TrainerRoad - STW approved sessions

FTP test didn't go well,last test in Jan was 367 now 316. Could probably have pushed harder, I do find with a nine speed cassette I can't get the perfect cadence/resistance combo. I also think I'm so used to short jabs and micro recovery that 8minutes is pretty daunting. On the first interval I was happily sitting just above the predicted power for my original ftp for two minutes and then my legs crashed 😳

Also sadly think the drop is reasonable as done no proper structured training this year.

Will probably run sessions at 105% which I assume, unless tr does something funny, gives me a ftp of 330 and see how I go.

ferrals, are you actually any slower than you were in Jan last year? Riding at 110% threshold for 2x8 mins on a turbo is a very artificial exercise. Do a few 15 min interval steady state sessions for a couple of weeks and you'll probably find next time you test it'll have gone up quite a bit. You won't be any quicker in the real world but you'll test better.

I've not done any proper turbo intervals since around March of this year. I expect if I were to test it'd go much the same way as yours.

I'll likely start doing a bit of turbo soon as there are some specific sessions I want to do over winter, but going to start low and build up gradually 🙂

367 is a hell of a lot of power, unless you're huge. What do you weigh?

ferrals weighs about as much as my 5 year old son 😆

Wow! 376 is a bit tasty! Hopefully regaining will be easier 😉

I've had two tests where I've paced ambitiously and died a horrible death! Not fun. Guess the bonus of the 8 minute test is a chance for redemption!

I was thinking about the TSS thing and actually, the fact I've seen a rise in FTP means that a lower weekly TSS in Sweetspot Base shouldn't actually be entirely that much less work?
Ie 400 TSS at the new ftp would actually have been 416 TSS calculated on the older, lower ftp.

Took a month off TR to try and shift a semi-permanent cold (3 months and counting). Still have a cold and my FTP has dropped by 30w. 🙁

Finding almost all sessions really hard at the moment.

ferrals, are you actually any slower than you were in Jan last year?

A bit, top end wise probably not, but endurance is lacking, what with the baby my longest ride this year has been about 2.5hrs so in races I'm startign to fade after 40 minutes.

I agree with you on the artificiality of it though, but it does ring true with my feelings on my current fitness.

ianpv - Member

367 is a hell of a lot of power, unless you're huge. What do you weigh?

Should have said this is TR virtual power, I've never believed the actual numbers, just look at the changes. I weigh about 9 stone, and I'm not that fast so the numbers are way out!

crosshair - Member

Wow! 376 is a bit tasty!

see above - not real power... I wish it was! I'd be going to the national trophy on the weekend not wondering if I can break back into the top ten of our egionsal league 😆

Riding at 110% threshold for 2x8 mins on a turbo is a very artificial exercise. Do a few 15 min interval steady state sessions for a couple of weeks and you'll probably find next time you test it'll have gone up quite a bit. You won't be any quicker in the real world but you'll test better.

MrBlobby- not wanting to reignite the whole indoor outdoor thing but I really do think it depends on your event and your Turbo. I had no trouble on my solo session at Hillingdon a few weeks ago replicating an interval session I'd been doing on Trainerroad- the cadence, inertia and position were all very transferable, it felt very similar and my body was able to go "ah, I remember these!" and do the same effort- albeit at slightly less consistent wattage but close enough over the course of the interval.

What didn't work was doing 8 weeks of 95-110rpm intervals in a forward leaning, pseudo-aero position an then trying to translate that into CX fitness at 75rpm on horrendously draggy grass!

