TrainerRoad - STW approved sessions

Have you built up a power profile over various durations Kryton?

Part of what you describe is a problem estimating a value for 60 minute power from an effort of shorter duration. Assumes everyone fits a certain curve. And then there's the consequence of then working out interval efforts from that one value. For example, it would likely make more sense for your 5 min efforts to be done at a percentage of your 5 min max, not as a percentage of your FTP.

Useful thanks.

I have - I did the Hunter Allen Profile test also which is on TR. The model I fitted was a "Sprinter" which surprised me somewhat. But then last season I tested that and as ADSH can testify, I found myself speinting off the start in front at Vets R3, but needing more fitness/sustainable power to back it up as I quickly lost places after that. I can still outsprint people after 1:20 of racing, and often hold back on a place at the end to do so.

As my above posts, my 30sec power is good, it tails off after that. Because of this I did the Olympic XC plan last year to build longer sustainable power - thats why I started TT's as well, those are a interesting way for me to do something to focus on sustainable power increase.

What I need is higher sustainable power for climbs and race duration, and to understand how I can stay further up the field. I also think I'm just crap at the Tests - although I'll see over the next couple of workouts - I think my FTP is probably about 5% under.

However, the reason I created the graph I posted was to spot trends. The trend I found is that I lose power at this time of the year, regain and exceed it by March during winter training, and repeat. My estimated FTP would have me the "same" as I found myself in March 2016, which is a good sign for March 2017 if the trend continues.

ADSH can testify, I found myself speinting off the start in front at Vets R3

I can't I was too busy dying (12hr training regime meets XC for first time).

I find I can't be arsed about numbers atm. I'm reverting to results

Well, I'm getting bored of numbers too. All this mental machination and basically all I know is I have a good sprint, yet low sustainable power and a lot of cardio endurance for 24hrs.

Its the bits in the middle I'm lacking.

Ouch, just done Lincoln, struggled to walk upstairs afterwards!

That was entertaining. Brick workout using Pioneer. Do the TR workout but stop before the cool down, into running shoes, and out the door for a tempo 2 miles. Not sure I managed to run in a straight line for the first half mile.

Good to see your well organised Ben 🙂

Are you not planning on any long (6hr) real rides at all ? Are you going to do it all on the Turbo ?

I had a quick look, so might have missed it.

The vast majority will be on the turbo. I think the longest is four hours. That's a lot of Netflix 🙂

I will do some outdoor in the Spring and I also have a half distance (Outlaw Half) in the buildup. I don't intend doing the full 112 miles in training as I don't feel it's necessary. Probably do 80 odd as an outdoor.

So here's a first for me, I fell out of my Turbo last night and went whizzing across my mancave and fell into a pile of stepladders 🙂

I've no idea whats going on with me but I'm beasting TR at 105% with a grin on my face yet STILL exceeding power on the intervals. So much so I was pushing 580w on a 30sec race start which should have been at 130% FTP, coming down to just above FTP for 3 mins. It was during the 580 that I moved the bike too much and it fell out of the turbo, I was of course giving it some beans in a big gear.

My FTP obviously needs to go up, but I have Thimble tomorrow (14x50secs at 127% FTP) and I'm being cautious about that before I do

Don't take this as a criticism, as its not, its probably a lack of knowledge on my part

but I have Thimble tomorrow (14x50secs at 127% FTP)

This bit here is why i'm always reluctant to follow generic training plans without having a knowledgeable coach to talk over and explain things.

Now, if I remember rightly, Kryton is aiming for a first peak around March, that's still >4 months away. From the digging i've done, Thimble isn't performed at a low cadence, so isn't a force building session which I would understand >4 months out. It appears to be a VO2Max/Lactate tolerance session.

So, can anyone explain for me why TR have added this type of session in the plan so far out from the target peak date?

So, can anyone explain for me why TR have added this type of session in the plan so far out from the target peak date?

It could be me. I'm doing Base, Build 1 <Christmas/Rest week> Build 2, Speciality

After Build 1 is the Brass Monkeys series as C races, so a "soft" peak before a Jan C race (BOTB) Feb B race then my proper A race in March. I then "B" race and maintain until the next A race in July.

The Tuesday sessions seems to be low force, Thursdays VO2max, Sat/Sun seem to be O/U's & muscular endurance.

I've no idea whats going on with me but I'm beasting TR at 105% with a grin on my face yet STILL exceeding power on the intervals.

