You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Well done Joe, I heard something about the rule of thirds on a podcast the other day. Training should feel good 1/3 of the time, meh 1/3 of the time and rubbish 1/3 of the time.
Otherwise you’re likely over or under stressing yourself if you always feel good or always feel bad.
My cunning plan backfired. I had awful heartburn last night and barely slept. Then breakfast set it off again but it was bearable on the bike.
So I set off with the 15mph group on my mtb as planned. And then it rained. And never stopped for the entire 4h45 I was riding!
They stopped at a garden centre earlier than planned so I carried on alone.
But the tiny sip of squash from my bottle I had made my tummy bad again so I ended up riding 70 miles in the pouring rain on nothing but breakfast with no AirPods and no conversation. Needless to say I’ve been fairly drained since I arrived home 🤣
I’ve been slowly sipping water all day to try and rehydrate and had a couple of rounds of toast but I’m certainly not going to ride tomorrow now.
That sounds brutal! Fair shout for grinding through that in the rain, with no company, under fuelled with stomach ache as well 🤮
At least mine I was fuelled ok / comfy / had music with headphones etc. The rain battered down and soaked my feet right at the start of the ride (but not through my top as the coat stayed waterproof) but then it went weirdly warm.
I think I could do with investing in some new coats for biking at some point - want one of those thin emergency style Castili ones that packs down small and I think a Gore Paclite Gtx as a more streamlined road waterproof.
My new bike frame has now arrived and I’m going to get that swapped over during the next few weeks so that’ll be more comfortable with my lower back for distance and is very purple.
Yeah, I was dressed for showers not torrential, continuous rain I must admit! I rarely get dehydrated but even with the rainwater I was inevitably drinking, it's taken until Sunday evening to get re-hydrated. And I'm better and appeared to have avoided catching anything else.
In hindsight it was such a flawed idea- especially for recovery week. Lesson learned.
Gearing myself up for Tuesday now as I have decided to start a Threshold block. 4x10 coming up but I have no idea what my Threshold actually is 🤣 Just have to make an educated guess for number 1 and then adjust from there for the second third and fourth.
Sounds like a big ride for a recovery week. Mine sounds more appropriate - 1 hour endurance turbo / 45 min sweet spot turbo / 1.5 hour road spin with just one big hill.
Found when I’ve got back that one of my gp4000’s has started to delaminate on one side I think - got a long loop of rubber hanging off it. Have been happy with gp4000s (25c clincher) which I think are nearer to a 28c size. Looking at gp5000 clinchers in 30c (as the new frame is technically a gravel one which I’m building up for road so has loads of tyre clearance) but struggling to get my head round £100 for a pair of road tyres - albeit with free tubes.
Did a Zwift 1:50 race yesterday over Big Foot Hills 67km with instructions to push for breaks as “intervals”. Even with all the coasting and riding in groups I ended up at 3.2wkg, but very tired, then went out MTBing today in the slop for a 90 mins “push”.
Start again with a Zwift race Wednesday, 3 x 20’s sweet spot on Thursday, 12 x 1 min max on Saturday and 3hr Z2 on Sunday. A 7hr week to start the next block.
Awesome well done Kryton 💪🏻 I love that your coach uses Zwift races to simulate hard group rides and C races. It’s such a great motivator for going harder than you can in intervals alone.
Gp5k’s are worth it though Joe 🤩 I love my 32’s and 25’s tubeless on my gravel and race bikes respectively.
Although I call it recovery ‘week’ it’s actually just a few days. If I go easy for all 7 I lose too much fitness. Last recovery week, I did group rides on the Saturday and Sunday for 9h00 total whereas this time I’ve done nothing over Z2 and only 7h30 so I should be freshened up nicely for Tuesday.
If I’d not been ill and actually drunk the fluids and sugar I had with me as well as doing the proper coffee stop (I left them to it as couldn’t face watching them eat cake 🤣) it would have been a perfect easy spin with high Z1 HR, low Z2 power.
Feeling great now I’ve got my appetite back and slowly emptied the cupboards all day 🤣🤣
It’s such a great motivator for going harder than you can in intervals alone.
Yes and seems to be working - although I haven't reached my 2021 best I'm getting "gold" in my power achievements (e.g. 1m wkg, 2m wkg) on a week on week basis. Saturdays race I recorded a 60m PB of 266w which is a true hour at 3.6wkg for me.
Wow that’s brilliant mate well done 👍🏻
I’m tempted to try a sports dietician 🤔 I just can’t find a way to lose weight anymore. Eating to hunger means my weight stays literally within 1/2 a lb week to week. (Has been consistent since Jan). Eating to a deficit that worked in my early 30’s means I just get hangry and lose performance on the bike (although worked for -10lb when I was just doing easy z2 before Xmas).