So whilst I agree that more specificity is better- I don't think intervals are necessarily unspecific 🙂

MrBlobby- not wanting to reignite the whole indoor outdoor

[img] [/img]

😉

In this case I was mostly responding in the context of ferrals original post, being mostly based around CX racing.

see above - not real power... I wish it was! I'd be going to the national trophy on the weekend not wondering if I can break back into the top ten of our egionsal league

6.4W/kg would be more pro tour than national trophy! But as you say though the units are irrelevant if consistent. That said, when I went from virtual power on my kurt kinetic to real powertap power my FTP went up - easiest 10W improvement I ever made 🙂

the units are irrelevant if consistent

Thats my one concern: given most people seem to think the virtual power matches reasoanbly well with real power, I wonder if my turbo isnt quite working right, in which case it might be that the curve of the actual turbo and the one they have may be differnet and so the relative efforts will be wrong. To be honest even that is only an issue for over-under type efforts.

I'd like a real power meter one day but its well down the list of items to spend money on.. and they would need to drop significantly in price before I was convinced it was a good investment

Velotech are doing £200 off Rotor InPower at the moment.

Velotech are doing £200 off Rotor InPower at the moment.

Still a chunk of money even if you already have a Rotor chainset!

TR is just making me tired and hungry. Into week 3 of Sweet Spot Base. I struggle mentally with sweet spot intervals - my brain seems to be able to cope better with intervals where you batter yourself as it's easier to forget about the time left or what the next interval is, it's just flat out.

I don't now what you're all moaning about. I'm on 15s sprint on, 2 mins off x 4 hours, Z4 TT efforts for 2 hours and Z2 for 2 hours a week.

Its ok though I get Tuesdays off...

Kryton57 - Member
I don't now what you're all moaning about. I'm on 15s sprint on, 2 mins off x 4 hours, Z4 TT efforts for 2 hours and Z2 for 2 hours a week.

Its ok though I get Tuesdays off...

That sounds properly tedious 🙂

Have found that focusing on the pedal and form drills help during the longer intervals, also trying to keep the power as accurate as possible helps pass the time...no erg mode here.

Also bought a decent fan last week, highly recommended if you’re not already using one. I used to struggle with anything over an hour but I’m already noticing how much the better things are with it and pushing on to 90 minute sessions quite comfortably.

15s sprint on, 2 mins off x 4 hours

A four hour session of 15s / 2 min sprints?!

Is this the Torq stuff Kryton?

Not all at once!

But yes. I may have lied about some thing's to keep my training secret but the general gist is about right.

Brutal. I find I don't have the mental capacity for more than about 1 hour 30 on a trainer in one go. Sweamrs has in the past done 2+ hours and I can't fathom it.

Midway through SweetSpot base pt 2 currently and remembering just how unpleasant VO2 work can be.

I did 2:50 on Zwift the other day. I couldn't do it as a workout, luckily it was a very interactive group ride.

I think the KISS 100 took me 3hrs the other year. My weekly Pretzel rides were around 2.5 I think too.

Longest TR session was 2hrs plus a bit of trainer warmup time beforehand but I also had Zwift running on the big TV and Danny Howard's Dance Anthems on iplayer radio 😆

I think I prefer indoor training now. Since I've gotten a little bit quicker, you have to go so bloody far outside and that exposes you to more and more inconsistencies for holding the right power.

I'm clinging to the hope that for 60minute races, I don't really need the deep aerobic fitness that can only be cultivated by multiple hour rides anyway. Some of Coach Chads work-arounds are actually pretty clever, like the Vo2 max intervals with 30minutes Z2 tacked on the end. Hardest Z2 I ever did! Even the last lap of a 4hr Brass Monkeys never felt that hard.

On TR for longer rides just put together a ride with blocks at different power levels, all around z2 and z3 ([url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/4536358-kennedy-peak-mod- ]example[/url]). Helps the time pass.

I'm clinging to the hope that for 60minute races, I don't really need the deep aerobic fitness that can only be cultivated by multiple hour rides anyway

That was my hope this cx season too as time crunched earlier in the year. I'm massively feeling the lack of long rides now. Admittedly I've not done much properly structured training this year, but I did quite a lot of 1.5 - 2hr hard rides and xc races thinking it would be enough for cx durations but I'm flagging by 40mins in.

