Oh and just in case any turbo-curious people are reading this, this is my first dabble on a turbo in years. Previously I tried it and managed about 3 goes of half an hour before giving the horrid thing away. A smart trainer plus TrainerRoad really is a game changer in multiple dimensions. 90 minutes is no problem, and it's really quite rewarding.
Interested in what the high volume traditional base has as workouts etc. Any way of finding out without buying?
I don't think there is if you aren't signed up. I've a couple of "free intro months" to give away, you can have one of those if you want. I'll need to PM you with the link but that's at home so it will be tonight before I can do it.
Just looked at the High Vol traditional base. Week 1 is Warren, week 2 is Kolp, week 3 is Conness, week 4 is Gibbs. I.e. every session in those weeks is the same workout apart from the 8 minute test in week 1.
Rest week for me this week! Sweet spot 2 after that though...
Adsh Mail me and I can send you a screenshot if you like with description of trad base
The very last week of High Volume Trad Base (week 11 of 12) has you on the turbo for 14:30 hours 😯 I wonder how many people actually spend that much time on a turbo as I'd go spare.
Doing about 10hrs at the mo cos of the weather but commute will reduce that. Howsyourdad1 - e mail sent
About 10hrs is as much turbo as I can get in before Mrs Blobby starts complaining!
Wondering what people's experiences are with BLE devices? As good as using ANT+? Just got a new PM that does BLE so now iPad TrainerRoad is a nice option to have without any silly dongle.
Also anyone recommend a good cheapish BLE HRM? The 20 quid ones of Amazon any good?
I have a Wahoo Tickr. I'm not running it on BLE but I'm not that impressed to be honest. It drops out if I sit up on the bike and cross my arms across my chest(so basically stretching out during a rest period). Outside it gives false readings a lot in the wind (which I attribute to static off the jersey).
Sweamrs is also training so 5 hours on the turbo (we're sharing one) is about all I can achieve but that's about all I'm mentally capable of anyway I reckon.
I use ipad for trainerroad with Kickr and occasionally stages both on BLE with no issues or dropout. Have recently started using a Mio link arm/wrist HR and that runs through BLE perfectly and records on Garmin as well as Trainerroad app. I just need to get a BLE cadence then won't bother with Garmin on the turbo.
Use the Mio for commutte as well, can be a big of pain to make due in right place but when right no issues, but can't use on mtb as slips or misreads.
FTP test tonight...i'm currently undecided about doing either the 20min or 8min TR test or giving one of the tests on Zwift a go!
On top of that, I'm using my MTB on the turbo at the moment and only have a 36/26 set up. I have the resistance on the turbo wacked up but I'm a bit worried I'll still end up spinning out!!!!
Oh why is my life so hard 😆
Could barely hold z2 for 75minutes this morning. Another hour tonight and 2.5hrs tomorrow. Can the knowledge of how it feels to fail provide enough motivation.... The perils of starting a block too hard.
Oh why is my life so hard
Speak for yourself, I've been reduced to a diet of poached eggs and fizzy water to get through Brass Monkeys with any credibility.
Mary Austin tonight - with a pinched Rhomboid muscle, this isn't going to be pleasant.
Speak for yourself, I've been reduced to a diet of poached eggs and fizzy water to get through Brass Monkeys with any credibility.
I could happily live on poached eggs...not sure my guts would like it though
Mary Austin, looks a proper workout that!
Still at least another week before I start crash dieting for BM 😉
Trying for outdoor rides all this week, been too much turbo recently.
Me too Mr Blobby. My wife decided to tear her ACL playing Hockey so the resulting running around has left me a bit time crunched.
Luckily after tonight its rest week, I'm marshalling the CX regionals on Sunday so I'll ride there and back, sitting on may arse eating sandwiches and watching the racing in between. Might try to get out Friday lunchtime also.
Have we discussed the TrainerRoad BETA version yet? If not, I am in the only one that finds following training plans a bit crap now as you cant see which ones you've done? Or I am missing something somewhere?
No we haven't and yes I agree... It would be nice if as you went through a plan they coloured green or the like. With the potential to reset at the start of a training "season".
I'd also love to be able to compare stats from sessions. e.g I think my cadence has improved since last year but I'm currently basing that on eyeballing the same sessions from last year to this year.
happy and sad that it's not me then. The old version was much simpler to see what you were meant to be doing, I will definitely forget what I'm up to with the new one
Let TR know if it's not good, they are usually good with feedback.
On the recovery week now, did Pettit tonight - basically an hour of spinning as I wasn't too bothered by the drills. Did Black last night which is basically like a road ride with the power levels continually shifting - you are only at any given power level for three minutes max. Andrews on Thursday night then I'll see what the weekend's like and whether to do Gibbs.
