[Closed] Tubeless mess! Please help...

Excuse the weeds and the crappy gnome. Here is the result of 2 hours of swearing, sweating and much scratching of head...

My method...

Apply tubeless tape.

Fit one side of tyre.

Fit tube

Fit other side of tyre

Inflate tube

Leave overnight

Deflate

Remove tyre from one bead.

Remove tube

Fit tubeless valve

Fit tyre in second bead

Pump

Once seated, remove valve core and insert fluid.

Refit valve core

Pump to required pressure

Do the Stans jiggle

So far, I've never needed the fancy airshot pump thing I bought, a standard track pump has always worked.

Hmm interesting, hadn't thought of putting a tube in after doing the tape. I don't have a valve core remover so I'll have to get one and give it a go.

Thanks for the tip!

I'll have to scrub the residue off everything and start over. That's if there's any left in there as most of the bloody fluid leaked everywhere

Laying it on its side like that won’t work. My method with difficult ones is to get it seated without any sealant in first and if it’s being a pain then soapy water with loads of bubbles brushed around the bead works every time.
Depending on your sealant you can then quiet it in through the valve or alternative pop a section of bead off ops don’t pour it in. I hang the wheel upright off the back of a chair to do this.

The inner tube helps seat one of the beads and also helps the tape stick down. The WTB valve cores come off with a pair of fine pliers, not a valve core remover. If you have a close look at the valve you'll see the machined flats,

Badger? Is that you?

I feel your pain, I was in same position 2 weeks ago. As scotroutes says above, defo helps if a new tyre putting a tube in and leave overnight. Even so, tried and tried with track pump, no joy. Airschot did it first time,every time. Quick and easy, no mess even pouring Stans direct to tyre as opposed to filling through valve.
Tredz 45 minus 5 internet voucher. Well spent 40 quid, but took a week to arrive.

Got to say I do what scotroutes suggests, infact I think it's his advice that I went by when I first went tubeless a few years back.lol

Laying it on its side was a last resort as the fluid kept pissing out the bottom with it upright.

I did try pumping it up without the sealant but air was coming out so I stupidly thought fluid might help.

Does the bead pop on to the rim early on or do you need to get a decent pressure in the tyre before it pops?

Air seemed to be coming out around the valve area. It was better if I held the pump against the valve and the tyre against the rim with one hand, but then I couldn't pump fast enough with the other! I even tried tying a shoelace around the tyre and rim near the valve...

I've also found that using some washing up liquid really helps recalcitrant beads move into place easily.
I also have my tyre stood upright.
I too don't use airshot thingy, and only occasionally have a faff.

Thanks all, I'll have another go tomorrow and report back, assuming I don't lose my temper and throw the thing over the back gate

Don't touch the fluid until you've figured out what it takes to get the tyre seated.

How loose are the tyres? If they're very loose, use a tyre lever to pull the beads outwards and get them seated around as much of the rim as you can.

If they're only a little loose, try pressing the tyre gently above the valve when inflating. This can help spread the beads enough to get them to seal.

Interestingly, I've never had any luck with the "seat one side first" technique. I've had tyres that'll go up fine starting with both sides seated, but not with one fully seated.

Does the bead pop on to the rim early on or do you need to get a decent pressure in the tyre before it pops?

You should find that it seals after just a few strokes as you get enough air in that the beads are pushed outwards and seal against the edges of the channel. You can then pump much more slowly to build enough pressure to get them to seat, which may be a little or a lot depending on how tight they are.

Don't start with the sealant until you have the tyre well seated on the rim. It should (mostly) hold air apart from whatever escapes through the sidewalls etc. If it isn't inflating properly then adding sealant won't help. I use the Scotroutes method. New tyres are much helped by being inflated with a tube in first to encourage them to be type shaped. Lots of washing up liquid to help the bead seat correctly is also good.

I use a track pump and find that works ok.

Spoke key often works well as a core remover.

I have wrestled some pretty reluctant tubeless ness by gently pulling the bead on bit by bit while pumping one handed.

Done it loads then I just got an airshot and wondered why I didn't just get it as soon as it came out 😀

That's very familiar, I've been ghettoing tubeless for years and have been there this last weekend, poor quality electrical tape did for me.

FWIW Scotroutes has it, the only thing I'd add is that it's uniform pressure from within the tyre and rim that helps pop it on the rim, a splash of soapy water around the bead will help seal the join as you inflate.

Thanks everyone. I think I'll have a go with the back wheel first that isn't covered in goo and work out what is wrong before I get sticky white mess everywhere again. It'll look like a gnome orgy by the time I'm finished!

I always struggled with tubeless - dt Swiss tubeless ready rims (whatever that means) and Spesh 2bliss tyres.

Got a Lifeline combined track pump/tubeless inflator from Wiggle for about £45 and it made the task soooo much easier.
Can't believe it took me so long to get one.

Good luck mate.

All I'll add is that once mastered tubeless really is great. I'm a pretty new convert and wish I'd tried tubeless years ago now.

Isopropyl wipe before tape to degrease rim.
Keep tape under tension during install and use your thumb to stick it into the rim trough and Smith it on the the shoulders after. This will eliminate any bubbles and creases once you figure it out..
Wife's hairdryer to stick it down good and proper.
Isopropyl wipe of inside of tire and tire bead to get rid of the silicon mold release.
Bead tire with trackpump or compressor for the baggier combos or thinner sidewalled rubber.
Sealant through valve.
Core in, inflate and go

An Airshot or compressor will save you endless messing around. Take it to a petrol station and inflate it there (just be prepared to make a quick getaway if it blasts sealant all over the forecourt.)

