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Ebbetts tonight, quite tough with those short sprints.
Got through it okay in as much as my arms weren't going numb tonight, definitely felt like a step up from Base 1...
Kaweah was tough, really had to dig deep on the last interval!
Realised this afternoon I've been following the wrong plan! I thought I was doing sweet spot, but I've been doing build! What a knob.
Enjoyed centennial this morning though. 🙂
How are you finding build? May be my next plan to take me through to spring.
Keeler Needle coming up on Tuesday, looks like it may hurt...
Finally looking forward to doing the Novice Race Ftp test after being ill for a couple of weeks. I decided to do Epic Red Wing today to ease myself back in, not as easy as it looked...
Haze - Keeler Needle isn't that bad as long as your head is in the right place. Grit your teeth and go...
Had a good session on Saturday so feeling much better after a sketchy week or so, need to wind the bad habits back in (ie. drinking) and I'm sure I can find my groove again...
Good luck with the FTP!
I'm ashamed to say that I sacked off the weekend workout in favour of going on a muddy cross bike ride with friends, eating homemade brownies then finishing off the weekend with a curry and beer. I should feel guilty, but I don't really 😳
I suspect TR will have its revenge on Tuesday...
Is it just me or has the virtual trainer list been updated and my trainer de-selected? I was a bit confused starting a workout with cadence but no power, had to go in and set it up again.
How are you finding build?
i only did the first week but found the sessions sensible & enjoyable - I ignored all the sit down/ stand up stuff from centennial - that's the stuff i don't like.
I'm interested in doing sweet spot/ 20MP build tempo stuff but i think i'm going to pick and choose workouts as opposed to follow a plan.
I'm going to move between sweet spot base, 20 minute power, 40 mile TT and add in perkins/ colosseum when required.
Just had a break after finishing sweet spot base - low volume 1. Did an 8 min FTP test today, boy u forget those things aren't pleasant - why oh why do we do them???
Thought i'd only improved FTP a few watts, but gone from 245 - 260, so pain was worth it. Not goona bother with a plan until new year maybe enjoy a mince pie or 2 & festive 500.
I now get a feeling to see much more improvement I'm going to have to really up my workload, which I dont think is possible at moment.
Had to share as wife will just look at me blankly if I tell her 😉
Admittedly it was my work xmas party last night, but I just knocked out Cedric, and really struggled to finish the intervals. I'm almost scared enough that my FTP will drop and therefore to start next week's build plan at current FTP and not do the test. 😳
Well if it's going to take a dip then winter's the best time. At some point it's going to go down!
A good [url= http://blog.trainerroad.com/long-road-leadville/ ]blog[/url] post yesterday about training for mtb endurance events and how to structure a long period of training. I'm not doing a trad base this year and I don't know what Leadville is but I might be able to use the "sustained power build" and "xc marathon" plans when they become available.
In other news i've failed 2 and skipped 1 of the 105% interval workouts in the mtb mid volume plan so i'm effectively on the low volume plan! It's easier than an 8 minute test, just can't do it right now.
8 minute FTP test today to kick off the 2015 season training.
Nice increase to 4.2W/kg, hmmm lovely.
6 week intermediate base plan, then Sufferfest Tour, then MTB plan. Training sorted then.
Failed the ftp test today, stop start all the way through the 2 8 minute tests couldn't be consistent, didn't even average my prior ftp. The morale - never test when ill...
I shall carry on the Novice Race at my old ftp and re test in 8 weeks or so. 5 weeks I'll has put me back a fair bit :-/
Not good re test, but treat it as 5 weeks rest. Gives you chance to push hard now your rested..
I've been a bit slack the last month, riding every day but not at intensity just enjoying being out. However using the turbo has definatley helped, picked bits and pieces of mtb plan to try as new to turbo, 20 minute test on decent road bike this week has seen my ftp remain steady which i was happy about.
