[Closed] Tubeless on a road bike, worth it?

ask a few local roadies how often they get punctures with tubes

it's only worth it if that number is high, IMO (as it is round my way)

I could definitely see the benefit if I regularly rode outdoors during bitter temps, especially on rough roads/lanes, I imagine trying to change tubes or repair a tube in freezing temps could be a nightmare once you take your thick winter gloves off for some dexterity.

I’ve wondered this a few times as I’m tubeless on mtb - but then I very rarely get punctures on my road bike. Since I went Conti GP4000’s I’m not sure I’ve even had one puncture tbh - and I can’t even remember when I bought them so it must be a while ago

IMHO yes, absolutely. Been tubeless on both winter/CX/Gravel bike and best road bike for nearly 6 years and would not go back to tubes at all.

Mmmm...
Longtime tubeless mtb user here. Few observations about road tubeless - tyre choice is limited, they can be a REAL pain to mount, you need to use a sealant with more bits in (Stans Race) as the tyres have a lower volume than mtb so it’s a short window for sealant to plug the hole. Works well for thorns etc, but not for things >4mm. When that happens it’s a pain - Putting anchovies into a road tyre doesn’t seem to last unless it’s a sidewall puncture, the Stans arrow things rarely hold and the patches for the inside of the tyre only work when it’s dry (ie. not by the roadside and not when there’s sealant everywhere). So you still need to carry a tube, and getting that on can be a real pain (see earlier).
I think Stans race into a tube is a good medium for puncture reduction (obvs more weight etc) but again almost impossible to patch a tube roadside with sealant everywhere, but I seem to get fewer punctures than friends who don’t use sealant on the same rides.
Waffly way of saying it’s no way near as good as it is in a mountain bike 👍

Definitely worth it if you are using larger volume tyres at lower pressures I am running 32mm at 60 psi. If your tyres are smaller then you will need more pressure, and more pressure means its harder for a puncture to seal.

As long as I keep the sealant topped up with fresh it's all good stuff for road and CX/Gravel bikes. Big cut's on the road bike usually mean call the sag wagon as I've never got them to seal or repair at the roadside. That being said I have also ridden away from home on road tubeless with no problem.

Home has a problem with flints on the road due to water run-off and tubed marathon plus have a problem with flint too.

Being able to run lower pressures (80psi tops road, 60 CX/gravel) is a boon for all day comfort too.

tubeless definitely worth it imo. I reckon noticeably less rolling resistance, and much improved puncture resistance.

Definitely.

Big cut’s on the road bike usually mean call the sag wagon as I’ve never got them to seal or repair at the roadside.

Tyre boot and spare tube in that situation. It's happened to me once and I was able to finish the ride after fitting a tube.

I don't puncture on the road very often, but I was certainly grateful for tubeless on a wet night ride.

Been running road tubeless for a couple of years now

Has been great most of the time, had a few punctures that i hadn't realised had happened till got i home and saw small sealant marks on the tyre

One of the main downsides to road tubeless is if you get a puncture that is too big for the sealant to seal you get sprayed with said sealant which then can stain your nice expensive lycra

Some companies do a sealant stain remover (Caffélatex Remover)

Been running tubeless road for 6 years and 30000km. 2 punctures in that time. One must've punctured right near the office and the hole wasn't in a position for the gunk to fix it when stationary. The other was a good 5mm gash in the tyre. Fixed the latter by the roadside using an anchovy - never even had to remove the wheel. Prior to this I must've been getting 10+ punctures per year - at least 1 per month.

The newest generation of tubeless tyres also feel much better. back to back comparison of a tubed vs tubeless bike on the same wheels and tyres is a real eye opener.

I run it, but it's not the no-brainer it is for off-road. Just depends how many punctures you typically get - some roadies go 1000s of miles without a flat out on the open road. If you're more urban riding and flatting on the reg, though, then you should switch.

It can be harder to set up IME, less forgiving of a sub-optimal taping, some tyres are mega tight - things like that. I've never had a problem with a new mountain bike tyre going up tubeless going back years and years, but had a few battles with road set-ups.

You have the wheels so you should try it. But if it's a load of hassle or you don't like it for some reason then don't think you're missing out on some killer tech as far as road goes.

I went for several years with it being pretty good, zero punctures for ages, or could be fixed by just reinflating.

