Fair point mrblobby. I've never been in a position to try for sprint, so hadn't considered it.
Kryton. Yep it is on paid version. I thought Id try it out. Just had daughter no. 2. So no training. No outside rides. Just watching my fitness nose dive. Oh well my new daughter is ace
Well, spanner/works.
I'm at the end of the MTB plan, its pissing down so I eschewed the club ride in favor for.... the Coggans power profile test, as I was curious as to my rider profile.
It really was sick inducing, and I'm sitting here now with hurty legs and my quads and calves twitching by themselves, but anyway I've profiles as a "classic time triallist". I've never done / considered a time trial.
My plan is to move on to the Road/Climbs plan in between my XC racing (4 x a month) to supplement the Tour of Cambridgshire and Velothon Wales and help me with the Clif on the Bontrager 24/12 ( a target 24 for me), or should I move to the time trial plan?
Which is the best plan for improving sustainable power and/or attacking my weakness which is sustained climbing?
You have a lot of stuff going on Kryton! I haven't much in my calendar so I entered 8DC - anyone else? By the end of the week I will have doubled my TSS record but it isn't so much the consecutive days that hurt it's just the nature of the individual stages (power up ramps, down ramps). Still i'm learning a lot about stage racing from it.
Afterwards my plan is actually to return to aerobic base...
I probably shouldnt have performed the 20min test less that 48hrs after racing - what a disaster! My legs couldn't cope and although I tried I had to stop/pause 8 times during the 20. Aerobically I was fine not going above 92% HR. I ended up 2w under current FTP, although I did set new 5, 10 and 30 minute power records.
I feel horrible now. Wobbly legs and a really acid gut. 😐
Kryton, had a similar experience yesterday. Had two 20 min intervals to do as part of yesterdays ride (outdoors, not TR) and first was sweetspotty, next was full gas. First was fine, for the second I just couldn't push up beyond threshold. Blame stupid head cold I've picked up from the kids.
You seem to really be beasting yourself Kryton! Rest is a valuable part too 😀
Anyone got any nice, slightly different custom sessions they are "enjoying"?
A nice session for a crit type race (or XC I would say) is some Z4/Z5 under overs. I would normally associate under overs with making 2x20's at 100% FTP a bit more interesting and varied but they seem pretty useful at higher intensities too.
3x10 minute blocks of Z4/ Z5 under overs, with 1 min work @ 120-130% FTP followed by 2 min "rest" at 100-105% FTP throughout these 10 minutes. So, 4 lots of "work" separated with 3 lots of "rest", repeated 3 times, making a total of 3x10 minutes. 10 minutes Z2 proper rest between the blocks of 10 minute under overs.
My legs seem to be responding well to backing up a higher intensity day with a day or 2 of Sweetspot 2x20's (90-95% FTP). Not too mentally tough but enough work to keep the legs ticking over between the hard days.
You seem to really be beasting yourself Kryton! Rest is a valuable part too
I only ride / race every other day, average TSS is 350. It'll be 450-500 this week due to Sunday being a 140k ride, currently sitting in 255 (30 min race sharpener on Tuesday, 1:05 XC race on Wednesday and the 20 min test today.) I'm only doing low volume stuff due to work/family.
I did try some of the 20 min workout, including the entire 5 min 125% warmup on my new TT clip on bars though 😀
A nice session for a crit type race (or XC I would say) is some Z4/Z5 under overs. I would normally associate under overs with making 2x20's at 100% FTP a bit more interesting and varied but they seem pretty useful at higher intensities to
Tinemaha is a good one, some VO2 max followed by OU's.
I probably shouldnt have performed the 20min test less that 48hrs after racing - what a disaster! My legs couldn't cope and although I tried I had to stop/pause 8 times during the 20. Aerobically I was fine not going above 92% HR. I ended up 2w under current FTP, although I did set new 5, 10 and 30 minute power records.
Obree did hour twice in 24 hours 😉
Updates to the Tacx Smart trainers now allow control by TrainerRoad ([url= http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/06/trainer-profile-zwifttrainerroadkinomap.html ]here[/url]).
Quite tempted by this. Looks like it would allow control of the turbo brake based on power reported from a real PM too (rather than using what is still virtual power reported by the turbo.) As nice as a Kickr would be, a Tacx Vortex Smart is a quarter of the price.
Complete newbie questions here so sorry in advance... I have borrowed a mates turbo trainer and wahoo speed and cadence sensor. I only have android devices so have registered myself at http://www.turbotraining.co.uk/. Have installed the sensor and connected to my phone, found a session I want to follow. However, when I begin the workout it says start pedaling to begin the workout and nothing happens once I start pedaling. Sorry for the newbie (stupid) questions.
bavariangaz, you might want to post this in a new thread. This is a thread for TrainerRoad, a different application, so it's likely folk here won't be using the turbotraining application.
Having said that, have you tried installing the Wahoo app and seeing if the paired sensor shows up on that and gives readings for speed and cadence?