New year will be mtb plan proper, bring the pain. Not going to lose any weight so all about the power just need another 10 watts to get me to 4.5w kg min by end Mar, first xc race of the season.
First week of intermediate base two completed. Finished off with Palisade which is 5 * 9 minute over and under intervals for a total of 90 minutes on the rollers.
my weekly TSS is usually somewhere between 450-650, usually about 8/10 hours on the bike,
for days like today when i don't want to play russian roulette with the ice should i just jump on any of the high volume work outs around 2 hours?
any recommendations apart form ISLAGIATT ? or after a week off should i go for something with less IF ?
That's an impressive amount of TSS a week dirtyrider!
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Just signed up and also joined the STW club - hope no one minds!
Doing the Traditional Base (mid) to get the ball rolling. 3 hours on the turbo sounds terrifying....
There's an STW club?
Edit: So there is *waves*
Ok so I've been dabbling with the traditional base training plan for the last few weeks but work and a cold have meant I've not been on the turbo for the last 2 weeks so looking to get back in to some training this week now I'm feeling better but can't face the boredom of Whorl so looking to do something that's going to improve my endurance and keep me interested.
Was thinking of doing the Sweet Spot - Base 1 but not sure if this fits the bill for what I'm after. Anyone have any suggestions or should I just get on with this plan?
The Sweet Spot base plans look good to me. Do a plan that you can realistically achieve rather than attempting something way too advanced and failing. For the majority of folks following any of the plans will give them 90% of the benefits of following a plan tailored to their exact needs, and without the cost of getting one created for them.
Nice consistency dirtyrider, what do you don the road/trail to complement that? To answer your question, sort of, I'd say two one hour sweet spot sessions in a day would be better than one longer session if you're searching for ideas/inspiration.
Nice consistency dirtyrider, what do you don the road/trail to complement that?
thats all outdoors, I've done 1x 30 minute session on the turbo since March
2x 1 hour sound good, kids might hinder that however, just looking at sessions for winter days rather than following a plan, might do the 8DC rides
What do you use to get the TSS number? Strava premium or Golden Cheetah, as you can't, as far as I know, use TrainerRoad to create one from a normal Garmin type file.
Training Peaks gives the above graph, power meter on road/mtb though
And running too. Training peaks uses a variety of TSS guestimates based on pace, HR etc.
Interesting that it can interpret running data as well, is that available in the free or paid for version?
I'm not too sure, I'm using the paid version, there's a subset of data views in the free version but I don't know if rTSS is covered.
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/running-training-stress-score-rtss-explained
http://help.trainingpeaks.com/entries/22985260-Training-Stress-Scores-Explained
BTW if you do try the free version of training peaks, when you first use it, the site looks like it's got sweet FA on it, you need to upload a bit of data and start click on all the discreet little icons to discover stuff.
You can still see TSS on the free version, gives you as TSS figure without a power meter as well as long as there is HRM data, I don't pay for it, they keep giving me free weeks, and it auto grabs my data from Garmin Express when I connect it
Thanks I'll check it out. Any chance there is a Strava import function?
Hmm more numbers to play with, interesting. Also coming in at 450 to 500 TSS per week for the few sample weeks I decided to upload and test.
No TSS graphing on the basic level but it plays quite nicely with TrainerRoad output files, and slightly less so with Strava ones, (no HR data on running sessions, but as its exporting as GPX then I guess that's not a real surprise).
Question is, is it worth uploading my data to another site?
Thanks I'll check it out. Any chance there is a Strava import function?
if you tick the right boxes on training peaks/strava then sure,
when i plug in my garmin, express auto uploads it to Connect, it then appears in my Training Peaks account and also in my Strava account should i wish (i don't use this option, i manually upload to Strava so i can select it as a trainer ride so it doesn't show in my YTD mileage)
After creating a training peaks account I can't find any of that via iPad, despite the "import the last 30 days"mnot revealing any data. I am trying it with an iPad though, will try a pc tomorrow.
