TrainerRoad - STW approved sessions

Hi all
Im dead happy to stumble across this thread as being a relatively new dad (2 year old), laugh at fellow TR users with one ear on sopranos, one ear on baby monitor whilst trying to keep a steady 250 watts!! Which for me is quite tough?? Have been known to do this in the garden on hot summer days just because I can't escape the house.. (which I know is very wrong)..

Anyways an interesting observation today which I just wandered if anyone else has picked up on. I was doing 20 Min FTP test as want to see if I have improved. Went out too hard and couldn't sustain !! (too used to 8 min tests) So my wattage dropped had a break within 20 mins and then went hard again but this time dropped the friction setting on My Tacx Satori from 5 to 3 (so less resistance), This adjustment meant I could go on the big ring and spin the wheel a lot quicker to get to my desired wattage, and then found it easier to sustain a certain high wattage that I couldn't when turbo was set to more resistance and in small ring?

So my question is from my observation. If the wheel is spinning faster due to less trainer resistance is it easier to maintain high wattage than if wheel was spinning slower? Mainly thinking of flywheel & inertia within trainer itself? Well next time I have another FTP test I will put this to the test?

Has anyone tried same FTP test but with friction set differently on turbo and noticed they find it easier to keep high wattage if they get wheel to spin faster? If so then is it a slight cheat to produce higher FTP?

Oh and Im not talking about virtual power? I do Have a Powertap G3 on my Tacx Satori so getting an actual power reading.

Cheers all and will keep up on this thread as its a great resource for a sado like me that would like to be out on the open roads more?
Cheers
jon

So my question is from my observation. If the wheel is spinning faster due to less trainer resistance is it easier to maintain high wattage than if wheel was spinning slower? Mainly thinking of flywheel & inertia within trainer itself? Well next time I have another FTP test I will put this to the test?

I think yes, this is true. I'm sure I read somewhere that it was something to do with the higher inertia of the wheel (and flywheel) helping through the dead spots in the pedal stroke, and that this helps reduce fatigue. I'm sure someone will be along soon with a better explanation of this though!

one ear on baby monitor

Oh and this is also me 🙂 Usually watching two baby monitors desperately hoping they stay asleep until I finish the session!

If so then is it a slight cheat to produce higher FTP?

... and for this, it is just a convenient way of producing an estimate. Don't actually use the tests that often these days as I pretty much know from sessions I do regularly and races whether my FTP needs to be tweaked up or down.

I think yes, this is true. I'm sure I read somewhere that it was something to do with the higher inertia of the wheel (and flywheel) helping through the dead spots in the pedal stroke, and that this helps reduce fatigue. I'm sure someone will be along soon with a better explanation of this though!

Yes, power is power, I think it's more down to the reduction in fatigue of having to push through the dead spots in the pedal stroke. Again I'm sure someone will be along to give a more accurate explanation soon!

Subscription resurrection, thread resurrection.

Back on the TrainerRoad thing again, oh the joy!

Count yourself lucky Chef, some of us have never been away 🙂

Yeah respect to those killing themselves over summer on it.

Nice facility that you can stop and start your subscription and retain your settings/history.

Must remember to cancel over summer, haven't used it since probably April.

Ah well, considering it a donation for their hard work...

Chef, Haze, good summers? TrainerRoad winter work paid off? What you got planned for this winter?

Managed my first bit of racing of the year last week, just a local 10 as the season comes to a close! Was trying out a new setup and was way too conservative with the pacing, but went ok.

Gone a bit mad with the custom workout creator here. Pretty much only doing custom ones now. Even the old favourites like Starr King have been tweaked so that the warm ups work better for me.

It paid off very well indeed thank you.

I had a good spring on the MTB, and a very good summer on the road. I raced both disciplines and placed much higher up than last year.

Currently in a trail running phase but the CX season is NOW, (CrossVegas tomorrow, live stream at 05:30 GMT for the men's elite), so its back to short hard efforts on the rollers again.

TrainerRoad based sessions helped me improve my FTP quite a lot, not that the equivalent training on the road wouldn't have, but the ease and convenience of it is remarkable.

Dipped my toe in circuits and identified some areas to work on over winter, racing progress was halted by a broken bike but will take the experience to work over winter.