Recently I've been getting unsealable holes, but I think the tyres (Giant girvain (sp?)) are just worn out.

If you ding the rim by riding into a pothole, tubeless really won't work at all.

Not had a problem fitting or removing, so when it *has* failed, I've just put in a tube.

For a summer roads only bike I would argue no, I was already running a tyre/tube setup which has been proven to be lighter and faster than the equivalent tubeless setup (Continental GP4000 clincher and latex tube vs. GP5000 TL tubeless) and rarely if ever punctured.

Winter bike is currently 'winter' tyres (some OEM Specialized puncture proof jobbies) with latex tubes. They actually feel great and survived Hawthorne season, so I can't bring myself to change them just yet. Would consider some Pirelli Cinturatos tubeless as they sound pretty bombproof and would allow lower pressures for the dubious icy/cold days.

I even went a whole summer of (at times) fast and rocky gravel riding with 40mm tyres and latex tubes and saw no reason to go tubeless until Hawthorne cutting season started, then it was a no brainer...

Been running tubeless here over 18mths now. Setup is Mavic rims & tyres with stans race. No issues with inflating nor staying up. They have puncture twice (F&R) that I’ve had to fix with plugs - no big deal & seem to be holding fine. The pluses are extra comfort (15-20 less psi & more grip). Not sure I’ve found a downside yet..

I get maybe one puncture a year with tubes around here. Put in some decent mileage and racing.

On the mountain bike I was getting thorn punctures every other ride so it made it a no brainer. I've yet to be convinced to try it on my road bike. Tubes work well enough and I know that I can easily fix any problem I encounter. I've seen a few people struggle with tubeless. Removing tyres to put a tube in or dealing with a cut that wouldn't seal.

The jury's out for me. I didn't suffer alot of punctures with tubes but it is a PITA when you do so have converted to see how I get on. I've switched to tubeless but not had a puncture yet...that I know of. I'm running about 15psi lower tyre pressures for same width tyre, but am not really feeling much of a difference in comfort as the tubuless tyre feels so much stiffer comparing GP4000 to GP5000TR. Maybe if you went up a tyre width or two with lower pressures you might feel a significant difference in comfort.

Also experience form MTB'ing is that tubules is not puncture proof...so you will get a puncture that doesn't seal eventually, it's inevitable so you need to be carrying around not only a spare tube or two but some method to plug a hole that doesn't seal because the last thing you want to be doing is to be taking a tubules tyre off at the road side. It took me the thick end of 30 mins to get the tyre on in the comfort of my garage the fit is so tight I think I'd just not attempt it on a dark and rainy roadside and just call the mrs to come and pick me up...I'd have no chance. OK you might find a tubules ready wheel set and tyre combo where this is not a problem, but I haven't got the budget or time to buy several tyres to fit and see which combo works best. My GP4000'w went on fine on my wheel set but the GP5000TR are tight as hell.

So upsides are that in all likelihood some punctures will seal. However some wont and you can use a plug kit to seal, and in some cases you'll still need to bung in a tube.

Reduced tyre pressures may or may not be a benefit as far as your are concerned.

I'll stick with it until such time my tyres need replacing or I get a puncture and see if it seals or if my plug kit works. If the plug kit doesn't work then I see no benefit and will go back to tubes.

I've ran big road tyres tubeless, and by big I mean 32mm slicks and they were very good, lowish pressures and not a puncture in sight.

I tried it on my fast road bike with 28mm GP5000TL's on DT carbon wheels, and to be fair I wasn't impressed, possibly down to the tyres being fragile to say the least and an absolute bitch to get on and off the rim.

I had one side wall fail totally (Wiggle replaced it under warranty) and another puncture after riding through a patch of gravel, took me bloody ages to get the tyre off and get a tube in as the side wall (again) was sliced.

Over the period I ran tubeless (about 1500km), if I compare the ride stats to non-tubeless (Vittoria Rubino Pro and conti Race Ultra tubes) there is absolutely no realty world difference in average speed, average HR or perceived effort at all.

I've run tubeless for a couple of years. 28c Schwalbe Pro One tyres on Prime wheels (CRC own-brand). No issues with mounting them, they stay inflated well and the one puncture I did get (rear) I just put a tube in. The problem is that there's no real point in converting the rear back to tubeless, the tyre has a nick in it that's too small to bother with an anchovy but too big to seal properly and frankly the hassle of it isn't worth it. So now I have a road bike running tubeless front and tubed rear.