I’m really really pleased with my power (which is why I only talk in straight watts 😉🤣 ) but if I could get down even into the 80’s I’d be half handy. (Even my 291np for two hours is only 3.0w/kg 🥴🤣)
85kg/340w would be my best shot at 4w/kg but that’s most likely a pipe dream.
291np for two hours is only 3.0w/kg
Would be about 4.1 for me!! MY FTP is about 280 on a very good day.
I would expect you need need to abandon training for a while to focus on weight which given you are turning the wick up to harder efforts right now is going to be tough...sounds like a job for next winter to me..
Banjo gravel ride next Sat if the weather cheers up?
Oooo that’s a nice idea although I’m adding intensity now, so was going to go for a smash up with the 19’s. Stay in touch and I’ll see what’s occurring 😀
(I don’t have a gravel bike either as the diverge BB threads have smoothed off so it’s in for a warranty replacement frame!)
I’m hoping I’ll naturally get a kg or two drop off as is gets warmer but I’d love for someone to tell me what three meals a day to eat that are going to tidy up my diet and still give me the big fuel supply I need.
I’m guessing cheese, jam and crisp sandwiches aren’t it 🧐 🤣🤣
Looking at gp5000 clinchers in 30c (as the new frame is technically a gravel one which I’m building up for road so has loads of tyre clearance) but struggling to get my head round £100 for a pair of road tyres – albeit with free tubes.
I only buy GP4000s or now 5000s as I trust them. Cost is immaterial, it's not pleasant on the wallet when you put a hole in one too soon, with how I expect them to perform into downhill corners. Running 32 TLR(?) on my summer road bike and the level of grip is phenomenal cornering. I think they are "slower" on a ride but I've no plan to put smaller ones on ever.
Since I last posted about not overdoing it I've basically been ill since I did that "one more ride" mind it was such a good ride. Took basically the week off after to recover and not been able to do anything properly hard since then. Some sort of cold/virus that's just lingering along making me feel just rubbish enough.
Cold sounds horrible - since Covid I’d swear there are more of these things around that linger for ages before suddenly going.
I’ve stumped up for a pair of gp5000s in 30c. Hoping for the next few weeks they fit in my caad12 disc frame but they might not. I need to switch all the stuff across from the caad to the Dolan GXC frame that’s arrived but I’m not relishing the task.
Want to protection tape a few bits first, then cut the carbon steerer down a bit so I can get it all together and then trim more at a later date.
Di2 internal might be fun - looking at the plastic adapter where cables go into the frame it’s drilled for one big brake hose and then to act as a stop for outer with only bare cable continuing through. Will need to drill one of those out to fit di2 cable through.
I’ve got 2 x hope RX4+ caliper to fit onto Shimano hoses / stis and then bleed 🫣
Got to change the rear axle and both wheels worth of end caps on my hunt wheels. Di2 internal battery to fit in a new seat post (can’t remember if I’ve bought the right size wedge thing or not yet.
New tyres onto wheels.
Press fit bb to fit with new Ultegra cranks.
Think those are the main awkward bits.
On the weight loss thing using the ‘lose it’ app has worked well for me. Although at the moment I’m probably allowing myself too many calories so my weight has stagnated between 76.5-77kgs broadly. If I ease off on weight training and cake I could probably get that down to 75kgs but I’m enjoying both of those things at the moment 🍰
I’m tempted to try a sports dietician 🤔 I just can’t find a way to lose weight anymore.
I did a sports science undergrad degree from 2019-2022 and I'm 2/3 of the way through year 1 of 2 of a MSc Dietetics course, with an eye on registering with SENR post graduation, and I think the problem is you could ask 100 dietitians that question and you'd get 100 different answers
increase protein intake
vary the stimulus
calorie deficit
🤷♂️
I’m tempted to try a month of Fascat just so I can download their ‘win in the kitchen’ diet plan.
What I really want is to tell someone my training plan, my likes and dislikes, give them a goal weight (and date) and for them to tell me exactly what to eat 🤣
Bonus if they can cook it and send it to me to heat up 🤣
cancelled todays, I dare say I won’t be feeling up to it tomorrow, had planned 4hrs this week, not a massive issue in the grand scheme of things
deffo wasn't up to it, binned off Fridays session, cancelled my Friday night shift, spent the entirety of Saturday watching MSR and sleeping, went for a light walk with the kids yesterday, early night, did an early shift today, longer walk with the kids after school, and felt a lot better, Garmin said my RHR was back to normal after a couple of days being elevated, so took that as a sign to get back on, 1hr Z2 @ 185w, bit of drift during, but it was very warm in my room this evening, will leave any intensity until later in the week, still hoping to get 7/8hrs in this week, probably won't get chance to get outdoors though,
and if they weighed it out and worked out the calories and macros, even better, but then what life is that 🤷♂️
take today, I tracked my breakfast, and lunch, because it was off the shelf cereals, milk, bread, meat, tuna, easy, but then at tea, I've batched cooked some spag Bol, nights at the weekend, so portioned some up, fed the kids and myself, some more spare, then had a slither of homemade cheesecake short of absolutely obsessing weighing everything and breaking it down in excel then how the hell do you know if your in a deficit
and that in effect is one of the cruxs with tracking apps, because unless you are ultra dedicated and build the recipes you eat, it forces you down the line of eating stuff that has a barcode, for convenience, which isn't always the best option
Ooof. I lost 10 points off of my fitness score over recovery week (which I guess is the point 🤣) and my legs were definitely aware of it.