Overall though I feeling stronger than 12 months ago, first FTP test should be interesting!

Planning to pick back up with some winter series circuits and see how it goes, there a local road race series running from May 'till July so all being well...

I was thinking about this thread the other day, and the FTP tet of 8mins vs 20mins. I've only ever done my FTP outside and full 20min efforts. I recently did longer intervals (7mins) which gave me an idea of what the 8min test would be like. I don't see how the 8min test can be accurate - i knew i only needed to suffer for 7mins and my 5min power is good so the results (for me) would be out if i did the 8min test. I could have carried on for another minute (just) but not the full 20mins at that effort.

Not looking forward to the turbo this winter.

I don't see how the 8min test can be accurate - i knew i only needed to suffer for 7mins and my 5min power is good so the results (for me) would be out if i did the 8min test. I could have carried on for another minute (just) but not the full 20mins at that effort.

... but then you only take 90% of the average for the 8 min test as an estimate of your FTP, or 95% of your 20 min power as an estimate of your FTP. And it is just an estimate of the power you could sustain for an hour.

Seeing as you race and train a lot you probably have a very good idea of the power you could sustain for an hour anyway, so you probably know if you need to tweak your FTP up or down.

Not looking forward to the turbo this winter.

It's been hard turboing in the heat, looking forward to some nice chilly evenings 🙂

Ah I didn't realise it was a lower %. 🙂

Lots of respect for turboing in the heat. I managed one turbo sess this season when it was pouring & windy but hot outside. Felt ill after it!

I completed the Intermediate Base II plan at the start of the year and supplemented with a few ad-hoc sessions as and when I felt like it; FTP went from 234w > 300w (Elite Arion Mag - resistance 1).

I started again at the beginning of this month (first sessions since April) and I'm pleased, not to mention a little surprised, that in terms of FTP I managed to pick up where I left off. Even felt good enough to bump my FTP by another 5w then completed Angels, which I'd wussed out on 2/3 of the way through in April 😛

I'm doing 2-3 days a week on the rollers, alternating my days with a C25K plan (my God, running is hard work) and the plan is to have a longer Z2 ride outdoors at the weekend. Sessions are on an empty stomach before work, so I've been looking for fairly intense workouts around 45 mins in duration. This is the selection so far:-

Apple orchard +3
Lolita
Ride Fit Master Blaster
Old Rag
Vandever
Sleeping Beauty

I Keep looking at Sufferfest Revolver because it fits my time & intensity criteria [i]and[/i] I seem to manage sprint/rest intervals better than I do a long grind...but I have to admit, it looks like a beast! Anyone done Revolver; how did you find it?

Speaking of a long grind, I really ought to do a 20 min test some time soon...

Anyhow, I'm pleased to be starting my TR sessions so early in the 'winter'...after seeing the improvement in FTP (not to mention an associated 5kg post-Xmas weight loss) I was kicking myself that I didn't start earlier last year.

I Keep looking at Sufferfest Revolver because it fits my time & intensity criteria and I seem to manage sprint/rest intervals better than I do a long grind...but I have to admit, it looks like a beast! Anyone done Revolver; how did you find it?

Revolver's great for a short, hard workout, takes about 45min from start to finish. No real secret to it - warm up, then minute on/minute off. 16 times. Cool down.

Fun 😈

Hoping to squeeze in my first session soon, have a couple of work projects taking up my spare time so need to shift those first.

Taken delivery of a nice new 52T for the winter bike, will be interesting to see how/if that affects my FTP (current test were on a 50).

May have a steady spin on Scylla or Carson or something first before launching right into a 20 minute test.

Nice work!

Revolver, along with Downward Spiral, are the two sessions that are mentally easiest I think. Both are short intervals, (or decreasing in time), and as such I seem to be able to cope with them.

Angles on the other hand, when done at FTP is an absolute killer session.

I returned to the rollers yesterday for the first time since March, ooh boy was that not pretty. Managed 50 minutes of Hell Hath No Fury then climbed off, more from mental exhaustion than physical. FTP setting was reduced as well.

There are easier ways to train, but none so effective.

