Trying to get to 4w/kg

Plus new gp5000s on there which are supposedly quicker than the gp4000s that I’ve just taken off as the rear started to delaminate a bit and had gone rather flat on the top.

Will be interesting to see how the carbon gravel bike frame feels vs the previous alloy caad12 disc frame. It’s got a huge bb area and chainstays vs the caad so thinking perhaps it’s going to be stiffer (my previous boardman team carbon was stiffer I’d say too) but the handling will probably be a bit lazier into corners etc.

Lovely! GP5000'S are so nice they feel like cheating 🤣
I got my Diverge warranty replacement frame back today. Not sure if I prefer it to the original carbon colour but still, it's got all new bearings, futureshock cartridge and a new rear calliper so should feel nicer again for a bit.

Ooo, that looks nice. I’m not a tanwall fan but on totally black colour bikes I think they work. Got some tanwall Billy Bonkers tyres on my black bmx for that reason!

I’m getting a craving for a power meter on the Dolan - torn between a 4iii left sided only one as I can get a good price on a left Ultegra arm with one already fitted - or those favaro assiomo uno pedals 🤔

I have a 4iiii on the MTB and it’s been great 👍🏻

Never tried any of the pedal systems.

@crosshair Yeah it takes me a couple of sessions before I can settle in to threshold efforts, I don’t use ERG though so it’s just a matter of pacing and finding that 👌 cadence.

VO2 after a couple of days on it is nuts though, given the idea is to accumulate time above 90% MHR it’s daft to go in without a decent days recovery.

Yeah, I actually feel sorry for Trainerroad if that’s the way people are tackling their plans 🤣

I definitely had a psychological breakthrough earlier in the first interval earlier when my mind came to terms with the fact that that intensity *was* sustainable. And my HR dropped for the next three.

This is the workout I did last night - was meant to do an hour but didn’t have time so did a 45 min alternative that had a slightly higher progression score instead. Decided I was managing the 319w intervals ok so started turning it up a bit towards the end to make it a bit harder. Last one was just over 400w and although it was hard I reckon I could have done a few more at that level.

I found in the new bike I seemed to be able to spin faster easier - wasn’t sure if it was because it was after work and I’d fuelled all day vs early morning workouts just on a banana or yoghurt. Also realised I changed crank size from 172.5mm to 170mm on this bike. Decided to go with cranks the same size as both mtbs 🤷‍♂️

Walking the dog this morning my legs do feel a little bit tired though so must have been a decent session.

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Awesome, well done Joe 👍🏻 Are they 30/30’s?

I like to pick my last interval up a bit at the end too. A 30mph lap of Hillingdon is about 2mins so I always imagine the bell going and racing the final lap when I have 2 mins of a set to go.

You may find TR undershoots what you can do on those sorts of intervals. You want to be going as hard as you can but that you can sustain evenly for the entire set if that makes sense. But there is also merit in being conservative and having one eye on your next ride so I never used to bother cranking up a TR workout.

Friel calls it risk/reward. The reward of doing them all at 400w is obviously a bigger adaptation response. The risk is you aren’t recovered by your next workout ⚖️

30/30’s yes. I think turning it up towards the end worked ok - but I think if I turned it up from the start perhaps I might have struggled more towards the end. Guess it depends how much I turn it up though!

Tonight is probably a chill mtb with a mate who is quite a bit less fit than me so slightly tired legs shouldn’t be a drama. Tomorrow I’ll weight train or swim so the legs get a day of recovery before sweet spot on Friday.

I suspect my legs could take more than I throw at them fitness wise but equally I don’t want to break myself as it’s just mainly boosting fitness for mtb rather than racing.

I am eyeing up booking an enduro race near Plymouth in October though if Incan get it past the wife to vanish early doors and get back late.

I’m getting a craving for a power meter on the Dolan – torn between a 4iii left sided only one as I can get a good price on a left Ultegra arm with one already fitted – or those favaro assiomo uno pedals

I've got Faveros (on both sides) and very pleased with them - good battery life, pretty much fit and forget. Obviously in theory you can swap them between bikes, but it's not something I'd want to be doing daily.

4iii on the road bike single sided don't see the need for double sided. Also can easily swap to my winter bike as they are both Shimano. Never had an issue with it except on those rides the coin battery gives up it goes a bit screwy.

