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I had a fun race yesterday, it was a flat course and suits me, we went off in a lead group of 17.
I managed 4 attacks during the race, i got up to a 5s lead on one, but i was flying solo so that was never going to fly. I joined 4 others in a split after the sprint and i thought we had a chance, but again, it was closed down.
Coming into the last 1km i was sitting in about 5th place as the power and pace increased, holding about 350w and waiting... I managed a half decent sprint and got 3rd. Which for me is pretty rare, but the sprint went better than usual. Power average was about 260w which is about normal for a C race for me.
I can only dream of placing anywhere decent now I’ve been bumped up to cat b. At cat c I might have had a chance of hanging with a front group for a decent amount of time.
I always look after the race at average w/kg and wonder how I placed so far down vs other people. The last race was reasonably hilly too - but maybe not hilly enough to kill the people who have loads of power but are also quite heavy. I’m in the no man’s land between the light people and the heavy people I think…..worst of both worlds 🤣
Another B race tonight - although it was more fun than the last 2 (where I got dropped from the main group then rode a lot on my own) with several groups forming. I pushed along at the front of the 2nd group as we collected people dropped by the lead group. Last 1km gradually cranked up to 400w and then everyone sprinted ffs…..I saw 550w on my screen but I wasn’t fast enough to beat all the people around me.
Did another 295w 20 mins so I think I’m getting fitter. Maybe 4w/kg isn’t too far off if I keep going 🤷♂️
have done the Zwift Race Stage 1 Beach Island Loop twice this week, Monday and Wednesday evening, and jesus christ!! 309w average (about 3.8w/kg) for the first 8 mins in B still sees me getting dropped on the Dirty Sorpresa Climb, it's only a minute long, I just cannot hold on though as it gets too strung out
stupid Zwift 😂
Zwift racing is definitely bonkers, but I’m sure I’m fitter with Zwift than without it… got my annual challenge in front of me tomorrow, when I take on Port de Bales IRL for the first time in a few years to see if my fifty year old self is any faster than the forty something year old equivalent! Wonder if the “19km de Bonheur” banner is still strung across the start of the climb
I think for me I seem to be able to keep up for the most part on the hold but seem to get dropped more on the flats - when the group are pushing along consistently over 300w for long periods of time it’s a bit too much for me at the moment. I seem to be building fitness quite quickly at the moment though - so hopefully it’ll come in due course!
tank emptier yesterday, thought it might be the last day this year for a decent long ride, so I tried to do 100m faster than I'd done before, which I did, by a good 13 minutes I think, with similar elevation
did it in 4:33:01 (moving, I stopped for a coffee and cake after 50 miles, not an animal am I!), 642m of elevation, so quite lumpy for round here 😂, average power of 230w with an average HR of 166bpm
10.5 hours for the week, this ride, two zwift races, 1x Z2 turbo and a 2hr 20m outdoor Z2 ride, quite a productive week, current totals for the year below
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That’s pretty good going - punching out that power as an average on the road where you have to stop / slow down for stuff / go down hills etc seems decent. Especially over a 100m ride. You are an animal I’d swear 🤣
should have had more than a days rest I guess, but working from home today and the weather was too tempting not to nip out, especially seeing as it looks downhill temp wise from tomorrow, almost freezing overnight at the weekend! wtf! little nibble at a circular 42km KOM, nicked it by 10 seconds (39.2kph av) and another within it by 3 seconds 😂, equalled my best 1hr power for 2023 @ 276w, that was a hilly ride though, this was pan flat chip and seal country roads
Hi all,
I've been dipping into this thread (and it's predecessor). Inspiring stuff and nice to see other "old timers" working hard! 🙂 Figured that as I'm 40 this year it's now or never to do a "documented" 4.0W/kg (I like to think I was around that about 15-20 years ago but had no power meter). I bought @st 's trainer in November (thanks- it has been faultless!) and have been hammering "Build Me Up", Zwift Academy, racing and Festive 500 for extra base miles. I've gone from ~76kg to sub- 72.5kg. Just done a smashfest TdZ r1 and zFTP upped to 272W and intervals.icu eFTP to 278W (3.75-3.8W/kg). It's starting to feel like 4.0 is within grasp by spring although I know all the easy gains are over! I'm less convinced by "Build Me Up" now but sticking with it.