I pretty much swear by Sufferfest and TrainerRoad. Great for fitting in a session whether your time constrained or the weather is just too bad.
Agree that Revolver and downward spiral are pretty straight forward and you get a bit of a breather between efforts. If you've done your ftp then you should find it really tough but still get through it. That's the great thing about it that it takes you to the limit. I guess it depends how fresh you are too as I did Angels last week and really cracked on the last effort and just crawled to the end. I had done ISLAGIATT the day before to FTP so I was a bit done in.

Angels is my favourite, though - love that last climb up Alpe D'Huez, attack after attack after attack 🙂

On week 5 of sweet spot 1, this is the first time I have done any proper training, going well I think.

I also need a bigger top gear, 52 ring, 25mm tyre, bodge a mtb 11t onto the cassette? Not really sure yet.

Hmmm going to have to start up again eventually, first road season this year started off well enough, I stopped using the turbo when it started getting hot and my power output probably suffered for it. My better results were def on easier circuits but my last two races I've been spat out the back. Time for a rest then start working again in mid October maybe. Think I started to early with the higher output stuff but dunno...

20 minute FTP test tonight to create a baseline for the forthcoming winter madness.

Using virtual power now as my PowerTap has blown it guts, so as long as TR is consistent then it should be fine as I rarely used power data on outside rides.

Slightly depressing number compared to my June peak, (done on a Monark scientific test bike), but it'll give me something to improve upon.

Just completed Tioga. I've earned & G&T tonight, just the one though.

I wish I done the intermediate base workouts last year, not withstanding the workouts, the instructions regard cadence, position and breathing are helping me massively - I seem to have found a position on the bars in which I can just ride [i]en passe [/i] at just below FTP/30kmph for ages.

I suffered in Tioga, I generally like the drills but they can make life more difficult on a bad day.

The workouts suggest that the aero position makes it more difficult to work in the sweet spot range, but I actually find it easier on the drops. Presumably there is something to learn about the bike setup from that but I don't really understand it, there is already a significant seat-to-bar drop.

It's officially winter, I've reactivated Trainerroad...

Has anyone tried the "Elements of Style" Sufferfest video?

I'm back tonight too.

11 months of near complete inactivity has seen me making a very slow and careful reintroduction to the turbo tonight with a twenty minute sweet spot workout. Gonna stick with that for a few sessions before building up again. After a couple of timed rides on a local loop I reckon i'm anywhere between 20-30% down on my fitness from last year.

Has anyone tried the "Elements of Style" Sufferfest video?

Yeah it's quite good for what it is, which is essentially making a G1 session on the rollers/turbo feel slightly more interesting than it is.

Nice footage and well shot, the Carlton Kirby commentary is a Marmite thing to be honest.

The workouts suggest that the aero position makes it more difficult to work in the sweet spot range, but I actually find it easier on the drops

Thats an interesting point. I can get through an hour easily on the drops, and my wattage visibly goes up a few watts in that position (as seen by the green bar increasing)so I guess I'm recruiting a different alternate muscle group into the mix, but I've found that my most sustainable mental / physical position is drumming it out low in an aero position but with my hands holding the hoods above the levers and arms draped across/parallel to the top of the bars like this:

[img] [/img]

Anyone know why? Just physiology maybe?

Had a warm up on Angels last week, not going all out just getting back into the swing of things.

Jumped into a 20 minute test tonight and got a 10% increase on my FTP at near enough an identical LTHR.

Putting some of that down to replacing the 50T with a 52T, gonna be a tough winter...

Finished the 6 week block today, as a treat I rode in the morning which kind of made it easy! Hoping for a 5% FTP gain when I test on Tuesday, no idea if I can do it but will try.

I have decided that my own aero position quirk is due to the hoods just being too far away and I am using tension to hold my body. I plan to use the bar tops when I don't need to shift as although it looks less comfy it is closer to a mtb position.

Well the answer is "no, I can't". The first 8 minutes was more or less on track, in the 2nd effort I just couldn't move the gear or spin the next gear down. Ended up with a gain of 2.4%. I hindsight I feel that I should have stuck to my gear and turned off the video to give 100% focus.

I've seen that sweet spot 2 has rather a lot more workouts at or over 100% ftp so maybe its for the best!

Not taking things to seriously but am using Global Cycling Network Intense 20 minute workout - does this look reasonable to maintain fitness over winter and build up some strength

[url=

Scylla tonight, unders and overs and
first session at my new FTP.