Worth noting here that your RPE can depend a lot on your current form, which goes up and down as you train and rest. So sometimes you might find a session easy, and other times you might struggle to finish. Always tempting to whack up the percentage up if you're feeling strong but you are making the workout harder and increasing the TSS which might have a knock on effect on future form.

Again something that's quite difficult to quantify if you are just following a plan and not doing any analysis on the data.

I am doing both - currently increase percentage to 105% on the second half only, watching TSS and as a result at least last weeks weekend and perhaps this weeks will bea easier than originally planned.

First FTP test for the turbo season early yesterday morning. Surprisingly only 5% down on the seasons peak and feel I could have gone slightly harder. That and plus 4kg. Plan is to get to spring having built back up again and lose the excess. Tough challenge given Xmas is in the way

That and plus 4kg.

About the same here 🙂 Always seems to happen when I back off the intensity for winter.

A few turbo sessions recently, mostly custom z2/z3 and variations on Kennedy Peak, trying to do as much as I can in TT position. Still getting out as much as I can for long steady rides before winter kicks in.

Back on the TR tonight - 8 min test after a lamb dopiaza and peshwari naan. Good God, never ever do that again.

Still, only a few percent down so good to get that under the belt. Been fannying around with TR over the past month, just not getting going with it plus a couple of refusals on some VO2 max stuff. So hope to get into the swing of it again.

This is getting ridiculous. I did The Priest last night. Back up to my pre-test and 2016 best FTP and although yet again there was some effort & a little pain, I had loads left. Instead of 140% 30sec hard race starts, i ended up doing them at 700+w, with my last 95% training interval at ever increasing power to the finish.

No achy legs this morning. Yet I can't finish an 8min test, Wtf. It'll be interesting to see how Sundays race goes.

I don't do much Trainerroading now I'm on Zwift but still read through this thread, this isn't supposed to sound argumentative but your posts on this topic tend to fit into two distinct categories:

Cat 1 - Pushing harder than the plan suggests when on easy/rest days

Cat 2 - Wondering why you can't push as hard as you should be able to. Especially when, the day before, you felt so strong on a rest day you decided to beast yourself instead.

I'm sure you're more than aware of your training loads etc etc but it does sometimes sound like you're not doing yourself any favours! 😉

I'd love a power meter but it seems an extravagance at my level unless I see a stages going cheap or something. I'm going to start racing again next year so perhaps that will convince me to get one! It just seems a faff when I've got four bikes and ride them all (winter/summer road bikes; hardtail and trail bike!). I'm sure as hell not getting four pms!

haha, so after writing this I went and bought a powertap wheelset on ebay 😳 It seems like my Kurt was under-reading by about a consistent 20-25 watts so I'm looking forward to retesting next week (just in the sweet spot base 1 recovery week at the moment).

The problem is now I'm going to have to use the powertap equipped bike (my winter bike) on the turbo as well as outside, and I can't be bothered with changing tyres all the time. So, I better stockpile cheap hardwearing tyres that don't ride like crap. I normally run GP4000s or four seasons, but I'm not killing them on the turbo. I've got a set of ultrasports that would do the job but they do feel really slow. Any recommendations for a good, hardwearing, fast, grippy, cheap 25c tyre? 😆

Ianpv - Michilin Lithion 2's I've had one on the back of my bike inside and outside - for two years now.

IvanDobski - Member

I don't do much Trainerroading now I'm on Zwift but still read through this thread, this isn't supposed to sound argumentative but your posts on this topic tend to fit into two distinct categories:

Cat 1 - Pushing harder than the plan suggests when on easy/rest days

Using last night as an example, pushing race start and then maintaining a high sub threshold effort for three minutes x 5 is supposed to be hard. Its not feeling hard, which is the issue so yes I'm making it harder. I don't see an issue with that.

Cat 2 - Wondering why you can't push as hard as you should be able to. Especially when, the day before, you felt so strong on a rest day you decided to beast yourself instead.

I don't do that now, I learned from the previous advice. Vis a Vis today I'm lounging around doing sod all. Actually perhaps this is wy the other intervals are going better.

i ended up doing them at 700+w

Because mine have 3 minutes rest periods in between? Probably much use at the last 20k of a TDF stage...

Confirmation I'm doing the right thing please folks to appease the training anxiety (or alternatively give me a better idea!):

Situation:

Week before last hard training week (7hrs)- almost achieved but missed Sunday's Session due to travelling abroad for work (I did an extra half hour easy on the sat eve to cater for this as much as i could).

