TrainerRoad - STW approved sessions

@Haze
Me too, just joined STW team on TR and see you there (& others). I think we're about same level, so be interesting to see what Sweet spot base 1 does??
I had a nice (if thats correct term!!!) raise in FTP as haven't done for a year. This is a good nerdy thread for TR fans. Thanks jon

A question; I had a bad day in the office - in my opinion - when doing the 8 min test for Sweet spot 2. I did the first workout and felt it could have been a few % harder. Should I trust TR or raise the FTP manually a bit?

I say that but I have Keeler Needle tomorrow....

still waiting for the iphone app. FB suggests it may be immenent.

which is good as i'm stuck in abergloom this week.

Sorry Jonno missed your post, looking forward to Goddard tomorrow? Only 60 minutes this time!

I was in the same situation Kryton (except keeler needle was put in after I'd started the plan) and I have stuck with it rather than raise. First failed session on Sunday as well and a few signs of overtraining so I have to be more careful what I'm doing in the real world.

I may have mentioned this before 😉 but the test just gives an estimate. It's an estimate of the power you could sustain constantly for 60 minutes. For some an 8 min test may give a decent estimate, for others it may not. If you think it's high or low then tweak it.

I think its reasonably accurate for me, as i usually find the workout reasonably hard, sometimes get of the turbo wobbly and have aching legs an hour after, but I wouldn't say I was in the James Cracknell passing out stage at the end of each one.

Sweet Spot isn't supposed to be that hard anyway is it.

But my test - I was good for 6 mins on the first 8 min interval but was suffering with leg pain, then (stupidly) convinced my self to change down for 30 seconds before changing up and finish the final minute. On the second test the same, although once I changed up gain I couldn't get a rythm going. I did gain 1w, but the latter 1/4 of each interval was "spikey" in the profile. If I'd have been consistent I reckon perhaps a 5-8w gain?

I was very tired - as in kneel on the floor and take a breather for 5 - after the test though.

Sweet Spot isn't supposed to be that hard anyway is it.

Depends how long the interval 🙂 An hour at that pace should be manageable and not leave you totally spent as it is slightly below your hour max. Try something like Galena, a 3x20 sweetspot. You should be able to comfortably complete that.

You could have a go at something like Table too as a way to validate your FTP. Should be hard but doable. If you finish it comfortably then FTP is probably too low, if you're on the limit towards the end then maybe too high.

I was very tired - as in kneel on the floor and take a breather for 5 - after the test though.

I had a sick bucket next to the turbo last time I tried it 🙂

If you think it's high or low then tweak it.

It's unlikely that someone new to threshold testing is going to get an accurate result on their first couple of attempts. When I started TR I did the 8 min test twice in 3 days and went from 234-263w...clearly my fitness hadn't changed one iota, but my understanding of the effort required had.

Anyhow, regarding the FTP tweaking; I did this repeatedly through the Sweet Spot II plan...complete a few sessions at FTP, bump it by 5 points....complete a few more, another 5 points. This took me from 263-300w by the end of SS2. I did wonder whether I was pushing it too much, i.e. turning SS intervals into threshold / VO2 max efforts, but it all seems to have worked out OK. Just go on your gut feel.

If anyone's looking for a quick workout to fit in when they're short on time then I can recommend [url= http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/12315-ride-fit-master-blaster ]Ride Fit Master Blaster[/url] - 36 minutes of high intensity intervals with short rest intervals. Great for early mornings before work.

[url= http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/20594-pensacola-stage-race ]Pensacola Stage Race[/url] is quite interesting. It looks doable, not too tough, but has a nice sting in the tail due to the intervals ramping up meaning the last couple of rest intervals aren't 🙂

I race TT so last winter from Jan to March I followed their 40k TT prog. It gave me a great boots in FTP, around an extra 40 watts over 12 weeks. I PB'd all my distances early in the season.

I'm currently on the 11 week Competetive cyclist prog. If you want a brutal session try Givens. 2 lots of 3 intervals at 110%, 120% and 130% FTP, 3 minutes at each level.