TR V02 I don't turn the power up at the end I just increase the RPM trying to keep it above 120. More recently I've stopped doing this. Get the specific work done and walk away as Crosshair says.
I do TR ones outside as well on a shallow hill at the end of the road. 5x 30 30 gets me to the top. Power is typically 10 to 15% higher than I do on the turbo for no other reason than I don't have ERG holding it back but it is sustainable through the hour. Did my first one of the year on Sunday after being ill.
Trying not to use the turbo anymore this year unless the weather is really bad.

I just stuck 165 cranks on the TT bike that I train on @joebristol - they're recommended for anyone running an aero-belly in that particular discipline. Position-wise very promising, but plain power I am not sure. Did a sweet spot session that felt way hard but might have just been a bad day.

But a lot of folks get good results from shortening the cranks.

@joebristol You could try switching ERG off and going hard early...will get the HR up earlier and you're hopefully spending more time >90%

Obviously you'll need to pace it well which will be a bit of trial and error, power will likely fade towards the end of the set but so long as you don't drop right off HR should remain high.

@haze I haven’t tried the turbo at all outside of using erg - I keep thinking about having a go on Zwift in which case racing I’d have to use the gears. I imagine it needs more discipline than erg mode to stay in power zones on TR…

It does, takes a little bit of trial and error...once you have a gear and cadence that gets you in the right area then it's pretty straightforward to replicate.

It's all a trade off. On the one hand, not using ERG is (maybe) more flexible. On the other, when you are used to seeing crisp graph lines, an au-naturel workout looks like a shambles 🤣 That can be tough to deal with mentally.
Although 30/30's are a good candidate for no-ERG anyhow.

ERG is one of the things TR has done insanely well and when I had a Zoom call with Jonathan Lee once (don't ask why 🤣) he said it was pleasing I had noticed (how good their ERG is) as they have worked really hard at fine tuning the experience for every trainer.

Zwift ERG isn't as good but will let you float above or below a little. I had it set at 320w last night but was able to average as high as 342w for one of the intervals without it continuously correcting me, it just kind of resigned itself to giving me that resistance in that particular gear 🤣

Good for some things, not so much for others...I find it a little subjective tbh and always do my Z1/Z2 in ERG (whilst keeping an eye on HR)

Threshold stuff I like to pace, give you a good feel for your threshold and how long you can actually hold it for.

Actually do my shorter VO2 stuff in ERG but make the first few reps hard to spike my HR, then reduce to ride out the set. Longer efforts (3 on, 3 off etc) I lean more towards ERG off to avoid the death spiral should my cadence drop!

Yeah that is the trouble. I did gradually downshift through the entire cassette at one point last night to keep my cadence up and was like strewth, better stand up and sprint to get enough momentum back in the flywheel to shift up again 🤣

Weather and roads are minging today so I’m probably gonna head round the Pretzel route on Zwift. It’s usually about 2h45 in zone 2.

Dumb trainer and powermeter here so no ERG (use Trainerroad). I don’t find it an issue - you can smooth the power data by selecting it to average over a short defined period.

Up to 3.45w/kg this morning…..

Weather and roads are minging today so I’m probably gonna head round the Pretzel route on Zwift. It’s usually about 2h45 in zone 2.

Plodded around the route at basically Z1. I need the volume in my legs but also wanted to recover from yesterday and prepare for tomorrow. Friel mentions in his book how you sometimes need to mix conflicting objectives into one ride during build as there's not enough days in the week for everything 🤣
I did the epic KOM at 206w and the reverse epic KOM at 230w but everything else was just tapping along at low HR.I haven't done one since Zwift 'routes' were a thing so it was good to tick it off.

Back to Vo2 tomorrow! Prob shoot for 4x4min @ 380w and adjust once I see how painful/achievable the first one is.
If I can find a slot in the weather I'll head out on the gravel bike and do them. Possibly commute over to a hill and do them as the ones nearby are mostly sub 3mins.

How do you keep your mind interested on that long a Zwift ride at low intensity? Fair shout - sounds like some almost zone 2 endurance whilst also recovering.

I did a blip off road round the local trail centre bits - no real hills and with a less fit / slower mate. Had a good chat and social but then I did a bit of sprinting from corner to corner - I haven’t ridden the hardtail so much recently as I’ve really being enjoying the Sentinel since I coil shock / cascade linked it. Front end nailed grip wise with a 2.6” Magic Mary but the 2.6” Forekaster on the rear (bit worn at that) was all over the place drifting. Ace fun.