Have managed to sync the sensor up through the wahoo app. Just want something a lot more structured than what is offered on there. If I had an ios device then I'd be using TrainerRoad
I'm after a new turbo, want a direct drive one, not got enough cash for a kickr, saw an Elite Muin in Evans today, looked slick - anyone used one?
Was just reading a few interesting comments over at [url= http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=101037 ]timetriallingforum[/url] about direct drive turbos. Lot of love for the LeMond. I've been put off the Kickr a bit by many reports of iffy power readings.
Any other turboists loving the hot weather? Did a couple of hours last night (a custom one, basically z2 with a 2x20) and it was 24C in my turbo torture chamber. HR just kept creeping up and up for the same power 🙁
All is well with a big ass fan!
It was 21 degrees yesterday evening on my long(ish) ride so riding indoors with a decent fan feels quite polar by comparison!
been reading the same thread mrblobby, want something quiet though, as when the mrs goes back to work after maternity only time ill have on days when she's at work will be in the evenings when the kids are asleep,
DanW, I have a big high velocity floor fan positioned inches from my face but I was still a sweaty mess. I think it's the soaking wet shorts that's the most unpleasant thing.
dirtyrider, JetBlack sounds like it might do the job. Same scenario here and I've just got a Minoura TwinMag. Though the noise it makes is pretty negligible compared to the fan! Neither seem to bother the kids though.
I'm supposed to be doing a 90min z2 tonight (Andrews). I'm plugging my power profile into my garmin with an aim to replicating it outside this evening instead.
There's only about 30W variation between blocks there, all in z2. If trying to do that on the road I'd just aim for around mid z2, you'll get lots of variation around that just from being on the road. Think the artificial variation there is mostly just to make things a little less tedious on the turbo!
Yep. I'm just putting the lower / upper zone 2 alerts on the garmin power setting to keep,me literally I'm the zone....
Interesting to see how you get on with the alerts. I think they would annoy me as I'd frequently be dipping just over and under zone. Might give it a try though. I tend to just scribble power numbers for the session on a sticky label and pop it on the stem.
mrblobby - Member
Interesting to see how you get on with the alerts.
Well, they were a bit of a pain in the arse, not least because the traffic was heavy due to the M25 being closed. But I found once I was in the country side I was able to rely on RPE to stay in the zone, not and the alerts worked well to keep me their, beeping far less frequently.
Its difficult though - watts that low are very easily achieve as the road rises, but mean very fast riding as the road dips. In total I achieve 40 mins of 90 in the zone. I might have achieved mre if it wasn't for the traffic issue. Nice sunny easy 33k ride though.
Nice work. Mine would have been going off all ride it was so blustery out there tonight. When do we get some nice balmy summer evenings?
Notice new version of TR out with support for Tacx Smart trainer control. Anyone tried it yet?
Turbo bargain here if anyone looking to get one.
I've got a minoura b60r someone can have for £40 🙂
Quote impressed with the new RideSync option. It actually works, my training peaks and strava was updated as and when the TR session saved itself.
Oooh thanks, just tried it, works well with Training Peaks. Shame it can't do the dropbox one at the moment as some user limit seems to have been reached.
So I ordered an Elite Muin with a load of clubcard points I didn't know I could double up and got Evans to price match Wiggle
I'm assuming I'll be better off using my mtb with stages (I can set up the xtr di2 with a 11 speed road cassette while I'm off the bike, I guess the leg break will keep me off the mtb longer than road) until I can pick up a crank based power meter for my road bike (the powertap g3 bank at paligap for the second time in 4 months) I'll just have to fit a bigger chainring
Article on Team sky website about Ian Boswell at the tour of California. You can look at his Traingpeaks data. Article here:
http://www.teamsky.com/teamsky/features/article/53005#4kmXmsHh9E6BRTg7.97
The most interesting thing for me is not how hard or fast the pros can go but how easy a 5 or 6 hour stage is for them at times and how little it takes out of them
just done a single lap (single legged) on Zwift, certainly seems a better option than trainer road for those "recovery" sessions, certainly less monotonous for now at least, I'm sure it could get boring but at least theres something to look at
Elite Turbo Muin, Stages and with 11 Speed road cassette and XTR di2 mated up lovely,
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We need to see this XTR Di2 MTB Dan 😀 Is it on the Tallboy or something new? Good to hear you are riding again
sorry while i take the thread off topic for a moment,
the di2, its a bit of a messy install at the moment, i don't like the battery bottle mount thing, just looks stuck on and its in the way it feels, also it houses a junction which everything has to go through, might try switching it to the old battery and mount, looks neat enough on my road bike with the under bb small junction (sm-jc40) - look forward to the availability of more integrated solutions, although if I'm honest i should just bite the bullet and buy a Cannondale F-Si as there is zero need for a full sus local
had to mount the junction on the seat tube as well, no room under the stem (Syntace Flatforce) and i don't want the display as I'm not keen on having 2 displays on the bars) so I've run a looooong wire from the shift to the junction inside the battery mount
im not keen on the ergonomics of the shifter either, although today was actually the first time I've used it apart from to screw it together
anyway, enough thinking out loud and waffling, a couple of pics
Shifter
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http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y394/dansipods2/IMG_0246_zpsgikeamvw.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]
Junction Location
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http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y394/dansipods2/IMG_0244_zpsqky3imkh.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]
Messy Battery Junction
[URL= http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y394/dansipods2/IMG_0247_zpsbrhdaxfs.jp g" target="_blank">
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Been pretty quiet here lately. Everyone out enjoying the long warm evenings?