Last week - should have been a hard training week as well but was abroad with work until late night Weds and the promised hotel gym was diabolical with broken exercise bike. Thursday completed session but was ill by thurs eve, basialy slept Fri, sat,sun. (only managed 2hrs on bike)

This week, should be an easy week. Was away again with work Mon and tues, feeling just about recovered from illness.I've gone slightly rogue in that got back from work late on tues so just did 1/2hr easy spinning last night and then did Dorr (1/2hr with three sprints) this morning.

I assume should be aiming to stick to plan and have an easy week even though lost a whole hard week of training?

I'm planning on an hour v02max taper workout Thursday and then Racing Sunday so just an hour openers on Sat.

I'm worried about having lost a lot of fitness with being ill, not exercising and eating rubbish while away so feel like I should be doing more but guess I'm better off keeping rested for Sunday as won't be able to boost fitness before then anyway. Am also consicuos that I'm still not 100% well

Thoughts?

guess I'm better off keeping rested for Sunday as won't be able to boost fitness before then anyway

You already know the answer.
CTL will probably look like its in freefall, but in reality, if you've had a solid season training behind you, you aren't suddenly going to become unfit in 2 weeks.

Using last night as an example, pushing race start and then maintaining a high sub threshold effort for three minutes x 5 is supposed to be hard. Its not feeling hard, which is the issue so yes I'm making it harder. I don't see an issue with that.

Kryton, looking at Priest, it's 0.82 IF and 68 TSS for 60 mins. That shouldn't feel too hard, and there's a lot of recovery in there. Looks like it's trying to work on something quite specific so probably shouldn't be about smashing as hard as possible.

I'm better off keeping rested for Sunday as won't be able to boost fitness before then anyway.

Ferrals, yes, you might as well take the time to recover properly.

Cheers Fifeandy, mrBlobby, yeah what I knew already, have to admit its the fitness and freshness charts that get me questioning it 👿

Good to get the confrimation so I don't go off-track and beast myself just for the the good of those stupid fitness lines

Hmm ok. Yes it is tryring replicate race starts and keeping pressure on up sudden perhaps unexpected climbs / making and sustaining a gap. All of which works well for me for XC racing.

The idea is to build power / sustainable power though, so as long at it doesnt ruin my next workout or event, why wouldnt i smash my legs only for them to re-build stronger, at the same time improving my cardio endurance?

I guess im nervous that by not feeling wasted at the end my ftp is too low and my training will be comprimised.

thinking about firing up my trainerroad sub again, but wondering if Zwift is worth it as an alternative?

I guess im nervous that by not feeling wasted at the end my ftp is too low and my training will be comprimised.

If it's a 60 min session with an IF of 1.0 (or well into the 0.9's, e.g. [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/3169-table ]Table[/url]) then you will feel wasted as that should be close to your max 🙂 60 mins at an IF of 0.85 should be quite hard but far from max.

Low volume plans are a tricky proposition as you have little training time and lots of recovery time so you do need to bump up the intensity. Everyone has different capacity for how much load they can handle (TSS per week or month) and one plan doesn't fit all. If you are easily coping with the workload on a week by week basis then maybe bump the workouts up a bit or find equivalents that have a bit more duration, or maybe chuck an extra 30 mins of z2 at the end of each one. (Or add an extra ride, or change over to mid/high volume.)

thinking about firing up my trainerroad sub again, but wondering if Zwift is worth it as an alternative?

TBH most people I know are now Zwifting. Especially during winter when it tends to be longer steadier sessions. I still prefer to watch some telly and do trainer road though. If I had a smart turbo though I would probably be Zwifting.

Ah yes, I forgot to factor in IF...

Well November is here and so I'm looking at restarting the turbo but can't face an FTP test as my first time back in 4 months so I'll probably assume same as this time last year to begin with.

I'm not sure of the attraction of zwift so I'll probably stick to TrainerRoad.

Sweamrs is also interested this year so we're looking at running the TR companion on occasion. "Date night" while sweajnr sleeps upstairs 😀

I'm really enjoying sweet spot base at the moment. Nice challenge but not vomit enducing , can watch Only fools and horses reruns on Dave and then go to bed a few hours later knowing I've done a nice bit of training. All good things .

