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Obviously this comes up a lot and there's always a bunch of people that say they've never had any problems, and a bunch others that disagree.
I seem to have constant problems, at least on narrower rims with higher pressures (but I'm still only talking ~40 psi).
Last time I taped up the rear wheel of my gravel bike I did as clean a job as I can ever imagine doing.
I spent nearly an hour cleaning it up with rubbing alcohol as the previous mucoff tape had left a load of residue (and not worked that well). I warmed the tape before applying (something I've never done before). I did three layers to be sure, all pulled nice and tight, and pressed down hard enough to leave my thumbs sore for a few days, no air bubbles that I could see. And of course did the shake and lay on it's side after installing the tyre. The valve I'm using is a Mavic UST and so is the rim, so they sit nice and flush.
But ever since that, the tyre has always dropped from psi in the high 20's to the low 20's over one or two days, then to a little under 20 after a week. So it's been a case of inflating before every ride, and it prob drops a few psi over a lnoger ride. When I came to change the tyre this week, the tape is already a mess of air bubbles even though it's only been on a couple of months.
I'm really at a loss; every tyre change is just a total faff. I've read a bunch of threads on this, watched how-to videos on youtube, which always make it look so much easier than it ever feels. The only thing I've never done is put a tube in overnight, but I can't imagine how I'd get one in there with this rim as the tyre was tight enough as it was (it's only 21mm internal so there's not much space for both beads to sit in the channel). Plus, like I say, no air bubbles I could see.
What I've ended up doing this time is leaving the bottom layer of rim tape on there, then installing a Specialised rim strip on top of a thin layer of double sided tape down the channel (last time I used a stip on this rim the tyre creased it and it didn't hold air at all). This has held 40 psi for three days, so seems to be solid.
But damn it should not be this complicated. The front wheel on my gravel bike has a proper mavic UST rim with no spoke holes, and it just works. I also found a Bontrager rim strip that fits my DT Swiss rim on my mtb and that's also perfect -- installing the strip is a 30 sec job, and the seal is perfect. There's also no chance something like the Bontrager strip would be damaged by a snapped spoke.
This is 70% rant post, 30% call for help I guess
Only thing I can suggest is are you using the right sized tape for your rim?
My bikes do lose some air over a week and it's no biggie to give a couple of pumps before a ride is it?
Mavic UST and so is the rim
Why are you using tape on a UST rim?
If it's a ust rim, try using a proper ust rim strip. I used to have some ust rims and they came with a rim strip rather than tape. Was super tight and worked perfectly.
https://www.bikeparts.co.uk/products/mavic-25mm-ust-tape-19-to-22mm-road-rims?
Yes, def the right size -- 21mm internal rim, 24mm or 25mm tape (I can't remember, but it fits between the rim walls perfectly when installed)
I've actually used the same tape on a 30mm internal rim, so it just covers the spoke holes. That wheel is holding air perfectly, even after a couple of tyre changes
Is it a new tyre? I've had some tyres (tan walls particularly) that have been flat as a pancake the next morning. It took several days, lots of sealant and plenty of swishing the wheel around sideways to get the sealant onto the sidewalls before they'd seal up; after that they were fine.
@nickc, it's not a fully sealed rim, it's one of these
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rims-tape/mavic-xc621-29er-622-mtb-disc-rim-black-32-hole/
I thought Mavic called all their tubeless rims UST, even the drilled ones, but I could be wrong. In any case they say to use a UST valve
@ads678, I didn't realise Mavic did rim strips. They seem to have moved to tape now, but I will have a google (my quick look now only unearther 26" strips)
@pjay, no not a new tyre so not the issue I'm afraid. I've had weepy sidewalls before too, but these ones seem OK. In any cae, they should have sorted themselves out ofter two months
The only trick I do is to warm the rim and tape before I wrap
Ah, gotcha. cool.
In no particular order.
that particular tyre won't hold air, you're wasting your time with it
the valve is leaking - nine times out of ten it's this for me
the rim's got a dent in it somewhere - doesn't have to be massive, just enough not to seal.
My rule is three goes at it, and then put a tube in. Sometimes it just doesn't want to seem to work, other times you can put the sloppiest bit of tape, take no care, and it goes up without any issues. For me the failure rate increases with the operating pressure the tyre needs to be at, fat 'ole MTB tyres I never have any issues, commuting tyres or anything that needs to stay above 35-40 psi failure rate is about one in four, road bikes, I have never done it successfully.