Going to be a tough winter!

Galena here. 3x20 sweetspot passed pretty quickly with two episodes of Breaking Bad.

Might check that one out, I like the sweet spot stuff when I'm not up for making myself sick.

It is quite a nice session. Usually doesn't feel that hard but is a fair chunk of TSS (about 110 I think).

What sessions are you all going to be treating yourselves to this winter? Just having a think about it here. May go the coaching route as I'm likely to be even more time crunched 😐

aka - are you sure you're not a bit tired, obviously its very subjective but that plan shouldn't be so hard?

I'm on the last workout on that myself tomorrow before Oktoberest in Bristol Saturday. Then Intermediate Base 2 starts Tuesday with an 8 min test of course. I'm feeling really good though, and am feeling like I may just smash that test. *fingers crossed*.

FWIW I've really enjoyed the type of workouts and instructions from IB 1 - its genuinly helped my climbing, and I've found I really enjoy extended interval session at or just below FTP on the turbo or on the bike during club runs.

2 sets of 3 * 4 minutes off 2, with 10 minutes bewteen sets.

New lowered FTP after my 20 minute test and it felt too easy to be honest, so I'll bash out a Sufferfest this weekend to really see whether its correct or not.

Watched the cyclocross from the weekend

Then Intermediate Base 2 starts Tuesday

Some nice sessions in IB2. Though to finish with Powell is evil 🙂

Chef, thanks for the video, shall check that out.

Not tiredness really, I had the 3 days rest and it was just another day. It's true that the sweet spot 1 is not that hard, maybe that's the thing - there are no workouts in it similar to 8 minutes at 110%.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/1157342-8-Minute-Test

I nailed the warmup and felt fine going into it. My sprint finish to the 2nd 8 minutes set a 2 min PR which sort of suggests more screw up than fitness failure.

I will press on with sweet spot 2 and might gift myself a few more points if it seems easier than the description. After that the mtb training plan (probably low volume to allow more real riding) which will carry me through to February.

Ended up with a gain of 2.4%.

aka, TBH after a month of work that's a pretty good gain. Notice you put a bit of a surge in at the end of the first 8 mins. May find that can blow the legs for the second 8 mins. Reckon it's best to keep it steady in the first 8 mins and save it for the second 8 mins. Also I'd have an easy day or two before testing, keep the legs spinning, and not have a couple of days off.

Also the test is just to give you an approximation of hour power. If you think the result is too low then tweak it up, too high then tweak it down. You should have an idea if riding for an hour at that power is achievable or not.

Does anyone know if a tomtom bluetooth speed/cadence sensor will work with trainer road?

I have it on my hard tail which i use with my TomTom Multisports watch and Polar H7 and this looks quality.

TrainerRoad supports Bluetooth Smart, which a quick Google for TomTom Multisports seems to indicate that it uses that protocol, so all being well it should work.

Worth downloading and trying out, but you'll need a way for the your sensors to talk to your laptop, like a Bluetooth Smart dongle or USB stick.

Did anyone here get on the iOS trial?

Thanks for your comments MB, no doubt you are right that it is best to work out your own best process for testing rather than blindly follow the instructions as I have tended to.

I've never had an iPhone and I was quite surprised to see TRs comments on a DC rainmaker article that 90% of mobile traffic to their site is iOS, hence the low priority for android. How would you make use of it anyway - take it out on a ride with you?

Maybe Ebbets isn't quite the 8hr solo warm up I thought it was. 16 x 500w (approx) sprints FFS!

Kryton57, what did you think of Tioga?

15 * 500w, sounds like Sufferfest's Revolver.

I quite enjoyed Tioga. Hard but enjoyable. But then again lengthy consistent intervals around FTP & over unders are my strength.

Akak, have you started Sweetspot Base 2 yet?

Torn between this and Intermediate Build 1...

Some hideous looking sprinty intervals in intermediate build 1. Junction looks horrendous!

Just signed up, ANT dongle installed and TT bike mounted on the TT. FTP test later this evening. Came fifth in our [url= http://www.strava.com/activities/206639258 ]Club Championships[/url] on Sunday in a breakaway with the the 2nd cats, so still recovering! Contemplating Advanced Competitor Low Volume to complement the 100 miles/week commuting and prepare for the E12/3 Winter Series. Anybody doing high volume and commuting?

