[Closed] Training for Mountain Mayhem

Tabata to increase your endurance

10 mins warm up. 10 reps of 20s all out effort, 10s rest. vomit. 5 min watm down 4 ttimes a week.

keeping going is all in the head.

Any lincs based xc ride will be spot on. Muddy bridleway round edge of field.
Perfect training.

Is the course really not that hilly?? After feeling a bit iffy after Kielder I thought I had better train for this one lol.

M-child - it tends to be about 1000ft of climbing per lap. In 2011 the laps were around 10.5miles each with 1350ft of climbing. It soon adds up!!

The nobs on here who criticise Mayhem have probably never done it 🙄

Don't mean to put a downer on this, but I think mountain mayhem is the worst possible event you can chose as a first time solo. I nearly felt like slitting my wrists doing it last year, it was so boring. The course that is, which is the main thing I like (or dislike) about competing.

I can see how teams like it cuz they can blast along in the big ring meaning all the long slow monotonous sections would go by quicker, but I def don't plan on doing it solo again unless the course gets significantly better.. or I get paid for in some way :wink:.

I'd much more highly recommend twentyfour 12, relentless 24 or the 24 hours exposure, all of which I've done and highly enjoyed.

Yeah. There are no huge mountains but it goes up and down enough for the distance. It's not super gnar but to criticise it for that is totally missing the point.

But to say something more constructive, it really depends what your aims are. Keep riding for the whole time?(god help you) ,take a few breaks here and there?
The mileage you have sounds decent. I'd throw in at least one ride a week consisting of a few 30 second sprints with about 4 mins rest in between to help boost the fitness more.

Also last year there was about a 15 - 20 minute run at the start, so if you haven't been running in a while maybe go for a few.

Most of the soloists walked the run section though, from what I could see? There doesn't seem like a lot to be gained from rushing to be in the middle of the melee, if you're gonna be at it for 24 hours. I don't know if the genuinely competitive soloists might give it a good go though.

I'm no expert but don't you need to do some sort of conditioning to force your body to cope with extreme endurance? I.e. go for some 12 hour long road rides?

If you want a good place it is worth taking the run and first lap seriously. You save a lot of time not being held up by the queues into every even slightly technical bit on lap one.

IMO, YMMV, caveat emptor ect ect*

* deliberate

If you want a good place it is worth taking the run and first lap seriously. You save a lot of time not being held up by the queues into every even slightly technical bit on lap one.

Yep.... This ^^^^^

I was fit enough to be competitive, probably could have got top 10, maybe top five, just didn't have the mental strength for that course!!

So anyway I ran the run, but not so I was knackered afterwards. Just enough to get past the majority of the numpteys.

I'm no expert but don't you need to do some sort of conditioning to force your body to cope with extreme endurance? I.e. go for some 12 hour long road rides?

I don't know of anyone that goes for longer training rides than about 7 hours max, MAYBE 8 hours. Theres not much to be gained after that long. Whats more important is the overall weekly or monthly volume of hours.

Anyway, after about 8 hours you go into auto pilot and just keep pedalling. 12 or 24 hours, it's all the same to me really. After a certain point it's all just tiredness anyway. Obv the really competive people ride 12 hour races at a much faster pace then 24's. You'll be surprised how much you really have in your tank when you keep it going though.

There is a lot of climbing. To put this into perspective in terms of elevation gain, last years winner climbed higher than mount everest. The first year I did it, it was very special. Very emotional and an incredible experiance for me. One of the best things I have ever done and I would encourage anyone to try. I have done solo twice now and came in the top 50 last year. The first time doing it is the learning part really. In terms of training I found many 6 - 7 hour rides on very hilly terrain sufficiant to do the full 24 hours. Think in terms of elevation gain when planning training routes and make this the target to beat each time. The race is more mental than anything. Dont try riding up steep hill even from the start of the race. It saves energy to push up very steep parts. swapping between pushing & riding helps stretch your legs/back etc too. Good Luck!

As said, it's not technical, but it is hilly. Despite micky's advice I'd rather just spin up steep climbs than walk, you'll know what works for you.

