[Closed] Tubeless is no good for hardcore mtbing

I've just spent a week in Les Gets, both myself and the wife ran tubeless, granted we don't ride DH bikes but we ride AM. We rode all the DH tracks fine but admittedly didn't hit the gap jumps. I found tubeless fine especially as I was riding past people on DH bikes with pinch flats! I had one burping incident in a week and apart from that all was well.

I've managed to burp a rear tyre once. In it's defense it was an old front tyre I'd retired (geddit) to the rear and is 8 years old!

So:
8 year old tyre
non tubeless design
landing a hipped drop
landed cross rutted
still had enough air in it to get to the bottom
went straight back upto normal pressurre again with a mini pump

I reckon I can forgive it 🙂

Rob Warner always comments that the pro DH racers don't use tubeless on the rear ever because they hit the turns so hard it always causing burping. Some use tubelelss on the front though.

Until a few weeks ago i was a convert, a few incidents two ghetto, one stans.

Incident 1 and 2
SDW rear wheel slid on an off camber wet chalky bit into puddle, tried to keep it on line and tyre burped big time. That was ghetto, at about 35psi.

Incident 2 as above but a week later on another ride.

Incident 3

different bike, entered a berm fast leant in as usual, front tyre peeled off rim, end result face plant and sore ankles, that was stans rim strips on an en521 rim and maxxix HR at about 30psi.

prior to the first incident i'd had 5 months of fairly rough off road riding without incident, hence decision to buy the real kit and move on from ghetto.

Notice how anyone who runs tubeless has a list of excuses for when it didnt work.

Or even better, a longer list of how they got it to work in the first place and now after much faffing, pumping, jiz assisted, compressor inflated rim swopping, they finally find the right combination of equipment/technique.

I feel its a win for marketing.

There are other examples of things like that. 29ers for example.

I run tubeless. It has never not worked, ever (18 months & counting). No burping, no sidewalls rolling, nothing. And that includes a fortnight of black & DH alps trails (Les Arcs, Tignes, La Rosierre). I do, however, use proper UST rims & tyres. No weight saving, just no flats and more grip. win/win imo.

Rondo101 - couldnt have put it better myself

i havent burped a tyre since using proper tubeless conti tyres at recommended pressures

I do, however, use proper UST rims & tyres. No weight saving, just no flats and more grip. win/win imo.

+1

There are other examples of things like that. 29ers for example.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....ha

great pics. what's the fail rate with Stan's rims, vs UST rims?

Meh. Tyres fail. Tubes puncture. UST tyres burp.

I was a big non believer of tubeless and have just come back from two weeks in the Alps and have almost no issues.

Got a puncture one day (out of 14) and didn't notice it until it was totally flat and the bike at me off. With a tube it'd have spat me off faster.

I'm actually very convinced that having both the dh and xc bikes as tubeless is the right thing. But that's for me.

(from kimbers link) Who is this handsome chap on the right (2nd pic)

http://www.mtb-forum.it/mobile/single.php?post_id=24160

No probs with UST rims with UST tyres for me either.

I feel its a win for marketing.
There are other examples of things like that. 29ers for example.

Just because something isn't for you, you can't simply dismiss it as a "win for marketing".

I don't get football! Clearly I'm in a minority though...

I've had one tubeless related issue in 8 years, caused more by lack of maintenance (sealant had dried out and I'd not topped it up) and a thorn, which caused the pressure to drop a bit and then I burped it. Non UST tyre too, so I was tempting fate a bit. Use proper UST tyres and top the sealant up every few months and all is fine in general.

I'm no pro DHer though, I have used tubeless successfully on a DH bike for plenty of DH riding though.

or his mechanic didn't install it correctly?

Rob Warner always comments that the pro DH racers don't use tubeless on the rear ever because they hit the turns so hard it always causing burping. Some use tubelelss on the front though.

And just to illustrate his point the next rider down pulls up with a tube wrapped round his cassette....

I'll accept that no tubeless solution from ghetto to UST is utterly perfect but they all seem to work better than the tubed equivalent in terms of getting fewer flats...

That relatively few DHers have adopted it doesn't suprise me it's still far from ideal for serial tyre swappers....

tubeless is shite on my car too. I've had one puncture in the last 22 years of driving, utter shite.

It's always a balance between things, fairly sure I know where that pic is and a sudden loss of front is going to throw you off v fast.

To be fair to tubeless, in those pics it does look rather like the rim has broken, front wheel doesn't look too round. Whether that happened before or after the tyre came off is of course anyone's guess.

Rob Warner always comments that the pro DH racers don't use tubeless on the rear ever because they hit the turns so hard it always causing burping.

maybe they should all use foam core tyres, they never flat, according to the ads I see. cool colours too.

I use UST tyres on UST rims (819's & 823's) on my trail bike & DH bike for about 5 years now & I've never had a problem.

I've tried non-UST tyres on UST rims and not had any problems except getting them to pop onto the rim. Once on they've been as good as a UST tyre. I think the rim along with correct pressure is the key.

+2

I do, however, use proper UST rims & tyres. No weight saving, just no flats and more grip. win/win imo.

Never had a problem, just back from Andorra Val Norrd. I run Maxxis LUST 20 - 25psi.

Glad STW's World Cup Dh's have stepped up with their personal experiences now.

Warners point was that at the speeds "THEY" are going there is an issue.
There is also an issue with pinch flats hence the swapping between.

As for real world who cares, neither work when the rim snaps, Upper slopes of Alp d' heuz has a nasty reputation for going through dual ply maxxis if it wants too.

I don't have much problems with tubes as well, a few punctures a year, solved in barely 5 minutes.

i think the constant tyre swapping is probably more of a turnoff for dhers than anything else

also im assuming that nicos rims are carbon, he had a carbon 916 at the mega a few years back i think it had carbon rims too

carbon vs ally any better or worse for tubeless?

They dont burp if you give the bead a quick going over with tub glue before seating 😉

[i] I do, however, use proper UST rims & tyres. No weight saving, just no flats and more grip[/i]

This. Anyone know what Nico's setup was?

from an enduro earlier in the year looks like easton carbon rims and maxxis, not sure if tubeless specific?

[img] [/img]

The thing about pros is that they're always looking for that little edge over the next (equally fast) guy. Almost certainly he was running a non-UST single ply tyre with no rimstrip on the lightest rims he thought he could get away with for the weight saving/reduced rolling resistance, and relying on skill to keep it intact. Sometimes it just goes wrong.

Me? I've learnt over the years what I can and can't get away with. Single ply non-UST tyres are a no-no - they squirm around and burp too easily unless run daftly hard. Proper USTs are fine on both ends of my hardtail or the front of my big bike for trail riding. A non-UST dual ply with a rimstrip on the back of that has been faultless, even when I've properly flatspotted the rim. Not exactly light though!

the front and rear are definately the DH casing in that pic, cant see that its tub specific - do the maxxis ones say LUST?are those easton wheels tubeless too?

edit - they are definately tubeless specific rims

http://www.eastoncycling.com/en-us/ec90-xc-26-771