I will swap it back to tubeless when i get a new rear tyre though.

I've been tubeless on the road for a few years now. Mostly because I'm a sucker for silly low pressures so I tend to get away with it and punctures are sealed ok (i've used a couple of Dynaplugs though).

I've run tubeless on my winter bike for 2 years. First ride and

Been good since then, I wouldnt upgrade to tubeless but when I getting new wheels they are likely tubeless so might as well do it.

I converted my new Cube to tubeless just before Christmas. Fulcrum wheels, apparently they have only been tested with Schwalbe Pro One so I got some of those. Also got Stan's Race on the advice of a colleague running the same tyres. I taped the rim, first time I'd done it since I use strips on my MTBs. This was the hardest part. The tyre went up immediately, in about three pumps. Easiest tubeless I've ever done.

I am using 28c, whereas before I was using 23c on my old bike, but I went from 100psi to 65psi which as you'd expect is a massive improvement, and I'm no slower.

I think people have issues when they pump them up too hard. My mate used to run 120psi all the time (he only weighs 74kg) and pumped his tubeless up the same. And of course the first puncture didn't seal. But now he runs sensible pressures and loves it. It's not really about puncture resistance, more feel and rolling resistance.

@ransos With my contacts in and it being dark, that wasn't going to happen! I can just about manage in daylight (and have) but at night it's usually a cold wait at the side of the road while herself gets to me!

I don't see the point of tubeless on the road. Not likely to get punctures outside of hedge cutting season, it's no lighter and you wouldn't want to run snakebite-pressure anyway.

for big tyres maybe, for small tyres I wouldn't bother. Too many stories of tight tyres and struggling to fit on the side of the road when a puncture hasn't sealed

you wouldn’t want to run snakebite-pressure anyway.

The worst tubeless failures I've seen are people pinch flatting their tyres! Seen it more than once now so I'm being very careful with how low I go on my gravel and CX tyres...

It's nope from me, and I'm very happy with tubeless for CX and MTB.

I very rarely get punctures, and can swap a tube pretty quickly. My road tubeless experience is limited to a riding buddy who tried it. He got a puncture, we stopped, tried a tyre worm, made it half a mile before it failed again. Stopped a second time and stuck a tube in. Would have been quicker and less messy with a simple tube swap.

There's no need to run snakebike-risking pressures on the road, so much of the benefit of tubeless is gone anyway.

I also couldn't be bothered with keeping the sealant topped up. I'm sure I've had tubes that have gone several years without being changed.

My road tubeless experience is limited to a riding buddy who tried it.

I've been running tubeless for five years, and last summer I converted my second road bike (as it was having new wheels). In all that time I've only had one puncture that wouldn't self-seal, needing an anchovy. It's been fine since.

I wouldn't go back.

Thanks everyone, plenty of food for thought. It will be a summer only bike and punctures don't exactly plague me (that's me stuffed for tomorrow!)

Wheels are going to be Hunt's and tyres will either be Schwalbe or Conti's. I may have to look into tyre weights and latex tubes next.

I’ve done about 12k miles now and tried 4 different brands. I’ve settled on conti 5000 25mm and I’m running them 72/78 psi front/rear. Used anchovies a few times with no problems and have just left them in with no other repairs, putting an achovy in so quick, don’t even need to take the wheel off. Fast, comfortable and good puncture resistance. The only thing I would check is that your rims are truely tubeless in that the bead locks into the rim and stays there with zero pressure. My rovals say they are tubeless compatible but the beads drop off with no pressure. My wife’s JRA wheels don’t do this.

I've been running 32mm Hutchison Sectors on my winter road bike, they've been easier than some MTB tyres to live with. I've even picked up a couple of rim dings on the back which don't seem to have affected the seal.

I generally run them at 40-ish PSI though, I'm still slightly reticent to go tubeless on my the summer road bike 25c at higher pressures - the aforementioned Conti 4/5000s seem to go 1000s of miles without punctures in the summer. I finally got one in the latest rear when it had worn close to the canvas after 5000 or so miles, which is exusable imo.

I may have to look into tyre weights and latex tubes next.