That one I've linked says tape but on the pic the box says rim strip.
Pretty sure the rims I had had spoke holes, but they deff used a rim strip rather than tape.
@wheeliedirty, yes, I did do that this time. First time I've bothered and it did make application easier, but hasn't kept it stuck down
I should also clarify, this has been an ongoing problem for years, with different tyres and rims -- but like I say only really narrower rims. Wider ones that are gently sloped into the channel I generally don't have problems with.
Hope 20FIVE were the worst. I found them impossible to tape, and when I installed a supposably puncture-proof Effetto tubeless rim strip it still punctured (I think the Hope rims' spoke holes were particular sharp and angular)
Yeah some rims just don't want to seal (see my success rate with road rims) I've experienced the same as you, narrow rim with a defined channel - doesn't work. I thought my technique was just sloppy, but maybe its the rim shape after all.
You could give gorilla tape a go. Wrap some leccy tape round first to prevent the gunk gorilla tape tape leaves behind. Then see if a normal tubeless valve works. It's always worked for me, but not tried it with a ust rim though...
@ads678, ah, for some reason I didn't see your link, thanks I'll check it out.
The Gorrila tape with electric underneath is also a good idea and something I had considered. And the narrower Gorrila tape should be perfect for a 21mm rim as well
Sometimes it just doesn’t want to seem to work, other times you can put the sloppiest bit of tape, take no care, and it goes up without any issues. For me the failure rate increases with the operating pressure the tyre needs to be at, fat ‘ole MTB tyres I never have any issues, commuting tyres or anything that needs to stay above 35-40 psi failure rate is about one in four, road bikes, I have never done it successfully.
@nickc, yes, totally agree. It's the unpredictability of tape that grinds at me. I've never bothered trying it with a proper road tyre as I wouldn't trust tubeless at high pressure, unless it was a proper holeless Mavic rim.
The tyre was def fine this time, and the rim is newish and dent free. It could have been the valve though, yes. One theory I had is that the valve leaked and pressuried the rim enough to bubble the tape from underneath, ruining what may have been a well taped rim. Guess I'll never know
@ads678, ah, for some reason I didn’t see your link, thanks I’ll check it out
Was an edit, so probably crossed posts.
It's a bodge job that for some reason is now an industry standard. If those plastic Specialized rim strips fit I'd just keep using them. I don't have much trouble with tape but when I do I just put one of the strips in and all the trouble vanishes.
The correct answer is a fully sealed rim bed but manufacturers need to maximise profit on their £800 aluminium wheelsets so drilling and installing 50p worth of tape is what we get.
Just a guess. Do you make the hole in the tap with a knife or use a skewer to get a round hole. Not sure if it makes any difference.
In 2023 making a tyre and wheel air tight using tape seems so archaic to me .install I find fine but eventually the sealant will bond itself to the tyre upon removal etc
I've got mavic crossmax xls and it's liberating nit having to mess about with tape ...
It’s a bodge job that for some reason is now an industry standard.
@munrobiker, exactly, and I can't believe everyone doesn't see it this way. I think the Bontrager strips are perhaps the best solution in the absence of rim redesign. They really are nice, but finding one that fits is a total gamble with non-Bontrager rims
The Specialised strips are great, but unfortunately really hard, or even impossible, to get hold of now in the size I need (25mm -- I have some 26mm ones that I think are marginally too wide, but perhaps they'd be fine after a tyre installation)
I have some of the Effetto ones too, I'm just not convinced by them after my Hope rims punctured two of them (but may be that does implay it was the rims' fault)
@chrishc777, thanks, I've never tried DT, that's def one option
@kentishman, normally a skewer, but I've used a knife when being lazy in the past. I reckon this can def cause a problem
Gorilla tape is a massive pain to remove if you ever want to do so. I'm not using that again.
I've got 21mm rims on my cross bike, no problems at present. I think I'm using the Prime tape from CRC.
Road bike is on tubes, it's so straightforward....
Only thing I do that you didn't mention is putting in an innertube overnight after taping. I know some people think it's pointless but it "works for me"
I also like thinnish, flexible tape (like DT as mentioned above or I think the Bird stuff might be similar)
I do agree that (while I think it's great in many ways) tubeless setup is a faff
(adds: I melt a hole in the tape by heating a bradawl)
Why 3 layers of tape? I've only ever done one with a couple of spoke holes overlap at the valve. That's a pretty thick addition to the rim bed.
