Are you planning on doing the 20 minute or the 2x8 min test? The biggest key to your first FTP test is to not go out too hard, which is especially true on the 2x8 version of the test. Your mind tends to play tricks on you during the first 2 minutes regarding how short/long 8 minutes actually is. You want to start strong, but control your effort so that power doesn't slowly drop off as you go through the interval.
Regarding Sweet Spot vs Traditional Base, it's largely up to how your season is laid out and whether or not you have time for the additional block of training. Check out this post on deciding between the two from Coach Chad: [url= https://trainerroad.iljmp.com/1/ssvstraditional ]Sweet Spot Vs. Traditional Base[/url]
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[url= https://trainerroad.iljmp.com/1/forum ]Professional Mtb Racer & Community Manager at TrainerRoad - Cycling's Most Effective Training Tool[/url]
Anyone having issues with the trainerroad website? Getting 'too many redirects' all other websites fine..
Anyone having issues with the trainerroad website? Getting 'too many redirects' all other websites fine..
Been a bit slow at times, had to stop loading the page then immediately refresh to get a page to load.
Running ping and traceroute is a bit awkward as it looks like their firewall drops ICMP packets
I'm currently working my way through the mid volume sweet spot base plan. I've been replacing the 2h30 trainer sessions with 2-3h sessions on the road and so far it seems to be going well.
Next week I've got the week off work and I'm thinking of sacking off TR for the week and getting 3 or 4 good length Z2 base rides in instead if the weather's not too bad.
Would this be likely to have any adverse effects on my training?
Not, more likely the opposite. For most people getting outside and actually riding as opposed to banging out sessions refreshes the mind and helps them cope with the riggers of the turbo.
Opinion given knowing nothing about your training plans but assumed that sweet spot and November means no racing in the near future
Guys just got myself a set of rollers. I want to start using trainer road.
What is the cheapest option for me to set it up?
I need to buy a speed sensor, Do I need a compatible garmin or can I hook it up to my laptop directly some way?
Cheers
No racing for me until next year now, I'm training towards doing some 12h races next year so aiming to build up a good base during the winter.
I'm hoping that a good few longer base rides during the winter months will help with it.
8 minute test part 2 completed at the appropriate res. level. Enjoyed that. Will that change?
@howsyourdad1 you didn't ride hard enough if you enjoyed it 😀
@robbie for rollers your need a rear wheel speed sensor and optionally a cadence sensor. You don't need a Garmin as your laptop is effectively the head unit. I seem to remember that decathlon had bike ANT+/Bluetooth sensors. Your laptop will also need ANT+/Bluetooth receiver. For laptop also read, iPad, tablet, smartphone
I spent 45 minutes riding the new Do As Your Told Sufferfest film tonight, lots of explosive sprints, which on rollers is pretty hard to do. Felt quite easy so either I had good legs of the FTP needs increasing.
@swedishchef I enjoyed the feeling afterwards is perhaps a better description !
I made my first custom workout (Sprint_OverUnder)
I then failed to complete my own workout 😳
It was essentially bear creek with a longer warm-up and then with 1min sprints at 130ftp before the overunders. Into the third set I caved. In my defence, its been a long day and I knew I had work stuff to do for a 9am meeting so that was playing on my mind.
Well that was a humiliating evening. Last ftp test was mid-july about a week after I'd done 7 days of riding and was 294 which was my best ever. Not really ridden a lot since mid-september and nothing for last two weeks. Started the test at 95% but quickly realized that wasn't going to work so stopped; spun for 10 minutes and then reset the workout. New ftp is 246. My dream of being 300+ by next June suddenly seems a long wayaway. Wondering if other people have had such big swings between on form and off form as I need to gain 20% just to get back to my pb. I knew I'd lost fitness but even so. Power2max meter so don't think anything has changed there but will calibrate before next ride just to make sure.
Yep. I lost 12% over 4 weeks with a virus.
I did Jepsom tonight, that last 8 minutes was tough, maybe I should have kept to the 320w sprints rather than shooting at 450... but I felt I got a lot out of it. I wasn't in difficulty with the FTP intervals so I'm wondering whether I can inch it up a couple of watts...
Ebbetts tonight, first one at the new FTP which seems much more like my limit.