I've 3hrs on a train tomorrow within which I shall be re adjusting my documented plan to account for the past five weeks gone missing, then coming home to Langille in a cold - but only for a short while - mancave.
takes a while to populate the data maybe?
right what am i missing here, satori set on level 5, too much resistance on the tyre? i should just buy a direct drive job, hate this setting up variables bollocks
right, same bike, data a week apart,
trainer road graph is first 20 minutes of 8DC Stage 1 2014, the 2nd is a commute last week,
on the trainer, id done nothing higher than 261W in the Tempo section (after the sprint) and my HR was creeping towards 190bpm,
commute, 31km, Average 267W, Average HR 168 - over 57 minutes
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right what am i missing here, satori set on level 5, too much resistance on the tyre? i should just buy a direct drive job, hate this setting up variables bollocks
So if same bike, from the second graph you have a PM but from the first you are using virtual power on the turbo? Confused. Not even sure what the question is.
Virtual power figures are likely to be different to PM figures (so 250 watts on one may be much lower or higher on another.) Also riding on the road is different to riding on the turbo. Looks a chilly commute too which may result in HR being a lot lower. Was the level of fatigue the same for both efforts. Just loads of variables!
im not using virtual power on the first?
fatigue? i just had christmas off versus 12 weeks of 200/300km a week on the commute graph
im not using virtual power on the first?
I'm confused again, is this a question?
right what am i missing here, satori set on level 5, too much resistance on the tyre? i should just buy a direct drive job, hate this setting up variables bollocks
This also led me to believe you are using virtual power. If you are using a PM then none of that matters.
no was not using virtual power on the first,
just popped into the kitchen, same gear ratio, settled into a 90rpm cadence,
first pic, selected virtual power, tacx satori power tap 5 from the profiles
second pic, unselected virtual power, so its using actual power data
my outdoor FTP is 295W - i have TrainerRoad set at 300W, so why am i dying on my arse trying to put out 260w
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i guess the answer is to do a 20 minute test indoors
👿
Week 5 of Sweet Spot Base 2 tomorrow, finding the 90 minute sessions particularly tough at the moment.
Motivation has slipped a touch but there's enough left to get through this week, next week is a steady one which I may vary a little just to fit in some workouts I'm familiar with and can look forward to. Probably revisit some of the old favourites out of interest, can turn them down a little to keep the 'recovery' aspect.
Then have a full week before my first crit, maybe repeat the easy week to keep well rested?
Serious question - I failed an FTP test ( after illness) but need to continue into my plan for timeliness. On the basis of the difference between completing intervals successfully (long ones such as 8/10 mins) or not should I lower my FTP by a nominal value?
From a fitness/developmental perspective more important to complete the interval entirely at a lower output or complete 3/4 of it and try to push myself even it means not completing it to the end and possibly compromising the final /3rd interval?
The workout texts always suggest scaling down so that you can complete. Personally I am having to face the fact that I can't do the long vo2max intervals and will need to set them all to 95% from the start. I wouldn't even describe the problem as pain its just a sort of hopeless feeling.
Generic answer from my perspective for this time of year, reduce the intensity and complete the session. Had it been June and the middle of the racing season I'd have personally hit the numbers for as long as possible.
I'd like to Swedish Chef, but after almost recovers from 5 weeks of Chest infection I had food poising yesterday. I'd like to get a session in today, have an easy club ride tomorrow and Langille again Friday, with 100k base on Sunday.
So perhaps Langille at 95% today is best...?
Did Carson TC yesterday,
Something's not setup right, this was using VP with the satori powertap profile on level 5
5% probably only equates to 10 - 15 watts so I'd go with time on the trainer and complete at the lower intensity, maybe nudge it up steadily over the next week or two.
Bald knob at 95% is my default tapping out the blah session that I use.
Dirtyrider - is your intensity factor the key? You way over 1 - aka over your ftp for an hour. Unless you are Wiggo in disguise I'd suggest you've typed your power meter Ftp into TR, and the two don't corresponded. I'd do a 8/20 min test using virtual power, let TR set the Ftp which at my guess would show higher than you have it.