Nowadays I always do a wrap of electrical tape first (on a cleaned rim) THEN the rim tape... I found rim tape just doesn't stick nicely to rims... But with the electrical tape first it's a lovely bond...
DrP
@tthew, I thought two was recommended, but with the problems I've had I figured I may as well do three. I can't believe you manage to get away with one layer...
@scaredypants, yes, that is the one thing I've not tried. Perhaps I need to get hold of an old, non-tubeless tyre with a loose fitting bead and try it
@davidmoyesismydad, yea, it's a Mavic Allroad S I have on the front of the gravel bike and damn it is nice to not need tape. Also, the better seal means my sealant probably lasts longer
As tthew says - 3 layers sounds unusual, you'd need a special reason to do that like an odd-shaped rim bed. I use one layer for all wheel types.
That being said the air-loss you're describing sounds pretty typical to me and I wouldn't see it as a problem. Larger MTB tyres do retain good tubeless pressure ime but narrower road and gravel will often drop air over the week.
Are you overtightening the valve perhaps? I genuinely only ever nip it up with my fingers until the point that the valve spins with the nut.
I can't see anything else you might be doing wrong but like others above I've never really had issues with tape leaking and never really given it much thought.
Do you use tyre levers? Is there a chance they're catching or lifting the tape?
I also used a heated bradawl to melt a neat little hole through new tape rather than cutting or punching through with something angular.
To be fair, this is probably the first wheel on which I've used three layers of tape. I was hoping it would mean I didn't need to change it again as soon as I changed the tyre
It's also true that the air loss was bearable. I could have dealt with that, may be I could have just looked away when I changed the tyre and ignored the bubbling tape, but it really was quite extensive bubbling, didn't trust it at all. In any case, even if the air loss was bearable, it's so much nicer to have my front and rear tyres equally well sealed, partly to avoid unequal sealant expiration
As for the nut, that's a tricky one. When I installed the strip, I'd undertightened it at first. I guess this depends on the valve design (my current ones aren't symmetric so don't spin)
As for tyre levers, I very rarely resort them -- I haven't with this wheel
I can’t see anything else you might be doing wrong but like others above I’ve never really had issues with tape leaking and never really given it much thought.
Oh I envy you...
I generally had good luck with two wraps of Tesa tape, if needs be I'll overlap to either side to ensure it sits under the bead.
Gorilla tape is stronger due to the fibre reinforcement, and hence won't give so easily at the spoke holes, but it's porous and needs a wrap of Tesa tape over it to be useful.
Get the rim actually hot, like leave it on a radiator hot.
Warm the rim tape until its nearly melting.
Use a heated soldering iron for putting a valve hole in.
Ive got a Tesa tape off ebay, cant remember the number, its black and a bit stickier than the normal yellow stuff. Doesnt stick like gorilla tape but lets the tyre slide better.
spent nearly an hour cleaning it up with rubbing alcohol
Leave it overnight to dry completely, ideally a couple of days. Any moisture will cause tape to fail. You'll have hidden moisture in the spoke holes etc. Give it a blow out with an air gun or compressed air can and I guarantee loads of fluid will come out.
TESA 4289. £10 for a massive roll. You'll thank me later, particularly if it means not using Gorilla tape. 😉
Your usual reminder that the proper Gorilla tape for this is the clear stuff and not the fibre reinforced gunky mess.
Also Tesa tape is the best, if it doesn't work with that go ghetto with a BMX tube.
TBH, I've used normal black gorilla tape loads of times, and it works as well as anything else. If you wrap with leccy tape first you don't get the gunk mess.
Can you use the tesa tape on its own?
Currently have DT Swiss rims with muck off tape, working fine. Sun Ringle rims with lifeline tape working fine, and DT Swiss rims with Stan's tape working fine.
I know I'm amazing aren't I...
If clear Gorilla tape was available in 25mm I'd def use that -- it's sticky as hell and tough, I use it to tape wear areas on frames. But I don't trust myself to cut a 50mm roll down to width without it being too wiggly
It is Tesa tape that I've been using on narrower rims -- some black, quite sticky ebay stuff
Get the rim actually hot, like leave it on a radiator hot.
Warm the rim tape until its nearly melting.