It was the road.cc review of the GP5000 tubeless tyre which referenced a German magazine test which in turn showed the non-tubeless GP5000 to be marginally lower rolling resistance and weight. There was virtually nothing in it but was justification enough to stick with the 'simplicity' of tubes for me.

Wheels are going to be Hunt’s and tyres will either be Schwalbe or Conti’s. I may have to look into tyre weights and latex tubes next.

Go for Schwalbe.

Conti quality control is woeful. Somehow they seem to be the tyre of choice - ask on a forum what road tyres and everyone will be banging on about Conti. IME they're a bastard tight fit on most rims and of extremely variable quality.

Years ago when still running tubes I bought a load of Conti tubes on CRC, mostly just to make the price up to a point where I could use a discount voucher. Every single one of the tubes failed - not punctures just tubes splitting. I've worked as a guide on several events and tours and far and away the most problems are Conti tyres. Part of it is because they are popular; loads of people use them therefore the law of averages says that a puncture etc is likely to be on a Conti but by the time I'd fixed the 18th Conti that law of averages was beginning to wear thin.

I’m more tempted to go for some of the new aerothane(?) tubes for my winter roadie that runs old school skinnier wheels, if I had a more recent model with the wider tyres I’d be more inclined to go tubeless.
Caveat, when i say winter roadie, i don’t actually own a ‘summer’ roadie!!!

I run tubed road and will be going tubeless a go for gravel.

My winter bike has 28c tubed tyres and I run them at 75/80 psi. They're pretty light and I can't see the point in going over to tubeless as I've seen some of the hassle my friends have had. I don't get that many punctures and a quick tube swap and squirt of CO2 has you on your way again rather than faffing like a fish fetishist/porn swallower/bondage freak...

Gravel will go over to tubeless primarily for traction as I'll run lower pressures than at present which are ~45/50 psi. Hither too (what a phrase...) I've run tubes with Stan's jizz in them for the best/worst of all worlds. Few punctures but not really low pressures. I was sold on tubeless watching a chum find traction where I could find none. Same gearing/tyres/technique etc.

So road, no. Gravel, I'll give it a go though on that sample trip above, another chum had to borrow a spare tube as his tubeless set up committed Hari Kari...

Due to sealant buildup on a Presta core I had a slow leak that I didn't check on before a ride. Tire ended up low and as I had bent the valve core at some point my mini CO2 head didn't release properly so I had to push the bike home 3 miles (the HORROR!!!!!!).
As the tire had completely deflated I popped it off the rim to clean out the mud and crap that had accrued during the walk of shame.
Through the tyre carcass I found 12 thorns of assortend lengths. All capable if drawinf blood. 2 did.
So yes. Tubeless for me. Swalbe Road one thingies at 25MM.
The SS has Conti 5000II and has not let me down.
Both set up a year ago. Local commuting and 'gravel' and Berkshire Ridgeway riding.

Yes but mix your sealant properly. I use hunt wheels and currently GP5000. Stans and a small amount of OKO agricultural sealant for the fibre in it. Generally without some fibre behind it you wont seal a hole with 90 psi behind it.
Worse case it will spit some fluid at you until it seals.
Been a tyre fitter for 33 years so I guess I should know what to do.

IME they’re a bastard tight fit on most rims and of extremely variable quality.

Conversely my gravel tyres are Conti Terra Speed. Went on tubeless ok and up with the track pump when new. 2300km on and they are baggy as a wizard's sleeve. 5 wraps of tape to re-seal the front after a puncture and it took 3 weeks before it would hold above 3 bar overnight.

Tubeless off-road tubes on for me - done the last 3k miles with only one puncture so not convinced of the benefit. Also not convinced on the lower pressure argument, I run 30c at 65psi (LB carbon wheels) with a tube without issue (I’m 85kg); don’t see why I’d go lower.

Well as predicted by myself, mention that i don't suffer from punctures that often and i got one on today's ride, typical! First one in more than 18 months 🙄

To ask a related question, how long would you expect a tubeless setup to stay reasonably inflated if left to sit in a garage. I know pressures will drop but my Trek Checkpoint rear wheel drops to near flat within 5-6 days (when not used). Pressure to begin with was around 45psi on a Vittoria 37mm gravel tyre.

Generally without some fibre behind it you wont seal a hole with 90 psi behind it.