Not sure what I’m doing tomorrow - maybe a back and biceps weight session before back on the turbo on Friday

Awesome, sounds fun 😀

So yesterday, I wanted to tick off a route badge. (Sounds cheesy but it’s surprisingly motivating).
I set off and just let my avatar follow the course. (I guess it’s like the difference outdoors of riding blindly off down the street or programming a route into your Garmin. You kind of feel obliged to follow it).

Then I had a 90min podcast on I wanted to listen to.

After about an hour, I was bored but not uncomfy so I lied to myself that I would get off at x minutes or at y miles a couple of times (and then you just keep going) 😀
By that time, I was so far around the 45 mile/4500’ loop that it seemed silly to quit and have to do all that first bit again another time.

Another thing that helped was doing a couple of centuries on there. Now anything under 5hrs feels easy 😀

Finally- I don’t think this ride would have been any less “boring” outside 🤣 Sometimes you just have to commit to the work.

It’s kind of back to the ‘ride slower to ride faster’ thing isn’t it. Maybe it should be ‘ride more boringly to ride more excitingly’ 🤣🤣

Oooo, down to 75.6kg this morning. Don’t know if perhaps I’m a little de-hydrated or whether that’s genuine. Not too far off my target of 75kgs though. Just need to find 45w per kg extra now 🫣

Hey that’s great news ⚖️ 💪🏻 😃

Found a gap in the rain so went out to try the Diverge. I missed it 🤩 It’s so chunky and comfy and stops properly and GRX shifts lovely and big tyres make so much sense on our awful roads.

Turns out it wasn’t a gap in the rain at all- I got soaked twice 🤣

Anyway, I did my 4x4 Vo2’s as hill reps. Up Whitchurch hill twice, then Pangbourne hill and then finally up Streatley Hill. (Ironically my pb’s up those hills were from a very similar workout in 2017 when I was training using Friels Book 🤣).

It was one of those rare good-legs days and I ended up hitting 430, 398, 398 and 407 (but those two in the middle would be 400 if I’d pressed lap at 4.00 not 4.01 🤣)

Even better, I feel amazing. Despite the rain I wanted to carry on riding!! Next task is to recover up for Saturday though so I resisted and went home.

If someone had told me I’d feel this good today when I was getting off the turbo yesterday- I’d have punched them in the mouth 🤣🤣

The weather is awful at the moment - got properly soaked last night too. For road I’ve just bought a better cost that I need to try out and see if it’s as breathable as it claims whilst still being waterproof - Gorewear Active something or other. Need to fill / bleed brakes before that though.

I can imagine bigger tyres and a forgiving frame are a game changer - there’s one descent off Lansdown Hill (between Bristol and Bath) that is scarred and rutted even though it’s a main road - felt like I had to really back off down it on the caad12 as it jarred through the front. Hopefully the GXC will make lighter work of it.

Sounds like you smashed your numbers out the park - strong work 💪

Oh cool! I don't have much good waterproof gear. I like my Gabba but it's too hot from about now onwards.

It’s interesting looking at the other guys from Saturday’s ride on my Strava feed since then. Everyone was fairly equally smashed by the end it seemed and yet some have done some impressive high intensity in the meantime.
I’ll be curious to see how they fair next weekend, as I definitely needed the easy time to absorb Saturday’s training stress, so my guess is that I’ll improve relative to them but let’s see!

Another one went pop tonight 🤣 He left an admission on his Strava that he had over exerted himself after his FIFTH fast Zwift group ride or Race since Saturday 💡🤣
(And they were padded out with pace partner warmups too 🤯 )

Unlike on the internet, I keep my coaching opinions to myself IRL but sometimes I feel baffled by what people do given the huge wealth of information available online.

Although maybe the same could be said of me and the weight loss side of the equation 🤣🤣

indoor ftp, ftp higher when cycling uphill, don't care not bothered, watts is watts 😂

did an hour Tuesday Z2 when I didn't think I'd squeeze anything in that day, then Wednesday everything seemed to catch up with me, did the school run and thought, I'll have an hour, get up, do some jobs and do a couple of hours while watching Dwars door Vlaanderen, slept from 930-2pm, so that buggered that, took it as a sign to rest, slept well last night and did uni today, felt fresh this evening so thought I'd have a smash up the Epic KOM on Zwift, not done anything over Z2 since March 2nd I don't think, weighed in at 80kg flat in my indoor riding kit, so happy with that, all time low Zwift weight

did 24:53, average power of 289w (293w for 20 minutes, so FTP from 263w > 279w)

and thats with nearly 90% of my yearly riding in Z1/Z2 after 6 months off, bonkers