I'd also recommend following a programme, that way you get proper structure and an easier week every 4th week to help recover rather than doing it adhoc and becoming fatigued.

Sheesh. Although my quads were burning in the last 20 seconds of each Keeler needle intervals, I didn't struggle through it. I've 3 x 12 mins on Thursays preceeding a long weekend away on the mtb, so I'll think I'll leave my Ftp as it is for that, and up it next week.

Goddard tonight, probably my least favourite to date.

Form sprints were okay but struggled with finding a good cadence for the required power in the spin ups and ended up working too hard (although no bouncing).

ILT's were a pain in the arse, I used to do this for a laugh on the way back from the pub. I guess practice will bring perfection but I'm not sold on them enough to spend lots of time working on them...are they really worth it?

Antelope on the other hand was excellent....

Seems a tough week this week - all muscular endurance. I completed Jepson which is 4 x 8,mins close to FTP intervals, with 3 x sprints included per interval last night - just - using Jen's "shut up legs" philosophy. The final set of sprints had that "I might be sick" feeling meaning I had to ride through that and the lactic build up for a minute before setting back into an FTP sized interval.

I'm glad today is a off day!

Mary Austin really did not suit my condition on Sunday night. I have a dead training week after this so may revisit some workouts I flunked from sweet spot 2.

My heart rate strap worked for 18 months on outdoor rides and I didn't even know it was meant to be washed but it fails frequently on the turbo. I think this is because with no shirt on all upper body sweat is captured and evaporated from the chest strap leaving the salts behind. How does a cool base layer compare to a bare chest?

Sounds like a dodgy strap, they don't last that long. Should work either with shirt or without? I had to get new one recently as last one died after about 18 months, no probs now inside or out, shirt / no shirt! I do now rinse after every ride & detach sensor.

You need to wash a chest HRm strap? I never have, its been going for two years and is 2 months into a new battery.

I stick lick it damp before every session, oh yes.

In other news, I made a mess of Soloman on Sunday not being able to complete the VO2 max intervals after the 3rd (of 9!), good grief thats a tough one.

latest garmin strap says to wash after every 7 uses

I've had one of the old style garmin HRM, must have had this one about five years now, don't think I've ever washed or cleaned it 😳

Solomans looks pretty evil, notice the last 4 intervals step it up a bit too!

dirtyrider - Member
latest garmin strap says to wash after every 7 uses

Not the computery bit surely?

Solomans looks pretty evil, notice the last 4 intervals step it up a bit too!

Yeah. 6 x 3 mins at 15% FTP, then a threshold interval which looks like its nice little rest period, but starts to nag at your legs toward the end, then your faced with 4 x 2 mins at 130%.

I did it on Sunday and only has an hours sleep since Thursday (baby traumatised by fireworks), so wasn't anywhere near the best place to complete it.

Not the computery bit surely?

Not sure if serious

I am.

I don't see how not washing the elastic strap only affects it in the way jonno101 suggests. In fact it wont, but I could understand how wiping down the actual unit to clear it of salts would help, but sticking it in a washing machine would kill it.

just the strap, not the snap on plastic unit

Thanks dr - to quote from the pdf "A buildup of sweat and salt on the strap can decrease the ability of the heart rate monitor to report accurate data"

What I get is during a workout HR readout will drop - see this ride for an example of when it was particularly bad http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/1151336-Beacon

Washing it fixes the problem. New battery fitted correctly made no difference. I assume that the buildup of electrolytes in the fabric bridges the left and right chest pads and confuses the electronics.

I’m thinking about giving this Trainerroad a go, think I have all the equipment (Bike, Turbo, Garmin Dongal, Laptop, HR strap, Garmin 500.)

However, I already have a training plan that I (try to) follow. Does Trainerroad have a library of sessions to choose from as opposed to using their training plans? I’d like to be able choose one of their sessions to match what my training plan says I should be doing. E.g. If I should be doing an hour long speed session, choose an appropriate session from Trainerroad.

Cheers.

Jase, you don't need the 500. You'll want a speed/cadence sensor unless you have a power meter.