Agree about liking indoor training, seems like when time is at a premium you get a better beasting on the turbo

I've found it amazing how slowly time can pass 😆 I sometimes put the towel over my phone and aim for a landmark on Zwift instead. Gutting when you get there, uncover the towel and still have 3 minutes left 😀

Other tactics include slow counting down in my head so the interval ends before I've reached zero, watching YouTube clips 1 minute longer than the work effort, playing 'interval buster' tracks on my iTunes and dissecting the work efforts into Hillingdon lap times! The imaginary '3 laps to go' board is always more motivating than thinking 'last 8 minutes!' 🙂

Any effort of any power now is in the bag with 40 seconds to go. Once that clock hits 0.39, my power generally increases right to the end. It used to be 20 🙂

Bays for me this morning. Up early and done by just gone 7. Good workout, the intermittent sprints keep the endurnace side of things interesting. Really enjoying being back on the turbo, looking at the weatehr forecast I'll be turboing all weekend. Planning on either Dade+2 or Sassafras tomorrow and then Bondcliff on Sunday. By which point I'll have almost done week one of the cx plan compressed into Thurs - Sun (misisng whichever session I don't do).

Happily plugging along and enjoying the time saving nature of turboing at the moment. Kind of wish I'd done more turbo stuff earlier in the season.

What the consensus with planning a training year: next year I'm naively hoping I'll have a bit more time and less stress so am planning on properly structuring my year around the cx season (Sept - Decemeber). Do you aim to finish the speciality phase prior to the first race of the season or be half way through or something? I sort of think finishing speciality prior to the first race would lead to peaking too soon.

Interested in this also, I currently have three 'A' events which are based start, middle and end of season - although quite loose at the moment since dates aren't officially out for two of them but I've used the weekends that correspond to last year's calendar.

My build period ends shortly before my first event as set out by Training Peaks ATP, all my TrainerRoad plans are set out backwards from this period but there's no room to fit Specialty.

The TR road race plan looks like a load of VO2 stuff from a quick scan, thinking I may just keep following the Training Peaks limiters since I'd generally be doing VO2 and training bashes in this period anyway.

Hey Ferrals and Haze!

There are a few options when it comes to extending a season, I'll go ahead and outline the possible options and when each option is the best choice.

Extending your Peak:
This method allows you to drag out your peak for a maximum of 8 weeks. To do this, you will simply repeat Specialty Weeks 7 and 8 upon completion of your Specialty Phase. This works well for CX because you maintain a relatively stable level of fitness for nearly the whole season. You essentially will work backwards from your last race of the season to see when you should start. The progression would look like this:

Sweet Spot Base (12 weeks)
Build (8 Weeks)
Specialty (8 Weeks)
Peak extension (8 Weeks)
Final race of the season

Another option is what we call a Re-Build. This is best for seasons where you want to continue to build fitness after your first specialty, and when your races are spaced apart adequately. This method has you return to Build phase after completing your first Specialty. The progression would look like this:

Sweet Spot Base (12 Weeks)
Build(8 Weeks)
Specialty (8 Weeks)
Build(8 Weeks)
Specialty (8 Weeks)

This method allows you to have two separate "peaks", with the second peak being at a higher level of performance. Haze, looking at your season it looks like you are unlikely to be able to hold peak for your entire season. Without knowing the spacing of your events, it is hard for me to say the best route through, however keep in mind that you can still race extremely competitively after completing Build, especially in the early season.

I hope that gives you guys some helpful guidance, happy training!

Peaks will be early April, late June and possibly late August...fully expecting to drop off a little I n between (but remain competitive, B races and train through C etc).

Cheers for the reply Bryce, will see how I can work things in when the dates firm up

4 weeks in now. Sweet spot base intervals now a lot less unpleasant than they were last week so must be getting fitter (coming from a very low base though!) Amazed I've managed to be fairly consistent and actually last 4 weeks. Another 2 weeks of this plan to go and then I guess another FTP test. Not sure I'm looking forward to that!

