That must be a new thing, or a special offer.
I just saw somewhere that the cadence sensor was part of an offer.
I was attracted to the Neo because of the rocking motion it had, and when I set the Kickr up I suddenly thought that I might have made a mistake and should have waited for the Neo, as the rigidity of the back end made standing feel funny.
But I had also considered before I bought it that the Kickr has a central brace and two side ones that you level so it might afford a bit of rocking if you didn't lower the feet all the way.
Sure enough it did but I wondered about the long term effect of the impact of the side arms touching the ground.
So I looked in my hifi accessories draw and pulled out some sorbothane feet and have put them under the two lateral feet (feet wound up fully and sorbothane gorilla taped) and also under the front contact point of the central brace.
The back part of the stand still contacts the ground and there is a uber-slight tilt backwards because of the sorbothane pad under the front foot of the central brace - but this flattens out once I get on the bike.
So the amount of motion laterally is not as much as when the feet were just wound up, but there is give because of the sorbothane and standing up feels pretty OK, and not alien to when normally cycling.
It might compromise the power readings and I may take them off later when more used to the trainer, but the feel seems better to me than the raw Kickr.
The Kickr is also on a Kickr mat, so that might also help the feel.
Had a right slump this week, no motivation, did 2 sessions last week then 110 miles on Sunday then nothing this week, didn't go out on Thursday nor today, when I had the chance, nothing on the turbo either
The turn in weather hadn't helped, missing the whole summer feels like I've ridden an endless winter, with only bad weather to come if that makes sense
Right, re-newed the subscription and plan to kick things off again next week. (One of the best features of TR is the ability to shut it down and start it up again with all your data still in place).
Had a complete summer away from competitive cycling and just concentrated on running so I expect to see my FTP drop through the floor before it slowly rises again to somewhere approaching respectable.
Love it that this thread is still going, I find very inspirational 8)
I plan to start next week also - 2 weeks late. Did 70k with some club members today and struggled badly. No power and panting like a dog on heat on the climbs, 40w / 15% less average weighted power than pre illness ides. It did feel good to be riding though. No muscular pain so I know the issues are aerobic.
I really don't want to start with an FTP test 😐
Bought a platform for the top of a camera tripod to hold the laptop on - loaded up Zwift and did a bit of some california route.
Think I am going to use TR though - want some shorter, more focused stuff. Zwift said that it will be having structured workout from November (I think).
Made a bit of a mess with the Suunto mini move stick - installed the Suunto software, then the TrainerRoad USB drivers, and the TR couldn't see any ANT USB device.
So I uninstalled the Suunto and TR stuff and then put the TR stuff back on, then it was OK.
Then I went through pairing stuff up in TR but it couldn't see the Kickr. That appears to be because I paired to the power meter first, which I shouldn't have done as the Kickr is the power meter, so as soon as I unpaired the power meter it could see the Kickr.
Tried to get the Suunto ANT dongle to work on my Nexus 10 as it doesn't have BLE, but I think I need to root it to install software to let it do it, and the same with the options to enable BLE.
[img] 
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Nice set up.
Extra marks for an extension lead directly under the where the pool of sweat will occur 😯
Shocking.
Extra marks for an extension lead directly under the where the pool of sweat will occur
Noted - but I haven't finished yet - I have some fans to mount on the walls and so the extension will take a different path, or be a different one.
The ceiling and walls are a bit cluttered but once I have mounted the fans I was thinking about suing those wifi plugs, then I can fire them up as needed from my phone which will be on that mount on the handlebars!
On Zwift how do people keep making comments - aren't they suppossed to be riding - are are they using voice recognition ???
Just thought I'd chirp in and give a thumbs up to trainerroad.
I've always known how effective trainerroad / turbo training can be but I've always ridden outdoors all year round so never really got into the swing of a turbo plan or similar.
I broke my collar bone about 7 weeks ago pretty badly so I'm not going to be able to ride outdoors for the rest of the year. I started the short power build a few weeks back and I'm really getting into it. I did the sufferfest FTP test and was pleased to see I'm still in pretty good shape considering I've been off the bike for almost a month.