IMO the differential between your powermeter FTP and the VP ftp is due to TR's algorithms.
my outdoor FTP is 295W - i have TrainerRoad set at 300W, so why am i dying on my arse trying to put out 260w
Bit of a long-shot but was your outdoor ftp set with a power meter or from Strava's power guestimate?
I only ask because 261watts to achieve 33kmh on your commute doesn't sound right, unless your commute is through a muddy field.
If you've selected your bike type as 'mtb' in Strava, it will assume that you are riding though a muddy field and will give vastly inflated power readings if you're riding on road / hardpack.
Apologies if I've misread and you are actually using a powermeter on the commute.
Yup I have a power meter on the road bike
Now I'm curious as to what the terrain is like on your commute:)
I don't have a power meter (though picking up a 4iiii one on friday), but strava and various bike power calculation websites would typically give me a figure of around ~200 watts for 20mph, I guess it would be higher on the hoods, but I don't think 60 watts higher.
Maybe the power meter is out of calibration?
Such a relief. I finished Langille without dropping my rhythm on the 3 x 10 intervals, so performing it at less than 100% was good for my motivation, and I could have gone slightly harder so with 5 weeks off ive survived a major trauma of massive power loss and go into 2015 carrying my power gain over from 2014.
Onwards and upwards!
Kennedy Peak for me last night, all two and a half hours of it! Knocked up a few percent it looked a pretty good substitute for a z2/z3 road ride and wasn't as tedious as I thought it would be.
Something isn't right in my setup. Just signed up and tried to do the 8 min ftp test. I'm finding it really difficult to hit the power targets, they seem really low. To hit 100 my cadence is about 35!
At a more comfortable 90rpm I can easily hold 500w which clearly isn't right.
Setup is:
26" mtb with tacx turbo tyre (notice there isn't a wheel diameter setting.)
Elite volare mag elsatogel turbo
Bluetooth speed cadence sensor
Polar gem
IPhone 6
Any ideas?
I'm downloading the software to my laptop now to try.
Any help would be great. Thanks.
The first time you use it you can ignore the target power.
But yes 500 seems high. Have you amended your settings to reflect what trainer you are using
There's also a setting for wheel size in the local app (bottom of the devices tab I think).
Make sure that is right otherwise the revs of the smaller wheel will show you as faster / more power than you are generating.
Yeah I've picked my trainer and resistance. It's way out. I think it's closer picking the correct resistance level of a slightly different trainer. An Elite Volare Mag Alu instead of an Elite Mag Force Elastogel.
On this setting at 90rpm, resistance 2 of 5 I'm seeing 165w instead of 390w.
I'm going to email them I think.
My laptop doesn't connect to my speed sensor or hrm. Ffs.
No wheel size option on the app.
Can you change the wheel size later and have it recalculate?
Wheel circumferance is in the settings page, right at the bottom, you may need to scroll down.
Not seen this covered yet, is there a way to extract the power curves?
Mine seems a little light compared to some of the graphs I've found on a Google image search, I know consistency is key but just wondering if I should maybe tweak my set up to bring it closer to the published curves.
Just do the FTP test(s). Each time you'll get more proficient at riding consistently over the interval period and your power measurement, albeit it virtual will get to a point that matches your physiological ability.
Tough week this week:
Today: 1hr 20 mile road ride including hills out and a 5 mile TT threshold interval over rolling roads back home
Tuesday eve: Givens
Thursday eve: Black Cap
Saturday morn: Temple
Sunday: 100k club ride.
But I'm feeling good - bring it on!
Fair old chunk of TSS there!
So who's up for this year's Tour of Sufferlandria?
Looks a real treat, especially the last two days!
I've donated to the Davis Phinney fund and have changed my training plan to incorporate it, I'll be using TrainerRoad but I'm not sure how long I'll last at the recommended power outputs.