Getting ahead of the congestion on lap 1 will make a big difference, there are a hell of a lot of riders!

woh there. i wasn't being critical.

i do genuinely think lincs riding would be spot on. non technical, occasional (relatively short) hills, and some HUUUUGE milage available.

also lots of grinding over muddy/slow surfaces.

and i have indeed ridden MM. and will be again this year.

i do genuinely think lincs riding would be spot on. non technical, occasional (relatively short) hills, and some HUUUUGE milage available.

I don't think you can say Mayhem has occasional small hills though, SiTS does, but Mayhem is pretty bloody hilly! Far hillier than 24/12 or SiTS, and on par with Strathpuffer.

I don't know of anyone that goes for longer training rides than about 7 hours max, MAYBE 8 hours. Theres not much to be gained after that long.

I'd dispute that. What you gain is the mental side of the training. Ride away from your house for 6 hours, then turn round and ride back, by the same route.

You'll wish you could stop long before you get home, and you won't even have the novelty of new terrain to maintain morale. If you can handle that without finding a way of bailing out, then you've got one of the key psychological tools for keeping plugging away at at solo.

Aidan of this parish trains for far longer than that. His Strava profile is eye opening 😯

Aidan is a bit daft though 😉

I found regular training, as well as making sure you have rest days were key for me. You'll benefit a lot more from a regular structured routine (I used to do a slow spin session before work, general cardio in the gymn at lunch time and then a longer road ride/turbo trainer session on an evening). Also, I used to use the SIS Rego stuff after hard sessions and I do think it helps recover (I also foudn it good during the race).

Don't forget to do plenty of stretching, you'll be on the bike for a bloody long time, make sure your cockpit is set up comfortable and make sure you ride with a straight back, if you hunch you'll feel it after 10-12 hours! As an aside, my worst injury was from getting a blister jogging the start in rigd spd shoes! Don't set off too quick, and if you hit a steep hill bang it straight down to granny and take it easy so you don't strain yourself for later.

Fuel wise I get along well with electrolyte drink in my camelbak (High5 summer berry), then made a point of having one gel (torq are my favourite), as I went through the start and another when I went back through the campsite. Topped that up with a few mouthfuls of SIS Rego when I came in for a stop, plus the odd clif shot block thing and never bonked/felt empty.

Hopefully the above is of some help and good luck, the atmosphere & support for soloists is great, just enjoy it (or at least try to!).

If its "non technical" why are there so many mincers in the singletrack in the woods, on the steeper descents, the bench cut sections... ?

For a lot of new to the sport riders it [i]is[/i] technical.

Aidan of this parish trains for far longer than that. His Strava profile is eye opening

I'm training for rides that may involve >24 hrs continuous and/or many 16 hour days back to back.

My rationale is that for a single 24 hr race you can burn yourself right down to nothing and cross the line on empty then sleep for a week. When you're in remote back-country and you put 24 hrs to grab the lead, you need to be able to do that and then get up the next day to keep the lead and not get yourself needing rescue.

Proper 24 hr racers train for shorter, more intense periods than me. They weigh less and go faster than me.

If I were to advise the OP, I'd say it's useful to properly trash yourself on a training ride once to know what it feels like. Not good on a regular basis, though.

You should be training (in no particular order):

Your heart + lungs (road is more efficient for this, I don't like it, though, so stick to MTB myself)

Your contact points + joints (the bike you'll race on is best for this)

Your stomach (eating/drinking enough is a skill)

Your brain (completely personal: first time I rode through the night was in my first 24 solo)

Your muscles (important if you ride singlespeed, otherwise it'll take care of itself)

Your enjoyment (go mountain biking somewhere fun regularly or you'll just hate riding)

Depends on what your idea of technical is? Some people think going into woody trails with a few roots is technical no matter how "technical" they actually are. This is all down to what riding they normally do and how much of it. Last year there were a few teams made up of roadies who had never done off road. But dam they were quick up the hills and awful in the woods.