I was estimating around 10% higher than previous taking the switch to a left sided PM into account, felt about right as I was sailing pretty close by the last interval.
So either the virtual power curve is marginally high for my trainer, or I'm about 45-55% left-right. Or more likely a bit of both...
Carson tonight (postponed from last night as I rode to work yesterday knowing that with today's crap forecast I'd have a rest beforehand today). Didn't find it at all hard other than trying to pedal at 75rpm!
Joined the STW team as a bit of encouragement to keep going with a plan this winter. Doing the sweetspot mid volume, missing out the steady rides as I ride most days and the turbo is a fill in to get more intensity in winter. Focusing on form, in particular cadence, is going to be good for me as trying to get more leg speed. 75 is ok for me, 120 is interesting !!
75 felt like an absolute crawl to me, it was horrible! Not really surprising though considering that my natural cadence seems to be 95-100rpm!
hi all, just finished whorl, my first real session after 2 ftp tests.
Not sure how i feel really, should i be exhausted and seeing stars? Was not that difficult and i found that i was a comfortable 10-15 over the recommended power level. Just loking for a little guidance on intensity level etc.
martininsweden on the singletrack group.
thanks!
i usually ignore the cadence drills, as they are way below was i naturally spin at - i just look to hit the figures, watts is watts
whorl?
Whorl consists of an hour & 15 minutes of aerobic Endurance work spent between 60-75% FTP.
thats why you found it easy, you should be able to ride all day at 60% of FTP
id only do whorl if i was doing a large amount of hours per week, its almost a recovery ride
oh ok. its part of low volume bass training so i guess is more of a intro into the technique. thats good to hear thanks
Use the TSS and IF scores to determine the hardness of the session.
A TSS of 100 means riding at your FTP for one hour, so max and pretty much unachievable. Anything that's over 85 and 60 minutes in length is going to feel damn hard.
Thanks @swedishchef . With regard to the power output though, should I be aiming to match it exactly , or is 10-15 over ok . I.e that 10-15 over felt comfortable to do .
Just done Eclipse - that was hard! Didn't quite make it to the end of the last interval.
One thing I've found this year is that I'm able to hold my power output within a Watt or two of the target power - obviously there's some fluctuation going on (I've got 3 second smoothing applied) but last year I'd be varying by up to ten Watts. @howsyourdad - if your FTP is right then you should be aiming to keep close to the target Wattage as the different levels work different parts of your system, not every session is eyeballs out 😛
I vary by about 10 (no smoothing) just altering cadence by 2 gives a big swing. Getting better at holding it though.
Givens plus three for me today, but I stupidly decided to see if I could go all out on the last set instead of keeping to recommended power which ruined the set.
Why is everyone doing intervals/anaerobic in the middle of winter?
If you're doing the base training plan but doing the entire session at 10-15 watts more than required then you aren't really doing base training anymore. (On the assumption that your FTP is correct). IMO
It's kinda a no mans zone, slightly lower than sweet spot, but harder than what's specified for traditional base.
Whether it makes a difference, I don't know, but I assume the coaches at TR have set those levels for a reason.
Why is everyone doing intervals/anaerobic in the middle of winter?
Because we work 40+ hours a week and can't train like pro's so interval training is a more effective and efficient way to train.
[quote=adsh ]Why is everyone doing intervals/anaerobic in the middle of winter?
first round of soggy bottom XC series in 6 weeks.
Ok so sounds like I should either up my ftp a little or drop back on the power? Thing is that it was saying to have a cadence of 90 I think , and to get that and keep the power output exactly as they say was difficult
adsh - Member
Why is everyone doing intervals/anaerobic in the middle of winter?
[b]CYCLOCROSS!![/b].
That's mt reason anyway, last raced on 1st and not racing till 29th so doing a little two week traing block at them moment.
The thing I'm struggling with is how to structure my training after my last race ( 20th December) to get the best prep for the xc season. Assuming the first regional race will be early March, and assuming that I just ride for fun over Xmas I'll have 2 months. So one month sweet spot one moth build or just base and accept I won't be at peak for the first race of the year but then build through March/April and be ready for May/June? I'm thinking given the bigger gaps between xc races rather than cross I'll do a speciality plan through the season. A key event for me is the national at fforest fields as being under 9 stone I'm a good climber
jam bo - Member
first round of soggy bottom XC series in 6 weeks.
