I couldn't do more than 90 mins and most of mine are 60 minute ones accordingly. I've been surprised at how tolerable it is in terms of boredom though, especially with the sessions that have a a number of shorter intervals. The FTP style ones can become a bit dull with the longer durations specified.
Did Huffaker yesterday and the third interval of the first set had me clinging on for dear life, eyes shut, breathing like a asthmatic donkey. Got through it though and stayed on target for the remainder of the session. 🙂
I shorten a lot of my 90 minute sessions to 60, they tend to fall on a Saturday when I'm following a plan and it's a convenient enough excuse to leave something in the legs for the Sunday club run.
Struggled with Leconte on Saturday, 2 x 10 with a minute recovery in between and repeated 3 times total. Got halfway through the second lot but couldn't get motivated to see it out.
Maybe just one of those days or more likely a week off is needed, I'll get through week 5 of the plan (this week) then take the recovery week outdoors for a change of scenery.
rsvktm - MemberFerrals, not good te lack of motivation, it happens for all sorts of reasons. Been racing on and off for a long time, had some big accidents leading to time off the bike, too much work and general life getting in the way but have always come back to the reason why I ride. I enjoy it.
The competative urge ebbs and flows as does the drive to train, don't be hard on yourself. When the mtb is built up just go for a ride and don't record it, just ride.
Cheers, i think a big thing is the lack of real riding - two weeks off at Christmas though so will be riding a lot 🙂
Although frustrating, I'm not massively fussed - its a long way till XC season after all so if I'm going to have a motivation slump this is a good time!
Morning all, sorry a bit late to the party. I have been using Turbotraining.co.uk for a good while now and someone has given me a referral for trainer road. Just wonder thoughts on if this is better in any way ? and maybe just a bit of feedback.. Ta.
@lump The referral was from me (same username here and on Bearbones 😀 ) I've not used turbotraining so can't offer a comparison. The usual starting point is to do one of the FTP tests so you have a value within TR to work against.
ugh, fell apart miserably during interval 4 of Kaiser last night, had to knock it down 10% for interval 5 but managed to get it together agian for the final interval.
20 min FTP test in just over an hours time, wish me luck...
ugh, fell apart miserably during interval 4 of Kaiser last night, had to knock it down 10% for interval 5 but managed to get it together agian for the final interval.
Not done Kaiser in a while but that 4th interval did seem to be the tough one. Would often have a wobble then get it together again for the last two.
20 min FTP test in just over an hours time, wish me luck...
Go smash it 🙂
Go smash it Kryton! I've got mine later today, not sure whether I should go out with a target in mind or just close my eyes, turn up the music and bury myself.
Pretty chuffed today. Set a new PR FTP about 5 weeks ago with the 20 minute test.
On Zwift this morning I matched the 20 minute power output with a HR 10 beats lower and without spanking myself.
New FTP test time soon!
I've got mine later today, not sure whether I should go out with a target in mind or just close my eyes, turn up the music and bury myse
Ha Ha! The latter for me. I've slept & eaten well, no booze for 48hrs, and have my aggressive determined TT style head on, to the point I've got the session open & minimised on my LT while I'm working, and I keep looking at it and chuckling in a "your mine grrr" kind of way...
Actually just checked again - Last FTP 20 min test ave heart rate was 185. This morning, same 20 min power output and ave heart rate was 169!
Nothing like evidencing progression! I've got 2 weeks abroad with no bike from Thursday though, hope I don't loose too much...
Ok , nearly recovered from my man flu . Plan to start again on Thursday , so 9 days off . Should I go back in the program or just carry on ? Was only on last session of week three , base training low
volume .
I'd probably do something like Black or Birch for a first ride back after flu see how you get on.
No pressure Kryton57, but the forum needs to know 😛
FTP is so painful it removes my desire to race for a week or more. We want the result in W/kg!
Does anyone have any tips for finding particular workouts on trainerroad? Am looking for a 'Russian Steps' session to do but can't find anything with that name in the workout library.