Then on to the next 8 minute test and Mid volume part 2.
Do any of you guys find it tough to sleep after a turbo session? Generally I'm finished by 8ish then eat and shower but often can't get to sleep. Can't go earlier as putting kiddy to bed.
Varies for me but it's more to do with how much thinking I'm doing when I go to bed, If I'm mulling over a long running problem/activity then it can be hours before I drop off, if I just empty my mind (a thimble-full is all that's there) then I can be asleep in minutes.
Oh, that was tough.
*cries*
I need to eat now, DT78 I won't be in bed until 11pm.
I just did Tallac. Off to bed soon. I often struggle to get to sleep after an evening session, so do prefer early morning ones, but that doesn't always work out.
Sweajnr goes to bed at 7; I try to be on the turbo at 7:30 so I'm done by 8:30pm. That gives me an hour and a half to wind down afterwards which seems to work okay. I'm up at 6 and in work by 7:30 so really can't contemplate doing a session in the morning despite previous discussions on here about the merits of exercising early.
Huffaker for me tonight, finished just before 10pm, protein shake with banana and kiwi followed by a quick shower then on the computer to look at all the numbers.
Eyes are getting heavy now, should go to bed really...
I'm often up at 4.30, on the turbo by about 5, out the door at 6.20. Works pretty well for me, and leaves the evening free for family / eating / relaxing. This week though, Sunday's ride didn't happen until early afternoon, and I didn't get great sleep on Sunday night (small child), so early Monday didn't happen, so then that was bumped to Monday evening, and I don't really want to do an early morning turbo the day after an evening one so that's wanged me onto an evening turbo schedule Mon-Tues-Weds this week. Probably rest tomorrow then big commute on Friday morning... woohoo! I'm actually really enjoying this training lark overall.
My sleep is only really effected if I totally destroy myself with a race intensity effort. I can pass out quickly but will wake up with killer calf muscle ache around 4 hours later.
Most odd, stretching doesn't seem to help. Happens from training occasionally and racing most of the time.
My sleep is only really effected if I totally destroy myself with a race intensity effort.
I was awoken last night in all kinds of muscular pain. Mind you, I had a flu jab in the morning, and did Mary Austin - 8 x 10's average @FTP or 4 x 20's with 1min rest over 90 mins - until 9pm last night.
That was a bizarre effort - intervals 6 & 7 had me really struggling - in a dribbly kind of way - to get through the muscular / lactate pain but immediately after the workout and still until know I feel great!
I raced an evening Summer series again this year. The races started at 1930 and usually lasted about 80mins. I certainly didnt sleep very well those nights but I put it down to caffeine usage as I don't tend to consume caffeine after 9am normally unless im racing!!
Anyway - I went for the Zwift FTP test last night but probably wont do that one again. The average power for the 20mins on Zwift read about 20 watts lower than the average power that my Garmin recorded for the same 20mins.
My FTP came out at 3w lower than my previous test and i'm in 2 minds about how to take this! My last test was on a Wattbike, at a different time of the day (11am as opposed to 7pm). My last test also had 4 other team mates testing at the same time and we could all see each others stats on a big screen, therefore it had an element of competiton so I think the results were a little inaccurate.
On top of that, the info I got after the test didnt seem to reduce to 20min average by 5%. If it did then I've had a 5% increase in FTP over the last 4.5 weeks so am pretty happy I guess.
3.78w/kg isn't too bad to be starting the Base phase is it?
Will quite often get off the turbo around 10 and need to be in bed by 11. I try and get the more intense part of the workout out the way early. Have in the past really struggled with sleep, think I'm just use to it now.
Never good sleep after evening race though, especially if it went badly (chewing it over in my mind!)
Quick question, I have completed the FTP on Zwift and a couple of workouts on there and TrainerRoad but as of yet I am undecided on which one to stick with and undertake properly. I like the social/fun side of Zwift but think I prefer the training aspect of TR.
Do I drop one, if so should I stick with TR, or just keep both and use TR for workout and Zwift for a 'fun' turbo ride?
Quick question, I have completed the FTP on Zwift and a couple of workouts on there and TrainerRoad but as of yet I am undecided on which one to stick with and undertake properly. I like the social/fun side of Zwift but think I prefer the training aspect of TR.Do I drop one, if so should I stick with TR, or just keep both and use TR for workout and Zwift for a 'fun' turbo ride?
Personally, I think I'll be using TR for anything structured and Zwift for the fun element. I'm not sure that Zwift offers enough to me personally to pay the fees...that may change one day, especially if and when I replace my turbo with a smart trainer (I think Zwift is essentially meant for these).