I literally haven’t done any threshold work since 31/03/22 either so today’s 4x10 set were going to be interesting if nothing else.
The first one was okay- 333w, but from there they faded in turn until the last one was just 291! Which is bonkers given that if I stay aerobic, I can get within 20w of that for 2h30 🤣
It was fun riding fast at times though. One interval was nicely timed downwind and subtly downhill to give me 9min15 / 4.2 miles at 27.1mph 😎
Let’s hope my body remembers how to go hard and adapts quickly soon 🤞🏻🤞🏻
@crosswind - was this outdoors intervals rather then turbo then?
Where are these fitness points you talking - Strava or intervals.icu or something?
I’m not warning to intervals - it seems a bit ad-hoc when and what it pulls through from Garmin Connect. Think I’m just going to let TR adaptive training rey to manage training tss etc.
Plugged through a 2.4 level V02 session yesterday - only 45 mins long as I didn’t have time for an hour but it was a slightly higher rated session than the hour suggests (both classed as productive). Wasn’t too bad.
I think the sweet spot scheduled for tomorrow or Thursday will be harder - called half dome with some 8 minute sweet spot intervals.
Outdoors mate yes.
“Fitness” is just your rolling 42 day average of your training load. And your “fatigue” score is your rolling 7 day average. “Form” is the first minus the second.
Strava, Training Peaks, Trainerroad, Intervals.icu and other apps all give similar but not identical numbers characterising your “fitness score”.
and my legs were definitely aware of it.
yer, took me a loooong time to get into todays 2hr session, probably through 40 minutes before anything felt normal,
with regards to weightloss, Empirical Podcast more or less echoed my thoughts during the early rambling in their podcast, linked here
Plugged through a 2.4 level V02 session yesterday – only 45 mins long as I didn’t have time for an hour but it was a slightly higher rated session than the hour suggests (both classed as productive). Wasn’t too bad.
I think the sweet spot scheduled for tomorrow or Thursday will be harder – called half dome with some 8 minute sweet spot intervals.
The TR VO2max stuff is light work in the main, have to get to quite high ratings before it really hits VO2.
Might not be such a bad thing, as true VO2 sessions are very hard and prob shouldn't be / can't be done without good reason. If you get close to 4 and are looking for VO2 work to pull you up then you'd see results by switching to something more classic.
When you say something more classic what do you mean please? Any input gladly received 😊
Most discussion on VO2 max I see emphasises the max part - percent of ftp not really important, you don't even need a power meter, it's just max effort over the work interval. Off time should be generous enough to complete the session without the last couple of intervals completely falling apart - some drop in power is to be expected.
Max power doesn't mean starting at 500W and desperately trying to hold it for as long as you can - it means there's a theoretical max power you're capable of over the interval time, that is what you are aiming for. The strongmen can do 5 x 5 but prob 4 x 4 is a better starting point.
These sessions are hard AF - ie feelings of trepidation ahead of time, breathing like a fish on dry land during. So I wouldn't be going out of my way to do them. But 4 Wkg isn't easy (so I hear) - it's going to involve some hard VO2max work at some point for most people.
VO2max is the maximum oxygen uptake, not maximum power.
(I don't even know what you mean by maximum power, you can do a lot more power for 30 secs than 30 mins.)
These sessions are hard AF – ie feelings of trepidation ahead of time, breathing like a fish on dry land during
Had to lol at this. I still haven't had the guts to try The Gorby on Zwift, as I know its going to be a horrendous hour.
I had a bad day yesterday. I had ample time to ride but was totally disinterested and couldn't even bargain with myself to get started (which normally results in a good session).
Then today was dreaded 5x3 Vo2 max intervals on the plan but the weather was making being cheery about the prospect impossible again. But, I guess I had recovered that little bit more and I found the motivation to at least get on the Turbo bike.
I had a few podcasts lined up so told myself hour one was just to ride and listen. No watt targets high or low. And by the end, I felt quite good.
I have to say, with a bit of thought, Zwift is actually a mint platform for self-styled training now (aside from the plans, pace partners and workout creator) so I went to the original little KOM to do hill reps 🤣 But even better, they have added that KOM shortcut round the back so you can session it as loops for added interest.
I had to start at the tunnel under the bridge where it loops around, then complete the KOM segment and do about 20 more seconds at the top to get my 3 mins in.