Best advice I can give is treat this one as a learning experience and don't expect too much. You will find adrenaline will take over at the start and you will run too fast. Then wish you hadn't half way round the first lap. Lap 2 and 3 will start to get quicker as the pack spreads out and then 4,5 and 6 will fly by. 7 and 8 will see you starting in the nite and wonder what the hell you are doing. 9 will see you want to give up so you may stop for a few hours, 10 will be a blur and 11 will have your body sensing the dawn and hear the birds in the trees. 12 will be your favourite lap as the sun is on the way up and then your on the home stretch. 13 and 14 will hurt and if you can manage more very well done.

All I can say is enjoy it and if you have a friend doing it solo too, stay with them and also chat to other riders as it makes the pain go away as you can concentrate on getting words out rather than "MY ARSE HURTS"

no, i'm afraid it's non technical.

not imo, just fact.

that course IS NOT technical, and god help anyone that thinks it is.

the reason you come across is mincers is that they are mincers.

no, i'm afraid it's non technical.

not imo, just fact.

It's a reasonable point he made, to the sorts of folk who never ride more than a canal path it probably is. To cycling deities like yourself, who provide skills tuition to Steve Peat of course it's ridiculously easy!

Huge amount of it is in the mind - thought I might as well get some good out of it so did it for charity - after 10 laps I was ready to give in but the I'd told everybody who sponsored me that I could do 16 laps so kept going & managed 15 laps in the end 🙂

Not technical? - at 3am just getting back on yer bike is fairly technical

One man's technical is another man's gnarly, but yes MM is very easy e.g. compared to most trail centres.

The is one notable exception: the MM course is more technical than Thetford Forest's Black graded route, The Beast - but then that says more about Thetford than the MM course 😉

Some good info cheers.
Tech wise I am the kind of guy who blatted around hamsterley and llandegla black on a rigid SS (not willy waving just pointing out tech doesn't scare me) so on my trance x it will be armchair tastic 😀 I got some of those 355s from merlin to lighten the bike a bit (may go tubeless), found my camelback rogue so I don't have the world on my back. What's the crack re rest areas for soloists? Ie to pickup more gels, water etc.

Do you need anything on your back? You're coming back to the same place once an hour or so. Bottle, multi tool, tube, pump, bar/gel/Haribo/whatever. I'd far rather not have anything on my back at all.

I am bottle paranoid ie if they escape lol. After bunny hopping loads at Kielder I thought no Ta lol.

I've dropped one in 12 years! Even if you do, again, you'll be coming back to the same place in an hour! I'd have thought that would far outweigh the benefits of not having crap on your back. Quicker to fill up too, and if you have helpers they can have them ready for you, and you can have a range of drinks, so if you just want water/squash/energy drink for a lap you can have them all prepared.

What's the crack re rest areas for soloists?

There's a marquee by the side of the track where you can leave everything, - have you got some helpers enrolled? its nice to see a friendly face each lap & they can have a bottle refilled etc ready for you to pick up, some very kindly souls even cleaned my bike for me during one break last year 🙂

Mincing through the singletrack bits is the best bit IMO - if only for the wannbees behind complaining, the more I hear FFS, the slower I go 😀

the proper racers manage to pick their spot, call it and go

found my camelback rogue so I don't have the world on my back.

As njee20 points out, try and do it without anything on your back. Use bottles for fluids and seat pack for tools. Your lower back will thank you at 4am. I've never lost a water bottle in all my years of Mayhem, but otgers obviously do. Get good metal cages. (King cage?)

MM is very easy e.g. compared to most trail centres.

Wouldn't agree with that in any way.

10 years ago some folks were complaing that the Penhydd and the Wall wall weren't technical enough. I agree with what the ranger at the time used to say:

"then, you aint riding them fast enough".

I've had more scary moments at MM than on any trail centre.
- 1. You're racing, and so is everyone else (ok abeit at there own level). The adrenaline is up, personally I push myself far harder (in terms of risk taking) under those sort of conditions.