Well done Simtron! Just think how pleased you'll be when you get a better score though...

Started off on SS base when my collarbone was recovering, moved to trad base, but outside - so broadly following the TR plan but using HR instead of power and riding as much as possible off road as 6 months off has not done much for my skills!

Retested 3 times since July though and good news is that fitness seems to be returning nicely.

Good work John. Please try not to break yourself again 🙂

Thanks Bryce. Useful information!

John L, using HR to replicate TR is my approach when i can get outside too. Works well I find

Cx plan, would normally be outside on w/e but ill and it's raining so did the prescribed workout of Tecumseh. Enjoy workout like this but struggled so probably am properly ill, feel wrecked now too. Nicer day tomorrow so will just do a easy outside spin I think

Newbie to TrainerRoad here, training for a few XC marathons next year and currently quite unfit.. starting with sweet spot base. Would it be recommended to use my MTB that I will actually be racing on my smart turbo or use my road bike? Turbo work is my only option for winter training as where i live I would need ice tyres and it's a bit too cold out for most of the winter.

I don't think it makes a difference what bike you use to turbo on. After all, many MTB riders train a lot on road bikes - if you're not using yours during the winter I'd set it up on the turbo and leave it. Means less faff in setting up each time.

Hey Eugeo81!

My name is Bryce Lewis and I work for TrainerRoad 🙂

Since you won't be able to ride your MTB outdoors during the winter, I would definitely recommend setting your MTB up on the trainer. We are talking marginal gains here, but by doing all of your training on your race bike, it ensures that you build up your muscles specifically for that fit. Your road bike and MTB likely have slightly different angles, seat height, bar drop etc. so if you were to train on your road bike, you lose out on some specific advantages that you gain by training on the MTB.

Cheers,
Bryce

I find the turbo is so different to outdoors riding that I doubt using the same bike would yield any tangible benefits for me - although I guess if it's laid up for a cold winter then there's no reason not to stick it on there.

I use a time trial bike on my turbo and find holding position on the aero bars to be hugely uncomfortable, like intolerable for over a minute or two. Outside on an actual test it is fine [well it's never comfy but it's never even an issue on a ten]. OTOH some testers train their position on the turbo no bother so I guess we're all different.

I finished the meaty part of SSB1 about ten days ago and got my PB Crit result the following Saturday. After a xmas break, I plan on starting SSB2 on Tuesday with an ftp test of course!
However, I figured I could squeeze one in today and then if I messed it up, have another crack on Tuesday.

Well despite my reservations, SSB1 gave me a good lift! Up from 324 to 336! Very pleased with that and excited about pushing onwards again now.

I know HR is flakey at the best of times but interestingly, my HR maxed out at 187 last test. This time, I was at 191 with ten minutes to go but held it until the end.
So perhaps my hunch was right and my ftp hadn’t moved far- I just went harder today??

Anyway, thanks Coach Chad- top bombing!

Hey Crosshair!

This is the reason we warn against taking Heart Rate too seriously because it can cause a bit of unease and second guessing. A heart rate difference of 4 bpm is not anything to be concerned about and could easily be thrown off by caffeine consumption, time of day, hydration level or many other factors.

The most likely contributing factor was your level of freshness during the test. If you were more fresh during the first test, this can alter your heart rate's response significantly.

So in other words, congrats on your new hard-earned FTP 🙂

Back on the sweet spot base mid vol. started last tues quite pleased to see my ftp not massively different to last year despite much less training. Mount field today, enjoy that workout, easy to complete but leaves the legs feeling like they've done something,

Bryce Lewis - I use elite volate mag force elastomer gel with virtual power (level 4) - I'm sure the power curve is way way off, it's giving me an ftp of 332, ftp/kg of 5.56. As I'm a mid pack racer that can't be even remotely close. Any ideas?