First time back on the turbo last night. My coach has started incorporating some TrainerRoad sessions into my weekley training which started off with Leavitt +1.

While not strictly a tough session (7 x 10min @ 75%-85% FTP with no rest periods), it certainly caused a large amounnt of moisture around my person 😆

Moist. Fantastic word

I've not actually ridden my bike for 10days. After 15hrs of turbo I just could not face another hour plus this morning on the turbo so I got on my SS and rousted it round some very muddy trails.

Turns out to have been a great workout both for core (high cadence) and the legs as well as restoring my sanity.

Slowly building back up, even Dans on Weds eve was a struggle. Managed scott peak last night and it hurt. Felt ok afterwards though. Can't wait to ride a bike outside tomorrow. Super frothing. Seems like the enforced rest may have been a blessing in disguise as was mentally not all there before.

Question re. fitness: say you have two weeks off completely and assoicated fitness loss (however much that is) - how long does it take to ge back to that fitness assuming a moderate training regime? similar amount of time?

Can't wait to ride a bike outside tomorrow. Super frothing.

Sounds like that'll more than make up for any loss of fitness 🙂

how long does it take to ge back to that fitness assuming a moderate training regime?

I had best part of a month off sick in the summer, didn't take much more than a couple of weeks to feel like I was back on a decent level. Probably depends on the individual and where you are with your training and how you measure fitness.

A couple of hours outside for me last night, needed a break from the turbo. A fairly bright super moon but cold and a bit damp. Was going well but had to stop for a few minutes to sort out a sheared mudguard bolt. Got cold and never felt like I got properly going again after that. Don't get that on the turbo.

Sounds like that'll more than make up for any loss of fitness

Hopefully! Potentially snowy race on Sunday so just a quick blast tomorrow and try to keep that froth bubbling over till the start line 😆

Ferrals, how did it go?

Ferrals, how did it go?

From a racing point of view - diabolical. For so many [s]reasons[/s] excuses: It was snowy and temps around zero; my feet were numb before i started race; I couldn't brake because becasuse not only did my hands go numb but my pads wore out from the gritty slush (plenty of other people's did too); I didn't like the course, it was out along a very pot-holed fire road and back along a rocky blue graded mtb singletrack, feeling that cold I didnt feel safe to ride the singletrack at speed.

But.. my fitness wasnt atrocious and if it had been warmer and I had been more up for it I think I'd have felt fitter. Unlike a couple of weeks ago I didnt actually feel ill racing and I feel fine now so I hope finally the virus I've had for a month has gone.

The chimneys plus three this evening, pushed it on the initial hard starts so probably more like one of hte priest workouts. Think these are my favourite type of workouts, bit of variety but not too complex so can still watch tv.

Christ.

I've got a cold, so what better to continue on-plan with Foerster - 25x50s on/off at 125% for the uninitiated.

I've got a new reason to push myself and that I did, for the first time ending curled up on the Kitchen floor at the end not quite knowing where I was feeling very peculiar indeed... 😯

Marion tonight, 3 x 12.

Promised myself I'd try and ride outdoors as much as possible this winter as I'm sure reliance on the turbo was at least partly the reason I had such a slow start last season.

Still, good to get a session in once in a while and TrainerRoad is still doing it for me.

Another custom TR session here, a couple of hours of z2 with a 40 min tempo block. It's all been long steady tempo and sweet spot blocks for November. Been doing as much of it outdoors as weather and circumstances allow. Trying to avoid the mistakes of last winter where I made some good turbo gains that didn't really carry over to the road. So getting a decent balance between outdoor and turbo, and doing pretty much all turbo in position. Early days but reckon it's going ok so far.

Sweajnr is doing his best impersonation of a bio hazard and so keeler needle has been postponed and replaced with Baxter.

I'm enjoying TR at the moment. Doing sweet spot base instead of traditional this year and much prefer it . Although after first six weeks I do really feel I need a rest week . Which was nice

Each to thier own mrblobby but i dont know how you cope with 2 hours z2. Equally though my outdorr rides - of which there have been few - with the club ive made a point of doing hard turns on the front to simulate threshold or easier at tempo duringbthe ride. Im also pacing the climbs much better this year as ive finally got over the "pain doesnt mean the end of my ride" mental barrier.