Once I've finished this 8 week plan I'll move onto the XC short track plan.
I'm already 100% sure I'll be fitter than I've ever been before after this.
Roll on next years XC races, I'll be ready to dish out some pain like never before!
On Zwift how do people keep making comments - aren't they suppossed to be riding - are are they using voice recognition ???
There's a mobile companion app, doesn't work for me but I assumed they were using it.
Just wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction of the correct ANT+ dongle adapted for a lightening ipad / iphone socket?
I've got the old 15 pin(?) iPad so the dongle just plugs straight in but I understand I need an adapter to use it on a newer device with the lightening socket?
Thanks
I've not seen a dongle with a lightning plug which would be a tidier solution and odd seeing as the lightning connection has been around for a while now. I think the only current option is to buy one of these which is about as expensive as the actual dongle:
[url= http://www.johnlewis.com/apple-lightning-connection-to-30-pin-adapter/p231760862?sku=231760862&kpid=231760862&s_kenid=4b92f32d-15bf-4496-b4ce-735f4ee8b55e&s_kwcid=402x353299&tmad=c&tmcampid=73 ]15 pin to lightning adapter[/url]
Thanks, thats what i'm looking for. I bought a cheap adapter but it only works for charging and doesnt seem to recognise the Ant+ dongle.
Nice setup TurnerGuy 😀 I really like the camera tripod idea. My laptop sits on an upturned bucket, how's that for posh 8)
Nice setup TurnerGuy
Getting some docking stations for the laptop so I can move it between the main setup and the bike setup easier, without having to unplug so many cables, plus I can lash the dock on to the top of that tripod table so it is more secure.
Had my first go yesterday - determined that I need more fans and I shouldn't wear H/H Lifa long sleeve tops as they are too hot.
Got the Wahoo fitness app going on the phone on the bars as well so every minute a female voice tells me my averages for that minute.
Will start on of the base (sweet maybe) plans on TR after a few more goes so the shock of a FTP test doesn't kill me.
I have mounted the fans I was thinking about suing those wifi plugs, then I can fire them up as needed from my phone which will be on that mount on the handlebars!
Now that I like!
Are you not using the PM to control the Kickr then? Be interested to know how well that works.
Had my first go yesterday - determined that I need more fans and I shouldn't wear H/H Lifa long sleeve tops as they are too hot.
😯 Topless turbo for me!
I really don't want to start with an FTP test
Kryton... get on with it! 🙂
Are you not using the PM to control the Kickr then?
PM?
At the moment I have just be playing with Zwift, so that has been controlling the Kickr - I have been running the Wahoo fitness app and letting it record a workout, but it's not controlling anything.
just about to reactivate my trainerroad sub. anyone seen any promo codes around?
TurnerGuy, you can get TrainerRoad (and maybe Zwift too) to control your Kickr based on output from your Power Meter instead of the power the Kickr measures. Quite a few threads on other forums complaining about the variability of power measured by the Kickr and using this as a solution.
I have nagging trapezius pain and I'm sure its becuase I'm looking down at my laptop which is balanced on a footstool about 18" of the ground.
That tripod has given me an idea to rectify it though.
This is the tripod table I bought :
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001T9J9JE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00
There's a manfrotto version as well :
Several complete stands on Amazon as well, but their reviews were all a bit here and there.
My laptop is a heavy Dell Precision M6600 17 inch and the table is not ideal as it is slightly too small and has a ridge around the edge, but it seems stable when everything is done up tight, and when I have lashed my docking station to it is should be better.
I'be been riding. I still have a slight sore throat.
An 8 min test will be fine.... right? Should I knock it down a few % top account for 4 weeks off? Or leave it at prior FTP?
Tripod table with docking station gorilla taped on (didn't really need the lower taping):
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17inch Laptop securely held :
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Back on TR and in the spirit of optimism, I gave [i]revolver[/i] a whirl this evening. My God it was hard 🙁 Managed to finish it just about.
Felt like a boss last time I did it, as well. Might have to work back up to that one.
An 8 min test will be fine.... right? Should I knock it down a few % top account for 4 weeks off? Or leave it at prior FTP?