Don't put 90 psi in. You don't need to, and most systems are only rated to 70psi anyway. I think most people who have problems are running too high pressures.

I run tubeless since getting new wheels (Scribe) and use Vittoria Corsa G+ (Summer) and Corsa Controls (Winter). Not had a puncture so that's all good. Downsides? Well, they're a faff to mount, the sealant still gums up the valve. Plus, frankly for me the lower pressures argument is a bit of a nonstarter. I run mine about 75-80 psi but I only ran my tubed Corsa's at 90 psi, so it doesn't make much difference. You can go lower, but makes the bike handle weirdly IMO when cranking it over downhill. Bearing in mind the tubeless version has a stiffer sidewall, the ride quality is basically the same.

I've really not noticed any difference between tubes and tubeless if I'm brutally honest as I didn't puncture that much with tubes, maybe I was just lucky. I also don't commute so only weekend fun rides which probably helps since I get the better end of the weather spectrum.

I am getting a new winter road bike at the weekend, a 2021 Giant Contend AR1 - it comes with tubeless 32c setup. Will be interesting to see if I can feel the difference from my other road bike which has 28c with tubes. Not too sure what pressures to start with, weighing in at 12.5 stone. On my Fugio I have tubeless 650 x 47 and tend to run them at about 35psi for a mix of road and gravel.

To ask a related question, how long would you expect a tubeless setup to stay reasonably inflated if left to sit in a garage. I know pressures will drop but my Trek Checkpoint rear wheel drops to near flat within 5-6 days (when not used). Pressure to begin with was around 45psi on a Vittoria 37mm gravel tyre.

it depends on how uniform the rim/tape/tyre bead is and if the tyre carcass is leaky.
i have a new set of handbuilts with light bicycle rims and i inflated a new pair of hutchinson fusion fives on them without any sealant or washing up liquid. this with just a track pump. they sat there at 100psi for 2 weeks and were still rock hard and overinflated when i deflated to fit some sealant. oddly the front which i removed as it was on the wrong way round would not inflate, bit of washing up liquid and it popped straight on.

been a road tubeless convert for the last 6-7 years, would never go back. first wheels were easton RT with the curved rim bed and no spoke holes/tape and schwalbes, didn’t have any problems with those but the light bicycle rims are really easy to get a tyre up with a track pump. only had one rim/tyre need a trip to LBS and their compressor and that was a DT with a hutchinson fusion.

Not too sure what pressures to start with, weighing in at 12.5 stone.

I'm closer to 13 stone and run 50psi in 32s, in fact I think I even ran 45psi for an especially cobbled ride. That's with tubes as well so I'd guess you could safely start at 45psi and see how it goes.

I definitely noticed the benefit of lower pressures and higher volumes on that ride, the bike absolutely skimmed along the cobbles, was great fun.

My tyres lose a out 10psi in a week, but I was used to pumping up my 100psi every ride anyway so no difference for me.

You can go lower, but makes the bike handle weirdly IMO when cranking it over downhill.

I've not had this, but my wheels are 'gravel' supposedly which means they are a bit wider. Similarly to MTBs it seems that low pressures, bigger tyres run tubeless and wider rims all have to go together to get the benefit.

To ask a related question, how long would you expect a tubeless setup to stay reasonably inflated if left to sit in a garage.

I lose 10-15 psi over a week.

A quick update on punctures and the Gravel Bike. I had been running Stan's Race sealant in the front since the last puncture and Muc Off in the rear. On Friday I had a 4mm cut and a second puncture on the way to work. Tyre pumped up at the end of the day and slowly deflated to around 2 bar on the ride back home.

I have replaced what little Muc Off was left in the tyre with Stan's and it went up and sealed the hole and held pressure overnight. The Muc Off seemed to be ejected from the hole while riding as there was none of the usual rhythmic air loss sounds going on as I rode along. The tyre is up for replacement soon as most of the knobs are very well worn.

EDIT Fortunately I get them trade as the tyre has done 2600km since new and may struggle to reach 3500km! Very grippy in use but soft as a soft thing.

Fortunately I get them trade as the tyre has done 2600km since new and may struggle to reach 3500km! Very grippy in use but soft as a soft thing.

Is that Conti black chilli compound?