I found the power fluctuations on Zwift to be too much for me. Not having a 3sec smoothing function meant that I was constantly chasing the numbers which meant I speant more time looking at my Garmin than at the monitor...that seems pretty pointless to me!!!!
Don't Zwift do structured TR like workouts now too?
Yeah they do - which is what I followed last night when I did their version of the FTP test...as I say though, for some reason, the power seemed to fluctuate quite a lot and seemed way off compared to my Garmin (using a Stages PM rather than virtual power so I'd assume they should be almost identical).
I personally think Zwift would be amazing used with a smart trainer, but I dont have one at the moment so it seems a bit wasted on me
Curious that. Are both using ANT+ or is the Garmin using ANT+ and Zwift BLE?
Ummm....I assumed both are using ANT+ but I cant be totally sure!
I'm pretty confident they're both ANT+ as the little dongle logo does its thing when I'm connecting/pairing the PM and HR
Personally, I think I'll be using TR for anything structured and Zwift for the fun element. I'm not sure that Zwift offers enough to me personally to pay the fees...that may change one day, especially if and when I replace my turbo with a smart trainer (I think Zwift is essentially meant for these).
This is my thinking. Although if I got a 2nd ANT+ stick I could run the TR workout on Zwift, best of both worlds? I have seen a few others do this so know it works
This is my thinking. Although if I got a 2nd ANT+ stick I could run the TR workout on Zwift, best of both worlds? I have seen a few others do this so know it works
I have a spare laptop and had a spare stick (i gave it to our team mechanic). If I still had the spare stick I think I'd have run both together...TR for the actual workout and Zwift for entertainment value.
Maybe when TR release their Android version...
Was meant to get out for a short sharp XC ride but work put an end to that plan. So a version of [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/20748-Blood ]Blood[/url] for me tonight (tweaked to take out the easy bits 😉 ). Will make a change from the long steady stuff. I might need the sick bucket!
Lawks amercy that looks, erm, fun.
Well Blood was a bit bonkers. I thought the app had broken as it seemed to be constantly beeping! Had to abandon as it was just too dynamic for my old diesel engine. Went and did a 4x5 with some sprints instead. My poor effort [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/2669591-Blood-modified- ]here[/url].
Interesting test at this time of year though. Could be quite an interesting session to do on a Neo or Kickr in erg mode.
Impressive attempt and far better than mine would look!! Agree about the erg mode though. By the time I'd got resistance / gearing / cadence settled for a required power in that (I'm using an old trainer and a power2max pm) you'd be onto the next one.
It was a bit like that, power changes every 5 or 10 seconds for the first few minutes, just couldn't keep up trying to get the right gear/cadence/power combination. I think not that well suited to the turbo (or me on the turbo anyway!)
A completely opposite kind of session for me - Andrews. Basically spin for 90 minutes.
Might try and find a short threshold or VO2max session for the weekend to get used to some hard work before the 8 minute test on Tuesday - Charybdis looks the job.
Darwin for me, week 4 of Sweet Spot 2.
Feels like the last couple of weeks have stepped up a notch, looking forward to easy week but may try and delay it a while longer into Christmas.
I've been signed off for a week.
The worst thing is I've had accuse puncture and now I'm in agony.
Hi all,
It's time for me to do another FTP test. Last time I did the 8min one, this time I fancy doing the 20min one (just for a change).
Any reason why I shouldn't mix up the FTP tests?
Cheers
Hi all , what do you do when you get ill? Trained on Tuesday but have a stinking cold . Do you just carry on when feeling better or go back a session when following a plan? Only on trad base low volume 1, but was about to start the rest week
Traditional advice is cold above the neck train at reduced intensity, below the neck rest.
Viral infections carry an increased risk of cardiomyopathy - life changing. If in doubt rest.
Anything with a sore throat then forget it.
Remember watching a documentary with some teenage girl who was an avid runner - trained with a sore throat and then got that 'chronic fatigue syndrome' - and then just climbing the stairs was a big effort for her.
Sore throat and very snotty 🙂 do I carry on where I left off when fit and ready?
Last year I ignored a throat/chest infection and lost 4 months winter training to illness, and ended up asthmatic (EIB).
Rest, get rid of the illness. When better re-do and FTP test as it will have changed. I reckon I comprimised a lot of my training last year by not doing so, ploughing on regardless and not being able to complete VO2max intervals which is detrimental to the workouts - silly boy.
Sorry that should have read 2 months ^^
Any reason why I shouldn't mix up the FTP tests?