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Ye-ha that’s fantastic @dirtyrider 👏🏻
Well done! 😃

It’s exactly what DrISM says will happen innit- get the slow twitch mitochondria functioning well enough and they’ll trough as much lactate as you can feed them when you turn up the gas 💪🏻

I’m almost looking forward to post ToC on June when I can get back to the Z2 🥲 🤣

Ugggh not much inspiration coming from the sky is there!
Not sure what group rides are heading out tomorrow but I'm not going to have a smash-up this week. The Sunday group are doing a century-ride so I plan on having a volume weekend instead.
Probably take the diverge on the gravel tyres tomorrow and hopefully get 3-3.5hrs in and then stick the road wheels on for Sunday and do the century on that (as it has all the SWAT storage for co2 and pump and tubes and lots of bottle and food etc) 😀

You’re a sucker for punishment going out for a long road ride in the current weather - fair play!

Turboing tonight after work then rest day tomorrow as I’m off drinking all day at the football 🥴

Yep. Weather crap.
Had a 90km ride last week planned & sacked it off for getting the mega-pretzel ticked off, on Zwift. A good 4 hour ride, but would have rather been outside.
Desperate to get some more miles in on my new Camino before the dirty reiver.

I will try to get out this weekend, come rain (or shine - yeah, right).
Tempted to get an ass savers Win Wing mudguard for the Reiver. Looks like something you can fit & forget for much of the winter.

Not sure what group rides are heading out tomorrow but I’m not going to have a smash-up this week

No idea what's happening tomorrow a planned trip to IOW seems to have been binned...I might head out for a couple of hours to get the legs moving again...off to Mallorca on Monday 😄😄

Oooo lovely, that'll be nice ☀️
Yes, I had thought I might go to the IoW as have never been.
If we all had any sense we'd start with a 9:30 coffee and set off when the massive rain cloud clears Newbs at 10:15 🤣

If we all had any sense

Counts me out!!

Bottled it today. I am having a shift around of bikes so I put my race bike onto Turbo duties and then wanted to test it out.
The weather was wet beyond the forecast cut off point so I’m pleased I made the right decision- I haven’t mentally recovered from that 5h 2/3rds solo MTB ride in the rain the other Saturday 🤣

I found a nice 68mile group ride and joined the C’s (to align my Z2 with the pace) and I ended up averaging 210w for 2h40. With my warm up ride, that made another 3hrs in the bank.

At the end, another guy read my mind and decided to try a breakaway. It wasn’t a race but he said he was going to see how long he could stay out in front. I decided to have a go instead and once I had a gap, it took 360w to do 25mph which probably isn’t far off!
What’s inflationary about the group speed itself (Vrs real life) is that *nobody* ever seems to actually have to do those 360w on the front. Just rolling past the lead rider generates the draft that then sucks everybody along. Still, it helps the imaginary mileage tally go up quicker 🤣

Then the original Harry guy who suggested it had a crack and got a better gap with a few miles left so I decided to try and bridge. That was insanely painful and to eventually get on his wheel took a minute at 475w at which point we both sat up and got caught soon after 🤣

I am feeling pretty trashed now but need to get an early night for the group century tomorrow.
It should be fun other than the 04:45 alarm 😭

You're a banana 🍌!

A minute at 475w at the end of that ride lol - sucker for punishment - but at least you dodged the rain riding inside!

Makes my 1 hour sweet spot (with 5 seconds tags of 400w+ randomly thrown in by the workout) seem a bit of a poor effort.

I was thinking of doing the 1.5 hour threshold session today but I drank quite a lot yesterday in hospitality at the football match I went to and went out for beers after as well. Stomach doesn’t feel like it would take to cardio well so I think I’m going to do a decent leg weight training session instead.

Maybe barbell back squats / goblet squats / reverse lunges / Bulgarian split squats / jumping squats / calf raises or something like that.

It’s all relative mate and Vrs my bulk it doesn’t actually propel my bike very fast 🤣

I felt insanely good today. I was on the gravel bike on 32’s with 50psi and needless to say the group century turned into a right smash up.

The trouble with having different power meters is that they all read a little differently and I think this GRX stages is the highest. I must use the DCRainmaker software to compare them all against my turbo at some point.