Wow! I bet you hope it isn’t wrong

Four weeks into SSB high volume here, I was worried I couldn’t cope with that amount of training stress but hanging in there so far. I’m hoping it’s not because I didn’t push hard enough in my first FTP test

@Brycelewis- thanks! I think you are spot on- a good argument for having the hr data out of sight perhaps.

@Ferrals- Whatever is wrong (if indeed it is) I’d leave it until SSB2, otherwise you’ll need to retest your ftp 😆

I did my workout outdoors today and regretted it. Stupid traffic lights, cars, traffic calming and junctions made 3x12 @ Threshold pretty tough to fit in. Got close enough albeit with slightly longer recovery’s.

I’m weighing up my options for Build at the moment. I got great results with Sustained Power Build last time but tempted by short power this time. If nothing else, it will illustrate the difference to me personally.
I may have a long hard look at my limiters nearer the time...

@jonnyboi- crumbs! Big respect here for that. Mid volume is definitely the tops for me and most weeks I’m eyeing up the ‘Skip’ button on Petit or whichever Wednesday Z2 is scheduled 😆

Biggest problem is finding clean bib shorts every day 😉

I did my workout outdoors today and regretted it. Stupid traffic lights, cars, traffic calming and junctions made 3x12 @ Threshold pretty tough to fit in. Got close enough albeit with slightly longer recovery’s.

Was some good work there CH. I reckon hitting an interval target outdoors is tougher than indoors as you're constantly going over and under with changes of gradient, wind, traffic, etc. Having to cope with a range of cadence and all the little accelerations and decelerations. Although conversely some people seem to find it easier.

Biggest problem is finding clean bib shorts every day

Try doing it outdoors. Bib shorts, longs or warmers over the top, base layer, jersey, gilet, socks, cap, gloves, overshoes... every day! And then there's the bike... 😕

I guess for outright training stress- a +/- 20w ERG session would be better. I’d have got my 36mins of Threshold and not an ounce more fatigue than needed.

Whereas 240 and 470 are not what I was intending to see during the work efforts despite my average being pretty much within 5watts at the end.

Arguable either way I suppose. Indoors more mentally taxing but ‘better’ stress Vs ripping along outdoors being more realistic and FUN but also less efficient.

Indoors ticks more boxes for me most of the time but I have to keep my eye in 😉

Yes, likely it's a balance. Done winters with way too much turbo in the past (due to small kids, job) thinking I'm going well, good numbers etc. Then go ride outdoors and really struggle to get near those numbers due to all the variation. Though everyone seems to cope with this differently. For me outdoors is "better" stress as I'm training with all the variation that I need to be able to cope with, more specificity I suppose. But then it's not so easy outdoors to safely do those sessions where you finish lying on the floor in a pool of your own sweat and drool 🙂

Yes- I wouldn’t fancy much more duration or intensity than today down the A4- let alone a TT hey? 😆

Despite the fact I can feel the riding position is a little different, I don’t seem to have a problem transferring my indoor numbers outside. Or the other way around really. (That’s with the same PM)

My hunch is that I actually perform slightly better indoors but the greater motivation of racing or being outdoors helps me hit the same numbers.

The SNAP must be a good match inertia wise for the flat riding i’m targeting- although in ERG mode, I’m not sure the differences are as pronounced anyhow.

Have any if you guys tried the new TR ramp test for FTP? I had a go - first calculation put my FTP quite a lot higher than I believed. They then tweaked the algorithm which out it bang on!

No- looks interesting though! What percentage of FTP did you reach Gray?

Erm, about 133%. Word is that they're doing the calculation based on best 1 minute and best 5 minute power in the test, but I don't really get how that can be much different from being simply based on how high you get. Assuming the test is properly executed, anyway.

I got a Neo yesterday BTW. My Vortex was getting too annoying. So far I like it.

