[Closed] Training Power Zones - the final word...?

Coggan for me.

Edit: z4 should be very achievable, theoretically that is what you can do for an hour.

Are you tired/overtrained?

Sorry - upper levels of Z5, for me 4.1 to 4.5wkg over 5 mins is unachievable.    Yes I can average Z4 for an hour at about 3.35w/kg - just.

What does your coach say?

I've an FTP of 266W. I use intervals.icu which takes most, if not all, its power calculations from Coggan and Morton. So my zones are:

Z4 (threshold, 91-105%): 240-279W
Z5 (VO2max, 106-120%): 280-319W
Z6 (anaerobic, 121-150%): 320-399W

Looking at my power curve my best five minute power is 322W so the above zones are pretty much spot on for me. Of course it assumes your VO2max power is 120% or thereabouts of your FTP.

What does your coach say?

I'm at a pause at the moment for various reasons.   But this is the reason I ask.   His prior settings kind of reflect the "U" shaped power curve I have - I have a high z1-z3, I take a dip in Z4/Z5/Z6 but have a relatively high Sprint (15wkg>)

However, I said "yes" to auto reset of my FTP - which was the same as the last one - after a recent test uploaded to Todays plan which has brought down the bottom of that U.   For example, a 5min Z5 would have been 295-330w.  I can hold 305w for 5 mins when fresh.   The reason I'm questioning this is tomorrow I have 5 x 8mins at 295w and to me that looks doomed to failure.  Yet, the auto-calculate range (275w-315w) would be 275w instead.   I reckon I can hold 275w for 8 mins x 5, or most of the intervals/durations anyway.

This is the hardest workout for me hence so many questions, I want to get it right so I improve and don't fail to improve.

Sorry – upper levels of Z5, for me 4.1 to 4.5wkg over 5 mins is unachievable. Yes I can average Z4 for an hour at about 3.35w/kg – just.

Surely that just means that's not the upper limit of z5 and you should be aiming slightly lower on those intervals?

Rather than looking at arbitrary percentages surely you should do a test at 5 minutes, 1 minute and a sprint and train to those? A la The Coggan/Allen's charts and Sufferfests's 4DP tests rather than a simple MAP= 1205FTP, AC=150% FTPetc.

However, I said “yes” to auto reset of my FTP – which was the same as the last one – after a recent test uploaded to Todays plan which has brought down the bottom of that U. For example, a 5min Z5 would have been 295-330w. I can hold 305w for 5 mins when fresh. The reason I’m questioning this is tomorrow I have 5 x 8mins at 295w and to me that looks doomed to failure. Yet, the auto-calculate range (275w-315w) would be 275w instead. I reckon I can hold 275w for 8 mins x 5, or most of the intervals/durations anyway.

This is the hardest workout for me hence so many questions, I want to get it right so I improve and don’t fail to improve.

I use sufferfest, and I know my trainer is inaccurate (but consistent) so ignore the numbers and focus on the message. It tends to show my power is great at 20minutes (325W FTP, 3.8W/kg, in my dreams), but then never really goes anywhere from that, my sprint is apparently ~10w/kg and my 5 minute test always throws up flags to say "you didn't achieve x% more than FTP".

That might be true (doubt it, feels like I'm a better sprinter in real life) which is why it's important to know what "Z5" actually is on my trainer. I absolutely cannot hold the expected value of MAP for 5 minutes on the turbo (could be physiological, could also be the turbo ramping up faster than the software thinks). But crucially if I do a MAP based workout I get to the end of the last interval and I'm barely able to do it.

surely you should do a test at 5 minutes, 1 minute and a sprint and train to those

I did, and thats how my coach set my prior zones, but I've lost the percentages somehow and can't really re-test before tomorrow...

One missed session won't ruin your year, why not just do some tests instead? That or just stick with the 275W figure you know is doable. If it's too easy chalk it up as a rest day and do it again on Wednesday at a few watts more.

I thought 5*8min is just over FTP pace anyway, so scaling it from that should be prefect? It's not supposed to be at MAP (top of Z5).

Gah, I'm such a dunce.  My prior tests were on a watt bike.   This was on my Direto & home setup which we worked out previously shows a circa 8% lower than my watt bike / outdoor power - I need to adjust for that.

And guess what, 295 to 330 - 8% = 272 to 303 so 275w should of course be achievable over 8 mins if I've been knocking out multiple reps of 300w for 5 mins on the Directo recently.

Job done!

Kryton, have you ever looked at your critical power curve? It gives a very good representation of your strengths and weaknesses over your full power range.

Golden Cheetah has this functionality for individual rides and a trend chart for all of your historical rides.

I do have that with 3 years of data in Today’s plan, thanks Eskay.  My question was related to why my proposed numbers seemed so high now, but that’s because I forgot to apply the wattbike / home setup conversion.

I just have an odd physiology that flattens my power curve just after FTP and spikes it at about 30s power onward.  View as a graph with a vertical axis of power and horizontal as time (with zero bottom left), my curve is very much and “L” rather than a “\” if that makes sense.

Somehow my body mechanics overcomes this on flat to 1.5% as I’m able to turn big gears and ride fast, but that stops working at 2% and above as the flatter part of the power curve competes with the next rider whose curve is likely and more naturally less flat.   My coach described it as issues with lactic buffering and low VO2max if I remember correctly.

So, which is more accurate?

For years I’ve used what I was told to - which was Today’s Plan....but looking at Coggan my zones are on average 10w higher. The thing being even the top my Z2 on TP seems really, really, easy....& my gut feeling lately has been my zones are too low. My most recent FTP was about 3wks ago & it felt a really solid effort. I’m going to do laps of the neighbourhood today - literally around my local park (no gnar etc) & checkout my Z2 with a HR belt & compare it to what my power meter says..