Hope everyone has a good 2024. I'll check in occasionally.
That’s pretty close to 4w/kg to be fair.
I had a setback with complex appendicitis and a week in hospital with effectively 2 weeks bed rest after that. Slowly started up pedalling a bit mid December. Now back doing some zone 2 on Zwift and some racing too. Ftp based on best 20 mins in today’s race is 251w and weight is currently 77.5kg.
Need to get back down to 75-76kgs and plug away at the bike fitness. Have done a few mtb rides - quite local stuff in the woods. Thinking of going to Cwmcarn this weekend and see how the climbing goes there.
I got to around 3.7w/kg in the autumn but plateaued since - had covid recently and also Xmas excess, so will have fallen back a bit. Hopefully push on again in the spring.
I got to 4.2 watts per kilo back in 2020 with no structured training and about 6 hrs on the bike a week, so thought I’d try to get back to that standard again start of 2023, and expected to exceed it fairly quickly. Even hired a coach for 6 months
i never got anywhere close..then got injured and Covid, then injured again
Did a full on hr effort the other day. 3.4 w/kg and it absolutely ruined me. Fairly depressing tbh.
Still around 3.8 here, indoor numbers…3 solid months of Z2 and a smattering of threshold work over the last few weeks and I feel in pretty decent shape…found a few watts and increased TTE
About to move onto VO2 based stuff so hopefully enough to push me over the line.
Outdoor numbers are usually a little higher but will come with a reduced TTE, it’s difficult to find 45 minute climbs around here!
No reason to not ride everyday.
Also it's easier to lose weight IME than gain watts.
The reason not to ride everyday is lack of time for me. Turbo helps a bit in the week as it’s so quick to hop on, do a session, then get back on with life.
Id love to be at even 3.4w per kg right now - although injury free I should probably get there by the end of Jan. 251w and 77.2kg as at this morning. So 3.25w per kg right now.
I’m in week 11 of build me up. It’s been hard work, probably because the ramp test over-estimated my FTP. Even after dialling it back from the 276 it gave me to 270 I think I was slightly optimistic. Have been on the edge in the final block of the longer workouts and struggled with some of the high cadence work. Weight has stayed static throughout although that includes Christmas! If I can finish with an actual FTP in line with the ramp test estimate (feels achievable) that will put me at 3.7w/kg, which is up on the 3.3 that I started 2023 at
@sheck - nice work!
I haven’t followed a plan on Zwift yet. I picked my first workout a couple of nights ago from the recovery section for some zone 2 stuff. Find it a bit odd how it does it vs TrainerRoad which I used to use. <br /><br />
I think for the next month I’m going to mix up lower intensity workouts and racing and see how that goes. If it’s going alright I’ll continue it. If I’ve hit a plateau then I’ll start doing some sweet spot stuff.
I’ve been dipping into this thread (and it’s predecessor). Inspiring stuff and nice to see other “old timers” working hard! 🙂 Figured that as I’m 40 this year it’s now or never to do a “documented” 4.0W/kg (I like to think I was around that about 15-20 years ago but had no power meter). I bought @st ‘s trainer in November (thanks- it has been faultless!) and have been hammering “Build Me Up”, Zwift Academy, racing and Festive 500 for extra base miles. I’ve gone from ~76kg to sub- 72.5kg. Just done a smashfest TdZ r1 and zFTP upped to 272W and intervals.icu eFTP to 278W (3.75-3.8W/kg). It’s starting to feel like 4.0 is within grasp by spring although I know all the easy gains are over! I’m less convinced by “Build Me Up” now but sticking with it.
