[Closed] tubeless or not????

Yes, you won't look back; worth doing if your heavy or not.

Only punctured once when I ripped a side way on a silly light tyre. Still got home with a spare tube and energy gel wrapper.

If you run pressures that are too low, you will still get pinch punctures with tubeless.

One of the best things I have done to the bikes in years. I could not go back to tubes now.

Quick fix try a little more pressure. I had similar issues when I got to Oz until my track pump arrived.

Years since i have had a puncture, running Mavic Crossmax and Rocket Rons and some milk.
Always use a ghetto inflator.

Never, ever will go back to tubes.....

If you run pressures that are too low, you will still get pinch punctures with tubeless.

Really?
I guess you could pinch the sidewalks of the tyre?
Does this really happen.
Just asking as I never heard of this, or seen it come through the shop.

Anyway... Orginal question... Tubeless is excellent. Best upgrade for a bike. I have not yet had a puncture whilst on tubeless, and I was a naysayer for years. A stans rep gave me a kit to try, which was a good move as I now sell loads of his product.

Charlie, it happens quite often if pressures are too low or you run the clumsiness at 11.

Tubeless is fantastic. I've only ever used 'proper' rims and have never had problems. You need to run proper pressures but punctures just become a thing of the past. I don't know if it helps but I did a guide over on my site, with tyres I've tried and a step by step to getting the tyre inflated. I think there's even a little vid to show how easy it is!

[url= http://www.basquemtb.com/going-tubeless-on-your-mountain-bike/ ]How to go tubeless including tyres I've tried etc. [/url]

I want to use it but I have never had a puncture seal. Used joes and stans. Seriously considering no sealant. Less weight,punctures just the same and no gloop to contend with when putting in a tube.
Its probably my crossmarks, just looking at them can cause punctures.

I also run conti tyreson Bontager rims and Ive been tubeless for about 2 years. Getto method. I swear by it, I ride the Dyfo forest and other areas that are prone to pinches, and I dread to say it...but I dont tend to get you know whats 😉

Go for it.

or you run the clumsiness at 11.

Good point,

and the basque region has more rocks than Dorset.

had the same problem went tubeless and its a thing of the past. Ghetto first, which worked fine for a year before buying a stans set up

Tubeless. Perhaps an hour of faff (or not, in my case) for better grip, faster rolling, much better feel.

I put a tubed rear on two weeks ago after breaking some spokes on my tubeless wheel, and the difference in ride is marked - and thats on a FS.

(must resist the urge to rage)

Tubeless is the way.

I have tubeless rims and Conti Rubber Queens on one bike. They're ace. No problems, no punctures, roll brilliantly, grip brilliantly.

I've just brought a new bike - it has tubes. Two rides, three punctures, Conti Rubber Queens feel wooden, rolls like it's in custard.

The reason I'm resisting the urge to rage is becuase the punctures are driving me nuts and the tyre response is really dissappointing. Stans is ordered and some UST rims (Crossmax) will likely turn up soon too.

I really, really, REALLY hate innertubes.

Is a pinch flat not a sign that your pressures are too low? I worry that by going tubeless you remove this safety net and risk denting rims.

I'm also toying with tubeless after getting 4 pinch flats on a descent off Ben Rinnes on Sunday. I thought I'd got the pressures pretty high as well but those water bars are a bugger and I can't jump for toffee. So, the temptation to buy my way out of the problem by going tubeless is definitely there. What puts me off is the difficulty of effecting a repair when it does go wrong in the wild (as it is bound to at some point).

Popping a new tube in (or sticking some patches on when I ran out of tubes) was a pain, but actually pretty quick. What I don't want is to be stuck miles from nowhere in the cold/dark/rain/sleet etc trying to get a tyre off a rim with a couple of bits of plastic while I slowly catch my death.

Cheers,

Andy

yes.

What puts me off is the difficulty of effecting a repair when it does go wrong in the wild (as it is bound to at some point).

Popping a new tube in (or sticking some patches on when I ran out of tubes) was a pain, but actually pretty quick. What I don't want is to be stuck miles from nowhere in the cold/dark/rain/sleet etc trying to get a tyre off a rim with a couple of bits of plastic while I slowly catch my death.

Why do you think it will be any harder to pop a tube in if you're running tubeless? If you use the conversion method with the tyres and rims you already have, then it's almost as easy to get a tyre off as when using tubes (with NoTubes rims and yellow tape, just as easy - still a totally tool free job with those). With the bonus that it's something you have to do far less often. The only real faff is having to check the tyre for all the thorns which the sealant has sealed before you puncture your new tube on them.

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You don't even have to take the tyre off!!!!I've had to use it twice in 4 years and the second time it took about 5 minutes to fix (and 2 minutes of that was pumping it up with a mini pump!!)

Do it!

I was in the same situation as you a year ago - going through inner tubes constantly despite 45psi. I'm not especially heavy but I guess I ride fairly hard. I dunno, perhaps I'm also clumsy? Change to tubeless and I can't remember the last time I pinched now - probably 6 months ago on lighter tyres.