Do you honestly think you're still at the same level? If not I'd knock it down as otherwise I can forsee a real temptation to go out hard and fade away over the 8 minutes.
My last ftp was too long ago and I know I'm not even close so I'll be easing myself back into it in a couple of weeks. I think especially with some of the sweetspot work that being slightly under is no bad thing as it's a long way to racing season (for me at least)
Well, what a mess that 8 min test was even though I knocked 5% off my pre-illness FTP. . I lowered the % for the second 8 min becuase I couldn't cope with the watts for the first and based on that last interval x 2 -10% I've lost 12% of my FTP over 5 weeks of virus badness. Sigh.
I spose I have 4 months to get back up to speed....
Did carpathian peak earlier. Quite liked it, but need to do the FTP test started of at 200, then increased % effort to 120% but still don't think that was hard enough. Good to practise trying to cycle at a specific power, which I'm finding harder than expected!
I'm new here. Just had a lightbulb moment. Did FTP test (for first time ever) at weekend and have now just completed Downward Spiral with my personal power numbers (on TR). For past six months id been doing the videos based on my assumed power output.
Now I get why people love the stats. No hiding hey!!
Do you have any power data from when you were just riding on feel? Be interesting if you could see how your perception matches up with the numbers.
Start of revolver is funny,
10 - [i]I am destroying the earth with my speed[/i]
9 - [i]flat out sprint[/i]
8-4 - [i]unfortunately for you we're not going to be spending any time here today[/i].
GL - no data at all. Before I did today's session I was wondering if it would now be too hard etc. Whilst it was harder, it wasn't that much harder which I guess is down to the fact it's based on my FTP test. I think that was my lightbulb moment - the cleverness of the personalised power outputs and how motivating they are. I guess I'm sounding like a newbie now!
Over two workouts my Stages is averaging 9% lower than the Virtual Power.
I've always suspected I'm right leg heavy so could be that, although this obviously assumes TR's power curve is spot on for my trainer (unlikely?).
Anyway, week 5 of Sweet Spot 1 and it's all very comfortable. Hoping I can match my current FTP using the lower readings off the Stages for my next test, feeling good but seems like a set back!
Power trainer curve very unlikely to be spot on. Also I'd be very surprised if it's consistent over the duration of a workout. As a turbo warms up it's likely that the resistance will drop. Mine drops quite significantly over the first 20 minutes or so (as in 3 or 4 teeth on the rear cassette to maintain the same PM measured power) then more gradually for the next hour or so.
Did the 8 minute FTP test tonight. First test for 6 months and it showed! 😳 FTP increased by a massive 3 Watts.
I'm planning on getting started with one of the base plans next week but I'm still really undecided about which one to go for.
I've got reasonable base fitness at the moment and will be racing in the Brass Monkeys series over the next couple of months in the 4h category.
My aim for next year is to try and get a couple of decent results in 12h solo races, probably 24:12 and another one later in the year.
Do you reckon I should be looking at the Traditional or Sweet Spot base plan? I'll be doing the Mid-Volume 1 or 2 depending on which type of plan I go for.
I think it depends how much time you have got available - Sweet Spot if you don't have much. I think the Traditional base look fine if you can stand (sit?) for a long time on the turbo, but they weren't for me.
As a turbo warms up it's likely that the resistance will drop. Mine drops quite significantly over the first 20 minutes or so (as in 3 or 4 teeth on the rear cassette to maintain the same PM measured power)
So as the resistance drops the PM figure decreases as there's less stress in the crank...speed and VP remain constant but you need shift up to increase the load on the cranks and restore the balance with the PM...maybe even reduce cadence to maintain the speed/VP reading?
Just spent 30mins setting up my kickr and comparing with the stages readings. At a fairly steady indicated 200w on the kickr in ergo mode the stages was showing 185w. Last time I sat on a stationary bike that showed balance I was 48:52 right leg so this is about right. Going to run both pms in parallel for a while till I get a decent idea of the link between the 2 as it will mean my FTP will be a fair number of watts different measured on the turbo vs the stages.