Power was 360, 370, 378, 380 and 393w for the work efforts but the main reason why I was able to pace them like that is because of the Segment Ghost feature which gives you a ghost of your best effort to chase! That was awesome as I could ignore everything other than just staying in front of grey me 👻
I cooled down for the rest of the second hour and then finally jumped on to a dead easy 150w pace partner for a final hour.
It sounds a bit of a whan-key Trainerroad Podcast Amber or Jonathon thing to say but I 'checked in' with myself during my interval set and I have to say- I felt incredible! Which was a massive contrast to Tuesday.
Hopefully I've shocked my system back to life and we can actually do some good work in the next three weeks.
I have sprints pencilled in tomorrow (5x10s but will spread them out over 90 mins) and then Saturday I am just praying the weather cheers up because I want to go and treat the fast shop ride as a C race. Proper full on smashfest.
If they choose a hilly route then nobody will even notice, and I'll be smashing whether I like it or not 🤣 but if they go longer and flatter then I'm hoping to dish out some hurt.
Sounds like you got through a decent session in the end even if you weren’t in the mood for it to start with. Nice!
I bottled the half done 1 hour sweet spot because I just couldn’t scrape myself out of bed early enough this morning. Did a 45 minute alternative which still felt fairly hard - 5x6min sweet spot intervals at 88-94% of my new ftp from a few weeks back. On the last set I’d ridden myself into the session so banged the power up from the 240 required to about 300w for the last 2 mins. Felt hard but do-able.
Not got a session scheduled tomorrow but I think I might pick a random endurance 1 hour ride to do on the turbo straight after work whilst I watch Bosch on the iPad.
Saturday morning I’m taking the hardtail out round the local easy trails that hopefully won’t be too muddy (Ashton Court / Leigh Woods / 50 Acre Wood).
Sunday will be a rest day.
Well done mate! I’ve got massive respect for anyone who trains in the morning 💪🏻 👍🏻
They mentioned that (sticking an extra endurance ride in) on the Matchbox podcast today- and how over the course of a week, month and then season, they have a huge cumulative effect on your volume. So I’d say that’s a good plan.
How do you activate the ghost segment feature?
Just re-ride the same segment again in the same ride I believe @john_l
It may even do it on the next ride if it’s within 30 days I can’t remember. It does it on any of the official zwift segments I think- sprints, koms, routes etc.
Each of the 5 times I rode the climb it had the latest fastest version. I know it was a feature people asked for from day 1 and fair play- they’ve implemented it well.
I am curious about Zwift but can’t bring myself to pay for that as well as Trainer Road and I’m ticking along nicely on TR at the moment. Maybe over the summer I might pause my TR membership and try Zwift out for a month or so. I tend to still turbo over the summer as it keeps my calorie burn going better than trying to get out on the bike for a quick blip.
Going to try and stick in an extra endurance session as often as I can - only issue is I’m on season 7 of Bosch which is the last 1. Think there’s a spin off but only 1 season made so far - so will have to find something else decent to watch on Prime!
The TR VO2max stuff is light work in the main, have to get to quite high ratings before it really hits VO2.
Might not be such a bad thing, as true VO2 sessions are very hard and prob shouldn’t be / can’t be done without good reason. If you get close to 4 and are looking for VO2 work to pull you up then you’d see results by switching to something more classic.
Most of TR's VO2 sessions used to be closer to 'classic' - 4 or 5 min intervals etc. I seem to remember they changed them a couple of years back after seeing some studies showing similar adaptations from the same time at high power but shorter intervals/rests. I can't remember the details but it was something like the same effect on 5 min power whether you did 5x5 or 5 sets of 10x30s. I think they see much better completion rates with the shorter intervals, and I've certainly used them on the path to 4 w/kg in the past.
I do quite like a 'classic' VO2 max session every once in a while too though.
I am curious about Zwift but can’t bring myself to pay for that as well as Trainer Road and I’m ticking along nicely on TR at the moment.
Why not just try the free month for a session and see if you prefer it ? I don't watch anything when Zwifting as i'm too involved in it.
@weeksy - I do t think I’d found a free month option when I looked a few months back. Maybe 2 weeks or something like that.
I’ll have another look at it and see over the next few weeks. Not quite sure how I’ll fit in a race - they’re all at set timed starts aren’t they? Guess it will be get my daughter to bed and try to get out and ready for one about 7.30-8pm or something like that.
they have set start times, but they're literally almost every 15 mins throughout most days/nights. If you have time for a TR session you have time for a race/event. It's rare to find a window where there's not an event of some description you can enter.
Seems like as good a place as any to ask this question, rather than start a new thread.
Just checked my ICU Intervals account for the 1st time in ages and noticed that only my Garmin Connect rides are uploading, nothing's uploading from Strava so none of my Zwift rides which get uploaded to Strava (and Garmin) not any or my runs which I capture straight into Strava.