Some hideous looking sprinty intervals in intermediate build 1. Junction looks horrendous!

Yeah not quite sure if I need to do a bit more on the trainer before jumping into it, sweet spot stuff could be a good lead in?

Need to shift this cold first so hoping to knuckle down next week...

Revolver tonight, just adding some finishing touches to the form before my first national CX race of the year on Sat and Sun.

Bit of a contrast, I did a nice and steady hour on Carson. Good luck for the weekend:-)

Yes I started the sweet spot 2 last week as planned, bit of an odd first week with the ftp test, the next workout I had abdominal cramps before and during and then I broke a spoke on the Saturday.

I don't claim any expertise - the TR flowchart indicates I should do both plans so I am!

I also experimented with making a playlist out of midweek mini movies: here is last weeks (26 minutes):

I think it draws a bit too much attention, also I got a bit of sensory confusion from the POV shots. I guess more scenic and slow paced stuff would work better.

Hmm, noticed you mentioned 1 was a bit easy, I'm in fairly good condition at the moment (for me) so think I'll jump straight into 2 to bridge to one of build plans.

anyone use rollers & TR?
I have just got some and was trying switch from turbo to rollers, but am really struggling?
I know rollers are trickier but can ride them ok now with 2 hands and looking forward fine, but cannot hit keys on laptop, watch sopranos & drink whilst on rollers (which was easy on turbo) so..
should i just stick to TR on turbo and forget rollers
cheers jon

It takes practice, but you'll learn. I do all my sessions on rollers.

Although I've never needed to touch the laptop during a session.

Haze, I'd recommend using the amount of time you have until your first 2015 event rather than current fitness level to decide between 1 and 2. Many times, if you have a long gap until you start racing again next year, dialing things down for a few weeks and starting with 1 and then moving to 2 is a great way to just maximize your base and really set you up for some good fitness as you move forward.

Regarding rollers, what model are you using Jonno101? Some can be more difficult than others. Especially as you get into more high-intensity work, some models are just plain sketchy to put down big watts on, but some are great, like Inside Ride for example.

-Trevor from TrainerRoad

Cheers Trevor, there's a winter series that I dipped my toe in last year at the end of Jan. Would like to do those again to see how/if I've improved since.

Sweet spot bases 1 & 2 would take me up to that point, no plans beyond that yet but guessing I'd have until April to build.

Incidentally today they have split the sweet spot plans down into low, medium and high volumes.

Yes that little change caught me off guard just before going to do my workout! It isn't just additional plans but a whole mixup. I'll stick with low but I won't feel as good about it as when it was called intermediate 🙂

I'm not sure about the 30 minute active recovery workout on wednesdays, it seems a bit of a faff but I will give it a go.

I'm starting with Low 1 I think, then move up to 2.

Will probably put the 30 minute recovery on the Wedsnesday morning to keep the night free. It might even start to encourage me to start going to bed earlier...

Urgh. Just did my first TrainerRoad session since May - dived straight in with an 8 minute test to see how racing XC and commuting over the summer has helped my fitness. Turns out, not a lot - FTP is down >10% from 215 to 192. I thought I was going to die during the second 8 min block. I guess I've been doing a bit too much pootling to work and back (plus a week in Italy eating pizza every day probably hasn't helped).

Oh well, Sweet Spot Base 1 starts tomorrow, then Sweet Spot 2 then the MTB plan. That worked well for me last winter so I may as well repeat it this year. Only this time I'll be combining turbo work with commuting by bike most days. Hopefully I can stay "on plan", not eat too much to compensate (need to lose about 4kg) and not annoy my boyfriend too much with how long I'm spending on a bike...!

I broke Trainerroad today. I was doing Bays as a prelude to sweet spot base 2 and therefore Tuesday's 8 min test, and the instructions said "go for it" during the sprint intervals, so I did. It's seems - at my settings anyway - that >610watts puts it into "workout paused" which is a bit irritating.

I managed to control myself and keep the rest circa 590w which allowed the interval to continue.

That's a bit weird - worth contacting the TR team and seeing if it's sortable?

610watts puts it into "workout paused" which is a bit irritating.