Might come down to do some of these as no winter series in Wales this year.
It takes a bit of practice to find the resistance/gearing/cadence that matches a particular Wattage but even so some power levels are not easy to get to particularly with regards cadence. I'm assuming that you weren't in bottom gear?
I've an old turbo trainer but TR have its power curves so I played around a bit and settled on one that let me use the full range of gears and get something that felt OK, even so some of the lower power levels aren't easy to achieve with a sensible cadence. You might need to do this.
What do people watch whilst on the turbo?
So, I've departed the Sufferfest videos because following a TR plan. Yesterday, 2 hour session on the turbo and had UCI youtube on and some music..was ok but became a bit dull...
What do people watch? Any inspirations out there? Or, is that the nature of the longer sessions and I just have to suck it up?
What do people watch? Any inspirations out there? Or, is that the nature of the longer sessions and I just have to suck it up?
either nothing - just music. or cycling on youtube; CX or classics. sometimes on mute with music.
Not done any of the really long steady sessions - too much like the old school "get on turbo and just pedal" style sessions. Up to 90mins I've not bothered with anything, it's been a case of settle in for the next X minutes then relax or change cadence or whatever.
Generally, it's best not to think! It's not riding outside and comparing (and moaning about it as if it is) is missing the point.
Alan partridge audio book at the moment
What do people watch whilst on the turbo?
i just surround myself in mirrors and take inspiration from my pain face.
Last winter I got through all of Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, and Homeland. This winter Prison Break and about to start Game of Thrones. Put Stages on phone and prop against screen. Have been known to do longer workouts to
Just finished the first series of 24. Seen it before but makes good turbo viewing as it's fairly fast paced. Might do Homeland again once I've exhausted all series.
Looking to get back on the turbo this week. Has anyone done or looked at the gravity plan?
[i]i just surround myself in mirrors and take inspiration from my pain face.[/i] 😀
Think I might try some box sets - good idea. Cheers...
What do people watch whilst on the turbo?
Time on the turbo should be short, sharp and focused IMO. You shouldn't have time to fanny around watching stuff 😀 It's been discussed a lot before but I am not a big believer in doing long, low intensity sessions indoors.
^Diametric opposite. I'm hoping to do 8hrs quality Z2 base this week. No time to get out on the road until the weekend and no point (for me) in doing HIT at this stage so turbo and Netflix it is.
I thought that's what sweet spot base was for. IMO if you have 8 hours free to sit on a turbo you should be outdoors.
Oh and I'm in the Rock/eurotrance in headphones focused session camp.
It's been discussed a lot before but I am not a big believer in doing long, low intensity sessions indoors.
At the risk of re-opening the discussion... 🙂
These days I don't differentiate much between indoor and outdoor road. It's more a case of what's on the plan and can I get outside to do it. If I can't get out then I'll do it on the turbo. Even if that is 3hrs of z2. Think there's more benefit from doing that sort of work outside (specificity mostly) but that's not always an option.
Just did Bear Creek 30 in the gym at work.
Have to manually match the power with what TR says but jebus it was hard.
I still feel sick
Even if that is 3hrs of z2.
Im quite happy to do 2 or 3hrs of Z2 on the turbo but I find I struggle with comfort of the derrier after about 50mins.
Im quite happy to do 2 or 3hrs of Z2 on the turbo but I find I struggle with comfort of the derrier after about 50mins.
Can be a problem here too. Took a lot of messing about to get the right short pad, saddle and setup and now I'm usually fine up to 2hrs. Starts to get a bit sore on the sit bones after that. Sometimes will change shorts mid session if they are getting very sweaty too.
I'm tempted to experiment with an Adamo on the turbo. They are quite padded for sit bones and have the big pressure relief thing in the middle.
Be interested to hear how others cope with long turbo work....?
It was my first long session and I put a thread up else where as a result of getting seriously numb nuts...when I come to do that length of time again I'll have to change something to avoid numbness..
Re indoor/out...everybody's reason for turbo work is contextual...