Permissions all look ok. Any ideas?
Ok, think I've found the answer. ICU are limiting data from Strava to subscribers and Garmin only passes directly recorded activities, not pass through (i.e. Zwift to Strava to Garmin).
Is that right, so I'd need to support ICU to start seeing Strava activities again?
I wondered why my trainer road rides weren’t pulling through from Connect into intervals. I think I’m just going to use trainer road for checking on training stress etc
I thought I read on intervals icu that you have to pay now to be able to get Strava data.
Most of TR’s VO2 sessions used to be closer to ‘classic’ – 4 or 5 min intervals etc. I seem to remember they changed them a couple of years back after seeing some studies showing similar adaptations from the same time at high power but shorter intervals/rests. I can’t remember the details but it was something like the same effect on 5 min power whether you did 5×5 or 5 sets of 10x30s. I think they see much better completion rates with the shorter intervals, and I’ve certainly used them on the path to 4 w/kg in the past.
I do quite like a ‘classic’ VO2 max session every once in a while too though.
I like the TR progression and difficulty ratings in general, just not sure what sort of progression it is indicating for VO2max if they're a long way from max effort. I did a 5.1 session earlier this week that felt solid enough but only really tickled VO2.
Perhaps it is just necessary to incrementally build time in red zone before you can consistently train VO2. Like anyone can pull on the big pants and crush a one-off VO2 workout, but to do it consistently as part of overall training structure is different gravy.
I wouldn't fancy 5x5 right now, but have a couple of fast TT courses lined up in May. Would be good to be in condition for hard VO2max training the month before for a short term stimulus.
Isn't it hip and trendy to do 8min VO2 intervals at ~108% FTP with 2mins+ recovery per interval, starting with 4 sets per session and gradually increasing as weeks go by?
8 min intervals at 108% ftp sounds quite horrible
8 min intervals at 108% ftp sounds quite horrible
I'm not even sure it sounds possible 😀
Literally just finished exactly that. Quite hard. 3x10 is the next progression.
Ref intervals.icu - I just synced my Garmin connect account and that automatically uploads everything instead of Strava. Or you can download rides from strava and upload them manually to intervals if you don’t use Garmin connect. Both for free still.
Seiler’s study showed 4x8 are the best for adaptation. But I’m not sure on the intensity as I think it was as a vo2 percentage rather than an FTP based one.
I don’t honestly think it matters- just pick a duration between 30s and 8 minutes and accumulate as much time there as you can in a session.
All of it depends on how accurate your ftp is, what your ftp is that day, what you training load that week is, blah blah blah.
What is key is to have progressive overload. Once you can do your session of choice, do something harder each week.
So I’ve made a start with 5x3 @ what I’m guessing is about 110-115% but next week I’ll shoot for the higher power and switch to 4x4. Then the following week aim for 5x4. After recovery week I’ll then reassess and do something different to get a different stimulus.
Adam Hansen used to describe mixing them up in the same session even. So 5x five minute intervals but some steady state, some as 30/30’s and some as 40/20’s.
I’m not even sure it sounds possible
just imagine it's the first 8 minutes of ANY Zwift race 😂
just imagine it’s the first 8 minutes of ANY Zwift race
It's not the first 8 that would kill me... Well, not quite.
Trying to keep near the lead group in the quartet of Zwift Insider Tiny Races on Saturdays (ran at 0900, 1500 and 2100 GMT) would be a rough approximation of 4x8mins at ~108% most weeks, usually with more like 3-5mins recovery between races.
At ~254W FTP, 105-108% would mean 8min efforts of 267-274W, pretty close to what I did two weekends ago over ~33mins of racing while getting smashed by far stronger C riders.
Certainly shouldn't be a walk in the park to do as an ERG workout, but should be achievable if your FTP is in the right ballpark, your legs aren't dead from a z4+ workout/race in the last few days and you aren't coming down with or recovering from a lurgy etc.
The other thing to consider with vo2 max intervals is that the adaptations are quick to appear. It only really takes 8 weeks to build and maybe some marginal gains out to 12 weeks.
That’s where you need to consider the cost of maintaining it.
I’ve probably done the least amount of winter zwift racing ever so I’m very much starting from scratch with it 😭 🤣
Tonight was the opposite of vo2 for me. I finished sweaty - but heart rate didn’t feel particularly high and I didn’t really even notice I was exercising as I was watching the iPad. If I’d had more time I could have done another 30-60 mins quite happily I think - but I think my wife might have disowned me.
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/8kw0G4vs/F5FB8942-F324-4353-9339-62267F1A638B.pn g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/8kw0G4vs/F5FB8942-F324-4353-9339-62267F1A638B.pn g"/> [/img][/url]
Well done Joe 👍🏻 Great session’s those. Stash some Z2 gainz in the bank with no stress 😃
My wife threatened to disown me for *not* doing my session and hogging the remote instead 🤣
I like the TR progression and difficulty ratings in general, just not sure what sort of progression it is indicating for VO2max if they’re a long way from max effort. I did a 5.1 session earlier this week that felt solid enough but only really tickled VO2.