Anyhow, if I take what it says at face value, what with trying to match the guys climbing at 4.5w/kg and doing lots of long pulls on the front at 24/25mph on the flats, I managed 257w straight average or 293w NP for 5h23m which got me 19.3mph but that included 8 miles of noodling from home, to my friends house and then into town.

Best 20min power was 319w!

Anyway, I’m a shell of a man now and need to try and re-fuel in 48hrs ready for threshold efforts on Tuesday 🤣

https://strava.app.link/RKWtTQ3xFyb

So I just had a look on Strava with the sauce add-on and I'm actually happy that my PM is legit and that I just had a good day. I compared about ten climbs and longer rolling segments against my mate Rich and our w/kg's were identical! The practical upshot? My extra 27kg means a 100w variance on the climbs!!! And 80w across the entire ride. Especially as he rides a 51cm frame and has a lovely aero position on the bike.

To describe how bonkers a difference it makes across the 100 miles another way: it adds up to 1700!!!! more calories to complete the ride at the same speed.

I seriously need to find a way to lose some weight and keep my power 🤔

seriously need to find a way to lose some weight and keep my power 🤔

losing weight generally just comes to down to less calories in then going out. Why not just download lose it / my fitness pal and workout generally what calories you currently take in and just try going 200 calories less?

Make sure you have enough protein for your body weight / training and lower the processed sugar intake. Make sure you’re fuelling still with enough carbs for your workouts otherwise you’ll just feel awful.

I found just a few simple things made a big difference for me and I feel way better around 76kgs on the bike than I did at 84 and 82kgs.

I've been on and off MFP since 2014 and am 1.5stone heavier 😉 🤣

I've just been eating to hunger since new year without measuring anything and my weight isn't fluctuating by more than a lb or so.

I did 12,255 kcal of cycling this week, including several power PB's and I don't want to risk that during my build phase. Once Dirty Reiver and ToC have passed, I'll have another go for 5/6 weeks 👌🏻

bit of help needed please gents,

so Zwift nudged my Z2 workouts up to 200w from 190w, must autocorrect workouts based on FTP, my Z2 is now 154-209w - was previously doing 190w and my HR was sat nicely into Z2, now adjusted Zwift workout is 200w - just done an hour, which has drifted me into tempo HR,

should I just be ignoring the HR? (heat, caffeine, night shifts, I know a whole number of variables shift it up & down on a daily basis) and just be focusing on the power number, or should I dial it back a touch? have I jumped to high towards the upper of the zone? just trying to be progressive (and I know there is probably not one right or wrong answer)

thanks

Personally wouldn't worry too much about that assuming you're not ending the ride feeling done in. I would expect a few more rides at new FTP will see your heart rate drop for that power.

I must use the DCRainmaker software to compare them all against my turbo at some point.

You can do it for free in Zwift Power.
Works well assuming it still works. My old ones are still there and there is a Create button.

I've used the DCR tool before as well, compared my Tacx Neo V1 with Quarqs & Assiomas - nothing in it, did buy a 4iiii & Stages to test but don't have a bike with Shimano on, never had time and got rid, as my all time 1hr best was on a mountain bike with a stages LH, riding home from work full gas, flat road and I just never believed the figure and wanted to show some of the local stages users the figure is inflated 😂

Personally wouldn’t worry too much about that assuming you’re not ending the ride feeling done in

I could have done another hour easy,

I’ve done loads of informal testing with my Kickr Snap and most of my pms individually at various times (using two displays) and there’s never much in it, would just be nice to spend an hour and do them all properly now I have 4 in regular use 🤦🏻‍♂️🤣🤣
As I say, the w/kg cross-referenced with other guys from todays ride was actually bang on.

Ref Z2-
If you’ve added ten watts then it’s going to be harder so I’d just wait a few sessions and see if it settles down.
I’d not worry about the Hr Zone as such. It’s more the “decoupling” to be interested in.

As to whether to ride at the top of the zone or the bottom- it depends on what you want to achieve. Mid-low Z2 is spot on for general endurance or for filler between hard days but if you want to move things on a bit then I like to push the limits of the “talk test”- which ultimately meant riding at tempo power for my ‘intense Z2’ days.

My ‘power at 2mmol lactate’ (as far as I can tell via that “talk test”) really has been the best improvement to my cycling I’ve ever made. It’s gone from about 225w last year to around 260w now.