I've done a few sweet spot workouts this week. Trying to get Powermatch working (Powertap hub, Vortex Smart turbo) but it simply doesn't work properly. I've been trying to figure out the underlying algorithm so that I can figure out how to drive it so that it works most of the time. Sometimes it works well for an interval, other times it just craps out. At the moment I think I'll have to just disable it, and just use the Powertap to keep tabs on the Vortex calibration / thermal drift and to record accurate data.

It's a real shame - I presume that Powermatch must work better than this on e.g. a Kickr, but I would have thought that my situation was most typical of people who want to use Powermatch. If you have an accurate measure of power, and a means to electronically control resistance then a fairly cheap wheel-on trainer should in theory give all of the control of a more expensive trainer. Could just be that my Vortex is a dud, but aside from drift it works pretty well if I disconnect the Powertap from TR. So I'm pretty sure that it's a software issue. I simply don't have the time to learn how to write software to do ANT+ stuff otherwise I'd have a go.

Annoying that. How does it crap out? Raise it with TR support as it's the app that's doing the power match. They are usually pretty good.

Each to thier own mrblobby but i dont know how you cope with 2 hours z2.

Netflix and a low boredom threshold 🙂 Also working on something specific which helps. I messed it up a bit last year, see if it works better this year.

Each to thier own mrblobby but i dont know how you cope with 2 hours z2.

i dont know how you cope with 2 hours z2

I think my lack of a controlled and long enough base period this year is whats given me my fatigue / illness issues in the last 6 weeks. So starting in January I'm going to be doing a lot of that, films are definately the way to go.

Annoying that. How does it crap out? Raise it with TR support as it's the app that's doing the power match. They are usually pretty good.

Well, it craps out in a number of ways. Most commonly by basically not responding properly to a requested power change as I go from a rest period into an interval.

It quite often does this:
[img] [/img]

Where it takes 2 minutes to creep up to the requested power. I believe that this is the length of time that it takes for their internal 'model' for the relationship between requested power and delivered power to catch up (I suspect a filter, so whilst it is updating regularly, it is effectively updating some averages using a kernel of around 2 minutes).

Sometimes I think that the internal model is completely screwed by the end of the rest interval, because in the gear that I'm pushing, the requested power is simply too low for the Vortex to deliver, so TR effectively asks for lower and lower resistance levels and its scaling factors drift further and further. This makes me think that TR is using requested power vs powermeter power for its model rather than trainer-reported-power vs powermeter power.

Lately I've been changing down and trying to nail the rest interval power to combat this, and it helps, but not always (this one isn't too bad really, but not ideal):

[img] [/img]

Today I did some out of the saddle drills. That screwed it up completely, and it just wouldn't get back on track until I tried all sorts - flicking to slope mode and back to Erg, pausing and recalibrating the Vortex, changing gears about:

[img] [/img]

I have no explanation for this one this morning:

[img] [/img]

- to get this back on track I fiddled with gears, possibly did another spindown (can't remember - did about 5 spindowns today). The first section of the interval (nice rise, but plateaued too low, then started drifting down instead of up) was all in the same gear and cadence as I was using when I finished the rest interval.

I think my best plan is to disable Powermatch but leave the Powertap paired. With a warm spindown on the Vortex it won't be a million miles out, but I can bump the intensity of the workout up or down to bring it into line. Won't help with the within-interval thermal drift that I get on the Vortex though (this is about 10% drift during a sweet spot 5 minute interval).

I have had a conversation with TR tech support about this back in June. They were nice and helpful as always, but weren't able to offer anything that fixed it.

Gray, puzzling that. TBH I'm not sure I'd bother with erg mode for those sorts of intervals. I can see managing transitions from one level of resistance to another being a bit of a pain and it difficult to get the ramp right. Accelerating up through the gears to the right power seems a much more natural thing to do.

Does it work any better if you let the Vortex take care of it all?

I think my lack of a controlled and long enough base period this year is whats given me my fatigue / illness issues in the last 6 weeks. So starting in January I'm going to be doing a lot of that, films are definately the way to go.

Well I had quite a patchy end to the season then some time off. So October and November I've mostly spent just getting lots of steady z2/z3 and long tempo block work in building up a reasonable CTL before upping the intensity a bit for late December and Jan. I would have failed miserably had I tried launching into that in October.

I'm quite use to long turbo sessions now. Find some mindless action TV series on netflix and watch episode after episode (doing Arrow at the moment which fits the bill nicely.) Time goes pretty quick. Don't need to think about what I'm going to watch for next turbo session either, just pick up where I left off.