Great work! Are you doing some sweetspot sessions in that program? 2x20 once or twice per week will bump you up to 4W/kg in no time.
20 min sweet spot intervals are horrible though 🤮
20 min sweet spot intervals are horrible though
They're only horrible when you're not used to them. Once the legs learn intensity and duration, then it becomes a very satisfying workout because it's pleasantly hard, but not full gas.
Start with 2x10, then 3x10, then 2x15, then 2x20. Build up to a full hour if you like 🤪 But no there's need to go straight in at the deep end initially.
@jamz - I’m not sure it’s the physical bit of it - more the mental side. Sort of get bored and dislike the intensity at the same time.
Yet if I do a Zwift race I’m obviously on threshold / edge of vo2 at times for the best part of 40 mins and I’m kind of ok with that.
Maybe it’s the ERG factor in that you have to constantly output that power - the systems makes sure you do. Whereas in a Zwift race you can up and down your power a bit.
Gotta train your mind too. Same applies to any interval or to any sort of exercise (possibly even any endeavour at all...?)
'Overload' is not comfortable - it is overload after all - you are pushing beyond what your body is used to. No overload, no adaption, no 4W/kg FTP.
The problem with a Zwift race is that it's a much higher level of fatigue for the stimulus. That is why sweetspot it so good - the fatigue is lowish but the stimulus is very good.
I never do intervals in ERG mode, much better to find the power yourself. Learning that skill will pay dividends in the future if/when you need to pace efforts.
Switch ERG off and learn to feel/pace it, much better once you get the knack.
Zwift races (whilst undoubtedly helpful) are also pretty consistent in how they play out, so managing progression becomes difficult over time.
Could someone explain sweetspot workouts to me using heart rate rather than power as i'm too poor to own either a smart trainer or a power meter. I feel I should incorporate them into some of my turbo workouts but all the guides i've read only use power as a referance point. Thanks.
75 to 85% of max HR from a quick Google, never tried this though so no idea how practical it is.
It's gonna be tricky to do off HR, especially if you haven't set a baseline with power first. For me it would be more like 85-88% of max HR (if I remember correctly - I don't often wear a HRM). But it will drift upwards during the interval.
If you go off perceived exertion then a recovery ride is 1; a chatty social ride is 2/3; upper end of zone 2 is 4; tempo is 5/6/7, sweetspot is 7/8 and then threshold is 9/10 with 10 being equivalent to a 1 hour time trial in terms of effort.
Post 2022/23 illness I tested the other day at 3.1wkg - I have much work to do to get back to 3.8wkg race level and because of my health issue may never get back to that.
Still, I’ll try and am starting with a new coach/plan in February on this basis, following immediately on from the winter plan I’m on now.
Just had a look back to my last SS intervals, 3 x 18m and I was 81, 83 and 83
Did another Zwift race today - I was sure I’d picked one at 7.10am that was 25km ish and less than 200m of climbing. Must have got my wires crossed as it was actually 7am, 32km and 555m of climbing. Had a banana before I started and my legs now feel a bit broken.
That course was effectively intervals with rolling hills - but more like threshold intervals than sweet spot to start with. I faded a bit in later hills vs the couple of guys around me.
No more Zwift racing until maybe Wednesday now I reckon. Cwmcarn mtb on Sunday / rest Saturday and Monday from cycling.
No doubt this is a stupid question - when folk talk about 4w/kg on this thread, is that 20min power? 30min? Or something else?
FTP of 4w/kg.
Ah, ta. Did my first ever Zwift FTP test this eve, I couldn't actually see a w/kg figure for FTP, just the different time durations. But if I calculate it myself i get 3.55w/kg. Got some work to do!
Doubt I'll ever manage 4w/kg, my biggest problem is consistency, no sooner than I start riding well I'll get injured again, or existing injuries will become problematic enough to put me off the bike. Usually low back/hip asymmetry stuff that I've never resolved.