Nothing under that name but both Sufferfest Downward Spiral and Do As You're Told have that style of attack/rest
Have a look at something like Striped (there are a few versions.) I just searched for short duration anaerobic sessions. Or you could just use the workout creator to roll your own.
Is "Russian steps" the name of a workout or is it a style of interval? You can search for name or part of a name as well as filter on duration etc using the check-boxes on the left of the list.
Searching for "steps" brings up a list of workouts but "Russian" doesn't. I suspect if you are using a term used in another training software program it won't be recognised by TR unless it is a commonly accepted term like VO2Max.
An example of my understanding of Russian Steps:
15sec on 45sec off
30sec on 30sec off
45sec on 15sec off
60sec on 60sec off
45sec on 15sec off
30sec on 30sec off
15sec on 45sec off
30sec on 30sec off
45sec on 15sec off
60sec on 60sec off
Yes, that's pretty much Striped, though recoveries a bit longer.
I'd just knock up my own.
Thanks guys. Think I'll do one of the sufferfest ones again as I certainly CBA making it on the builder thing.
Plus I like pretending to be John Degenkolb.
To be Degenkolb you need to be able the shout really loudly despite absolutely nailing it in a sprint train!
Meh.
+ 2% FTP at least its up I guess, but less than I'd hoped for. Felt quite sick at the end and it was a good steady effort, except for the last couple of minutes where I held the bile back as I virtually chased MrBlobby with an effort to make sure I came over the line first next Sunday 😉
Good work 🙂
I'm beginning to wonder if I'm going to make it this weekend, Mrs B unwell. Might have to wait till Jan now.
Top effort sir! 8)
Mrs B unwell.
Open a can of soup, and strategically place a box of tissues before you leave...?
2% more power is a lot. Has the weight also increased by a similar % ?
Well I'm 4lbs over racing weight 12st 1 now, raced last year at 11st 10 so I'll improve my watts/kg after Christmas.
I also have a nagging sore throat/blocked ears and a spasming shoulder muscle which is receiving physio, I might be even better when that lot clears up 😀
adsh you can see my test on the STW TR Team thingy - you'll note I'm not an overly powerful rider anyway, but of course its what you do with it that counts.
Indeed - I should have put a smiley on the weight sentence, was only joshing.
Still think 2% is a lot. It took 3 months of intervals for me to gain 2% last summer. There was some testing anomaly (first test very good, second rather bad but I doubt it was out by more than 1%.
Are powermeters that accurate? my Kinetic inride claims +-2% which is +-5 watts on my current FTP.
Still think 2% is a lot.
Well I have a confession. I was in July 10% higher than now, but struggling to complete intervals after I self-nudged up the FTP to stretch myself, so suspect I was overdoing it. I was completing the workout with desperate pauses which weren't measured becuase I have TR on "activation" by cadence/power so it pauses while I stopped pedalling - so I cheated myself to a higher FTP. I am actually now 5% over my last "complete" 8 min test which was in March.
Having said that I was on my annual break in August, then ill with a virus / chest infection for the whole of October and 1st week November and not riding in that time. So to be stronger than March now - when I started 2015 races - with 3 tests/2 plans to go with which to grow my FTP things are looking ok for next March turning up stronger.
If only I'd thrown away my ego and followed TR I wouldn't have spent 4 months not completing plans because they were beyond my FTP.
So I guess in reality have now done 6 weeks properly I'm coming "back" to form.
The fact that it's not down I'd say is good considering where you are at and that it's only December.
Was wondering what we should run at the club tonight, so settled on Russian Steps, thanks for the inspiration stevious 😆 not sure the rest of the club enjoyed it mind
So I missed my Sunday TR session as I went riding instead. I'm doing the SS low volume along with some outside rides. I'm wondering tonight if I should do the planned Tuesday ride (1 hour) or make time and do the Sunday session (1.5hour). If I keep with the program it'll take me a little longer but I'll have done all of the sessions or I could just skip the session.