Gray, puzzling that. TBH I'm not sure I'd bother with erg mode for those sorts of intervals. I can see managing transitions from one level of resistance to another being a bit of a pain and it difficult to get the ramp right. Accelerating up through the gears to the right power seems a much more natural thing to do.

Does it work any better if you let the Vortex take care of it all?

I love Erg mode, when it works. It's great just concentrating on maintaining a cadence, or doing whatever drills you want, and not worrying about hitting a power target, not changing gear etc.

If I just let the Vortex take care of it all then it invariably functions perfectly, in the sense that the Vortex-reported power tracks the desired profile, and the resistance changes as I would expect (ramps are softened slightly so that the increase is over a couple of seconds rather than instantaneous. The Vortex doesn't lock up like some do (I gather, where you can get into a low cadence, very high resistance situation and find it hard to get out of because it's too hard to produce enough torque to get back into a sensible cadence range).

The downside to just using the Vortex, though, is that it is really very temperature dependant. If I do a spindown at the end of a decent interval (i.e. once it's up to temperature) then it will be in the right ballpark for subsequent efforts at the same intensity. It drifts within intervals though, and out by varying amounts depending on the intensity (and hence tyre / unit temperatures) of other intervals.

e.g. a test run from May:

[img] [/img]

Zoomed in:

[img] [/img]

Bit less than 10% drift over the interval, so maybe I should just ignore it, bit it just seems a bit crap when the intervals are supposed to be targeting quite specific %FTP. I suppose it helps to encourage fast cadences though - faster spin = warmer bits = easier actual effort for a given specified effort...

About this time last year I was just using the Vortex. I was also just doing spindowns right at the start of each session (I figured that if the calibration was a bit out then it didn't matter since I was looking for improvements not absolutely accurate watts, so I was just looking to cater for changes in tyre pressure etc.). However, as winter drew in, the difference between cold and warm increased, so the miscalibration steadily increased as the season grew colder. This was responsible for a good chunk of my FTP improvements last year! Of course, that effect can easily be removed by just doing a spindown once warm (or indeed only every few sessions, when warm).

Is odd that. I wonder how the protocol works? TR probably says "give me 200 watts" to the turbo, then waits a bit and sees what the PM is reporting, then tries to tweak the turbo up or down (e.g. 201...wait... 202...wait.. 203... wait... etc.) so that the power generated is actually 200 watts. I can see how it might take a while to arrive at the correct power, especially if there is a bit of a discrepancy.

I'd still rather use a real PM and turn off erg. 10% is huge. Say you're targeting a long threshold session @ 300W. You could be 270 or 330, so way too easy or far too hard.

I initially thought (based on one interpretation of the TR description of it) that essentially TR monitors the relationship between powermeter data and turbo data, and just periodically (every 10 seconds or so) sends an actual calibration message to the turbo. If that were the case, the turbo's broadcast power would roughly match the powermeter's transmissions though, which it really definitely doesn't (I've checked by doing a spindown when cold so that the turbo's calibration is way out, and the way out-ness persists, so TR are not recalibrating the Vortex.

Instead I think it continuously (ish) calculates an offset, and applies that offset to its requests to the Vortex for a specific resistance (in watts). So if TR concludes that the Vortex is reading 20 watts low, then when TR wants 200 watts, then TR will ask the Vortex for 220. They don't want that offset to bounce around all over the shop though (with noise or genuine spikiness in either data source), so I think that they calculate the offset frequently, but apply an offset that is roughly the average of the last 2 minutes' worth of offsets. I can see why you'd want to calculate the offset between requested and delivered, but in low wattage scenarios with the Vortex, that's not going to work. Instead it would be better to use Vortex-reported power vs power meter power, and just deal with the noisiness with a bit of robust signal processing.

I could well be completely wrong - what I see isn't entirely consistent. And of course my Vortex could be playing up as well, for all I know.

As I said, I'd like to have a play with writing stuff and testing it myself, but it would take ages and I'd still want to use the TR workouts and training plans (and am not interested in ripping off their workouts).

I agree that 10% is too much. In theory I could use the workout intensity modificatatron to manually bump up or down some % within an interval, but that seems like way too much faff to me - defeats the point of using Erg mode (might as well muck about with gears instead).

Still plugging away at TR here. Still mostly long steady variations on Kennedy Peak. Though did push on a bit during a session the other night as a little leg tester and got a pretty pleasing new 10 minute medal as part of a longer effort 8) Was at a power that would have been the 8 min test power for my current FTP and didn't feel maxed out so it's probably a little on the low side right now. Should really man up and do a proper 20 min test.