TR has a very large library of sessions to chose from. You can also create your own using the workout builder (very easy to use.) So the choice is yours. As for the TR plans, it up to you if you want to follow one, which session you pick, and how you go about it.

Cheers MrBlobby.

Have the Garmin GSC speed/cadence sensor. Sounds good, I'll sign up and have a play over the weekend.

Hi,

Sorry if it has been covered previously, I currently do not have the time to search all the pages.

I am time limited when I can use TR, which tends to be when Jnr FD has gone to bed. If I do an 1hr long Sufferfest its nearly 9:30 before I sit down to eat. I also end up doing them quite ad hoc.

Are there any TR programmes with sessions that last 30 or so minutes?

I just looked at the time limited one, and even then 1 day was 45 mins, the other 60 mins.

Thanks

There are plenty of sessions you can do in 30 minutes or less.

Tabata, 4 * 4 minutes off 2, 15/45's etc.

The time limited ones are talking about total training time per week, not per session.

If you look at the "Workout Library" and sort by duration there's a load of sessions 30 minutes and under. You can also build your own versions of other workouts and distil longer workouts down to its more essential parts.

It would just be good to have a structured thing like the TR programmes to vary it a bit?

To be honest I dont have a clue what I should be looking at doing. ie I imagine doing 4 session of Tabata per week wouldnt be easy or as beneficial as mixing it up a bit?

Is it just the fact that you are on the bike and pedaling that is good, or are the TR programmes gaining you fitness by doing specific things week on week.. if that makes sense?

Workout creator works really well, I'm thinking of recreating a load of workouts to remove all those wretched ILT drills...

It would just be good to have a structured thing like the TR programmes to vary it a bit?

To be honest I dont have a clue what I should be looking at doing. ie I imagine doing 4 session of Tabata per week wouldnt be easy or as beneficial as mixing it up a bit?

So therefore it would be good if TR could put some programmes together of say 30 mins 3 to 4 times a week 🙂

You could just knock up a programme based on the sub 30 min ones available. You could mix up ones with longer intervals like Slide with shorter ones like Star. And maybe plan in longer less intense sessions on the weekend if you have time.

FWIW, I have the same issue with Blobby Jrs. I'll usually have a light tea with the kids around 6 and get on the turbo before 8pm, and it can be gone 10pm by the time I'm done. Oaty protein shake, shower, then try and get to bed before 11 for a disturbed night due to pesky waking kids, and the latest they'll get up for good is 7am 😕 Could be much worse though!

Same here - post kids betime workouts or preshower morning up at 5am workouts. Just got to fit them in.

Trevor's book is £1.94 on kindle http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00PHINEDU

Just thought i'd share, seems good so far 8)

thought I'd join in this thread 🙂

I'm using TR during the winter to build up to the TT season.

currently racing CX, so doing CX medium plan till December 20th, then the 12 week TT mid plan.

did Grassy ridge last night. 9 x 30 second sprints, 3 sets. incredible to see the power drop off on set three, this is where TR really comes into it's own compared to just following a sufferfest video, or similar...

I actually did Grassy Ridge tonight as well, its the last session before the national champs, (in Sweden), this weekend so I was looking for a good session for a little form tweaking, nothing too intense but enough to wake up the legs.

Same here - post kids betime workouts or preshower morning up at 5am workouts. Just got to fit them in.

You do indeed. Spinning away on the turbo at 5am to get a session in before the kids get up. Ridiculous behaviour when you think about it 😉

Ridiculous behaviour when you think about it

Feels great at morning coffee knowing you've already done today's session though. Smug 😀

... and that is definitely the worst thing about having to leave it till 8 in the evening 🙁

Well, this last few months I've quite enjoyed sitting on the patio in my bibs during the evening instead of watching the same old shite on the telly. I've had a few lunchtime opportunitys whilst wfh but it makes my day really rushed. I am on the verge of relocating into the mancave though as the temperature falls....

I think my neighbour thinks Im a bit odd. .

iOS app is available in the store for those that want it...