Use a heated soldering iron for putting a valve hole in.
Ok, I have not done any of this but should taping a rim really be so hard? I guess at this point I'm so used to tape only lasting a few months (and not even working that well during that time) that I'd struggle to motivate myself to put in this much effort
Leave it overnight to dry completely, ideally a couple of days. Any moisture will cause tape to fail. You’ll have hidden moisture in the spoke holes etc. Give it a blow out with an air gun or compressed air can and I guarantee loads of fluid will come out.
Ditto to this
Although it's a fair point about moisture... Perhaps when I cleaned the rim I did leave a load of alcohol moisture inside it. Hmmm...
Currently have DT Swiss rims with muck off tape, working fine. Sun Ringle rims with lifeline tape working fine, and DT Swiss rims with Stan’s tape working fine.
@ads678, how wide as these rims? and at MTB pressures?
Bontrager rim strips really are the best:
May be there's a business opportunity in copying them but to fit common rim profiles from DT, WTB, Stans, etc.
Definitely try putting a tube in overnight, pumped up hard.
how wide as these rims? and at MTB pressures?
DT with muck off are 25mm I think usually about 25-30psi. Other 2 are both 30mm, probably about 20psi.
That Bonty rim strip looks cool.
OK, I think I normally manage OK with anything 25mm internal or wider. Certainly at 30mm taping becomes pretty easy -- until you pop a spoke and damage it from the inside... (which to tbf has only happened to me once in many years)
Yea the Bonty things are great. Completely solves the valve-rim interface thing, as well as being effortless to install, and not too difficult to remove to replace a spoke or move to another wheel
It might be the tyres. What sealant are you using?
3 layers is too much, it just leaves less room for the bead to seal on the rim. One layer with a bit of overlap has always worked for me and I've been swapping tyres every couple of weeks doing tyre tests. I use some "Stan's" tape I got from eBay. Not Stan's branded but the same stuff with various sealants, sometimes mixed brands depending on what I've been sent and how much is left in the bottle
@munrobiker, exactly, and I can’t believe everyone doesn’t see it this way. I think the Bontrager strips are perhaps the best solution in the absence of rim redesign. They really are nice, but finding one that fits is a total gamble with non-Bontrager rims
Mavic got things nearly right with UST 20 years ago - a superb first go at tubeless technology. I got a set on a new bike in 2002 and they worked great - even greater after sealants started to be understood as beneficial.
They were miles ahead of everyone but they just stood still with it for years - perhaps they thought that the unavoidable weight penalty of a sealed rim could never be surmounted in marketing terms. We all appreciate that weight is massively over-played for MTBs but it remains deeply rooted in the business of selling bikes to this day.
There were other issues but they would have been overcome given sufficient development - eg the rims were narrow, the OG UST bead was a square shape so tyres were somewhat restricted etc.
Specialized rim strip so much easier and cleaner. Not had an issues just line up the valve holes and it's done.
I tried to convince my somewhat old-school mate about the benefits of tubeless. He liked it at first then had endless problems with one wheel, being unable to get tape to stick and work. He ended up buying a new wheel which he still had to tape and it went up immediately and stayed up. So now he's happy with it again. The old rims were circa 2005 so not designed for it. When I ran tubeless back then I always used a rim strip but they're not that easy to get any more.
Have you tried putting the wheel in a bath of water? This will show you where the air is leaking from, if its coming through the spokes you know its a tape failiure ect
And there is no need for 3 layers of tape one and overlap a few inches.
Yeah Hope20FIVE tubeless user here. I've regularly had to retape these rims (Tessa tape - correct diameter) but eventually the tape pulls away from the rim and leaks out the valve hole. I've got to the point where it holds air pretty well but still needs regular topping up with air. This was achieved with scuffing the rim surface, heating the tape and putting a tube in. Never had any bother with mtb wheels.
Just slap another layer of tape on it. I use Tesa tape, the yellow stuff, about 25mm in my 20mm road rims. Seals any rims, not just tubeless and most tyres, tubeless or not.
Not sealing? Another layer of tape.
Duct tape in its various forms is ok but can go manky and is messy to strip off.
All my tubeless tyres lose around 20% a week. They’re either all (20) wrong or that’s just normal. It doesn’t bother me at all. On the commuter I pump the tyres on a Sunday and then it does the 250km of commuting and for the others, I’d always check the tyre pressures before setting off anyway, so it’s no big deal. I think it’s more than with tubes, but I’m having to cast my mind back almost 15 years to compare.