A lot of people will initially inflate the tyre without the valve core in - this allows a quicker/easier flow of air into the tyre to initially pop it into the bead channels on your rim. Replace the valve core, pump up to about 40psi and leave overnight to settle. Remove the valve core again, put tubeless solution in (I use a syringe I bought for about a quid off ebay, minus the point metal bit obviously) and pump to higher pressure. Shake wheel around to coat inside and bobs your uncle.

Fwiw I've now got an airshot. Some people make their own out of an old coke bottle but I've also seen some nasty pictures of when that goes wrong... I used to do ghetto tubeless using inner tubes with great success as well - I'd not go back to tubes. That first time you notice a puncture seal itself will blow your mind! Soap/air compressors make things easier for stubborn tyres, but don't exceed the recommended max psi for your rim. My friend has a chambered track pump which is also good. Can you borrow one, or perhaps take your wheels to a bike shop just to get them initially seated whilst you wait?

Good luck!

My method (ooerr!)

Unpack tyre and leave overnight to let it get shape
Clean rim
Apply tape, this is the bit you really need to make sure you get right.
Fit tubeless valve
Remove valve core
Mount tyre (make sure you get the direction right!), try and get the beads as close to the rim edges as possible.
Inflate making sure the tyre is evenly set all around the rim - if there's a section that looks different then it usually means that bit of bead hasn't mated with the rim so you either need a bit more pressure to pop it on or retry getting the bead further towards the rim.
Add sealant through valve
Replace valve core
Reinflate
Do the Stans shuffle
Go for a ride.

Some tyre/rim combinations are much easier than others but I've had the same tyre on the same rim being both simple and frustrating.

An airshot or tubeless tank pump will make life a lot easier. I’ve had a go at popping tyres on a rim with a normal track pump but it’s never worked for me.

I had an ‘airwave’ pump from CRC but it only lasted a year and a half before something went pop inside. CRC refunded me under warranty with no quibble so I assume they’ve had some issues.

I replaced it with an airshot and wish I’d got one to start with. It’s very easy to use and popped a slightly troublesome tyre on that I’d been struggling with a bit.

I normally tape the rim, and then just put the tyre straight on tubeless - I haven’t needed to put them on with a tube first - although I can see how that could help if you have a tyre that’s been folded for a long time.

I don’t put sealant in at the start - I get the tyre popped onto the rim then put the sealant in through the valve with the core out. I have previously popped the tyre on the rim then unseated one bead just enough to pour fluid in then reseated it - but it’s easier to just put sealant in through the valve from my experience.

Make certain the rim tape is airtight. The crap that came on my WTB runs pissed out everywhere.couldn't understand why at first. Took it all off and used gorilla tape. Worked first time. I hung the wheel in the air and poured the sealant in the bottom of the tyre, then used a compressor to pop the bead onto the rim. No bother at all. How much sealant are you putting in? I used about 90ml on my 27.5 and about 110ish on my 29er...

Check the bead is seated or at least covering either side of the valve so air isn't just blowing out past the sidewall.

And get a compressor / air tank pump and make your life easier. The Lifeline / Airwave does a good job.

As others have said. Just get a tubeless inflator (airshot etc).

It makes your life easier and you dont have to worry about swapping tyres in the future.

Id rather run tubes than try to inflate with a track pump.

And just to reiterate, soapy water does wonders. I have an old Dettol spray bottle that I use to spray soapy water round the rim/bead interface, you'd be amazed how many stubborn tyres have gone up just by adding this step

The problem is that reflector. Remove that and they will seat first time.

if you are having trouble getting it to hold enough air to retain its shape a cord or ratchet strap around the whole tyre helps push the bead out onto the rims

Had a nightmare with a recalcitrant rear wheel over last couple of months. Double set of tape, inner tube to bead - oh, and check for tiny air leaks - the tyre had a couple of either defects (round the lettering) or gorse punctures.

It's all good now, I din't faff with seat one bead then other FWIW. Didn't even need to report to Airshot -- just a rapid pumping action (ooooo).

And yes, Badger where art thou?

I use those CO2 cartridges, less than £1 a pop

Fit tape and valve, fit tyre splash of sealant at the bottom before slowly rotating to top to pop bead on

keep upright with valve at top and sealant pooled in tyre, don't splosh the sealant everywhere or it all comes out again.

try with track pump

if no dice then use CO2 cartridge or two

pump up really hard to pop bead on properly

do the shuffle, imagine slopping the sealant around all the inside of the tyre usually a bit of a leak around valve at first

drop pressure

go ride

I don’t have a compressor but from what I’ve read it should be possible to get air in with a track pump?

Not with a WTB based setup ime. In the absence of an Airshot (or similar) the seating with a tube technique would be my next approach too

If the tyre isn't even looking like popping on it might be too loose. Was it hard to get on? I would suggest trying a second layer of rim tape.

Turn the wheel upright,

Place tubeless sealant inside,

Roll the sealant around the inside by rotating the wheel, keep it vertical, but give it a jiggle as you rotatate,

Turn the valve to the 7 o’clock position

If the tyre is loose, try and stretch the tyre onto the rim bead by hand all around the wheel.

Place a little weight on the top of the wheel to compress the tyre top and bottom,

Pump as fast as you bloody well can with a track pump.

I’ve got an Arkose D3, I’d never done tubeless before but got mine set up. The key things for me were lots and lots of soapy water and full strokes on the track pump not little short ones. I didn’t put the sealant in until after I’d got the beads seated.

I would suggest trying a second layer of rim tape.

This.

Cheers all, I've tried the tube method on the back wheel this evening so will see how that pans out tomorrow...

I haven't read the replies above but your pic made me smile.

My mess looked exactly the same as yours until I gave in and bought a Specialized Air Shot thing, which was life changing.