A word of warning though - I tried to go for a lighter wheel set with light (ish) nobby nics with the assumption that tubeless was impossible to pinch. Wrong! I still got a couple of pinches with this strategy, and although less frequent than with tubes, it was more of a faff to reseal the tyres. So I changed to the larger and slightly heavier hans dampf tyres - no problems now. Tyre choice is still crucial though - ideally I'd like some lighter/narrower tyres but I haven't found the perfect choice yet.

I guess I'm thinking that, if I do it, I'd do it "properly" i.e. tubeless rims and tyres, rather than try and bodge something with my existing wheels/tyres (which seems to be when most people run into problems). Most of the stuff I've read seems to imply that proper tubeless tyres and rims are a pretty tight fit. But maybe I'm just not reading it right.

Cheers,

Andy

Yes, best thing I have done. No punctures for 15 months since going tubless, previously I think I must have repaired/replaced 30 tubes in the year before. It has been a painless experiance as well.

im running my tyres at around 28-30psi so there quite hard really and i weigh around 11stone i must just push it too hard?? well thats it then tubless is the future stans here i come!! cheers guys

I've had very mixed results with tubeless, when it works, it works well. However, you can still puncture and some tyres absolutely refuse to seal or leak, no matter what you do.

My xc bike rolls much better on tubeless tyres and losing 400g in weight is certainly a bonus. I'm running Spesh Captain/Storm on 719 rims with a Stan's kit and everything is tickety boo. My hardtail is also set up with a Joe's kit, again with Spesh tyres. Maxxis tyres seem to work well too, I've tried tubeless on a set of Ardents with good results.

If you're going to try them with Conti X-Kings then I'll save you the bother of finding out they don't work - you'll wind up with sealant spraying out of tiny holes in the sidewalls and refusing to seal. Kendas work okay, but the sidewalls die quickly, while Panaracers don't work very well at all.

My AM bike has sealant added to the tubes, which I normally run at 38-40psi.

I guess I'm thinking that, if I do it, I'd do it "properly" i.e. tubeless rims and tyres, rather than try and bodge something with my existing wheels/tyres

Though if you use a proper kit (or Stans rims) it's hardly a bodge. If you're not bothered about weight I guess "proper" tubeless tyres are a bit tougher, and as pointed out by Rorschach you don't even have to take them off to fix holes which don't seal (do those kits work on big holes in normal tyres too? had one which was a real pain trying to reseal at the weekend).

If you're going to try them with Conti X-Kings then I'll save you the bother of finding out they don't work - you'll wind up with sealant spraying out of tiny holes in the sidewalls and refusing to seal.

I've seen suggestions that scrubbing the sidewalls of Conti tyres helps a lot with getting them to seal. Though if you read the latest mag you'll see Conti now have their own sealant which should presumably work better with those...

while Panaracers don't work very well at all.

Maybe the case for (some) current ones - I did lots of miles running Fire XCs and Trailblasters tubeless back when the conversion idea was new 10 years ago, when Stan just provided instructions to tape rims and use art latex rather than kits.

For XC tubeless has worked pretty much flawlessly for me.

For A.M / harder riding I have had mixed results. Burping and unseating, pinch flats on the side walls, holes in side walls, dented rims and so on mostly on the back wheel. IMO it all comes down to PSI and to what system you want to deal with on the trail when it breaks. At the moment I run tubeless front, slime tube rear and carry a spare slime tube. For me this seems to be the most reliable and least messy to sort out on the trail..

roverpig - Member

I guess I'm thinking that, if I do it, I'd do it "properly" i.e. tubeless rims and tyres, rather than try and bodge something with my existing wheels/tyres (which seems to be when most people run into problems).

What I'd say to that is that tubeless rims make a massive difference, in reliability and in ease of setup. But tyres, not so much. I use something like a 50/50 mix of standard and tubeless ready tyres, and no USTs. The standard tyres can be slightly harder to fit, and occasionally might need a little more attention to get them to seal, but once up I've had very little bother from any of them.

Specialized have a really good approach, though- most of their range is tubeless ready (2bliss) and there's no drawback to it, the tyres are still good tubed but have that wee ace up their sleeve.

I reckon that every time i've had some sort of tubeless failure, a tube would have also failed, but there's been a hell of a lot of times that a tube would have failed but my tubeless hasn't. I use stans flows on my DH bike and after a couple of uplifts, the endurance downhill race at fort william, and then a week of uplifts with those wheels on the little bike in the alps, the rear had a load of little dings in it. 7 or 8- every one of those would have been a flat IMO, but instead I just kept riding. And there'd have been more, too, I reckon- that's just the ones that left a mark.

What I'd say to that is that tubeless rims make a massive difference, in reliability and in ease of setup.

I presume you're including Notubes rims in that, rather than just UST (given the mention further down)? In which case I agree with that assessment. I also agree that TL ready tyres are preferable (but not essential) - I think all Schwalbe tyres are that now, which is neat, and they do seem to be a bit easier to setup.