Hmm. You can't select workouts by plan, meaning I have to login to the site before knowing what to do.

Also, how is virtual power etc going to work without ANT?

ANT+ dongle for the phone, or get a bluetooth speed/cadence sensor (lots of them about now, [url= http://www.wiggle.co.uk/topeak-panobike-speed-and-cadence-sensor/ ]this one's[/url] only 30 quid) or PM. Tempted for when away from home.

I've got a usb dongle. I guess you can get some kind of adaptor for an iPad mini.

Edit: yes you can.

I don't think you can just plug your USB dongle into an USB adapter for the iPad. You need one of [url= http://www.wiggle.co.uk/garmin-ant-plus-adapter-for-iphone/ ]these[/url]. 35 quid isn't too bad.

First session done. 20min FTP. That was relatively unpleasant...

heres a question. looking at my data from last night, should HR be relatively constant through the 20min test? Mine steadily rose from 160ish to 180ish at the end. Virtual Power was pretty constant at a level I thought I could maintain.

Do you know your max hr? Not easy to pace the tests, when I started I did the 20 followed by the 8 minute the following week which I would say is more relevant to MTB.

My own test went a bit better this time, I felt like quitting and couldn't hold enough power on the second effort but kept it close to target. Muscular endurance seems to be lacking.

I would have thought that HR should rise steadily as you fatigue through the interval. If it stays steady, you're not working hard enough. I can't quite get to my max HR by the end of the second interval of the 8 min test, but I get close.

I've done 6 separate 8 min tests since I signed up for Trainerroad a year ago, and I find I'm still learning how to pace them. It's definitely something that improves with experience.

Mine steadily rose from 160ish to 180ish at the end.

Yes, HR can take a while to track power. During a 20 min threshold effort, for example, mine takes a good 10 minutes to get to around FTHR.

For a 20 min test you should be at your max towards the end.

I had enough left to push on a bit in the last minute and hit 184bpm, max I seen before is about 188.

It also rises the more tired you get. I did 9 2 minute vo2 max intervals at >110 revs last night. My max hr is 178' my first interval topped out at 162 and the last 173. If you look at the HR profile the general trend is it get higher the longer the workout goes on.

It was Mills, jeez did it hurt. I couldn't complete them all losing about 20 secs of cadence or changing down a gear at then end of the interval of but according to the on screen instructions this is perfect as long as the initial 45secs/1min at v02 max is achieved. I completed the 9th by gritting my teeth and imagining I was winning a crit, but felt very sick and unsteady for about a minute after.

Fwiw, after 8 months of TR I think I've reached a point where my Ftp gains will be much more marginal than in the past.

Does anyone else do there workouts on an incline based resistance with a view to improving power quickly? 😈

Finished Sweet Spot Base 1 yesterday, low volume so it doesn't interfere too much with actual riding opportunities.

Given the last week was a 'recovery' week think I'll head straight into Base 2 on Tuesday which will take me through to early Jan (I may miss the 30 min Wedsnesday spins).

Lands me 1 week in front of the local winter crits if I decide to throw myself in...

That's my plan too - hoping to also manage the MTB plan before the XC season starts in Spring.

I've been missing out most of the weekend long rides in favour of at least one MTB ride a week, as I'm also commuting 4 or 5 days a week as well as doing the other 2 turbo sessions. I think I'll also miss the Wednesday low intensity workouts in the plan - it's just too much riding.

Gonna give the 8 min test a shot later... not looking forward to it!

I actually did the Wednesdays but I would have skipped them if I could have done any real riding instead.

Yesterday we had a rare lie in that made us late and I tried to fit in my workout before breakfast...big mistake I was useless. My best arrangement seems to be eating a half dinner with the family, wash up, workout then eat the rest.

Have run out of video to watch...take the star wars box set to the garage?

Thinking the crits could be a good indicator of how things are going, get those done then intermediate build up to spring. There's a Thursday night road league April to July that's tempting if I'm feeling it.

I'm waiting til Tuesday for my 8 minutes though, can't say I'm looking forward to it either! I'd be happy if it hasn't changed much tbh, won't be too disappointed as it's just base work?