I'm sure I remember hearing on the TR podcast that it's not uncommon for people to have to nudge the power up or down on VO2 to get the best results. I guess using %FTP to set the power for these intervals is less than ideal. It sounds like you've got some scope to go a bit harder in those sessions - I guess you have to be careful to listen to your body a bit and try not to do yourself in though!
Seiler’s study showed 4×8 are the best for adaptation. But I’m not sure on the intensity as I think it was as a vo2 percentage rather than an FTP based one.
this one?
Yep that’s it 👍🏻
So skimming back through, it’s kind of more of a “Sweetspot” v “Threshold” V “Vo2 max” study.
I guess it’s expected that the 4x8’s around threshold give the best bump in threshold but maybe what’s surprising is that it’s better for vo2 max power than 4x4’s.
I managed to sprint at 10.5wkg to beat the others over the line” – i can’t even imagine figures of 10.5w/kg!
Me neither that's about 150w more than my max power on the turbo!
Interesting group ride today. First there was a crash. And (no joke) it was the Triathlete! Luckily he was fine with just some road rash and a bruised thumb and his old S-Works was good to carry on too! He made it round the rest of the 65 miles as strong as ever! Fair play but it shook me up a bit as it was only luck (and spidey sense maybe?) that I had left a huge gap behind him into the wet, muddy, off-camber bend.
From my perspective it was tough. Adding intensity to my week on both Tuesday and Thursday meant this was pushing the limit of what I know I can cope with. And of course, the dent on my mojo meant I didn't manage to maintain the volume I've been doing.
What I'm trying to accomplish now though is to learn to ride at other people's pace again. It's all very well going out and doing long, solo tempo rides that I'm proud of, or highly structured interval sets where I can see the intensity coming, and know exactly where it's going to end.
What today was about was throwing myself into the blender! The weather, the route, the road surface and of course the relative strengths of my ride buddies all meant that I couldn't always ease off when *I* wanted to (or I'd get dropped). I still did get dropped. A lot. There's no way around it at my weight but by the end of the next descent I could usually get back on again, or some helpful traffic lights would come to my aid.
I did have a goal power in mind. I looked at my power from a recent group ride I was pleased with- and my 3hr power was 236w and 264np so all I wanted to do was beat one of those. Preferably the latter. As it was, today came in at 231w and 273np but for 15 minutes longer so not a bad guess, especially as it was on a different power meter too.
There were a few times when my AP for the ride was dropping into the 220's so I'd hit the front and crank things up. Then the others would pop out of my draft, blitz the next climb and I'd be left dangling off the back. Then when they were coasting, I'd have to carry on down the other side in the 300's to close the gap again and pretty soon my little turn on the front had escalated into ten minutes at threshold 🤣
The finale was the A4. And the tailwind meant I got a nice PB. 8 miles at 28mph is pretty fun. It finishes with the ski slope (a 20s climb) and I managed to hold second wheel up there and then get a gap on the flat at the top with another guy. The traffic into town was way too busy for many games but I got such a good gap over the last flyover, that with clear roads I could have 'won' for sure. Which is a nonsense of course as had it been a road race, I'd have been dropped numerous times and been unable to be present to even contest the finale but did give a little glimmer of hope about my legs.
It's stupid to read too much into any one session- training is about consistency and a good body of work. Today was exactly that. Another solid entry in the diary with nothing remarkable to celebrate but a step in the right direction towards Tour of Cambridgeshire nonetheless.
Some of the group road rides / Zwift rides people are doing seem quite hardcore with people attacking and pushing the pace on. I w only been on one group ride before with the local triathlon club and was a bit disappointed that the fast group weren’t actually very fast. I ended up helping a couple of the ladies get back to the group a few times when they dropped off the back.
I’m mostly mtb-ing so either solo or with other people - with the latter it often breaks up on the climb and everyone gathers at the top again.
Rode solo just round easy xc-ish trail centre stuff at Ashton Court / Leigh Woods. Took the hardtail out for a spin - I’ve been riding the sentinel a lot the last few months and the Marino has been a bit neglected. After the first 10 mins thinking it’s very bumpy I really got into it - the 2.6” tyres do smooth stuff out quite well and it was really good on the trails that have been built like a pump track pretty much.
Fitness wise, considering it was the 3rd day on the bounce pedalling I felt pretty good still - maybe I should be training a bit harder!
On your triathlete comment I think there is a bit of a lack of skill in the cycling front with a lot of them - it’s cliche but it is true to some extent.
To be fair it was a bad corner 🤣 But once we knew he was okay we were able to rib him about it.