Over 90 minutes, even on the rollers, it's a case of HTFU I'm afraid.
my nads got hot today. all the fun of the fair
thought that's what sweet spot base was for. IMO if you have 8 hours free to sit on a turbo you should be outdoors.
I'm willing to put the time in for trad and solid base. I can do this if I'm efficient with time. 0530 start for 1.5hrs then an hour when back from work. In this weather that does not mean screwing arounf with lights and winter clothing. The aim is quality time in zone - surely how it's achieved is utterly immaterial?
2/3 hours of Z2 indoors on a turbo, when the weather isn't that bad outdoors, still warm, bit windy, but quite dry
you must be crackers, does no one ride outdoors anymore, just for the sake of riding a bit?
I find much more than an hour on the roadie and I suffer with numb bits. I've bought an adamo for exactly the same reason as you (and for longer tts). Yet to try it as I need another seat post to swap straight over with minimal faff.
For longer work in the past I've used my hard tail which Is more upright and has a lot more comfy saddle
I'm 5 weeks into the Short Power Build plan and i'm definitely feeling stronger.
Did Foerster this morning https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/2573900-Foerster
That was an ugly one!
you must be crackers, does no one ride outdoors anymore, just for the sake of riding a bit?
I would love to ride outdoors for 2 or 3 hours. the main reason for me not doing so is mainly due to where I live and the roads around here. I get home from work at around 6 which realistically means 7 before I get the chance to get out. I then have Heathrow and London rush hour traffic to contend with which kind of ruins my motivation
The aim is quality time in zone - surely how it's achieved is utterly immaterial?
Think there is a benefit to road as the feel of the turbo can be very different. You're training your body to become very efficient at the specific action of pedalling. On a turbo the action will be subtly different. If you can't get out though I reckon it's still worth putting the z2 hours in on the turbo.
you must be crackers, does no one ride outdoors anymore, just for the sake of riding a bit?
Range on the baby monitor is unfortunately quite limited 🙂
Over 90 minutes, even on the rollers, it's a case of HTFU I'm afraid.
If you can't get out though I reckon it's still worth putting the z2 hours in on the turbo.
I'm hoping to do 8hrs quality Z2 base this week.
Indoors, I'd argue that over 90 minutes isn't a case of HTFU, it is more a case of "be smarter".
What do you guys hope to achieve from longer than 1.5 hour Z2 turbo sessions that Z3 or even Z4 work with the correct recovery wouldn't give you?
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Tons of Z2 is fine if you are at 20+hours a week and genuinely need the volume but for the average person long Z2 turbo sessions aren't as efficient a use of time as other alternatives IMO. Save your sanity too! If you do them for blindly following a "plan" then this most likely is expecting a 3 hours [i]outdoor[/i] Z2 ride which is very different in terms of actual time spend in Z2 and other benefits like the specificity of saddle on bum time and the actual cycling aspects of cycling 😀
2/3 hours of Z2 indoors on a turbo, when the weather isn't that bad outdoors, still warm, bit windy, but quite dry
you must be crackers, does no one ride outdoors anymore, just for the sake of riding a bit?
😆 Can't agree more. You guys don't know how lucky you are to have that amount of free time!
does no one ride outdoors anymore, just for the sake of riding a bit?
Difficult with a 9-5 and rubbish lights. turbo in the week, ride and race on the weekend. I've not done any base on the turbo, beyond half hour recovery-esque spins.
I also think intervals are far better done on the turbo, more repeatable. I'll be doing chimneys this evening
None of my time on the rollers is spent specifically training at Z2, (unless I'm trying to sweat some cold out of my body like today. Homers Nose at a TSS of 42)
I do however spend up to 2 hours on them.
Rubbish lights isn't even an excuse 😆 20
Quid on ebay gets you as much light as you need
It's not free time, it's sleep time.
I'd like to achieve 275W (3.8w/kg) at Z2 to help me perform better at 12hr events and do the Ridgeway Double in under 14hrs. Currently at 250W (3.4w/kg)so a tough ask.
I'm not sure that chart takes account of training the different fat burning energy pathway?
I'd like to achieve 275W (3.8w/kg) at Z2 to help me perform better at 12hr events and do the Ridgeway Double in under 14hrs. Currently at 250W (3.4w/kg)so a tough ask.