Starts on Saturday 24th Jan:
Elements of Style + The Long Scream - 1:10
Blender - 1:40
Fight Club - 1:00
Nine Hammers - 1:00
Angels - 1:00
Local Hero - 1:25
The Rookie - 1.00
Revolver + Violator + Half is Easy - 2.25
ISLAGIATT - 2:00
Fair old chunk of TSS there!
I wish there was some way of entering the road ride content into TR. I end up with a TSS of about 165 in TR, but if I added in the road stuff it'd be way up on that
Is there a method of calculating TSS? I use Strava if that helps...
Spend your Stava money on Training Peaks instead and use that for analysis. Works TSS and NP of rides into detailed performance management charts. Training peaks can work out a TSS based on HR too, though it's not as accurate as if you have a PM.
I think Strava have done a lot of work on their "suffer score" though don't know how that relates to TSS. Similar idea I think.
Chef, maybe next year 😉
First FTP done. Dear Lord that was hard work, first interval I pushed too much too often, second one found a rhythm and pushed it out more. Wish I had picked a slightly higher trainer resistance as I was flat out in the biggest gear.
Changed my turbo bike to a road bike which I've never ridden before too lol.
I picked a different turbo in the end, from what I can see TR have it wrong, they list two mag force elastogel. One was way out.
Ftp came out at 198. Here's my session, any comments welcome as I'm not sure what to make of the results, I'll see what the training goes like at this power. Thanks.
Nothing wrong with that graph, looks pretty good for a first attempt!
Expect to see large gains very quickly as you get more used to taking the test and riding with/to power.
Best bet is to try a half a dozen sessions and make an evaluation from there, if they all feel too easy then either add 10 watts to your FTP and repeat until you can't complete the session or re-take the test.
Thanks for that, good to have some feedback.
Looking at the flow chart it recommends that i do the sweet spot base 1. Is this the best to go for?
I don't race at any level yet, i mostly ride for fun but want to get faster on gravity type stuff but would also like to get to the top of the mountain quicker and easier. i will probably enter a few gravity enduros and DH races this year.
Sweet spot base 1 started. No issues from me.
[url= http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/1443820-Mount-Field ]Mount Field[/url]
Glad to see a long term training plan come out but a bit earlier would have helped TR! Guess I will finish the current MTB plan then put a build phase in.
philwarren11, good effort there. How did that feel? Have a look at the TSS and IF values, they tell you a lot about a session, get to know what they feel like. You should have a good feel for the RPE of sweet spot now too.
Felt fine if im honest, ive done a few zone 2 HR sessions over the past few months (not many tho) and this felt like that. At no point did i struggle at all, I do find it very difficult to do the low power outputs tho, spinning with no real effort needed, almost bouncing.
spinning with no real effort needed, almost bouncing.
Usually that's poor (or sub-optimal if you prefer 😳 ) pedalling technique but there will be a cadence at which everyone exhibits the problem.
Hmm, seen the new plans? I appreciate you can continue with the old ones, but I was going to start MTB after I finish Novice race in Feb.
Now it'd be Speciality plans/off road/ XC olympic I guess?
Xco is the same as the old MTB plan but they now reckon you should precede it with an 8 week build. First Southern xc is 1st March so it won't all fit in now but I was expecting to train all year anyway so I will be in form at some point.
Oh that good - I'm effectively on the same general planning as you akak using Novice Race to build now, and some road crits to sharpen up before the Mud Sweat and Gears series starts in March.
So I'll finish that and move on to XCO.
Felt fine if im honest, ive done a few zone 2 HR sessions over the past few months (not many tho) and this felt like that. At no point did i struggle at all, I do find it very difficult to do the low power outputs tho, spinning with no real effort needed, almost bouncing.
If you were spinning with no real effort during the sweet spot intervals then you've got your FTP set too low! Do a few more sessions and get use to pacing on the turbo. Could could nudge your FTP setting up a bit too. Then consider retesting.