakebiting a 2.5 EXO Minion by charging straight into a tree stump at 20mph, with about 22psi in the tyre. That was interesting. I don't think anything would deal with that, except maybe a dual ply set up tubeless.

I'm as slow as a bus but beat people at a Gorrick cos their tubeless set-up was giving them grief. If you don't want snakebites on a tube just inflate them properly, it's not rocket surgery.

"no pinch flats" = tubeless' biggest myth.

6079smithw - Member

I'm as slow as a bus but beat people at a Gorrick cos their tubeless set-up was giving them grief.

And I'm as fast as an Edinburgh tram but I've beaten Chris Ball, Guy Martin and Crawford Carrick-Anderson because they flatted on tubes. (OK, in the case of crawfy he had to flat twice in a day and I still only beat him by about 2 seconds, but it still counts!)

Northwind - Member

And I'm as fast as an Edinburgh tram but I've beaten Chris Ball, Guy Martin and Crawford Carrick-Anderson because they flatted on tubes. (OK, in the case of crawfy he had to flat twice in a day and I still only beat him by about 2 seconds, but it still counts!)

guitarhero - Member
cynic-al - Member

"no pinch flats" = tubeless' biggest myth

Yeah, lost count of the amount of times my nothing at all has been pinched between the rim and tyre. Often, when you remove the tyre, there's no many holes in the nothing, you can see right through it. Luckily, I just replace it with nothing and carry on.

You can pinch the tyre, rather than the tube. Obviously it's far harder to do, and unless you're using sausageskins for tyres that means rim-hammering impacts not just a wee tap like will pop a tube, but still.

I'm being pedantic/stupid, but damaging the tyre is one thing, I'd see a pinch as something different. And as you say, if you hit hard enough to damage the tyre, you were puncturing a tube anyhow.

I just really cannot be arsed to try tubeless, despite people extolling the virtues.

Maybe one day.

Apart from the people who have no issues with tubeless has anybody who has had this issue (Pinch flatting running tubeless) managed to solve it?

I have always had problem with pinch punctures with tubes and so thought tubeless was going to solve all my issues. No. Tired 819 and proper UST tyres and still get pinch punctures. I think some of the reason was positioning on the bike and being too far back. I have fixed that. The other may be loosing pressure but I have had pinches straight after pumping the tyre up on stony downhills.

So what tubeless tyres have the strongest sidewalls. I don't really want to run DH tyres.

I have recently got stans flow ex rims and do not seem to have managed to pinch tyres using them.

If your pinch flatting tubeless your doing something wrong.
Wrong tyres, too low a pressure or your just a bufoon.

GEDA - Member

Apart from the people who have no issues with tubeless has anybody who has had this issue (Pinch flatting running tubeless) managed to solve it?

Honestly it is just 3 things- adequate pressure, adequate technique and adequate tyres, in that order. But getting the pressures right is the big thing. Tough tyres to stop tubeless pinches is treating the symptoms not the cause. Wider rims can help too but it's the same thing.

Apart from the people who have no issues with tubeless has anybody who has had this issue (Pinch flatting running tubeless) managed to solve it?

I'd say it's 'just' a case of making sure the tyres, rims and pressures suit the environments. I've learnt that for me low 20s psi on the back on a hardtail might work great in the mud and greasy tree roots of my locale but it won't cope when I ride rockier faster trails elsewhere. However I've also noticed that those fast rocky trails have more grip so generate more g when cornering and require a firmer tyre to prevent squirm.

I think wide rims are far more beneficial with tubeless because of how much better they hold and support the tyre when you're cornering hard (good pinkbike article on this) - when there's a tube in there that tube is helping hold the tyre on and stiffening the sidewalls thus reducing squirm (but also stiffening and damping the carcass under the tread thus increasing rolling resistance).

I'm really impressed with the new Super Gravity tyres from Schwalbe - I'm only running one up front but it rolls remarkably well considering it's a 1kg fairly sticky tyre with full dual-ply sidewalls. If you can pinch flat one of those tubeless I'd be amazed!

Braking when you hit rocky sections at speed can be very tough on tyres - get your speed right and then let the tyres roll!

Tried a 2.2 UST Rubber Queen tubeless in the Lakes last year on the rear. Lasted half a day before the sidewall tore (30psi). Went back to Maxxis EXO or 2 ply rear.

Thought I would try them after all the rave reviews but I found the rubber queen to be expensive, has rubbish traction in the wet/mud and loose dry and is made of paper.

Not a good tyre for the Lakes I would say,unless you only ride at Whinlatter or are 8 stone.

I'm one of the lucky ones who hasn't really had issues with tubeless tyres, but I never used to puncture tubes that much either.

I run my Hans Dampf's around the 20psi mark where ever I ride. I do run widish rims which may help. I've bashed my rear rim a few times and not lost any pressure etc (they've now been bent back to shape). I managed to burp the rear tyre once cornering hard in the summer with sub 20psi.

I'm far from a riding god, but I'm not the slowest either.

Have tubes and don't pinch all because of dual ply.

Mates run tubeless dual ply Minions and don't pinch.

Either way its a simple solution.

Fixed that for you, unless apres ski has turned you in to some tartiflette pot bellied beer monster?

cky-Thump -
I'm a clumsy [s]fat[/s] skinny get
and that's why I love tubeless.
Dual ply maxxis on Stans Flows on both full sus bikes. Bombproof

I have had a problem with the tyre burping on the front. Tyre almost completely came off the rim. The pressure had dropped loads. Now check them every ride.

That was tubeless tyres on tubeless rims. I do worry every ride about them

I had a thorn puncture last weekend while pushing my bike downhill on a cattle-churned manure-fest which was singletrack four months ago.

That was enough to convince me to set my winter tyres up tubeless.

I'd say it's 'just' a case of making sure the tyres, rims and pressures suit the environments.

In a nutshell.

I think wide rims are far more beneficial with tubeless because of how much better they hold and support the tyre when you're cornering hard

Agreed.

When there's a tube in there that tube is helping hold the tyre on and stiffening the sidewalls thus reducing squirm

Totally. A UST tyre is designed to be run without a tube and has a stiffer, tougher sidewall for that reason. A regular tyre isn't.

To sum it up - don't put set-up Conti Supersonics tubeless on to your your 160mm bike in the Lakes and expect them to work like proper UST tyres.