Big ask if you're already trained. Lots of long slow fasted rides?
How much difference do you think training fasted makes to your performance?
I always do my turbo sessions before breakfast. It fits in with my day better and I find it more comfortable than having a meal in my belly at the same time. Assume its good for consistency if nothing else.
How much difference do you think training fasted makes to your performance?
Rate it highly, I do all my morning runs and bike sessions up to 2 hours on coffee alone. I feel much better for it, both whilst training and after it.
I do all my morning runs and bike sessions up to 2 hours on coffee alone
But doesn't that take away the main reason for doing fasted training? Correct me if I'm wrong (it sometimes happens) but I thought fasted training was to be performed on nothing but water? (although I do seem to remember reading that coffee without milk or sugar could be consumed so forgive me if thats your diet :o)
Stove top, strong and black.
But your point is valid, however my understanding is that its generally seen as training with no carbs, protein, fat consumed in the morning before training.
Fair one!!!
I wish I had the drive to do my training before leaving for work!
I'd have to be on the bike by 5am latest though realistically!
I've done that gaz, and as hard as it is to motivate yourself you do end up bouncing around with energy like a spring chicken at work - yet another benefit (maybe).
I'm about to get home late so my Tues/Weds/Thurs has changed to Wed/Thurs/Friday with 100k frosty road on Sunday, trying to work out when I squeeze a beer in!
^ maybe on day 1 and 2. Currently the stairs are a challenge!
I do my 25 mile 5am ish commutes fasted (when I did them) prefer the extra 5 mins in bed rather than eating some ceral at that time of day 😆
Currently alarm going off at 6am on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On the turbo for 6:15 for an hour. The shower, breakfast, work by 9am.
The Sat / Sunday sessions are still done before breakfast but a bit later than 6:15am!
I've not risked a 6am turbo yet - living in a small semi-detached I'm not sure its fair either on my wife or the neighbours!
Tunnabora tonight, just about on the money as I might have been able to do another ladder set or maybe not 🙄
Tunnabora for me as well last night. Legs felt like rubbish so I wasn't pushing myself really hard cadence wise. I only did 2 of the intervals at 120rpm, the others I topped out at 110 (very manageable for me)
Question: last week, this week and I will for some on next week, I've been following the last three weeks of the cx plan to bridge me over between races. However I'm not going to be able to do anything from Friday-Tues due to people coming to stay meaning I have to dismantle my pain cave. I'm hoping to get a light recovery style jog in on Friday. THe following Tues I'll be able to so a real wolrd ride.
I'm thinking to to a more intense workout than prescribed tomorrow to make up for not doing anything over the w/e? Does tat seem sensible or should I just keep to plan and skip the workouts?
Bearing in mind I don't think I'm quite as fatigued as I could be as I've not done the full plan just jumped in for a gap between races.
The would be the a good solution to your situation, something like Givens +3 from the plan.
However can you not ride some hill repeats one morning before the household wakes up? You'll be done in 30 minutes and will most likely be in a better mood for it, (I know I would be).
[i]Do as you're told[/i] is a good one, ferrals, if you fancy a harder one. Did that the other night and thought it was good for cyclocross - a couple of the latter intervals have 20 secs rest. Found it harder than revolver, which is my usual choice for a beast of a workout - think revolver is prob more intense, but the regularity makes it a bit easier to deal with.
The Swedish Chef - Member
However can you not ride some hill repeats one morning before the household wakes up? You'll be done in 30 minutes and will most likely be in a better mood for it, (I know I would be).
Normally, yes, but not only is it my wife's birthday but it's my folks that are coming to stay so I think it would be pushing it..
edit. I adjusted on of the stock TR workouts to make this the other day which I think replicates cx starts:
[url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/2551857-Sprint_overUnder ]sprint_OverUnder[/url]
Kurt kinetic cheap on Amazon for the next hour or so
Kinetic Road Machine 2 Trainer https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00F4TVDJY/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_QVltwbS6TGM5V
I was doing so well at Huffaker, I decided to up the workout a couple of % in the latter stages... ooof.
Although - serious question - my legs were hurting and the last 30 secs of the last interval were hard to focus on the green bar I didn't feel the need to blow chunks - perhaps I should push up my FTP a bit?