It’s why the FTP-zone based system is kind of flawed for Z2 training. You’re working a totally different threshold and they aren’t necessarily a fixed relationship. TR especially have mid-sold the mathematical truth that because your FTP goes up, your z2 has gone up. (It actually may not have moved at all).

During Z2 training you work on pushing LT1 as high up towards your FTP (~LT2) as you can. And only then do you lift your FTP back up as high above that as it will go.

I’ve done loads of informal testing with my Kickr Snap and most of my pms individually at various times

yer this was a 2014 stages though, had power meters for best part of a decade, things have moved on,

It’s more the “decoupling” to be interested in.

I have time for 2hrs tomorrow after work, will report back, I split todays to collect zwift badges 😕 so the first 40mins was 8.9% v the last 20m at 0.8%, didn't get an overall figure

it depends on what you want to achieve.

a goal helps probably, just to be better than I was I guess? thats all we all want despite getting older, I'm 43 this year

It’s more the “decoupling” to be interested in.

my RHR is about 39/40, and my max is/was 199/200, so takes a while for it to stabilise 🤷‍♂️

It is annoying that zwift can’t find a way to save multiple rides as one trace when you’re badge hunting. I guess using a headunit to record your data is the simple work around but I rarely bother.

So yeah, to constantly improve your Z2, you need regular progressive overload. Either your duration, frequency or intensity of Z2 needs to keep increasing or you will plateau.
Eventually you’ll hit a ceiling but then I’d start to add a tempo ride or tempo blocks to a Z2 ride each week anyway.
Like with ftp, eventually pushing it up from below stalls so you have to also try and drag it up from above.

Did this hour sweet spot on Saturday - found that hard as 8 minute intervals - it’s the longer efforts that I find hardwork. Bit physical, but mental. But got through it and felt better for it after.

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Sunday I was a bit the worse for wear so did a slightly half hearted leg weight training session in the end - barbell squats / deadlifts / reverse lunges / calf raises.

Just in the rest interval of the following 45 min beginner threshold session now. Feeling leg fatigue from yesterday but will batter through it before work!

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The ‘purpleness’ of my new bike is helping Me through at the moment - just love how this bike looks. Plus I’d say 100% it feels stiffer around the cranks / bb. The old bike you could look down and see a bit of flex around the bb during hard efforts. This bike has a much chunkier bb area and bigger chainstays. If anything I’d say there’s a little more flex up by the seat post area - so I’m hopeful it’s going to put down power well on the road but with more comfort for my slightly broken body.

Crank wise I think in theory they might not be quite as stiff - 24mm Shimano Ultegra bb86 vs 30mm Cannondale bb30 🤷‍♂️

Well done Joe 💪🏻 Glad you like the new bike.

I’ve got an Orro Venturi STC coming after a spur of the moment purchase last week so hopefully I’ll like it 🤣

I suppose I’m old (40 🤣) so err on the side of caution now, but the research does seem to suggest that only 2/10 workout’s need to be ‘hard’. And that hard actually means ‘above Z2’.
And weight training is definitely in the hard category too.

So I’d keep an eye on making sure you can absorb what you are doing. If you’re too tired to complete a workout without feeling like you could have done another interval, that’s probably a good sign that you did too much in the interim since the last hard workout where you did feel ‘good’ if that makes sense.

My legs just felt a bit heavy today - but that’s the squats yesterday - without that I’d have been ok I reckon. Bumped the last interval up today so I did 1.5mins at 383ftp which was hard but just about do-able.

Tomorrow the legs will get a rest pretty much - shoulder weight training day - so other than the legs bit of clean and presses with a barbell, they’ll get a total rest.

Wednesday / thurs I’m not sure what I’m going to do as I have the days off work with my 6 year old to cover school holidays. If the weather is nice perhaps we’ll go to the local pump track for a play or go for a gentle ride along the Bristol / Bath cycle track. I’ve got a sweet spot turbo scheduled for Thursday for 45 mins but don’t know if I’ll end up doing it. Wednesday night I might try and get some mtb in or do an endurance / z2 turbo in the evening once she’s gone to bed.

Orro looks like a good bit of kit - Matt black with the force AXS stuff looks decent. Wiggle must have the answers wrong to the question about weight though - they say the medium is 9.23kg and that can’t be right. Maybe 8.23kgs?

Yeah not sure. I’m getting the Ultegra di2 one and will put my Prime V3’s on it.