Hopefully my first taste of trainerroad tomorrow night now I've got it set up.
So as the resistance drops the PM figure decreases as there's less stress in the crank...speed and VP remain constant but you need shift up to increase the load on the cranks and restore the balance with the PM...maybe even reduce cadence to maintain the speed/VP reading?
I had to read that a few times... but I think yes!
Using today's session as an example, rests between intervals were...
mins 0-10 221W 26.8kph
mins 30-40 227W 28.3kph
mins 65-75 225W 29.4kph
So same power more or less but the wheel speed increased by almost 2.6 kph. If I went by virtual power I'd either be going too hard at the start or too easy at the end.
DT78, can you set a scaling factor on the Stages? Could do that on a single sided Vector to address any imbalance. Mine isn't that constant but it was a handy feature to bring it more in line.
Mine does the same after 5-7 mins, I put it down to the fluid in my fluid trainer warming up and changing viscosity.
Cheers, yeah it took me a few times to think it through!
I'm due a retest soon so sticking with VP until then.
Will be interesting to see how it all fares with the Stages, I can't honestly say I've noticed a drift but I guess working off a PM will highlight it.
And maybe the shortfall will encourage me to work on any imbalance...
Does anyone know if it's possible to add TrainerRoad plans to the Training Peaks calendar?
I know that you can sync completed sessions but i'm thinking about using the ATP function in Training Peaks.
I believe you can set up the kickr so it takes its readings from a different power meter if need be which would sort the difference, but my plan is not to use the best bike on it on going, just whilst I work it out. That'll mean I will just be using the kickers readings.
Bumpy, I don't think there is...been looking for this and/or a sync with Google calendar but nothing so far...
Bumpy, I don't think there is...been looking for this and/or a sync with Google calendar but nothing so far...
Looks like it's going to be a lot of copying and pasting to do then!
Out of interest, do people prefer the 8 minute test or a 20 minute test before starting a plan?
Edit: How do people work the plan when it comes to shift work?
I need to swap some of the days around each week but still do the same weekly sessions. Should it be a problem?
I've tried both and I much prefer the 8 minute, but that's probably because I prefer a shorter effort.
I think the 20 min test is more representative though.
I've only ever done the 8 minute test, not out of preference but basically because the training plans I've done have used it even though the text says you can do either.
Last year I moved the days around but kept the same order of individual workouts. Probably not quite so important on the low volume plans where the sessions are separated by a day or so but on the mid and high volume plans you get a hard session followed by an easy one so best to stick to that order.
Read through the associated text for the plan and for each workout to get an idea of why that workout is where it is in the overall plan then if you need to move things about you have a feel for what's needed.
Now that its been mentioned... i find VO2 max efforts quite hard and im not a powerful rider which is probably why, and also asthmatic. Hence ive been struggling with the 8 min test this year, the 20 I find easier - relastively speaking. In real life im better at endurance than raw power events, speed on flats yet not climbs.
Im wondering about others opinions on this - when we've got to a point of accurate FTP so are working at the correct levels, does our physiology then dicatate we'd be better at one or the other? Im thinking I should defer to the 20 min test now for accuracy, rather than the 8 min.
The 8 and 20 min tests are just "field tests" to get an approximation of FTP, which is max sustainable over an hour. I guess you could physiologically be better suited, or better trained, for one or the other. I suspect I'd get a higher value from the 20 min but mentally I've always preferred the 8 min.
TBH I rarely do the tests now, but then I do have long threshold sessions I do fairly regularly and know how hard they should be and tweak my FTP from those.
Mount Field tonight. Stuck nicely to the target power, just a couple of Watts over. A bit of heart rate drift over the three efforts, 12BPM rise from the first to the last.
Ebbets for me an my new lower FTP. It worked out fine, I found the last interval tough and the sprints bringing that slight sick feeling before recovery - perfect - so I should listed to TR and the posters here and stop being in self denial about my decreased FTP.
Interestingly though, my Strava "fitness and freshness" shows me at the same number as the day before I started my first '15 race in March - surely this is good news, as I've just started base/build/speciality plan to coincide with my first race on 7th March 2016 - so I should be fitter by then than I was this year?!