However, hoping to get back on it in February, curiously I'm looking forward to the potential for 2-4hrs commuting a week (25km each way, I used to do about 17km each way which was fine). That'll be a good chunk of Z2 and if I don't ride I'll walk to a closer train station = 30 mins either way and a lunchtime stroll.
Weekends will be traditional base rides initially just to build up distances, and I can also squeeze in two gym sessions a week (plus sporadic short runs).
So in theory come mid-summer I could start putting in some smashy efforts on hills and/or more intense efforts on gravel rides, would be fun to see where I can get to...
4w/kg is proving problamatic for me - I go from one injury / catastrophe to the next….then my weight went up with appendicitis and Christmas food. <br /><br />
Looking back I was at my slimmest / most toned in September 2021 - just before a couple of months of flu / chest infection / Covid! <br /><br />
At the time I’ve as following a TrainerRoad enduro plan with loads of sweet spot training / doing lots of weight training / better diet. It’s not rocket science but it’s hard to stick to.
I’m on an improving run at the moment after appendicitis - hoping I’m not going to get a call to say they need to operate further soon!
FTP is edging back up - 251w at the moment and lurking around 77kg. Need to get back down to the 75kgs I was at a while back and keep going with the cycling. I’m having a bit of a zone 2 week on Zwift this week rather than racing - don’t want to over so it with intensity and burn out.
Rode at FOD for a few hours on the weekend - 19km and 712m of climbing and it felt ok. Was feeling pretty spritely on the hills - although my legs felt a little bit sore the next day. Seeing as this is mostly for mtb fitness I think I’m making progress again at the moment - long may it last!
I did an FTP yesterday (first in a three years...) and beat my all time high from around 2018: I got 318W! Just don't look at the watts per kilo...yikes.
I am quite amazed that I had managed to remain quite aerobically fit whilst putting on far too much weight and only doing intermittent unstructured riding since about 2020. My main goal is weight loss at the moment, but if I can lose 12-15Kg this year whilst not knocking *too* much off that FTP I will be pretty happy.
Climbs have been an absolute struggle these past years.
@elray89 - 318w is pretty punchy - especially if you haven’t been doing any structured training! I don’t think I’ve ever got above 270w ftp - and that was only for a few weeks before getting ill and losing a chunk.
@joebristol - I do suspect my power meter is slightly over reading - but I may have done enough to not have my fitness drop off a cliff totally - with the added benefit of quite a few extra kilos in my legs to push around. I did get quite heavily into powerlifting during my "non serious bike rider" time and got a fair bit broader and heavier, but there's also chips and beer style weight there too in equal measure.
Can fair crank the power out but when it goes upwards I die on my arse trying to keep up with my mates.
I used to be 71Kg with an FTP of 306 as a high point...4.3w/kg! Mad thinking about it now.
Ah yes - the weight makes a huge difference when out on the bike. Compared to when I was 82kgs just being 5 or slightly more kgs lighter feels so much better.
If my turbo/zwift reading is to be believed I'm 3.85. But that's with zwift upping my FTP after decent races.... I've not specifically tested.
Now in the last few races I finished really strong hitting sustained watts that I've not been able to reproduce when on my own, in the climbing portal for instance, which has me questioning Zwift/turbo measurements.
Oh well, guess it's just a bit of fun whether if its true or completely wrong and a good incentive for me to push hard in races
Only been on zwift since Nov I guess, I'm a convert from Sufferfest.
Re races ... Sorry school boy question.... is your given position, your position in your CAT only or the whole race from Cat A through Cat D.
ta
Depends how the race is set up. If you can only see your cat it's position in cat. If you can see all cats then it's overall.
hey all,
4.0W/kg intervals.icu eFTP (294W at 73.2kg) came unexpectedly fast thanks to some hard races (including 22nd in prime time zracing yesterday). Not sure I could quite do an hour at 294 but the breakthrough race was 279W for 57 mins a week ago and I'm stronger now. So it's not far off.