- 2. Fatigue. What is easy on Saturday afternoon is a different prospect in the cold hour before dawn on Sunday

- 3. Most importantly - grip. You compare the MM course to trail centres. Trail centres are all designed with trail life in mind and are therefore all well drained. They all / mostly have a hard / durable surface, and are therefore, pretty artificial. The MM course is as technical as you like when wet. No, there aren't any gap jumps, ladders or steeep drops, but there are plenty of sections where staying upright or keeping the front wheel as the front wheel becomes incredibly tricky

What RKK01 says is true 🙂 At Kielder I foolishly had dry summer tyres on so the mud and sludge made interesting fast cornering 😀 I had a commendable wash out on one section due to loss of focus due to being a smidge tired.

Mincing through the singletrack bits is the best bit IMO - if only for the wannbees behind complaining, the more I hear FFS, the slower I go

the proper racers manage to pick their spot, call it and go

You can't really be serious? It really isn't a difficult course even at speed. As for going fast, I admit I probably could have gone a bit faster, but as we made the 2nd spot on the podium, we weren't exactly hanging around.....

MM is very easy e.g. compared to most trail centres.

Wouldn't agree with that in any way.

10 years ago some folks were complaing that the Penhydd and the Wall wall weren't technical enough. I agree with what the ranger at the time used to say:

"then, you aint riding them fast enough".

I've had more scary moments at MM than on any trail centre.
- 1. You're racing, and so is everyone else (ok abeit at there own level). The adrenaline is up, personally I push myself far harder (in terms of risk taking) under those sort of conditions.

- 2. Fatigue. What is easy on Saturday afternoon is a different prospect in the cold hour before dawn on Sunday

- 3. Most importantly - grip. You compare the MM course to trail centres. Trail centres are all designed with trail life in mind and are therefore all well drained. They all / mostly have a hard / durable surface, and are therefore, pretty artificial. The MM course is as technical as you like when wet. No, there aren't any gap jumps, ladders or steeep drops, but there are plenty of sections where staying upright or keeping the front wheel as the front wheel becomes incredibly tricky

I found last year it was a piss easy course, can't compare it to other years though, only other 24's Ive done. So on that bases comparing it to other 12 and 24's it was very easy and pretty boring I think. What were all the long flat sections through fields all about? --yawn--

I also think Penhydd and the Wall aren't technical. They are fun if ridden fast though!

Anyway, technical isn't what I look for in a race course, for me a course thats fun is most important, with lots of fast flowy singletrack, aka Twentyfour 12. I know mayhem gets much bigger number etc so it's hard to find a venue that can take that many people, but it's not for me.

Theres only so much I'll push it when going 24 solo, but even at speed i didn't find much of mayhem technical, maybe about 5%.

It really isn't a difficult course even at speed.

You're right. For the likes of you. And me. But for lots of riders it is a technical course.

Pissed and blowing my own trumpet...

http://www.32sixteen.com/mountain-mayhem-24-hour-solo-racing/

Yay my thread's famous 😆

@monkeychild My page stats say hardly.

Seriously though since posting the above link I have sobered up, got rid of duplicate ramblings on there, and added more to the above page. Feel free to ask me direct questions in the comments there.

How long is the run?

Last year it was about 1.5 miles. Usually it's about 1/2 mile.

Lenght of run changes. About half mile tops

No as Gee says last year it was far longer. Usually shorter.

Didn't do MM last year. Previous recollections was about 10-15 mins???

Was the run longer last year to string out a bigger entry?

Yes, sorry, run/walk was longer last year. A few 3 mile runs just to get the legs used to it will do you.

Usually it's no more than a 5 min jog/run. Last year was insane. A good 10-15 mins.

I've done the run a few times in the past...

This year I am going for "pre-emptive persuasion" to try and get someone else to do the first lap.

However, I suspect being prepared might be necessary 😕

Proud mincer here, ran a rigid Scandal 29er with SB8s. When the track was wet there were a few bits that caught loads of people out.