Currently following the schedule strictly I finish end of May but my big race (BCBR) isn't until July 6th so there's 5 weeks of slop in the planning. I was actually thinking at one point of doing two build phases but motivation was lacking.
Any thoughts which is the better option. I'm leaning towards doing the 1.5 hours and taking more time on the base section so build and specialty end up more lined up with my main race objective.
In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter. You missed a session indoors and rode outside.
You still rode, you still raised your heart rate, it's all good training.
Consistency is the key to getting and keeping fit, not one individual session.
Keep on with the plan as it is, today's session is there for a reason as is the next session.
In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter.
This. You're really just looking for a week by week gradual increase in duration and/or TSS. Just stick with the plan.
Was meant to be doing a FTP test and starting base training plan but sore throat and knackered so just did 30 min recovery, will do the test tomorrow or Thursday when I feel better. Couldn't see the point when I was run down as my result would be wrong
Glad you 'Enjoyed' the russian steps, Chef.
Got my new rollers today so spent 45 mins with a heart rate too high for my power output for 45 minutes instead. Still slightly terrified.
FFS, been sat here in my shorts 50 mins now waiting to crack on with tonights turbo but the boy is still not asleep. Got 90 mins to do so looking like a 10pm finish now 😡
Just popped on the [url= http://www.scosche.com/rhythm-plus-1 ]Scosche Rhythm+[/url]. A few rides in now and like it as a HRM. Wraps around the lower or upper arm and uses an optical sensor. Does BLE and ANT+. Rechargeable. Seems reliable. Works fine with TR on the Mac over BLE.
Isn't that what a baby monitor is for 😆 I just put sweajnr down for his sleep and head to the turbo. Then unless it sounds like WWIII is beginning he's on his own...
Just done the 8-min FTP test. FTP has gone up by a mighty 1% !! (FTP/Kg of 2.78) At least it's gone up, I was slightly concerned that it would fall as my legs have felt somewhat dead over the last week or two.
sn't that what a baby monitor is for
Well really hate having to get off the turbo to go sort them out so usually wait till I know they are asleep. No 1 looks to be settling but No 2 is up now. Arse!
Ah. I'm "lucky" in that sweajnr goes down fairly easily and doesn't stir for a couple of hours at least. Just so you don't think I get off too lightly though he does like to wake up at 5am.
Ha, I'll put up with a little getting to bed shenanigans for a fairly reliable 7am wake up! Anyway, turbo job done now. Couple of unexpected little rosettes for my efforts too, which is nice 🙂
Back on track tonight, Mills...held/exceeded target on all Vo2 max intervals 🙂
I'll be doing an FTP test at the weekend. Is it weird that I'm looking forward to it? I've bumped up my FTP setting manually by about 5% since the last test 5 or so weeks ago, but I'm quietly confident of wanging it up a bit higher on the test. I'm really enjoying this structured training lark. Thanks in part to you lot and reading threads like this. So thank you all. I hereby dedicate my forthcoming victory* in the Etape to you all.
* victory = hopefully not getting swept up or taken to hospital
Haze, sounds like you deserve one of these [img] 
[/img] 🙂
Gray, go smash it. Don't forget the sick bucket.
Had a bit of a disappointing FTP test tonight, I've done 3 tests now, an 8 minute and two 20 minute tests. Tonight's test was a 20 minute and gave an FTP of 177W which was a drop of ~2% when compared to the 8 minute test (181W) that I did at the start of the low volume sweet spot 1. FWIW the very first 20 minute test gave me an FTP of 171W so it was an increase of ~3% when comparing like for like.
The question is should I stick with the newest FTP and accept that I need to work on my endurance power or should I go with the old FTP (bear in mind that I completed all sweet spot exercises)?
Apologies if I'm rambling slightly. FTP tests hurt don't ya know!