You'll be measuring something different, so lacking consistency. Interesting exercise to do both though and see if you get different numbers. I suspect I'd get a higher number from the 20 test than the 8 right now, probably the other way around in summer.
I've been signed off for a week.
The shoulder? What a pain. Prognosis?
Any reason why I shouldn't mix up the FTP tests?You'll be measuring something different, so lacking consistency. Interesting exercise to do both though and see if you get different numbers. I suspect I'd get a higher number from the 20 test than the 8 right now, probably the other way around in summer.
Yeah exactly this...
I did a 20min FTP test on a Wattbike about 5 weeks ago and my result had dropped 15w since my previous test. I then did a 20min test on my Turbo on tuesday this week using my race bike and stages power meter.
My power had dropped another 3w however, the conditions and settings etc were completely different so the result isn't really comparable
The shoulder? What a pain. Prognosis?
Luckily I'm in the Sweet Spot rest week, So I'll just defer the Build plan FTP test for a few more days - a week on Tuesday. All being well I'll just train over the xmas week to make it up whereas I wasn't planning to before.
Yes. Hmm how can I make this a short story....
I have spasming Rhomboid, and for years my upper trap spasms & knots after about 90mins riding - after 7 hrs of last years Bonty it was so bad I couldn't hold the bars and had to retire.
So I saw a physio last night. after an assessment, apparently I'm defective from birth in that my torso twists slightly to the right with regard to the direction my legs are going. When riding a bike and holding the bars, I'm affectively forcing my torso straight - away from its "natural" albeit defective direction. So, when I ride my L/H shoulder is "pushing" the bars in an attempt to wrestle my torso around to the right to compensate, hence stressing all the muscles in my upper back.
So I had some soft tissue work, and some acupuncture last night, apparently 6-10 weeks of work should fix the Rhomboid, but in the Physio's medical jargon everything to the left of my spine is "...a bit of a mess..."
He says I may need continual physio to address issues as I ride, but won't be able to tell until the current issue is fixed to see how I cope afterward.
As an aside it never ceases to amaze me how these people know a lot about your life just from the prognosis; You sleep on your R/H side don't you? (Yes). You sit on the L/H side of the sofa right? (Yes) You most often drive with only your right hand on the wheel right? (Yes). And some others!
I'm going to start a plan as of next week. Injury means I'm only doing one more cross race this year, and to be honest as long as I finish (need the result for a league placing), I'm not fussed with how well I do to the extent of focussing on anaerobic stuff. I think my whiplash will have more of an affect than my fitness, plus the crash has knockd my competitive drive slightly. So its time to start prepping for the xc season. I'm going to be doing the sweet spot base.
Question: I dont now have time for both sweetspot bases and builds. Not sure when the first Welsh series race is, last year was beggining of march. So I have ~12 weeks. Any thoughts on whether to just do the two bases, to do one base and one build, both builds?
I'm inclined to do the latter, I'm coming off some fairly intense cx focused racing and training followed by a couple of weeks of injury induced low activity. If I'm going to do one base and one build, start with the first or second base block?
Maybe check with trainerroad - there's a "Chat now" feature on the site when they are in the office and the response is pretty quick, also Trevor Duise posts on here so he might come up with something as well. I suppose it depends on where you feel your fitness is at the moment and whether you'd get most benefit out of more base work or would be better off aiming at more specific stuff. If I were in your position I'd do the second base block and a build.
If I were in your position I'd do the second base block and a build
That was my initial thought too. plus two weeks off over xmas so should be able to get a fair amount of outside riding done 🙂
So which build plan shall I move on to? As the specialty afterward would be XCO, I'd normally default to short power build.
But to address a weakness and to favor the TT's I'll be doing (which are secondary to XC) I'm thinking sustained power build.
Thoughts?
Which has more volume? At this time of year I'd go sustained power assuming it focuses on more duration and longer intervals, for XC or TT.
[i]You'll be measuring something different, so lacking consistency. Interesting exercise to do both though and see if you get different numbers. I suspect I'd get a higher number from the 20 test than the 8 right now, probably the other way around in summer.[/i]
Cheers for the replies. I thought this would be the answer since the training is working with numerous variables.
Another question then. Do people choose their style of FTP test based on personal preference e.g. some might find the 8 minute test 'nicer' to do, or, for specific considered training needs?
Cheers....
Fek me! Charybdis 30 - had to dial down the intensity by 8% halfway through the first interval as there was no way I could hold that power for the duration. Definitely two easy days before the next 8 minute test.
@sunnydaze I've only done the 8 minute test so far as it's been the one indicated in the plans that I've been following, the notes do say you can swap it for the 20 minute test if you wish. So it seems that even TR don't favour one over the other.