I've got something close to 2000km out of a set of Vittoria Terreno Dry, the rear is almost smooth in the middle, although there was barely any tread to begin with (Vittoria call it 'fish scales', I would say it was just cosmetic but have also been pleasantly surprised with the grip considering the 'scales' are only about 0.5mm deep when new...).

Maybe 2500km is about the going rate for tread on a gravel tyre?

Mixed like lower pressures and roll great but I ride suburban roads and shared trails to get put of city and glass cuts a problem for me...had to abandon a couple of rides and cut a ride or two short because couldn't get seal with tachos and couldn't just pop in a tube with very tight fitting...looking for road / gravel maybe a bit heavier but cut resistant....and jizz all over is not a good cafe look

@13thfloormonk Yes that's Black Chilli compound. They are Terra Speed 35mm tyres and roll quite well.

I’m not convinced. The issue I have with it is that if you do have a puncture that won’t seal its game over for a lot of tyre/tim combos. Take for example the gp5000. I’ve tried mounting them on 3 different carbon rims with no joy. Actually sent the first back as assumed it was faulty, but replacement was as bad. If it takes me an hr to wrestle on a tyre in the warmth of my garage, screw trying to do it at roadside.

Rolling resistance wise, The difference between a tubeless setup and a latex tube is minimal, you have far more tyre options with a tube, and although you don’t get the same puncture protection, roadside fixes are far easier

@tpbiker - why would you need to take it off at the roadside? I’ve been road tubeless for 5-6years and have yet to even have to remove a wheel to fix a puncture, never mind the tyre.

WRT mounting them. Stick them in a bucket of hot water for 10mins before trying to mount them. It helps.

I’ve got GP5000TL 32s on 3 different carbon wheelsets and they’ve all gone on okay (for tubeless), even on very wide rims.

I’ve been road tubeless for 5-6years and have yet to even have to remove a wheel to fix a puncture, never mind the tyre

I've twice been on rides when tubeless converts have had to resort to tubes.

I've been on two other rides where tubeless folks had endless trouble with Darts etc. coming loose or leaking, or old repairs re-opening etc.

I'm not anti-tubeless, have just enjoyed 2 trouble free months on my CX bike, but I also wouldn't be comfortable with any setup where I couldn't easily just stick a tube in to get me home.

Really? I figured (and my experience so far) is that once an anchovie is in, it seems to weld itself to the tyre. A few hundred miles later it basically is the tyre. I can't even see (from the outside) where my two repairs were on my Hutchinson Sectors. Both of these happened when commuting, both in the dark and the bloody wet, as is typical of such things, but once plugged and rotated a couple of times and then pumped back up to about 70% of normal pressure, they were fine to get me home. the next day I removed the valve core, topped drew out what remained of the old fluid, added new fluid, rotated and pumped back upto normal pressure. I did consider adding some superglue to the outside (I do carry it in my gear, but mostly for repairs to myself rather than the bike) but figured it would just go brittle, so left it.

My non-sealing puncture problems are mostly self-inflicted and revolve around failure to maintain sealant levels (or poor sealant choice). The Friday one worked just well enough to get me home though the tyre was a bit squirmy on corners towards the end of the ride.

The replacement Stan's held pressure for the whole day (I checked before cycling home) and again overnight (usual half bar loss due to bead sealing not fully complete). It also helps that I'm using a correctly sized tape on the rim.

One of the biggest cons is always cost of new tubeless system, but if youve already got the wheels anyway then why not give it a shot for the sake of buying valves and sealant (presuming tyres are tbr or have still to be purchased)

Imo it's a worthwhile upgrade

I went tubeless on the road bike for a few years. Had loads of trouble with punctures prior and was looking for the ultimate solution. It was better but i still got punctures, over time i got into the habit of sticking a tube in when i did get a puncture and then not bothering to ever replace the tube. So a few years on when it was time for new tyres i just bought standard non tubeless. This was a commuter bike and i had a tip to try the conti gators - basic wire bead ones. Those with tubes were the best performer for non punctures i have ever used. The only tyres i have fitted on the roady and had on for well over a year with no puncture. I ended up selling that bike and dont think those gators ever punctured. When (if) if ever go back to commuting i would go straight to that set up.

@13thfloormonk

I’ve twice been on rides when tubeless converts have had to resort to tubes.