I'd just stick with 181. Give it a week or so and if workouts scaled to that FTP end up being too hard then knock it back down a few watts. It's a field test to give a fairly rough estimate of the power you could sustain for an hour, it's not going to be super accurate.
everyone - what MrBlooby said but I refer you to my post on the prior page which explains what happened to me when I tried to outguess TR this year.
If you are finding things to easy or hard at the set FTP you can always increase / reduce the workouts effort by a few % on the front screen to compensate mid plan. I did my last two workouts prior to yesterday's FTP test at 102%. Turned out to be quite accurate guesstimate of my capable effort with a 2% increase in FTP shown.
Also (going only on common sense and limited experience - I'm not an expert at this stuff), 2% is absolutely naff-all in terms of measurement precision for something like this. I am very sure that lots of factors like recent sleep, recent exercise, recent eating, time of day, mood, caffeine intake, recent challenges to your immune system would all combine to induce much more than 2% test-retest variability on a measure like this. Some of these can be controlled, some not so much, of course.
In practice we're not going to do 5 FTP tests over a couple of weeks and take an average, so I think the whole "listen to your body and tweak over subsequent sessions" is the best answer. The only difficulty is knowing how hard it's supposed to feel. I've done a few lately where I've thought "Well, the instructions seem to imply that I ought to be struggling to finish this. I'm definitely working, but could definitely be working harder.", but I wasn't really sure whether the instructions were taking that tone just to make weaklings feel better! 🙂
After a few when pacing has been sorted then an 8-10W change seems pretty significant. FWIW I seem to remember that basing FTP on 20m tests alone is one of the FTP sins. No doubt fine for basing TR workouts and measuring change but not really a true measure of FTP. That said there is no way I'm going to do an hour FTP test.
@kryton57 You can also go in to your profile page and update your FTP there on a more permanent basis.
2% is absolutely naff-all in terms of measurement precision for something like this
[pedant]accuracy, not precision. it is better to be roughly right than precisely wrong. [/pedant]
FWIW I seem to remember that basing FTP on 20m tests alone is one of the FTP sins.
Really what you're getting from the 20 min test is a current 20MP (assuming you have pacing etc. sorted.) FTP is 60MP and we estimate it based on a percentage of 20MP (which may be ok for some and probably sufficient for most needs.)
What you'd likely want is a power profile of your MP for various duration and have workouts tailored based on that. E.g. Kaiser (3 min intervals) would be based on a percentage of your 3 minute max, not a percentage of estimated hour power based on a percentage of a 20 minute test power.
2% is absolutely naff-all in terms of measurement precision for something like this
[pedant]accuracy, not precision. it is better to be roughly right than precisely wrong. [/pedant]
Hmm, depends on what you think I meant, really. Worded poorly, I'll grant you, but what I meant was that 2% is a small fraction of something that will inevitably have a great deal of intrinsic variability as well as measurement error, and hence the precision to which we're stating things (when saying something like "my FTP changed from 181 W to 177 W" ) is too high considering the accuracy of the measurements. I agree though, that I could / should have just said "2% is absolutely naff-all in the context of the measurement accuracy for something like this". 🙂
It is useful if compared to a past test with exactly the same variables though.
My new TT helmet arrives tomorrow. Now for fit and scientific purposes I could wear it during my TR session couldn't I?
😀
look at 2% increase meaning you maybe plateaued, time to try something new, or increase volume
It is useful if compared to a past test with exactly the same variables though.
It's definitely useful to do these tests and compare, of course, and useful to try to control the variables as much as you can. However, some of the variables can't be perfectly controlled, and I strongly suspect that the consequence of that is more variability than +/- 2%. So all I'm saying really, is that seeing a change of e.g. 181 W to 177 W should be interpreted more as "no significant change" than "OMG, my FTP is going down". As dirtyrider said, maybe that suggests making a change if a marked improvement was expected.
In my case and in retrospect it wasn't, and in happy with the gain. I'll be doing 6x6min at my new ftp tonight so I'll be able to gauge from that hoe right I am.