My mate weighed his 11 speed di2 version with Prime V2’s and 28mm GP5k with latex tubes and it came to 7.9kg in a 53 (L).

That sounds more like it for that level of bike / spec. Will absolute fly with carbon wheels and di2 is ace.

Got a VO2 sesh on the slate this evening and not feeling it is an understatement, would honestly prefer to go to bed.

Reckon effective training is equal parts listening to your body, equal parts ignoring your body and telling the lazy **** to STFU, so on this basis I'm going to hop on the turbo and see what happens.

@Garry_Lager

I think as long as it’s only mental you can’t be bothered and your body feels ok it’s the latter option to be taken.

If everything feels broken then time for a rest

Got a VO2 sesh on the slate this evening and not feeling it is an understatement, would honestly prefer to go to bed.

Reckon effective training is equal parts listening to your body, equal parts ignoring your body and telling the lazy **** to STFU, so on this basis I’m going to hop on the turbo and see what happens.

Cam back from Skegness yesterday with muscle aches, headache, very sore through and blocked sinuses overnight. I'm COVID negative, but start a 3 week series of 1 minute intervals in prep for my next race tomorrow... at least I might be :-/

On the TR podcast, Keegan Swenson said he'll attempt an interval three times I think.
In my experience, I know during the first one if the set is doomed and am not afraid to admit I have pulled the plug several times over the years.

My view is that if you aren't well enough (or even well enough recovered) to do the work, then what hope is there of getting an adaptive response from it.
I used to swap in a Zwift race if I felt it was motivation holding me back but often lack of drive is a good early warning signal to illness or fatigue for me, so now, if I don't fancy it, I don't even try.

I find a proper recovery ride (Sub 50% ftp and never more than an hour) to be genuinely helpful in these situations and usually smash the next hard session out of the park.

Yep some nights I’m not feeling it, but many times have got on with it and surprised myself to complete the session strongly.

If it’s genuinely fatigue or illness then you’ll likely know soon after the work steps up.

Ended up feeling pretty good on the bike - hit the power no prob. Early night tho I reckon. Like you guys say, VO2 is sort of pass / fail so you know early if it's not on the cards.

It's really the essence of training in some ways - if we only got on the turbo when we were feeling good no one would make any progress ever. But forcing it when you're properly fatigued will bury you. I don't really do the volume to make reliable judgements here, but should prob just get on with it more than I do.

2hrs @ 200w done, plus the rest of Ventoux then I let it clock up the xp points on the way down while I went and sorted the washing 😂

not sure how to crop on intervals

2hrs
199w
148bpm
3.9% drift (takes just over 30m to stop increasing it looks)

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Well done guys 👍🏻

I wasn’t sure how well I’d be recovered from Sunday but decided to trust the process and just see what happened. I felt okay but a little sore.
I rode into town and then did 3 x 15min @ 330 out on the open road. No ERG mode to assist but the B4000 out of Newbury is the next best thing- gradually climbing and today with a helpful headwind as well.

I was really pleased with how they felt. Mid way through the second one I was contemplating a 4th but decided that moving from 4x10 to 3x15 was a good enough progression given how hard Sunday was.
I’d managed to claw my average up from about 16mph when I got to town to over 20 even with the recoveries so I decided to try and Z2/Tempo my way back once I had finished the work like a 15 mile reliability ride- with the goal of holding that average right to the door.
I just about made it with 43 miles in 2h07 for 20.2mph 🤣

Although it’s not exactly how the physiology works it’s interesting looking back and seeing how this ride is a logical progression from the Tuesday tempo sessions I did, as the average power for the whole ride is basically what I was doing steady-state for 2hrs during those.

Dead chuffed with how things are going 😃

Sounds awesome - I feel like I need to get out on the road to try some stuff like this without ERG. I need to clean up my caad 12 frame / Si cranks / spare chainrings / brake callipers etc and get them up for sale. Wondering if about £400 for the lot is achievable…I’d then save a bit and use the rest on a 4iii single sided power meter. I’m assuming that would play nicely with my Garmin edge 530 for power and cadence.

43 miles with an average of 20mph on your own (no drafting) and hills sounds really good.

I’ve emailed a local cycling club to see if they do any mid week evening rides I could join if I become a member.