We had a couple of puncture stops and the crash so the pace was not mega fast (not when my Strava crush Harold Evans did 27mph this morning 😱 🤣) at 19.4mph but there were some fun moments.
Well done on your ride! I definitely notice it when I *don’t* have recent miles in the legs these days. I ride worse if I’m too fresh.
Got to rip it out of someone once you know they aren’t very broken 🤣
I’ve no idea if 19.4mph is that fast - but it’s definitely faster than the tri rides - most people seem to be aiming at 16-18mph average. But then I’d get my ass kicked by the lot of them running or swimming so I can’t say too much
2nd week of dirt destroyer (almost) done and it's feeling a bit too comfortable, if I'm being honest... None of the workouts have had me wishing for death over completing another interval, yet. 🤣
Hopefully that'll result in a decent uplift at the end of the 6 weeks, I'm tempted to get a race in as I'm currently able to enter cat C, my 74.6kg and 247w puts me at 3.31w/kg which is bottom end cat B but I've not done any efforts in the last few weeks that has put me up at that level.
Enjoying reading this thread. I’m a similar weight to you Joe and while 4w/kg is unachievable for me given work and family commitments I’m making progress and up to 3.4w/kg. Had some good sessions on trainerroad this week and hope to get 2/3 hours zone 2 tomorrow outdoors.
Enjoying reading this thread. I’m a similar weight to you Joe and while 4w/kg is unachievable for me given work and family commitments I’m making progress and up to 3.4w/kg. Had some good sessions on trainerroad this week and hope to get 2/3 hours zone 2 tomorrow outdoors.
What's your body type? It's definitely easier if you're an, ahem... 'Skinny get' like me, with little to no excess weight up top 🤣 I was 13w away from 4w/kg not that long ago, I'm 30w and 1.5kg off those figures as I speak but with some consistent training I reckon I'll be able to get to 4w/kg. Weight wise I'll need to be down to 73kg again, then get to 290w. Doing that on 4-6hrs a week training (with a real ride or 2 as well) should be doable for me. It's definitely harder if you're carrying any weight in your upper body, be that muscle or fat.
Yeah I’m going to struggle on the upper body bit - I’m 5’9 / 76.3kgs as of today / 40
or maybe even 42” chest / 32-34” waist in most clothes. I’m at 255ftp - so 3.34w/kg at the moment.
Still got some fat to shift off my stomach and rear end I reckon before I run out of fat to lose. Doubt I’ll get it all off because cake.
Unfortunately I’m pretty lean above the waist! Bigger arse and legs although I don’t think I’ve much weight to lose. 43 now and while I’m not putting any on I think it’s getting harder to shift with age 😫
From my perspective it was tough.
Should have come MTBing with me, it was a nice easy ride!!
still plugging away in Z2 here, managed 6hrs this week if I don't get anything in tomorrow, nights to nights and then picking the kids up, so will be an hour tops if I do, which isn't bad considering Wednesday onwards last week during rest week I felt shocking, so 2x 2hr sessions and 2x 1hr sessions isn't a bad week, still got the odd cough, so done nothing above z2 since 9/3 which isn't ideal but I know not to much it
on a weight front, i'm down from 88kg (I'm sure it was on 26/1, although I have 83.6kg logged on 7/2) to 78.5kg this afternoon when I woke up for work, either way, a decent downward trend, and I don't think I've stepped on the scales in 15 years and the number start with a 7
Should have come MTBing with me, it was a nice easy ride!!
Sadly I need a bit of toughness now to try and get fit 🤣
Was toying with joining you for your original loop before the weather turned everything to mush I must admit. (I came off of Facebook so can see the page but can’t comment or like posts).
That’s a very decent amount of weight off - that must make a huge difference in the bike. I found just dropping from 84kgs to 77-78 ish was a game changer
that must make a huge difference in the bike
hope so, only been outdoors once this year, just snowed under with kids and uni and still working, however, in terms of time and volume, in 2021 I did 99hrs and 2022 I did 80hrs, in 2023 I'm on as of today I'm on 71hrs (with only 1hr 13m coasting apparently), and watts wise, in 2021 I did 293w for 20 mins and 2022 I did 265w for 20, which I've matched already with 266w,
so with another couple of kg off maybe, a bit of strength training, which I need to get my arse in gear and do and a bump in fitness when I add some more intensity, we might crack 4w/kg
Well done @dirtyrider that's great progress 👏🏻
I was fairly trashed after Saturday. I did an hour easy on Zwift on Sunday and at 20mins I wanted to get off. By 40 mins I was feeling better and by the hour, I wanted to carry on. But I knew it wasn't the right thing to do. Then yesterday was a recovery day and today I get to see if my body has adapted to last week's Threshold session or not.
These top end gains start expressing within days apparently, so we shall see! It may have to be on Zwift looking at the weather, but that's fine as it will make holding consistent power easier.