It's less techy than a trail center, but it also gets much more churned up. I saw FAR more riders coming off than I'd see at a day at a trail center. The downhill bits are pretty rutted and the heavy traffic means you can't always change lines when you want.

Passed lots of riders with 140-160mm trail bikes and Camelbaks on the uphill sections on the plus side. Not sure why the "mincers" are the guys on smaller bikes, rather than the guys turning up like they're set for Mega Avalanche.

If you want a good time you need to do a reverse triathlete change from running shoes into cycling shoes or learn to run in your stiff soled shoes.

I hated the start last year. Running for 10-15 minutes over rock hard ground wearing carbon race shoes isn't much fun, I had blisters on my feet before even getting on a bike.

Yes indeed Andy... And then after all that pain my bloody tyre exploded...

I really struggled at Mountain Mayhem last year, but then again it was my first ever race and the torrential rain started on my lap, before I’d even got to the Kenda climb. :/ The singletrack sections were fine, it was the wide downhill cart tracks I had issues with. By ‘issues’ I mean going over the handlebars…

I much prefered the Sleepless course, surprised myself by agreeing to do Mayhem again. :s I like the atmosphere of Mayhem, and the [i]idea[/i] of taking part, but didn’t go a bundle on the actual riding. The view on the way up to the Obelisk was nice, when the sun finally came out. 😛

Yes indeed Andy... And then after all that pain my bloody tyre exploded...

shhh. some people are still unhappy you "borrowed" a track pump "left by the side of the track". How clumsy of us soloists...

what bikes do you recomend for these types of events?
thanks

Very clumsy, yes.

GB

Lets hope it stays dry this year !

Think if it was any more technical you would have some serious crashes, organisers have to take into account rider fatigue at 3am and a extreme variety of ability. Surely with most 24hr courses there is always this fine balance to get right.

For those who moan, make it a bit more interesting by having fun!

Like me and my mates:

[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7139/6850305056_dc80810cbd.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7139/6850305056_dc80810cbd.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/ciderinsport/6850305056/ ]DSCF1345[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/ciderinsport/ ]ciderinsport[/url], on Flickr

All for charity mate!

http://www.justgiving.com/team-SUMO

what bikes do you recomend for these types of events?
thanks

Depends if your on a team or solo. If i was on a team for mayhem, I'd want a nice light race geometry hardtail. If solo then 4 inches of travel front and rear max is all you need.

Think if it was any more technical you would have some serious crashes, organisers have to take into account rider fatigue at 3am and a extreme variety of ability. Surely with most 24hr courses there is always this fine balance to get right.

True there is a balance, but don't think mayhem have quite found it yet lol. All the other 24's Ive done were more technical, and on a much more fun course so less boredem. It drives you to want to ride a certain section smoother each lap.

I hope people aren't confusing "fun" with "technical". A fun course isn't always technical, and visa versa. Fast flowy singletrack is fun but not technical a lot of the time.

"I really struggled at Mountain Mayhem last year, but then again it was my first ever race and the torrential rain started on my lap"

Lol - It was dry last year (relative) if it really rains on that course you know about it! Which year was it with the Land Rover climb that was about 1ft deep mud soup?

"I hope people aren't confusing "fun" with "technical". A fun course isn't always technical, and visa versa. Fast flowy singletrack is fun but not technical a lot of the time."

Quite agree with this I actually prefered Mayhem when it was at Sandwell, which is odd because the course wasn't in the slightest technical, in fact some sections were on tarmac. However it did have some fast fun singletrack sections which made it great.

Mayhem where it is these days I think is let down by the amount of grass you have to ride over. I always think that if the race started on the Sunday, ie once the course had beded in, then it would be a lot nicer to ride.

Which year was it with the Land Rover climb that was about 1ft deep mud soup?

Sounds like 2004? That was the first year I rode MM - truly a baptism of mud.

Hated the LR climb

Have vague memories of "snowboarding" sideways on down the edge of a cornfield at 2am.

I'd forgotten all about that field !

It was funny just watching people not being able to stand up on it, let alone ride a bike down it.