Awesome! That sounds spot on with the PM. Used my 4iiii on the mtb with a 530 for ages 👍🏻

My biggest problem with club rides is that unless I coerce everyone into riding how I want, I’m very much an outlier in terms of weight. (Just as the couple of really light guys who come out sometimes struggle on the flats.)
Being right in the centre of the bell curve for weight and power means you’ll have a great time with them no doubt 👍🏻

It’s very easy to get caught up in the scene though and then the temptation is to try and squeeze in your interval days **and** club runs 🤣🤣
And go pop like my Strava friend 🤣

We should do a forum meet-up ride too.

I think I’ll be middling on everything - weight / power etc. So an all rounder that does ok ish on the hills and ok ish on the flat. I’m neither a lightweight climber nor a wattage monster. I think I might have a sneaky good little sprint though - but not really tried sprinting against anyone on the road bike.

On the mtb vs my lighter mate on a slight incline if I go as fast as I can seated it’s near as dammit exactly the same as he is stood up cranking hard. But his SC 5010 is more setup for that sort of thing - if I tried standing up and doing the same on a coil spring sentinel I think I might actually be slower than seated. Want to road ride with him to see how similar bikes compares.

Where is everyone on this thread based in the country?

M4 jct 13

Chieveley?

Decided not to weight train today and did an hour endurance turbo watching the tablet again. Seemed a little high to be zone 2 - topped out a 191w for periods of time although did drop down to 170w ish at times too. Average heart rate was 129bpm with a high of 150bpm so I guess thats quite low va a max of 191bpm.

Yep Chievely more or less 😀

Ah nice one 👍🏻
Just checking back on strava, I think of my Z2 HR as 133-156bpm (my threshold HR is 176 and max 200) and an hour ride at high Z2/ low Z3 power will tend to average right in the middle usually about 144bpm.
So probably sounds spot on 👍🏻

committed to a Vo2 session today, good to get one under the belt even if I was feeling a bit mentally fatigued today, weight still gradually coming off as well, updated zwift to 79.35kg,

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Fantastic! Bet you're pleased with that one 💪🏻

I was running the tightrope of volume/recovery again today. With Sunday still in my legs I compromised more than last week and kept it at 135w with no efforts (like 107bpm average 🤣) but did two hours rather than just one.

Vo2 day here tomorrow and I need to extend to 20minutes either via 4x5min or 5x4min. 4x5 would actually suit the hills I did last week better I reckon. There's certainly 5mins on Streatley and Whitchurch hills if I want it.
Or if I go a little harder, and make them quicker in the process, I may have to do the 5x4 after all. I'm not overly convinced I'm going to have any legs at the moment- I feel fairly ropey and have to go back to work for a few hours in a sec.

Will probably just head out with an open mind and see how I feel on the day.

Fantastic! Bet you’re pleased with that one 💪🏻

yer pleased I got through, still went through the whole gamut of emotions in 7 short 3 minute intervals 😂

It’s surprisingly emotional when you’re right up at your limit - I find that more on the mtb than the road bike or turbo at the moment.

Had a big mtb ride a few weeks back with a mate - 30kms and 1450m of climbing. He’s always faster and he’s considerably lighter / is a natural climber. I found myself at the front on one climb as there had been a descent immediately before it and I’m faster downhill. I felt a bit of pressure to push hard so I didn’t hold him up - got to the top and had to stop and was literally gulping to try and get air into my lungs - heart rate had hit my max of 191bpm with the effort. Luckily I recovered quick and just carried on the rest of the day fine (this was probably 6km / 300m into the day)

Yes! I do wonder how much of interval training is stimulating adaptation and how much is mentally getting used to the sensations at each intensity sometimes.
'Knowing' you've done x watts for x minutes gives you the confidence to do it again.

Guessing it’s a bit of both. Sometimes mentally I think you can block yourself from doing something when your body can probably handle it.

Same, for my VO2/threshold I'm on a combo of

a) 3 sets x 8 1 min at 115%, with 20s,15s and 10s "off" respectively - feels a lot like an MTB race!

b) 8x3 min on / 1 min off at 105%

Its certainly emotional but it also occurred to me that it repeats the sensations of real racing, until you add up total time over threshold which is about 50-70% of that I'd achieve IRL.

New bike is here 🎉
Forecast is for a massive downpour now though so I may have to ride inside or go on the Diverge. I’m not going to be precious about it but I’d like the first ride at least to not to be a miserable affair 🤣

@crosshair That's pretty nice. I'm looking to get one on Cycle 2 work if I can. Let us know how it goes (quickly I hope).