Wow! I bet you hope it isn’t wrong

Haha no I hope it is wrong because otherwise my belief I'm a pretty good cx bike handler is way way out 😆

I've mentioned it here before and I know that as it's just virtual power it's just arbitrary numbers and so long as they are consistent from a training point of view it's fine, however it would be nice to have a better idea of real ftp for willy waving purposes 😆

I half wondered if it was my turbo being a bit damaged or something but when googling I saw a different post from a few years ago who had the same issue (think they said they could consistently spin at 500w for ages according to virtual power 😯 ) and reckoned the power curve for the trainer was wrong. They ended up using a different trainer curve which they felt was more realistic. Hopefully Bryce can chip in, otherwise I'll email their support when I get a chance.

Have any if you guys tried the new TR ramp test for FTP? I had a go - first calculation put my FTP quite a lot higher than I believed. They then tweaked the algorithm which out it bang on!

Interesting, although I’m loathe to move away from a 20min test as at least I get a consistent reference point

Hey @ferrals!

Regarding the power curve for your trainer, with Mag trainers especially the curves can be shifted quite significantly in the production models of the trainer. The magnetic actuator can also wear, producing less resistance than it did when it came out of the factory. It sounds like you already have an understanding of VirtualPower consistency and how it doesn't really matter what the numbers are as long as they are the same from ride to ride.

The not-so-great news is that we don't have a better way to estimate your power. Without using a power meter on your own trainer, we have no way to map your specific level of wear and tear/ factory resistance discrepancy. Therefore, the best we can do is choose a different power curve that seems more reasonable. Since you are using the Level 4 resistance level on the trainer, selecting the Level 3 resistance level in the VP settings will ultimately lower your power readout to a more reasonable wattage.

If this is something that you are interested in trying, do the following:
1. Test out the Level 3 curve to see if the numbers are closer to what you would expect. Also, try out the Level 2 curve.
2. Once you find the curve that most closely resembles the power you expect you're putting out, go ahead and reach out to support@trainerroad.com and ask them to reprocess your ride with the new power curve.
3. This will allow you to change your FTP to fit the new power curve without having to re-test.

Cheers!

Regarding the new ramp test @gray, the first iteration also overestimated my FTP and was bang-on with the new formula. I'm really happy to hear that we are working in the right direction for you as well 🙂

We are working on tweaking variables, and we really appreciate everyone who has tested and given us feedback.

Cheers!

Nice one, thanks Bryce!

PSA: I have a free month trial of trainer road available. Would best suit someone who rides turbo regularly, has a power meter, and is interested in a structured training programme,

so please don’t ask for it on a whim if you’re not going to use it. Cheers

Did Huffaker 45 last night - failed to hit the 4th and 5th interval targets but managed the 6th. Grim. My first VO2 max type session for a while though so I might repeat it in a few days to compare.

Just thought I’d poke my head in here and ask a quick question...

Ive just signed up to Trainerroad to take advantage of their structured training plans. I started following a plan back at the beginning of October (outside of TR) which gave me a solid 3 months of base training. I’ve been training about 12 hours a week since then with an adaptation week every 4th week. This is my first season following a proper training plan.

I’ve just picked up and started the High Volume Short Power Build plan and I’m a couple of weeks into it. So far so good. It’s an 8 week plan and I’ve got a week in Gran Canaria to look forward to at the end of that. I’ll get as much quality training in whilst I’m over there and plan to get stuck into the Short Track XC Speciality plan when I return. First race of the XC season is around the end of March.

Looking at the high volume speciality plan I was a bit shocked to see such a reduction in weekly TSS? I’ve been doing around 600 TSS a week and will be at around 675 by the time I finish the short power build. The toughest week in the speciality plan is about 540. Will this not make my fitness taper off quite dramatically? Should I be suplementing the plan with additional workouts?

Just wondered if there’s some logic behind that? Pretty sure I’d have to do more TSS just to maintain fitness?

Not all fitness is created equally or measured the same. TSS is basically a measure of volume and approximates to stamina (crudely). Short power build is going to be all about increasing performance for punchy climbs etc.

What's your primary objective?

Mr Blobby explains it better than I'm managing....