Got a new smart turbo on order too so I might finally have to give Zwift a go. Think some Zwift racing might be a good way to stretch the legs a bit 🙂 Any other trainer roaders flirting with Zwift?

No, I got bored and thank for the reminder to cancel my subscription.

What you doing now then Kryton?

Bored with Zwift not TR.

Thanks to Mrs K organising 3 weeks of Santa orientated activity I'm in a period of limbo where its difficult get out on the bike. I did 45k of Turbo last week. :|. I guess this is now my rest period and I'll have to work over Christmas week to get back on track.

I'm also demotivated to go out on the wretched machine during these cold evenings, not helped by her purchase of a Christmas Beer advent calendar. I'm currently weighing up tonights option in my head, temp shows 0.5...

Bored of Zwift = bored with life Kryton, just as well end it all now 😀 😉

Sent via my iPad whilst Zwifting

Bored with Zwift not TR.

The racing sounds interesting, but I really can't see the appeal of long Zwift sessions, I think it would be boring too, but then I've not tried it.

Christmas Beer advent calendar.

Who knew there was such a thing.

. I guess this is now my rest period and I'll have to work over Christmas week to get back on track.

Just in time for the Festive 500 🙂

One of my team buddies on Zwift did a 270mile 24hr session for WBR !!!!! Raised over $3000.

[img] [/img]

Not for racing snakes 😐

I'm not sure I've missed the point of zwift. I get the workouts of course although I don't want to deviate from my TR plan which is showing well on the road, and I'm now back to my all time high FTP.

Otherwise it seems either riding around in circles, or a race which doesnt suit my training time. Add to that I've got variable wi fi in the shed and its TR all the way.

I keep telling myself the 2 weeks of limited riding / training I'm having is better than the chest infections of 2 years ago.

Anyway, its about to be week 8 of Build 1, 3 week of more Build by repeating weeks 6,7 & 8 then Speciality XCO in January.

I'm doing a 40 mins vets CX over Christmas - on an pan flat golf course using my MTB 😆

Otherwise it seems either riding around in circles, or a race which doesnt suit my training time. Add to that I've got variable wi fi in the shed and its TR all the way.

That's the way I see it. Could be a nice complement to TR though if the racing with a smart turbo better simulates the variability in real riding though which is something you miss doing TR work.

I'm doing a 40 mins vets CX over Christmas - on an pan flat golf course using my MTB

Ooh like the sound of that. Where is it?

I think Zwift is best considered as a place rather than a thing. A dry, varied, traffic free training Loop of ultra consistent, headwind devoid roads.
Better still, there's 500-1500 others kicking around to play with.
I think Watopia alone has 75km of different routes.

It's best on a big tv in the dark with a powerful fan.

Once they launch a VR headset, I may never leave the house again 😀

Sorry- I'll go back to the correct thread 😀

@kryton and blobby, you are not alone, that is also the way i see zwift.

I guess you guys are just more disciplined. I don't even use workout mode on Zwift- targeting wattages on graphs is about as far away from what I love about cycling as you can get.
At least Zwift tricks you into thinking you're moving and going somewhere.

(I'm not dissing TR btw, I've never tried it.)

I've managed 270hrs cycling this year, way above any other year and that's 70% Zwift. For me, I saw the potential for racing straight away and that was what hooked me. It only took one Mano v Mano battle up the Richmond worlds course climbs during a race, for me to fall head over heels with it! It was as pure as any Gorrick or CX battle I've ever had.

Mojo back! Ok so it was only Mount Field, and I didn't realise I entered rest week maybe then explaining why i felt so low last week. But it felt good, I practised some standing transitions and stayed comfortably on power. It's cold out here though, if your want to see a semi naked middle aged man steaming away in a fog feel free...

View this post on Instagram

Lol, I video'd my session for body movement and position, I also spent a few minutes aero. Looks as though I need a stronger core.

What has been seen cannot be unseen 🙁

😉

Ok so it was only Mount Field, and I didn't realise I entered rest week maybe then explaining why i felt so low last week

Hate the last few rides of a hard block before a rest week. Even a steady z2 ride can have you on your knees.

What has been seen cannot be unseen

Hmm, I've opened it in another tab but not looked yet. I can't stop myself. Sorry, future me!