Funnily enough did Mountfield last night, starting the Sweetspot mid volume, not going to manage the two and half hour sessions though couldnt cope on a turbo that amount of time ! I normally ride everyday but the intensity drops through winter so I am hoping doing a proper turbo programme will maintain and improve gains made this year.
Aiming to increase pwr by at least 0.2 by March to 4.7, doubt I'll lose weight so more power needed !
First session on the rollers tonight in about 7 months.
Came into the year with excellent form, got disillusioned, switched to running, and now back again for winter base.
Dropped the FTP by 50 and tested myself with the Sufferfest film the rookie.
Not too bad, so I know roughly what figures to aim at when I do the FTP at the weeken. Hmm joy of joys.
First use of trainerroad and kickr today with sufferfest revolver as I've used it several times before with a dumb trainer and perceived effort. Dumb trainer HR average of 124 and max 183, with smart trainer average 161 and max of 190 so worked me a lot harder.
Had a couple of odd moments on the trainer which ruined 2 intervals. It just kept getting harder until I could barely turn the pedals seated, almost 500w as I was ramping into the interval, almost as if signal dropped and it kept ramping up till it picked the power back up and dropped the resistance back down. Had similar on some rest intervals when it just kept getting easier. Any one had this? Should I try to get the laptop closer to the trainer?
Hmm would you mind emailing us at support@trainerroad.com so we can take a look at your workout file? That certainly doesn't sound normal.
--
[url= https://trainerroad.iljmp.com/1/forum ]Professional Mtb Racer & Community Manager at TrainerRoad - Cycling's Most Effective Training Tool[/url]
Had a couple of odd moments on the trainer which ruined 2 intervals. It just kept getting harder until I could barely turn the pedals seated, almost 500w as I was ramping into the interval, almost as if signal dropped and it kept ramping up till it picked the power back up and dropped the resistance back down.
I've had that happen with the kickr too. Not very often though, I'd estimate it's happened once every 15-16 hours worth of use, rare enough that it's not really bothered me too much. Doesn't normally last for long but it's as if someone has sneakily turned the resistance up to maximum for a few seconds.
Thanks for the post trevorderuise, I've just sent an email to the support team. First time I've used the software and trainer, so any help appreciated.
@DT78
TR do seem pretty good on their support - there's a couple of their staff post on here for example.
I've noticed that if you go on the TR website during the afternoon and evening there's a "Chat" popup feature (it's not there now for instance) so presumably it's when the TR guys are in the office. It's basically an Instant Messenger type feature and you get very quick support.
First turbo session in 6 months today.
Did a 20 minute test, Rubber Glove, and got a disappointing result. Looks like there's plenty of work to do during the winter.
hi all, everything is in place. The turbo is bought, the ANT+ jazz purchased. Now what do i do? FTP yes then follow a plan I presume. Want to build up base over winter and was thinking of following the traditional base, but which volume? Low mid or high? sorry if this has been asked before ( i have no doubt it has)
TR do seem pretty good on their support
Support is what persuaded me not to buy the Tacx Neo and go for the Kickr - plus the clever way they use their company name in naming their followers Wahooligans... (not really for the Wahooligan bit)
Volume really depends on how much time you have available and also how much time you have for rest especially if you want to ride outdoors as well should the weather be kind.
I did Sweet Spot low volume last winter but am doing the SP mid vol this year. The SP high volume doesn't have any more days on the turbo, just longer sessions.
Sufferfest have a "fall collection" offer on at the moment, three new films for under $30.
Pretty good for those not wanting to follow a dedicated plan but need a little motivation to get on the trainer and nail themselves into the ground.
Hi all. Question if I may. Using TR what have people been choosing to do/follow if they've been training for MTB marathons and endurance events (events with a serious amount of overall elevation and not just distance)?
Cheers for any advice...
I asked TR about something similar but didn't specify big elevation gain:
"I was wondering what would be the best build phase training plan to follow after Sweet Base mid vol considering that I'm aiming at long MTB rides. By long, I'm thinking of 200 mile ITT events"
Reply: In that case, you'll want the sustained power build plan
Well, you could try XC Marathon in the Speciality phase, and a long ride at the weekend.