Primary objective is to do as well as possible at the Nationals. I raced sport category last year but will be racing Expert this year. I just don’t want to come last!

The short power build is a slight increase in TSS compared to what I’ve been doing so far. Saying that, overall hours have reduced but the IF has increased a bit. I was expecting a similar transition into the speciality phase (Lower volume and higher TSS & Intensity) instead it appears to drop the hours and TSS with another small increase in IF.

I track both completed and planned workouts in Training Peaks and and it appears that my overall fitness will drop throughout the speciality phase. I guess an expected increase in power could mitigate that?

gray - Member

Erm, about 133%. Word is that they're doing the calculation based on best 1 minute and best 5 minute power in the test, but I don't really get how that can be much different from being simply based on how high you get. Assuming the test is properly executed, anyway.

The power steps up linearly, but I reckon the pain curve is more exponential! You're quite comfortable for the bulk but the last couple of steps quickly put you at your limit. Seemed quite different to 8 or 20 min tests where there's a lot of adaptation as you get better at pacing the flat intervals. The ramp seemed more cut and dried - perhaps you can train it but it felt more like an open and shut case.

Warm/up was short, as well- don't know if this is integral to the test but if you're a slow starter you're legs won't appreciate this one.

@r8jimbob88

There is actually a very specific reason that the TSS is reduced during the Specialty Phase.

The aim of the Specialty phase is to tailor a rider’s fitness to be as specific as possible to the demands they’ll face during their key event(s). Workouts in this final phase of training are often the most intense workouts a rider will face over the entire course of the Base/Build/Specialty training cycle.

In contrast to the Specialty phase, the Build phase is responsible for raising the weekly stress to its highest point. If you were to continue this increase (or even maintain the final Build week’s TSS) into the Specialty phase, the combination of higher-intensity workouts, intermittent races and/or practice events, and the residual fatigue some riders might carry after a single Build-phase recovery week could cause a downward performance spiral.

In summary, you should not be supplementing this work with more work, but rather think of the reduction of TSS as a way for your body to get ahead of the fatigue and leave you primed and ready to race 🙂

@ Garry_Lager

Our aim with the Ramp test is exactly as you've mentioned. We are looking to create a test that a total beginner can complete and get their FTP without the complexity of pacing, completing a long warmup, etc.

It is complete in around 20 min and you really only have to suffer for those last two or three minutes 🙂

Thanks so much for taking the time to try it out, it really helps us fine tune the formula. Your FTP will be commented on your ride shortly!

Cheers,

Thanks Bryce Lewis, sounds good to me!

I’ll also give this ramp FTP a test next time it comes around.

Hi all, I used trainer road last winter but now cross country ski instead as my winter traiing, coupled with weights.

anyhows,I'm off to Finale at the start of May, when my cycle season starts I guess as the snow will have melted hopefully on my return.

which one of the trainer road programmes would yu guys recommend, to start perhaps around march /april to get ready for it.

as stated, i XC ski now (base or build stage I guess) and I do commute to work by bike as well. ta!

It's really cool that Bryce comes on here to chat.

I'm currently trying out Zwift while I pause my training for a while but I'll 100% be back on TR soon. One of the reasons is the customer support I've had, but now it sounds like I can get my FTP without 20 mins of teethgrinding I'm even more sold.

@r8jimbob - don't you want to be doing the xco plan not short track? Think short track is something they do in the states with very short races while our national series is xco style. No idea if there is much difference in the plans though

I've recently started sweet spot base, but thinking ahead, if I want to start my speciality phase in August (for cx) then I'm starting too early, should start base in March and build in June. I can't decide whether I should do an extra base when I finish this one, do extra build or think it gives me some extra weeks to use as recovery/ tapering in amongst the plan as I'll be doing some xc races as well. I guess for maximal improvement I shouldn't have extra rest weeks so one of the first two is a better option. Thoughts?

The ramp test looks interesting and definitely be preferable to the 20 minute test!