@didnthurt - one thing I've realised since covid is that I can't ride everyday now. The easy recovery days would need to be so easy that I can't be bothered getting into lycra and would rather just go for a walk or gentle jog 🙂 In the last 2-3 years I have gotten ill quite easily and find proper rest really helps. I did a blood test yesterday and found I have a low white blood cell count, which I'll investigate.
@sheck - nice going! I am still on W7 (but with races thrown and social rides thrown in). I'm finding the increased volume and FTP makes it tough to tackle them. Right now I am posting here and "letting my dinner settle" instead of getting on Cucumber.
@tpbiker - I know the feeling of looking at past numbers (actual or estimated) and falling short but I guess we are (mostly) advancing in years. It is just harder..
@Jamz thanks! I'm not doing any sweet spot other than what's in the BMU workouts (nowhere near 2x20 recently). I might trying throwing some in. I did a good zRacing last night in the prime slot and gave up on TdZ so have some flexibility now.
@joebristol - agreed about boredom. Now that the novelty of Zwift has worn off I mostly watch videos during workouts.
I don't think 4W/kg is some special threshold at which mtb suddenly becomes more enjoyable. I'd probably have barely scraped 3W/kg in spring 2023 but still had some fun rides 🙂 Anyway sure you can keep making progress!
@Haze I'm a erg mode convert now. Makes it so much easier to watch videos or chat etc. I get the point about learning to pace but I think that can be done with a relatively low amount of free/pace group rides. Having said that I still get it wrong in races sometimes :/
@Kryton57 hope the new coaching programme goes well. From other posts I saw it sounds like your son is smashing it, which is great. I might come to a beastway race this year.. maybe see you there.
@Ro5ey - I haven't done a proper (long) FTP and also going by zFTP and eFTP. I think zFTP is slight under estimate for me (in October I'd done a 59min AdZ at 251W and feeling good but zFTP was 245W) and eFTP a slight overestimate. In races the adrenaline makes it feel less painful and it's more fun! Before I attempt the long FTP test want to be confident I'll actually hit the mark.
Sorry if I missed any posts, hope everyone keeps smashing it (4W/kg or otherwise!)
@twowheels - big update! Sounds like you’re smashing it - good work. Wish I could get near those figures - if I can avoid further medical dramas I’d like to think I can get my ftp up around 275w and my weight down to 75kgs again over the next few months. Already feeling stronger on the mtb so any increase in power and decrease in weight will help even more.
Did my first leg weight training session since October on Tuesday this week and it still hurts to walk or go from standing to sitting 🤣
Thanks Joe - yes I was chuffed with it 🙂 I did prime time zRacing again last Monday and zFTP now also exactly 4.0W/kg (at 73.0kg). Will do the proper (long) FTP test in week 12 of BMU.
Great you're feeling stronger on the MTB. I did my first 2024 outside ride yesterday at Cannock and logged my fastest "Cardiac Hill" climb since ~2018 (but according to Strava stopped a few metres short of the segment end before turning round).
Argh, yes I know the pain of DOMS after a break from weights! I tend to rotate around squat, deadlift, hipthrusts and hamstring curls (different days). I will try some single leg romanian deadlift soon.
I just spotted the Zwift thread and thought I'd update this too now I've finished BMU and cancelled my sub.
Ended at 299W intervals.icu eFTP and 297W zFTP at 73.5kg (4.04W/kg).
I did 48m 301W AdZ in April but didn't quite have the energy/motivation to push zFTP to the nice round 300W mark.
Maybe next winter. I am dabbling with IndieVelo racing now.
Should there be a Roadie forum section for this sort of thing?
No
Quite timely, with my new coach I've moved to W Prime. But anyway after 4 months of clean training and a bit of racing I yesterday tested to a massive........ 3.2wkg!
The Winter '22 Covid/Bronc/Flu 2 months leading to diagnosed EBV has really hit my Vo2 system, but I'm making improvements, 5% in FTP over that period.