It's interesting looking at the other guys from Saturday's ride on my Strava feed since then. Everyone was fairly equally smashed by the end it seemed and yet some have done some impressive high intensity in the meantime.
I'll be curious to see how they fair next weekend, as I definitely needed the easy time to absorb Saturday's training stress, so my guess is that I'll improve relative to them but let's see!
Some people seem to be able to main high intensity for longer / more frequently it seems. Unless it’s ok for a bit, then they break down but you just don’t see it?
I know with 1 mtb and 2 turbos a week that I’m making progress - with an ad hoc easy endurance turbo thrown in where possible. This week is going to be different I think as I’m mid bike build so haven’t turbo’d yesterday or today and got an evening mtb tomorrow with a mate who is slower / less fit. Going to have to hit up turbo thurs / fri in a row I think.
Been plodding along at 3.7 indoors most of the winter, TTE of 45 minutes
Had a week away and managed an 18 minute effort at 4.5, best 20 from the same ride gave me 4.1 which included a stop of 1:30 at the bottom of the climb.
mFTP outdoors is now 3.9 (35 minute TTE) so hoping a solid 20 minute effort could get me over the line.
And Tuesday World Champs start tonight!
Yeah, I don't think there's evidence of more than 3 sessions of HIIT a week being better Joe (other than maybe as part of a block training program) but it just comes back to the old thing of 'easy days easy, hard days hard' to avoid everything becoming a bit meh. I want to make sure I go into Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday ready to really hurt myself for the next two weeks.
Oooo nice one @Haze Let us know how it goes 😀
There's no sign of life on our Tuesday night WhatsApp yet. We have been out as early as 04th April in years gone by but I could almost do with a few more weeks of structured training first. I find it's quite tricky to actually get good 'time in zone' on the chaingang because if I go too hard or too long on the front, I'm liable to nearly 'drop myself' by not then being able to catch back on the end of the train. I know that's probably the best bit of training on the whole ride (like an over/under) but I always end up leaving a bit in reserve to fend off hero pulls 🤣
Then West Thames starts at Hillingdon on the 14th so I may venture up and check my form (and I always find a good kicking good for the training motivation 🤣 ).
First few weeks will be the short route due to light, it gives us a chance to dust off the cobwebs and get the line working nicely.
In past years I'd only schedule one more intensity session per week, either in the form of a race or 'spritied' Sunday cafe ride ending up in a smash.
No racing for me this year so I'll probably revert to a structured session on Saturday and pad the rest of the week out with Z2, except the last half hour or so on a Sunday of course 😀
Agree with others that lots of HIIT sessions in a week is likely to do more harm than good. I know I've dug myself a hole by doing a TR low volume plan then adding on pacelines and fast club runs.
Currently on the 'experimental' polarised build plan from TR. I'm finding the endurance riding pretty challenging - in the past I've treated these as easy rides but they're definitely pushing into the tempo territory. I still prefer the HIIT sessions but it's nice to change things up a bit this year and will be interesting to see where it takes me.
Moved to a new area this year and there's some great ~4min hills right on my doorstep but I think I might need to explore a bit to find some longer stuff for later in the season.
Well that was good. I could tell I was freshening up as I felt all motivated all of a sudden!
It almost seems like I know what I'm on about too- either that or it's a placebo effect. So last week, the 4x10's went awfully bad. The average across 40mins was just 305w. But I also knew it was a shock to the system having not done any for years. Or much intensity this year. Every podcast I listened to or article I read, told me this stuff would start to get better in days- if you recover properly. (And I noticed Ed Laverack was proving it himself with some rapid jumps in Threshold fitness in a couple of short weeks).
Today had the advantage of ERG mode to help me out but the average across this weeks 4x10's was far closer to my suspected FTP of 330-340 at 334 watts! Dead chuffed with that. Now I can progress the duration and try 3x15 next week.
Reference my Saturday ride companions: one tried to do a TR Vo2 workout today (having done 3h30 yesterday and 90mins on Sunday!) and got 30mins in and bailed. Now, I'm not one to say I told you so but it did give me some motivation to post a good crisp set of successful intervals that's for sure 😉
Lol - if they’d done that intensity then tried to do a hard vo2 then sounds a bit much.
Good work on your 4x10 - sounds like you’re making progress!
In the end I’ve finished my new frame build enough that it’s bolted onto the turbo good to go - so got an hour TR vo2 ride I’m going to do shortly. Then mtb tomorrow and a sweet spot Friday. No proper weekend ride as going to watch football and the wife would be angry if I then tried to do mtb on the weekend too. May fit in another TR endurance ride Sunday if I can instead.
Need to bleed my brakes and try to get out on the road next few weeks as I’ll have new bike excitement. Don’t know what it weighs but feels light to pickup - hopefully around 8kgs.
Ah wicked, that will be ace. Nothing like NBD watts 💪🏻 😎