Well, that's the closest to death I've felt in a while! Felt good though. FTP up 10 from 192 to 202, so I'm edging closer to where I was last spring.

54 miles off road today seems to have sorted my cough out for now. FTP test Tuesday Xc race at the weekend before a build plan for jan/ feb crits. 😈

Just got a wahoo kickr and started using tr, first time turbo user. Works great, tr controls the kickr so no hiding place. So much 'easier' to do intervals with no distractions was getting bit dangerous trying to do on road and trail.
Started to look at mtb plan with the aim to start that in the new year ready for xc season, Katahdin was a good workout. FTP test much better to do on a turbo as well. Should have done this years ago...

Just 99% finished Sweet Spot 1 low volume too (well I got to do Brasstown, just to say I have actually finished it?)
I think Ill have a week off turbo, then just do an 8 min test just for shits & giggles ;))

I'm not sure what plan to do next, problem is I can only do 3.5 hrs Max per week, so would like one more intense but dunno which one? Also Im gonna wait until new year, as every Xmas have ambitions of Rapha Festive 500, but always fall short...
Haze let us know what new FTP is, good luck 🙂

Sweet spot base 2 definitely starts to get more intense than SSbase 1, or you could go to the cyclocross or MTB plans for maximum torture. FWIW, I did SSbase2 last year, with a break in the middle to do the Festive 500, then moved onto the CX plan (the MTB plan wasn't available last year).

Base 2 sounds about right, think I'm ready for a bit more effort but don't want to crank it up too high just yet.

Oh Yeah SS Base 2 - Low volume is 4 hrs a week, maybe just about doable? 😉

Base 2 sounds about right, think I'm ready for a bit more effort but don't want to crank it up too high just yet.

Erm....

Have I missed something?!

Perhaps base 2 is Hardcore?

I haven't been on trainer road since thursday, due to illness, my CX training is going to pot!

Haze, it may be me by I found Sweet Spot2 quite hard and ramping to very hard at the end.

I too have been ill for a week 1 x mtb ride only this week. I'm supposed to be doing ftp test tonight but may defer to tomorrow.

Just aborted mine, felt good at the start but ending up going out far too hard in the first 8.

I have a whole load of excuses why I probably shouldn't have bothered tonight but a schoolboy error has left my lying on the floor shaking like a shitting dog for the last 15 minutes!

Think I'll leave my FTP where it is for a bit...

Cheers Kryton, despite my post directly above I'll crack on with it and see how it goes...

Just done sisters (sounds wrong) as part of the mtb plan, that was hard had to drop it to 90% 3/4 through to make sure finish. Finding my weaknesses, I can sprint no worries and can average a fairly decent power but I do like to vary, keeping a constant effort is killing me. I wouldn't do an FTP test after being ill, bit of a shock to the system and may be a disappointment...

I wouldn't do an FTP test after being ill, bit of a shock to the system and may be a disappointment...

A general question then; most plans start with an FTP test - is there anything wrong with not performing it and carrying on as usual, specifically if you were finding the previous plan pretty hard - as in struggling with the last 10% of most intervals? Or should I "test", even if the result is that it goes down...

I'm supposed to be starting "novice race" tomorrow (today actually) in prep for a January winter series but haven't shrugged off a cough...

On the basis of tonight, that's exact what I'm thinking I should have done.

I'm fairly happy where it is tbh (see post from a couple of days back) so would probably have made sense to have taken the opportunity to rest.

Instead of sat here feeling battered...

My only concern with testing when ill or recovering from illness is that the test is supposed to be a indicator of what you can do when rested or at least not fatigued and as in itself is a stressful exercise and could prolong an illness. Also pretty demoralising to have a poor test, maybe use a prior FTP result with a 5% reduction initially.
I really should not have had to reduce the watts on my 'ride' but I rarely rest enough, to easy to forget that rest is when the body repairs itself and makes us stronger..
To that end I'm not doing any riding or turbo tomorrow, first time in a while.