Which year was it with the Land Rover climb that was about 1ft deep mud soup?

rkk01 is right, that was 2004. It was nice and sunny to finish. I got tan lines and everything.

Whilst I agree with others about the non techinal aspect of teh course, when you're tired and easy course often becomes more challenging! I remember I made some epic wrong line choices 😆

Really really look forward to this years!

I've not read all of this but did do my 1st solo at Mayhem last year. So in no particular order:

Didn't really have a specific training plan other than my usual weekly riding and xc racing. The longest rides I did were circa 5/6hrs with one 10hr blast along the SDW which actually worked quite well due to the climbing. But mainly I was in the 2-4hr bracket but 3+times a week.

After 12hrs it's mental, prepare yourself for the low point, I expected mine at about 3am it came at 2.36am! Keep eating and drinking, I used flat coke and sprite and alternated with water, used real food until about the 18hr point when I finally had to start on gels and energy bars. IMO if you start on gels and bars/drinks too soon your body could start to reject them, stomach cramps etc! Each to their own though and you'll need to know what suits you fuelling wise before you start. Me fig rolls, bananas were the way forward.

The best advice I had was from Mr Page (24hr European champ, Mayhem winner) and that was don't stop! My pits were literally 3-5mins tops, grab a bottle, a bite of a sandwich, porkpie, go go go. My longest stop was 8 mins for a change in shorts and a quick curry! Some get their times down less than that. But if you can, keep moving once the engine is warm keep it ticking over!

On the hills which Mayhem had lots (2more laps and I would have climbed Everest in 24hrs)after about 10hrs I picked 2 small parts to walk on (I was running a ridiculous gearing 30-42, 11-36 on a 29er)it just allowed me to stretch out and was faster than riding by that point anyway.

FWIW the course was the worst I've seen at Mayhem IMO and I wouldn't solo there again, would try Bonty or Exposure but not this year!
Oh and for the record I did 17 laps and came 7th on my 1st 24hr solo attempt.

P.S. For me the in hindsight the riding was the easy bit, it was the feeling utterly chinned for 2 weeks after with little feeling in hands and feet and still not back to normal on a bike for about 6 weeks.

P.S.S take a spare bike so your pit team (aka the long suffering wife) can clean the mud etc off re-lube whilst you keep going!

2001-2003 were scorching. I remember 2003 in particular - I think it was the hottest weekend of the entire year. People were sheltering from the heat rather than the rain.

2004&5 were epically muddy, but the cornfield in 2004 was a true highlight of slipperiness!!

2006 was dry, dusty and sunny.

2007-8 were wet, 2008 with sideways torrential rain in the night.

2009-11 not that bad, although 2011 was a bit wet at the start.

We must be due another hot one??!!

GB

2004, Saturday

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2004, Sunday

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I'd rather have another wet one than a hot one.

I'd rather use my paddling pool for cooling down than washing, but each to their own.

GB

Gee +1

You take a paddling pool when there are duck infested lakes available for playing in. You are pro

😉

At least if the course was wet it would make it [b]slightly[/b] technical.

Your stomach (eating/drinking enough is a skill)

On my recent LEJOG, I found that "proper" food was much easier to eat - no sickly sweet tastes to get tired of- digested easier without bloating, and provided more sustained energy for back to back 16 hour days.

I've suspected this the last few MMs.

It's our first go at Mayhem this year and we're in the team category.. what's the deal with rider changeovers? Does the course loop back near the start so that you get a heads-up for when your team member is almost round?

Does the course loop back near the start so that you get a heads-up for when your team member is almost round?

Yes it does. From what I remember from last year, you wind through the start finish area and continue on to a different part of the course about 2/3rds the way into the lap.

frogstomp, that is one of the challenges of the event. Knowing how long your team member takes to do a lap so you are there ready for the change over. As the start fininsh is so full of people and tents you can't see people until they come into the final straight.

I sugest you get there early on Friday afternoon, set up and then go for a test lap. You will get an idea of a time for a lap when you are not gunning it then take off 10 minutes and that is your "lap time" has worked for us for the last 3 years.