It appears I've got a bit out of synch in my blocks. This week 5 hours of Z2 (70% FTP) on Monday and Tuesday meant I could barely hold Z2 at the end and needed 2 days off. A further 4hrs Z2 yesterday and today and I could barely do the family walk this afternoon.
Turns out I never really rested last week (440 TSS) so I've done 5 weeks at average 475 TSS. I presume that might give me enough accumulated fatigue to really need to rest next week?
TSS really is a bit stingy when it comes to Z2 efforts.
Crikey - my weekly TSS tends to be just below 300 but I usually do rides outside at the weekend rather than sit on the turbo so the long steady Z2/3 rides that have quite high TSS scores get missed.
90 minutes of Perkins today, completely disgusting weather outside and feeling a little run down after an unusually stressful week. NP of 184 and aTSS of 73, so,hopefully I'll be up to running 20 odd K of trails tomorrow.
At this time of year I'd go sustained power assuming it focuses on more duration and longer intervals, for XC or TT.
Yea I think you are right - I think then XCO to take me to my first race in March, then in between races short power build March to May, and XCM to deliver me to the Bonty May to July.
Done nearly 4 weeks of sweetspot mid volume, tried to do one of the sessions today on the road coming back from a longer than usual commute. Just couldn't do it, traffic, bends junctions etc. I also don't like looking at a screen too much on the road either.
What today did show me though was how much improvement I've made in ability to hold a power for longer and having a much better feel for how far to push. Most probably a mental thing, or certainly an element of it.
However was even more surprised when towards the end of an hour ride thought I have a very quick sprint over a railway bridge and hit my highest peak power ever and it didn't kill the legs 🙂
A pretty straightforward custom 5x5 here. All seems to be going worryingly well, good numbers etc. Mostly worrying as it's only December and still a long way from any proper racing. No colds, no injuries other than the usual niggles, none of the usual winter weight gain, even the kids are sleeping well. Something's got to go wrong soon 😕
Just couldn't do it, traffic, bends junctions etc. I also don't like looking
I tend to use the local 10 and 25 courses for that sort of thing. Might be worth checking out.
3hrs of road in the dark and drizzle or something equivalent on the turbo (maybe [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/103929-Kennedy-Peak-1 ]Kennedy Peak+1[/url].) Neither is an perticularly inviting prospect for tonight 😕
Often wonder how much more you'd get out of a winter's training living somewhere with a half decent climate.
I'm really struggling with motivation at the moment, partially the weather and being busy conspiring to keep me away from outdoors cycling, partially a crash knocking my confidence and reduced the training urge, partially just being full on hectic in work (theoretically working now) and partially going from racing every weekend to not having raced since 1st Nov and only having one race left. Whatever the reason I'm not even motivated enough to finish work outs. I'll do an hour of something this evening. Almost got everything sorted to build up mtb again so that should give me some inspiration.
Recommendations for a moderate to hard but interesting hour or so? Think I will either do Gould or one of the reduced amplitude Billats
Ferrals, not good te lack of motivation, it happens for all sorts of reasons. Been racing on and off for a long time, had some big accidents leading to time off the bike, too much work and general life getting in the way but have always come back to the reason why I ride. I enjoy it.
The competative urge ebbs and flows as does the drive to train, don't be hard on yourself. When the mtb is built up just go for a ride and don't record it, just ride.
mrblobby, I'll have a look re local TTs but in winter the main use for the road bikes is comutting. May do a few TTs next year though so could be a sneaky heads up.
Did Brasstown this morning as the last of the sweet spot 1 rest week. I was utterly bored to tears! I've absolutely no idea how people can do the traditional base on a turbo if it's just session after session of that.
Managaed to do my TR session tonight and couldn't believe how easy it felt. I even got off the bike at one point to check that the tyre was inflated properly and the roller was up against the tyre correctly.
When the session finished and I was looking at it on the TR website, it turns out that I've managed to change the turbo model that I'm using so the power figures were no doubt way out 😳
Almost a good excuse to start looking at a power meter for the bike 😀
I was utterly bored to tears! I've absolutely no idea how people can do the traditional base on a turbo if it's just session after session of that.
Went for a modified [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/2686502 ]Kennedy Peak[/url] tonight, two and a half hours of z2/z3 blocks. Netflix keeps me just about sane 😉
I've not done more than 90 minutes yet, I'm not sure that I want to. 90 is OK as long as there are interesting intervals, but at the moment I'm doing all my longer stuff outside. Going to be harder when the weather gets properly bad though.
Just renewed my subscription for the winter, gonna do some random ones to get back used to the turbo before doing the 8/20 test.