Oh yeah, should have been clearer there- I own some Flows and some Mavic 819s and once the Flows are taped, they really just act the same. No difference in fitting tyres or in reliability, IME. My Rovals are the same too (well, they would be, Specialized stole the design from Stans)

Not quite so keen on strip-converted rims, in theory my Bontragers were "tubeless ready" but in practice, it was just like putting a stans strip in a standard rim.

greenhelmet - Member

i seem to be having trouble with pinch flats i get one nearly every time i ride! im running conti mountain king protection 2.4 tyres on bontrager rims. so its either the rims or iv turn,d into a heavy rider cos i never punctured on my old bike. so do i go tubless or not?

stop riding like a clumsy oaf?

y'know, things like 'looking ahead to see where the bumpy bits are, and steering around them / slowing down / hopping over them if necessary.

like what we had to in the good old days when we had no suspension, and rubbish 2.1" tyres were considered 'massive'.

kids these days... etc.

Why do you think it will be any harder to pop a tube in if you're running tubeless? If you use the conversion method with the tyres and rims you already have

because most/all of the conversion methods involve wrapping layer after layer of leccy tape round the rim - to the point where it makes it all but impossible to even get the tyre [i]on[/i]...

Seem to be in the minority, but I've got no intention of going tubeless any time soon.
Never seem to struggle for traction at the pressures I run in my tubes and almost never puncture off road.
My road commute is a different story though, glass and swarf all over the place... 🙁

What I'd say to that is that tubeless rims make a massive difference, in reliability and in ease of setup. But tyres, not so much.

y'know, things like 'looking ahead to see where the bumpy bits are, and steering around them / [b]slowing down[/b] / hopping over them if necessary.

because most/all of the conversion methods involve wrapping layer after layer of leccy tape round the rim - to the point where it makes it all but impossible to even get the tyre on...

Does anyone do tyre mushrooms? Have used anchovies which feel like a bodge. Would prefer something a bit more properer.
With anchovies I really can't see that putting a big hole in a tyre where there was only a small one is sound practice.

So if you have the Stans notubes rims, what's the procedure for fitting and sealing the tyres?

Fall to your knees and plead with the tyre god that it will seal.

because most/all of the conversion methods involve wrapping layer after layer of leccy tape round the rim - to the point where it makes it all but impossible to even get the tyre on...

Well I've used 3 different methods of going tubeless, and none of them has either involved lots of layers of tape or huge problems with fitting tyres. Admittedly I've got no experience of Stans rimstrips, but I understand the current ones aren't hugely different to the Eclipse ones I have (which are no longer available). OK so the Mavic rims with rimstrips are a bit harder to mount tyres, but I still don't even need tyre levers on those.

So if you have the Stans notubes rims, what's the procedure for fitting and sealing the tyres?

Tape the rim, fit the valve, put the tyre on as normal, wipe the side of the tyre with soapy water, inflate with ghetto lemonade bottle compressor to seat the tyre (you can do this with a track pump, but it's so easy with the compressor I can't be bothered). Deflate the tyre, remove valve core, inject sealant through valve, replace valve core, inflate with track pump (should be easy now the tyre is seated), swirl sealant around tyre to seal it, put wheel on bike and go for a quick ride to help distribute the sealant. Leave for an hour or so to seal before going for a proper ride.

It takes almost as long to type all that as to do it.

Fall to your knees and plead with the tyre god that it will seal.

Tape the rim, fit the valve, put the tyre on as normal, wipe the side of the tyre with soapy water, inflate with ghetto lemonade bottle compressor to seat the tyre (you can do this with a track pump, but it's so easy with the compressor I can't be bothered). Deflate the tyre, remove valve core, inject sealant through valve, replace valve core, inflate with track pump (should be easy now the tyre is seated), swirl sealant around tyre to seal it, put wheel on bike and go for a quick ride to help distribute the sealant. Leave for an hour or so to seal before going for a proper ride.

It takes almost as long to type all that as to do it.

Cheers. What's the difference between a notubes rim and a normal rim?

I'm asking because I'm likely to replace mine in the next year or so, so was wondering if it was worth changing to Stans and going tubeless.

Cheers. What's the difference between a notubes rim and a normal rim?

I'm completely unconvinced that airtight designs (E.g. Mavic 819s) offer any advantage over a normal rim + tape - I've never heard of people having problems with spoke holes failing to seal. Plus most airtight rims have a significant weight penalty.

Proper UST rims are a bit heavier, but its just one less thing to not work in a tubeless set up.

After failing to get a stans kit to work on either DT Swiss 4.1s or Mavic 717's (with UST tyres) I gave up.

Bought a set of Shimano XT UST wheels and tubeless worked first time.

Another + 1 for Specialized 2bliss tyres. Relaible tubeless while saving a lot of weight over UST tyres

Proper UST rims are a bit heavier, but its just one less thing to not work in a tubeless set up.

Though you appear to be comparing UST with conversion kits, not UST with Notubes rims. Those of us with both Notubes rims and conversion kits will happily confirm that the kits are a bit more hassle and don't work quite as easily as Notubes tubeless specific rims. The only additional thing to worry about with Notubes rims over UST ones is putting a bit of tape on - not really all that difficult, and well worth the weight saving IMHO (given you seem pleased with the idea of saving weight on tyres).