Hi. Thanks whitestone and Kryton57 for your replies. I'll have a look at those ideas, also reminds me I can email TR direct if necc.
TR support are good aren't they? Suspect is a low battery on the stages causing the cadence / power readings to drop out occassionally and confuse the trainer = it kind of sticking with ramping up or down till it picks signal back up again.
New battery and/or usb extension lead for the dongle should sort.
I may unpair the stages as I was just planning on using it for cadence, but if it causes issues I will use a seperate cadence monitor.
DT78, that's interesting, so were you using the Stages power to control the kickr?
Not intentionally. But I had linked both to trainerroad. It might be it defaults to the power meter. I didn't see any option to chose which power source to use.
Looking at this for next year, currently nursing a smashed up shoulder so off the bike for a while, I'm wondering if anyone has used it with a Tacx Flow, Garmin Speed Sensor and Ant + Adaptor for an I phone with good results, I don't really want to go down the but a power meter route at the moment, I know it would be more accurate in the long run, but as a starting point I'm curious as to how people find it in use.
EVB- They dropped a hint to me that they might be working on some mtb endurance plans for the spring but failing that I'll be on sustained power build and then short power build in preparation for BCBR next year. I think with mtb though if you're climbing singletrack there will always be a need for quick bursts of power to clear tricky bits as well as more endurance stuff.
Quick question about a plan.
I completed Rubber Glove, a 20 minute test, on Friday and had a pretty disappointing result. After the test it suggested that I drop my FTP by 32w. I think it's probably down to both pacing and the fact that I've not done any turbo stuff for about 8 months.
TR suggest the following:
use the second workout of this week to nail down your highest sustainable power via 3x12-minute repeats. If you find that you can exceed your assessment's estimated FTP all 3 times, increase your profile's FTP accordingly.
So how would I alter my FTP if I were to exceed my assessment's FTP in this session? Should I just take the average over the 3 12 minute intervals and use that as my new FTP?
I would do the 20 minute test again, assuming that was your first attempt. There is a bit of a knack to doing them I find (I went off too hard on my first one and blew up).
Any recommendation for 2-3 mid week sessions to keep the legs fresh for a hard ride in wales on Sat?
I plan to start a proper training programme in Dec.
Look at an mtb plan and do the last week, as they are set up as a taper week ie short but intense sessions. Or just do any short session with a high intensity factor. Idea is to not fatigue but still push a bit.
8 min test last night and it was bob on where it was from last winter - quite pleased with that as I've had a bit of a disrupted year with chest infections, so thought it might be a deal lower.
My pacing is a bit ropey as it seems like I can't ride the first block hard - it's a grim effort to just hang on. I can take an axe to the second one, though.
I've done a couple of sessions now on the short course XC plan.
Knocked my FTP setting back from 250 to 240 as I was struggling to hold the power on the intervals.
Did Goddard last night (second week of SP mid vol 1). The efforts were fine but struggled with the individual leg training, I could just about manage at the first power level but not at the following two power levels.
@Garry_Lager I've found something similar when I do intervals - struggle with the first, not too bad on the second, fine for the next three or so then begin to struggle again as fatigue sets in.
My pacing is a bit ropey as it seems like I can't ride the first block hard - it's a grim effort to just hang on. I can take an axe to the second one, though.
That just about sums it up for me too! Did a 3x8 last night. Straight into the first after 20 mins of z2 and it was a right slog, second was ok, and third could push on a bit. First intervals are just always hard.
so I am hoping doing a proper turbo programme will maintain and improve gains made this year.
Aiming to increase pwr by at least 0.2 by March to 4.7, doubt I'll lose weight so more power needed !
rsvktm, missed this first time around. Looking to do pretty much the same thing. Want about 20 watts, big jump. Worked pretty hard last winter so not sure where it's going to come from! Hoping just a bit more consistency, bit more adaptation, staying healthy, and going into winter with better form might do it 😕
A five minute [img] 
[/img] for me tonight... woohoo 🙂