It would work best with an erg/smart turbo but would it still work with a dumb turbo and a power meter?

ferrals - Member

@r8jimbob - don't you want to be doing the xco plan not short track? Think short track is something they do in the states with very short races while our national series is xco style. No idea if there is much difference in the plans though

I've recently started sweet spot base, but thinking ahead, if I want to start my speciality phase in August (for cx) then I'm starting too early, should start base in March and build in June. I can't decide whether I should do an extra base when I finish this one, do extra build or think it gives me some extra weeks to use as recovery/ tapering in amongst the plan as I'll be doing some xc races as well. I guess for maximal improvement I shouldn't have extra rest weeks so one of the first two is a better option. Thoughts?

Will you be doing your CX training outside? I'd love to go into next season strong, but hitting the turbo in the summer seems really difficult.

everyone - Member

The ramp test looks interesting and definitely be preferable to the 20 minute test!

It would work best with an erg/smart turbo but would it still work with a dumb turbo and a power meter?

Crikey I've been looking at the wrong Speciality plan! Yes it's the XCO one that will be best for me. Oh how I can't wait to get stuck into some workouts at 0.93 on the IF scale.... vomit.

@Ferrals, if time was on my side i'd chuck in some additional Base to begin with.

I have Galena for the second time this week tonight, deep joy ahead.

easy week for me next week so might drop the ramp test in there somewhere. I'll also do the 20 min ftp at the start of my next block (SSBHV2) as I want to be sure I'm working off a correct assessment.

Is there not something to be said for sitting on your aris for a bit, (metaphorically speaking)? Can't be pushing the structured training year round.

Because of illness I've not done much since the end of November and it snot been structured. Hence having the appetite to get started now! Only 10hrs riding the whole of December!

Will you be doing your CX training outside? I'd love to go into next season strong, but hitting the turbo in the summer seems really difficult.

I tend to mix and match but roughly follow what the TR plan is suggested outside as well using percived effort. I do a lot of my training on the commute so stop somehwere for an hour of cx drills / intervals on the way too or from work. However I am a fair weather commuter so if its raining is turbo time.

r8jimbob88 - Member

@Ferrals, if time was on my side i'd chuck in some additional Base to begin with.

Think your right, especially as last season I think i came in over primed as my results went 9th, 11th, 13th, 15th, 19th and then stablised around there 😳

I had the same issue last year. I didn't have a huge amount of base fitness before building for the XC season. I only really got my head down in January and by mid June I was begining to suffer. I had a flying start to the season though.

I've got 3 months solid base under my belt now so hopefully I'll be able to see the full season through! I'll probably take a mini break and skip the National Champs in July.

Yeah, think I’d just be riding whatever bike I fancied, when I fancied, for fun and spend some time doing some structured strength work instead.

which one of the trainer road programmes would you guys recommend, to start perhaps around march /april to get ready for it.

Sweamrs is a nordic skier and it's pretty cardio intensive so I reckon that combined with commuting is plenty for a base. I'd be looking for something to sharpen power for short punchy climbs and the like so either short power build or XCO / XCM (depending on how much stamina you think you have from other cardio)

spend some time doing some structured strength work instead

Gym? I hate the gym. Or can I do strength work on the bike .. thinking low cadence drills and such

Our aim with the Ramp test is exactly as you've mentioned. We are looking to create a test that a total beginner can complete and get their FTP without the complexity of pacing, completing a long warmup, etc.

With FTP being 60MP, we estimate it as a percentage of 20MP, or as average of 2x8MP, and now from a relatively short range of ramping 1 min efforts. I'd be interested to know how consistent a value of FTP can be derived across all the various test protocols. And I guess with TR sessions being scaled by a single value of FTP it's something that needs to be "right".

Really all the tests are informing you of different things, all of it potentially useful data, and then you're estimating a single value based on that result with some margin of error and ignoring the rest 🙂

Edit... I'd prefer a ramp test too as it takes pacing out of the equation and relatively short!