One layer for mtb, two layers for road.
Some rims need degreasing and scouring, some need a tube in over night.
Never had an issue, except for a pair of 231CD rims that i couldn't get a set of wildgrippers to go tubeless on.
I have however tried to build a rim with no inner holes. Never again.
The either end up heavy and a pain in the arse like the mavic USTs (with the double threaded nipples) or an utter nightmare to service and build with conventional nipples.
I don't think my three layers was a problem. I have a rim strip on now instead, which is working great, and I'm pretty sure it's as thick as three layers of tape -- and it still has a layer of tape underneath
I think the extra weight of a Mavic UST rim with threaded spoke holes is well worth it. I would guess that the extra sealant needed with a dubiously sealed set up equalises the weight pretty quickly -- unless you clean out your tyres more often. And the Mavic UST wheel sets are lighter than similarly priced DT Swiss wheels anyway
I would guess that the extra sealant needed with a dubiously sealed set up equalises the weight pretty quickly
Nah. I have a feeling the dubious sealing is not a widespread issue. And 95% of the sealant is there for the tyre carcass, not the rim/tape. Also, sealant is only about 25-30% solids, so you're not adding 50 ml to 50 ml when you top up after 6 months.
I think the extra weight of a Mavic UST rim with threaded spoke holes is well worth it.
No one who builds wheels does. Those nipples seize in no time and mavic are *incredibly* bad at supporting with spares.
Also, when you tape the rims, how are you dealing with the join in the rim?
I’m curious to know how people define tubeless setup success…
Seems to me that all tubeless setups lose pressure and it varies massively. One person may be regarding an overnight pressure drop of say 4psi from a road tyre at an initial 65 or so as acceptable whilst others may not so it’s all rather relative.
It would probably be helpful to many tubeless runners to have something to compare to.
Personally losing 4psi overnight from 65 psi originally is not what I would call a successful setup but I’m only basing that on the fact that I would have thought it should be better than that…
I think on an MTB tyre it’s likely to be a lot more favourable just because of the lower pressures involved however so on this forum perhaps there will be more success stories than failures. It really shouldn’t be this hard to get it setup though. Nowhere in any instructions for example (apart from forums with people who have experienced difficulties and found a solution) does it say you need to double or triple tape or use a soldering iron to puncture the valve hole and although I can see why these things might help they shouldn’t be necessary.
So in the interests of research, what tolerances for pressure loss do people think are acceptable and from what starting pressure are they basing this on?
I used to check my tyres before every ride when using tubes on a road bike, because I was using 23c tyres at 95psi so they'd drop pressure in a few days. So it's habit now I don't even think about it. So a bit of pressure loss is immaterial to me. My new MTB doesn't really lose any between rides that I can tell, my road bike loses maybe 5-7psi a week? Not sure.
Nah. I have a feeling the dubious sealing is not a widespread issue.
Not sure about that. A lot of people with tubeless seem to assume that pumping up your tyres before every ride is normal -- it certainly is for me on most set ups. My commuter -- only tubes I have left -- gets air in the tyres once a month I rekon. but my gravel bike every ride, same pressures. Surely this has quite an impact on sealant life? I certainly get a lot of residue building up in my tyres (using Orange Seal).
Are the Mavic rims that much heavier? They don't sell them separately anymore so hard to compare. All I've checked is that Mavic factory wheels are quite a bit lighter than DT Swiss, at the same price point. Also, once you add a rim strip instead of tape, I wonder if the difference is cancelled out anyway.
As for building, I don't build my own wheels so faff doesn't bother me. I'd certainly rather pay a builder an extra £30 to avoid me having to retape a rim two or three times a year...
I’m curious to know how people define tubeless setup success…
I'm happy if my tyres hold a reasonable pressure for week (with, say, about 10% pressure loss) -- very happy if they last longer than that
I consider it managable when they drop 10-20% pressure over a few days
I consider a set-up a failure if there is noticable pressure loss over a long day's ride, or if it can't even hold very low pressures of like 10-15 psi for at least a few weeks
I don't think rim strips are needed with modern rim beds as they seem to be designed for tubeless unlike older rims.
And re-taping rims? Really? What happens to the old tape?
The old tape will become cracked and separate over time. Dedicated rim tape tends to last longer than Gorilla tape for this purpose.