I've had an interesting few weeks since coming back to TR at the start of Sept. I completed 6-7 workouts over 3 weeks at my old FTP and felt good enough to bump my FTP by another 5 points...then failed to complete the following at FTP:

Old Rag+1
Needham
Old Rag

I'm putting it down to the mild cold that I had. Other than a bit of discomfort from a sore throat and the inconvenience of a snotty nose I felt OK, so It was quite an eye opener to experience such a loss of power...I could tell as soon as I hit a significant interval that I didn't have it in me.

The cold has now been banished and I've completed a few sessions at FTP without issue, so thought I should do an FTP test...

My last FTP test was the 8 minute workout and that was back at the tail end of Jan; result was 263w which I've since increased to 305w (over 40-ish workouts) by bumping it 5w at a time, as and when it felt right.

Result of the 20 minute test from the weekend? 337w! I must admit, I'm slightly afeared of my next session 😯

I don't think a 10% increase is right for me, certainly not based on the feel of the last few sessions (ignoring the illness) but I'll give it a shot and see how it works out. I'll have a couple of weeks of Sweet Spot sessions I think, workouts that I'm familiar with and try to build some confidence at the new FTP before getting too adventurous.

that >610watts puts it into "workout paused" which is a bit irritating.

I sometimes had signal dropout cause the workout to pause, dunno if it was low battery, interference or some other connection issue but it has happened very infrequently and at no particular point in a workout so it might be related to hitting any particular point or power output.

Anyone know if they are getting closer with the iphone app release? I'm using motivo at the moment as they have an app but would rather use trainer-road.

I could use a laptop but it'd be pretty awkward where I have my turbo setup.

Anyone know if they are getting closer with the iphone app release? I'm using motivo at the moment as they have an app but would rather use trainer-road.

page[/url] has the following:

[i]"iOS update! We're just squashing bugs at the moment and will submit to the app store in the next few weeks.

At launch it will be iPhone only (iPad is next). It will natively support Bluetooth Smart and it will support ANT+ via a Wahoo Fitness Dongle.

There are two features that we haven't built yet that we were going to cut for first launch. This is so we can get the app out faster and get feedback.

Those two features are Horizontal Display and Video Support.

We figure that implementing these could add 2-3 weeks of total dev time. We think that would push us too far into the winter training season and you've all waited long enough!

I wanted to telegraph this move to everyone so that 1) Expectations are set and 2) You don't "1 star" us in the app store because of a missing feature.

We'll probably start working on these features after we submit the app store. App store approval can take 1-2 weeks.

What does everyone think? Right now we want to "get the darn thing out" then start to roll in more features."[/i]

ah cool, I'd signed up to the iOS update email which has been silent but this looks promising.

... so it might be related to hitting any particular point or power output.

That should of read ... so it might not be related ...

I understood that. I've no issues with the dongle, before of after. 2 intervals at >610 watts had the same result? It could have been my cadence at the time was 130 which I've exceeded before. It may be that the gauge had gone very red and was off the chart?

I've never had that problem with high power sprints. You have a real power meter don't you? Try it with a garmin and see what happens?

@trevorderuise
Im using Elite Arion Mag, so has 3 resistance levels. Have just completed my 1st full hour TR session which is a big improvement on before, but cant do out of saddle High watt stuff yet, even if this is possible>>?
Cheers

You have a real power meter don't you?

No, thats virtual power. Seated too that was, i iz that awsumz...

New one for me today, did [url= http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/3169-Table ]Table[/url]. Quite nice, bit like a 25 mile TT training effort on a rolling course. Had a few crap sessions recently, mostly due to being up a lot in the night with the kids and feeling wrecked, so it was good to complete a session like that feeling comfortable. A pretty good one for getting an idea if your FTP setting is a reasonable estimation of your hour power too.

Dammit. A messy 8 minute test and only a 1 watt increase in FTP. One of those days I guess.

Sigh...

First 45 minutes of The Hunted tonight, super busted legs after the double CX weekend.

Started sweet spot base 1 today (low volume).

Little bit of a disjointed warm up with messing around with various pairs of headphones, but the 8 minute test gave me an extra 6 watts on my FTP so fairly consistent with the 20 minute I did a couple of weeks back.

Next one Thursday....