I do however "feel" pretty fit aerobically, and will find out how I measure up during Sunday's race. Fwiw Strava's "fitness and freshness" has me above March 2015 when I started this season, but below August 2015, albeit bear in mind I was racing weekly during that period. So I reckon I'm in a pretty good place bearing in mind I'm approx 16 training weeks away from my first 2016 race proper.
One thing for sure is that my current recovery rate is remarkable. Even after the ftp test it took 2 hrs to feel a even a slight dull ache in my legs, which was gone by the morning. 12 months ago I'd be writing off the next day for anything involving my legs. I'm guessing my ability to process lactate has improved?
I seem to remember that muscle soreness isn't thought to be caused by lactate any more, rather small amounts of muscular damage.
You're just more 'ard than you used to be.
(Or maybe better at hydration/nutrition?)
2% is well within the daily variability of any power meter? I certainly wouldn't stress over it.
I also wouldn't be changing my FTP unless it was at least a 5w change.
Ah well, we've gone from trainer-roads calculations to Internet warrior based advice. All I know is i had best follow one of them consistently.
About the 2% thing - I don't think I'd manage to hit within 2% the target power for an interval on TR on purpose. Are folk able to do this?
Are folk able to do this?
Usually within a watt or two... I am a machine 😉 (e.g. [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/2697738-PAL-30-sweet-with-4x3 ]last turbo[/url])
I'm getting better at it, unless the drills have you doing gear/cadence changes or similar then typically for an interval up to FTP I'll vary no more than 10 Watts from the target and my average for the whole interval will be within 5 Watts of the target.
I find it takes practice and pedalling smoothly rather than chasing the power.
Palisade today. That was hard.. Don't tend to do the longer lesser efforts on the turbo, as get plenty of other miles in, so that's me off the turbo for a week for recovery until Sweetspot part 2.
However got to do some working out backwards from my first event next year to decide on next step and if to skip that. Although I do find the more sprint biased intervals from the xc plan relatively easy so maybe I should keep doing the sessions I don't like and are not particularly good at.
After all the talk about FTP increases I'll be interested if I've had any, find out in a week 🙂
Enjoy your week off! I've just started sweet spot 2 so its Ebbetts for me tonight.
After all the talk about FTP increases I'll be interested if I've had any, find out in a week
Reckon after Palisade you should have a pretty good idea with it alternating between riding just above and below threshold.
Well that went ok. 6 X 6 min OU's at my new FTP which trainer road lost but strava captured luckily, I felt so good I did the last two at 102% and 103% respectively.
I will enjoy the week off the turbo, just need to not do too much other riding as well..
mrblobby, I was well away from max HR and no issues with HR climbing so maybe there is some uplift but not sure what is normal for these sweetspot sessions as this is the first year I've used a turbo properly. I'm on the Trainerroad team so the sessions are there and I have been having a look to compare but everyone's different.
It was just hard from a mental standpoint, I am trying to change from being very sprint orientated to more endurance so the longer sessions are not normal and at mid forties it's taking its time to change 😉
Gah! ****!!
Just noticed that I've had the resistance set two stops higher than I've set in Trainerroad - idiot! 🙄 The power characterisation curves show about a 50% difference. I don't know how long it's been like that. Meant to be doing Ebbetts tonight, I think I'll see how it goes and just adjust the SW for this session and do another FTP test at the weekend.
I just did ebbets, struggled to spin up in time on the sprints though. Was meant to do FTP test on Tuesday but felt ill, figure I'll switch it for whatever I'm meant to do next tues - three days real riding now!
Whitestone - email TR support, they can and generally will fix it pretty quick.
I quite enjoyed ebbetts tonight. It was nice to be told to smash some sprints!
Although, saying that I kind of wish that those sprints were a little longer, 5s isn't that long to wind things up.
First spin after nine days off with fever/cold . Felt good , rested actually . Thing is how will I feel tomorrow .
Just did Elements of Style on the rollers followed by TBTITW on the turbo. Trainerroad makes sufferfest better.