And re-taping rims? Really? What happens to the old tape?
For me, normally loads of air bubbles under the tape in the channel and potentially slight lifting at the edges
I normally assume this is why a set up isn't holding air that well, provided I have faith that both the tyre itself is air-tight and the valve is good
I check my MTB tyre pressure before every ride these days.
A lot of people with tubeless seem to assume that pumping up your tyres before every ride is normal
Errr, I check my tyre pressure before every ride, unless i rode that bike the day before, i've done that for near enough 40 years. Not changing now.
I've still got rims i taped 8-10 years ago on the original stans tape, probably 8-10 sets of tyres in that time. So there's probably something off with what you're doing. And yes, of course you hear about issues, because virtually no one says "yeah, tubeless was easy, it just went up".
Dunno where you get wheels built, because you'll be lucky to have a 30 quid upcharge for rims with a solid bed, more like 50 per wheel, it turns building wheels into a right pain in the arse, feeding nipples through, blind, from the valve hole. The mavics used to be about 100g heavier for the rim, plus the nipples tended to be (slightly) heavier. But it's years (decade+) since i've built one.
@mert When you check your pressures what do you find? Are they maintaining? What psi do you run at?
Errr, I check my tyre pressure before every ride, unless i rode that bike the day before, i’ve done that for near enough 40 years. Not changing now.
This. I never had a road bike with tubes that didn't need a few strokes of the pump at least every week. Nor an MTB with tubes, come to that.
I never had a road bike with tubes that didn’t need a few strokes of the pump at least every week.
Yes but that's different to every day and a few strokes is, what, 5psi on a road tyre - reasonable tube or tubeless loss over a week I would say.
There's literally no consistency as far as I can tell. 🤷♂️
Some people seem to imply that they are needing to top up every day and others once a week. Some just say every ride and then don't say how much 5/10/20 psi - also if you only ride once a month then you are bound to have to top up every ride..!
What's the story here it seems most odd? Do people just put up with large losses and then tell everyone that their setup is fine to avoid embarrassment or to score macho points or something?
Air loss over a week IS fine, for me. I don't care. It takes me about 90 seconds to top up both wheels. But it's always only a few psi anyway, it's not like they are going completely flat. Like I say, it's a habit I acquired before I started using tubeless.
I think my road bike is fine over a few days, but I always check anyway. There's always a chance I picked up a puncture which sealed without me knowing it, but that could easily result in a few psi loss. And I run them pretty low anyway at 57psi or so in 28c (because tubeless allows me to) so a 5psi loss is nearly 10% which is significant.
virtually no one says “yeah, tubeless was easy, it just went up”.
I'll say it 🙂 road bike with original wheels (bought 2 years ago so modern setup and tyres and pre-taped rims) went up straight away on Conti somethings, then I changed for Pro Ones and they also went straight up. I think I used an airshot for all those. Then I got Prime wheels, also went straight up with airshot. The Sunn Ringlé wheels and Maxxis tyres on my Reactor went straight up with just a track pump, and a narrow bore one at that.
There are two separate things here though, getting them to inflate in the first place and then keeping them there!
The former evidently a whole lot easier than the latter!
I’ve got a brand new factory taped set of DT Swiss road wheels with DT Swiss valves and 2Bliss tyres which I setup on Thursday and they went up with no issues at all - holding pressure, hmm not so great IMO as it’s 4-5 psi loss from 65psi in 24rs. I did all the stuff they recommend, spinning the wheel about on its side and doing a 20k ride immediately etc…
I’ve also got a set of DT Swiss MTB wheels and they hold pressure fine - I taped these myself using MucOff tape (although I hate most of their stuff the rim tape seems to be OK 🤷♂️) and I use Stans in both.
Someone did say that it can take 2 weeks to fully seal new setups so maybe that’s it.
It’s a dark art…😂
The former evidently a whole lot easier than the latter!
Not really, unless you mean 'stay inflated' to mean hold air indefinitely. No tyre does that even with tubes. Your car tyres don't even do it, you need to check them regularly.
holding pressure, hmm not so great IMO as it’s 4-5 psi loss from 65psi in 24rs
That can happen at first, but it improves. When I replaced a Pro One on my road bike it went completely flat overnight for the first few weeks, then it stabilised, now it's fine. Previous one didn't have this issue though, it stayed up straight away.