I’ve been on two other rides where tubeless folks had endless trouble with Darts etc. coming loose or leaking, or old repairs re-opening etc.

I’m not anti-tubeless, have just enjoyed 2 trouble free months on my CX bike, but I also wouldn’t be comfortable with any setup where I couldn’t easily just stick a tube in to get me home.

Why cant you use a tube to get home when there are issues with a tubeless? I think one of the benefits of a tubeless is that to get you home you dont have to pull out the old tube and store it some where, you just need to keep hold of the valve.

If it takes me an hr to wrestle on a tyre in the warmth of my garage, screw trying to do it at roadside.

My Schwalble Pro One on Fulcrum 77 DB popped on as normal. In fact, much more easily than some tubed combos I've had. I have tyre levers in my pack now all the time though. I'm considering a little bottle of sealant.

Why cant you use a tube to get home when there are issues with a tubeless?

I think he's saying that it's too difficult to get the tyres off when they are tubeless.

I also used Pro Ones and no different to pop on off than anything else. I see the point for ones that you really need to battle.

Why cant you use a tube to get home when there are issues with a tubeless?

I was responding to Daffy's post suggesting that it WASN'T a problem being unable to take tyres off easily, my point being that I'd prefer the ability to be able to stick a tube in to get me home.

First test I did with my Vittorias before going tubeless was making sure I could mount and dismount them by hand, although I'll usually resort to a tyre lever out of laziness.

This thread is an interesting read, there seem to be a few variations in terms of use case and real world experiences...

I suppose the first question really has to be what is the actual reason for fitting tubeless to a road bike?

It’s not really about puncture resistance, more feel and rolling resistance.

^^That's the overiding Impression I get.
Does road tubeless perhaps suffer from people overselling the wrong benefit? i.e. puncture resistance/sealing...

With tubes the (on average) one flat a year I get is on the rear (more of my bulk on it) and is either due to letting a tyre go a bit long once it's worn or, more often, catching a bastard bit of flint and putting a cut through. Which is probably where tubeless falls a bit short anyway.

If there's a risk of having to fit a tube, I really don't want to be wrestling with a tight fit by the roadside either...

But if it's mainly comfort, grip and rolling benefits I can't help thinking that tubeless front, tube in rear might be a sensible trade-off? I know I already benefit from a wee bit less pressure in the front helping with general vibration and fatigue of my neck and shoulders, and I know I can live with the risk of having to fix that once a year rear flat...

Is there a "third way"?

I’ve twice been on rides when tubeless converts have had to resort to tubes

Yep, my experience as well, twice not sealing and plug didnt worked.. Tbf schwalbe pro ones are reasonably easy to get on and off but getting then seated again properly (afyer fitting tube) is not great, but that's probably my wheelset more than the tyre.

Gp5000s are a whole new level of hard to fit however. I couldn't manage it with 2 levers, inside, after I'd warmed up the tyre, with an hr set aside to do it. Apparently some wheel manufactures recommend not using then as they are so tight they can damage wheel trying to mount.

I noticed that my new bike with 65psi tubeless tyres seems remarkably fast above say 50k0h.on descents. It keeps on accelerating beyond what I'm used to, or it feels like it. A product of more supple lower pressure tyres on rougher roads perhaps? Or an illusion?

Anyone else notice this with nice supple tyres?

It’s not really about puncture resistance, more feel and rolling resistance.

The thing is, tubeless isn't necessarily faster rolling OR more supple (or lighter, for that matter) than a nice clincher with a latex tube. I can certainly vouch for that after the best part of a year riding gravel and CX with latex tubes in nice clincher tyres.

So the benefits really are just puncture resistance. I didn't even go tubeless on the gravel bike until I spent my autumn picking hawthorne out of deflated tyres.

Not dumping on tubeless, I'm quite happy with my setup now that I've committed, spent the money and suffered the inevitable steep learning curve (complete with bad tempered STW thread 🤣 ), I just think the benefits are often mis-sold.

Well after all the debate i have decided to give tubeless a go, i'm starting with new tubeless ready wheels and i need new tyres anyway so have just decided to embrace the technology and see how it goes.