Wow, that [b]was[/b] steamy. I'm just heading out to the turbo shed. See you on the other side!

Lol, the clue was in the text, you didn't have to click on the link.

Ooh like the sound of that. Where is it?

Beastway Yulecross, Lewisham 27th December 11:40 Vets. Mayby a bit far East for you? Apparantly it'll be up on BC any day now.

Yes, it never fails to amaze me how few miles you do yet how wearing the end of a turbo block is. My biggest problem wss I has a cold and I didn't look forward - if I'd have realised last week that a rest week was coming I may have been slightly more motivated.

Gray, had meant to ask how it was going with the back injury. Back riding outdoors again?

Yeah, off and on. Had a good spell of slowly getting back into it over the summer. Even rode to work and back again on bike to work day (just over 50 miles each way) with no ill effects. Then went backwards for a bit in the autumn - just ached a lot of the time. Seem to be over that now though. At the moment I seem to feel better if I have been riding than not. I've been doing a bit on the turbo over the last few weeks. Planning to start Sweet Spot Base properly next week, and mix in some outdoor stuff as I did last year. Feeling optimistic!

Only downside is that I'm probably having surgery to whip out the scaffolding early next year (had a CT this week, waiting to get results). Should be straightforward and a fairly quick recovery, but they will be cutting through my back muscles and interfering with my spine so it's likely to be a bit sore at least. I'm expecting it to be a blip though, and am planning a road biking trip to somewhere warm in the spring!

Good stuff 🙂 Get that biking holiday booked.

So after finally getting rid of a Uti thats made me feel like crap since I came back from the States over a month ago I have started sweet spot training. Did 8 minutes FTP and result is higher than 2 years ago when I finished training. Coming off the back of a good year it looks like I've held my base fitness well. Back on trainer road after using Zwift last year with my Tacx Vortex and its the first time I've used an erg trainer( I was on virtual power on a tacx flow last time). I like the erg. Swapped road bike for singlespeed 29er after 8 minute test and apart from the really big 5 second peaks on Ebetts its been really good. Got my mojo back for it. Would have stayed on Zwift but dont like being told where to ride. I didnt like the Ride London course and got bored of it pretty quickly. I love the watopia course and have read that its going to be extended this month. Never really got bored of it and did 55 miles in one go last year. Feeling I need something more specific as I'm getting older (50 in Jan) and hoping that I can go thru all 3 stages of trainer road. Targetted events arent until June and then later into year. Enjoy reading how you are all getting on. A couple of questions if anyone has an opinion.( i'm sure someone does this is the STW forum) I have the opportunity to commute to work and back if I want.(13 miles of relatively flat trail in total). Should I do it and then go on trainer road in the evening or will the commute just be dead miles?. I am lucky enough to only work alternate weeks so once my lad has gone to school I have 6 hours to myself. I love going out riding on my own but how do I integrate this into my training. I spoke to Jason Miles a couple of months ago and his words of wisdom were that as you get older you have to learn to train smart, I'm conscious of not building up fatique by doing too many dead miles. Last year through Zwift and outdoor riding I was regularly doing 350-400 miles a month up to Mayhem in June. Was really pleased with how I did there so do I just keep doing same or will trainer road be a better option. Any thoughts. Thanks

My thoughts.

I'd commute but take it easy. I'd look at something like the mid volume workout and decide if any of the lower intensity workouts could be done on the commute. Trainerroad for the intensity workouts and then commute for active recovery and the like. Maybe even us a HR monitor to keep enthusiasm in check.

I hate commuting by car or public transport and so the mental aspect of being able to cycle would be a big factor.

FTP test for me this morning. First one with a proper power meter. Didn't pace it brilliantly, but it will do for now. Apparently my music woke my wife (I was in the shed, thought it wasn't *that* loud). Will have to bear that in mind for next time otherwise I won't be popular with her or the neighbours! Having The Prodigy screaming at you is good for motivation though, I find.

Smack my Bitch up? Maybe the volume isnt the issue... 😉

Liking [i]run the jewels[/i] on the FTP playlist atm, angry music, give you an extra 10W.

Have a bit of power meter envy right now, virtual power is all over the gaff. Was crawling off VO2 max stuff like Kaiser in September, couldn't finish it. Got a few CX races under the belt and I'm now crushing it nae bother, hr barely touching threshold. Don't feel like there should be anything like that difference. Guess a FTP test is in order.