Someone did say that it can take 2 weeks to fully seal new setups so maybe that’s it.
Two weeks of regular riding yes. So maybe 4-8 rides?
When you check your pressures what do you find? Are they maintaining? What psi do you run at?
On the MTB between about 1,2 and 1,8 bar depending on the bike/size of tyre.
Usually lose between 0,3-0,4 a week down to 0,8-1 bar, then it can stay there, or thereabouts for weeks. Some of that loss is filling the hose when i connect the pump.
On the road (not much experience yet) i run at about 4,5-5 bar and lose about 1 bar or slightly less a week, only had them up for a month though.
IMV, losing pressure is only a problem if it interrupts a ride. As long as it’s consistent whilst I’m riding I don’t mind topping up regularly.
all pulled nice and tight, and pressed down hard enough to leave my thumbs sore for a few days
When I came to change the tyre this week, the tape is already a mess of air bubbles even though it’s only been on a couple of months
From a purely problem solving point of view it sounds like the tape might be too tight and retracts leaving bubbles/wrinkles
From a purely problem solving point of view it sounds like the tape might be too tight and retracts leaving bubbles/wrinkles
That could be true. But if so it kind of just demonstrates again that tubeless is a bit of a hack
A lot of advice is the opposite -- that tape needs to be pulled really tight to properly seal. And this thread alone has people saying that three layers is too much, and conflicting advice that if things aren't sealing to add another layer
I'm not saying tape doesn't work -- I have mtb wheels with wide rims that are fine. But it's often just a bit shoddy
On the checking pressures before everyride, obviously I always give my tyres a squeeze at the least and have done that well before the days of tubeless
I don't even particularly mind adding a bit of air before each ride. I just find it a bit crap that even an acceptable taped set-up can have such high air loss, and I assume this reduces sealant life -- someone correct me if I'm wrong?
Specifically, the set up I had that provoked this thread was running 700 x 45mm tyres, with the rear at about 28 psi and the front closer to 25 psi
The rear would be notably softer than the front just one day after a ride; the rear was taped, the front not as it's a proper Mavic UST rim (no holes)
A few days later the rear would be lower still, but the front seemed to have lost almost nothing
I’m curious to know how people define tubeless setup success…
I check tyres before every ride, and I'm normally putting 2-3 psi in them each week, Success for me is that they're not flat when I open the shed door.
I check tyres before every ride, and I’m normally putting 2-3 psi in them each week, Success for me is that they’re not flat when I open the shed door.
MTB or road, specifically 20-30 psi or 60+? 2-3 psi over a week on 60+ psi starting value is definitely a successful setup in my book. In fact 2-3 psi on a 20-30 psi MTB tyre is also in the realms of acceptable.
I assume this reduces sealant life
I dunno, I top up when I think of it, maybe 6 months or so?
I dunno, I top up when I think of it, maybe 6 months or so?
What worried me recently was removing a couple of tyres that I thought had still-functioning sealant in them, but which turned out to just contain discolored water
Perhaps it serves me right for just shaking them to check for sealant rather than popping off a bead to take a proper look, but given my record with tubeless tape I'm always hesitant to do that
It was Orange Seal Endurance, which should last 6 month min (and hadn't been in that long)
In fact 2-3 psi on a 20-30 psi MTB tyre is also in the realms of acceptable.
Yeah for me it's OK, I'm hooking the floor pump up to the tyres anyway, so it's no bother. I'd be looking a bit closer if it was going from (for example) twenty psi to single figures each time. I don't check sealant any more unless I'm changing tyres. which I do a couple of times a year anyway.
Oh, and forgot to say before, I only ever uses Stans, both tape and sealant, and valves when I need to I've tried others and always come back to it.
Ah I’ve mentioned it on a few threads but I’ve used ‘Effetto Mariposa Caffelatex Tubeless Plus 20-25 mm Strip 2 Units With Valve’
Caffélatex Strip is the ultimate tubeless solution for very difficult rims (for example, aluminum rims with mat surface finishing, rims with very deep channel, pin-joined rims where the junction is not welded etc.). This because Strip isn’t adhesive: it’s made in one piece and relies on its elasticity to sit tight on the rim.
Basically a tight rubber band as I was having tape issues.
I couldn’t get hold of the tessa tape that I’ve always found to work well and had gone thru various tapes but nothing seemed to work that well.