I mix between tubeless and tubed on the road. Interesting piece from Jan on rolling inertia of tubeless https://www.renehersecycles.com/myth-7-tubeless-tires-roll-faster/ I put a few thousand miles on a pair of 30mm Corsa control tubeless this last year on varying terrain. And picked up a few of these buggers in the process
https://flic.kr/p/2kEiW7X
I always carried a tube and a small bottle of sealant in case things went bad and needed both. The sidewalls of both tyres were torn after some rough stuff that was totally outside their design parameters. I patched them internally but eventually the sidewalls let go at the carcass after too much pressure to get them to seat.
https://flic.kr/p/2kEeQXT
Wasn’t cross at that point as they were just about dead from tread wear. I’m back on tubes now in another pair of Corsa control non-tlr and they’re great. Will be going tubeless again for more audaxes when allowed.

I’m tubeless now on road bikes. My winter bike has Bontrager Aeolus Pro carbon rims, can get clinchers on no problems, Pro Ones and Bontrager R3 tubeless go off and on with a battle. Not sure I’d get a tube under the tyre without pinching it with the tyre lever.
I used to have Reynolds 60mm carbon wheels, what an absolute faff they are. Neither tubeless or clinchers went on easy. I’ve been by the side of the road fighting with them for 45 mins to get the tyre off. (GP5000 clincher) At home with the tyre remover tool it was only a 20 minute fight per tyre. Put Pro One tubeless and decided if I ever got a flat that didn’t seal with dynaplug then I’d be phoning for a pickup.
My replacement wheels,Bontrager XXX 60mm carbon wheels are easy for clinchers but the Pro One tubeless will be a battle to get off should I need to. Conti 5000 tubeless were impossible for me. (I only have limited use of my left arm and pretty much no grip, so I’m restricted to what tyres I can use)

Re feel- the Schwalbe Pro Ones are also apparently somewhat armoured, they have what they call a V-guard layer, whatever that does. Perhaps they needed to add it to make it feasible? I don't know. Does anyone have any anecdotal evidence about the relative puncture susceptibility of Pro Ones vs other tubeless tyres?

It may be that the tyres themselves are tougher than those tubed tyres that compare in terms of RR.

Interesting piece from Jan on rolling inertia of tubeless

Hmm, it cites testing but doesn't mention method , tyres tested or results. But it also says that with the right technique it is possible to seat tyres without a compressor - I would say this is more down to the rim/tyre combination than technique. So not the best article I've read.

The bicycle RR guy does publish methods and stats, and his results show that there is not a lot in it between the best tubed tyres and tubeless.

@molgrips I’m not sure if it was the bicycle RR testers who found latex tubes increase RR in comparison to butyl tubes? Sure I’ve read it somewhere recently.

Hmm I dunno, that would be rather confusing and intriguing if true!

road.cc quoted a 1.2W saving when using latex tubes in GP5000 clinchers vs. the GP5000 tubeless.

They went on to emphasise that this was with latex tubes, but didn't give a number with butyl. Inference was that using butyl would reduce or eliminate the saving.

Bicycle Rolling Resistance also quotes Latex tubes as being faster than butyl.
In fact I’ve not seen one study saying the opposite?

Benefits to me on the road are more supple ride (65psi is easier on me than 80/85 minimum needed with tubes) and the pinch/thorn/cut puncture resistance (with the correct sealant).

I suspect that if I tried those low pressures with latex tubes I would be an expert in mounting/demounting tyres in next to no time.

Bicycle Rolling Resistance also quotes Latex tubes as being faster than butyl.
In fact I’ve not seen one study saying the opposite?

I suppose the next obvious question has to be what relative level of benefit (in terms of comfort and rolling resistance) can be achieved with just Butyl tubes, wider non-TR tyres and wider rims?

I've just (an hour ago) fitted a wider, Tubeless ready, front rim on my road bike and just put the old 25mm Conti back on with the same old butyl tube, putting a calliper across the tyre it now comes up as ~28mm wide, I've scored some extra volume and I'll be playing with pressures again anyway. I had been toying with splashing out on a 25-28mm TR tyre, but now I'm half wondering if life would be easier and I'd see at least some useful ride improvements if I just popped a Latex tube in a non-TR tyre.

I'm not exactly on the high performing end of the scale anyway, and a tenner on a posher tube as a little experiment is entirely justifiable, where dropping £40-50 on a new TR tyre is a bigger spend when I'm not totally sure I'd benefit...

Wait til you wear one out, that's what I'd do. Except I didn't 🙂