First evening on the turbo in a while here, just couldn't get my turbo head on at all and quit the session after half an hour. Very poor 🙁
Been pretty quiet here lately. Everyone out enjoying the long warm evenings?First evening on the turbo in a while here, just couldn't get my turbo head on at all and quit the session after half an hour. Very poor
did 20 minutes this morning on Zwift (just over a lap) one legged 213W average, cannot keep the cadence high though so 70 average, even 20 minutes was enough, was very muggy
Well, the weather is utter pants at the moment and I feel like I've been struggling in the short course XC races I've done this season (I wasn't very diligent about the turbo training this winter), so I thought I'd do an 8 minute test this evening to get a feel for where my fitness is in relation to this time last year.
Surprisingly, I'm only 5W (virtual power) down on last year's all time high FTP of 215W, and up a reasonable amount from my last test in November (202W). I also managed to go over what I thought was my max HR (hit 192bpm when I thought my max was 191), so I definitely gave it my all. I also realised that cooling is a major problem when turbo training in the summer - I've only ever used the turbo over winter previously and I was melting despite the autumnal weather outside.
My plan is to try out the MTB marathon training plan with a view to doing the Kielder 101 at the beginning of September. I suspect my recent woes with XC racing are down to carrying a couple of kilos of extra padding, and finally having some proper competition in the women's races, rather than lack of fitness.
Time to stop eating quite so much cake...
Legolam, can recommend the big 18" floor fan from screwfix. Shifts a lot of air!
Tried two turbo sessions last week and had to abandon both after about half an hour. Think turboing in such conditions is as much a mental as a physical thing and I just wasn't in the mood. Couldn't even summon the will to spin at z1 power.
Had another go today and did my usual day before a race session. Went a fair bit better... well at least I finished it!
Oh god.
I'm supposed to be doing Vancouver +1 today. 1h 45 and 3 x 20's. I can't get out on the bike so planned to do it outside on the patio tonight. But the duration, and the heat! aaargh...
Has anyone had any issues with the iphone app freezing? Twice in the last week or so it has frozen about 20 mins into a workout. Cadence & power are still working & displayed but the interval & total time is frozen and I can't get it to restart, so I have to abandon the session and start a new one from scratch.
When this happens the workout is saved to my career but there is no image associated with it. There is an option to "resume ride" but it doesn't work and just dumps me back at the career screen.
I've mailed TR support but just wondered if anyone else had experienced the same.
Is anyone using a wahoo kickr or other powered trainer with a singlespeed bike?
Since I got my hands on the kickr I've not changed gear for the last 4 sessions as the the trainer adjusts the power to suit the target based on cadence which seems to make the gears a bit redundant. I was thinking that i could get a cheapo single speed and have a dedicated turbo bike permanently setup in the shed.
I'd need the gears for doing the fitness test but that's probably only half a dozen or so times a year, on those occasions I could swap back to my regular bike. The idea of a cheaper steel framed bike for the vast majority of sessions is appealing.
Is there something I've overlooked that means this is a stupid idea?
how you going to tension the chain?
how you going to tension the chain?
Would be manageable with an eccentric bottom bracket although that would kind of defeat the cheap option so I guess a chain tensioner/knackered old derailleur would suffice.
So after I finish XCM with the Bonty at the end of July, which plan for a 10 mile hilly TT at the end of September? Do I do the TR 40k TT to increase my power but learn a strategy for a 10m or something else?
Not seen it but the 40k TT plan sounds like a good bet. TBH I don't think a plan would vary much between a 10 and a 25, requirements are fairly similar. As for strategy, you really just need to get out there and start doing them. When you racing?
Had to turbo tonight so it was 2hrs of a custom z2/z3 session, had 4 water bottles lined up before starting and got through the lot!
26th September. It's an inter club friendly hosted by us, so my aim will to not be at the bottom of the time sheet. Ok I'll stick with the 40 plan.
That's a lot of tedious turbo time!
26th September. It's an inter club friendly hosted by us, so my aim will to not be at the bottom of the time sheet. Ok I'll stick with the 40 plan.
What's the format? Non aero or TT bikes? If you want to be quick get to work on your position now! Definitely recommend racing a few 10's ahead of it too. I'm still fairly new to it all but it took me a good half a dozen races before I felt like I knew what I was doing and put in an effort I was reasonably pleased with.
That's a lot of tedious turbo time!
Wasn't too bad. Got a custom session where the power level changes every few minutes around z2 and z3 ([url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/2191459-PAL-Z2-Z3-2-30 ]this[/url] was last night) which seems to help the time pass. Dark Knight Rises on Amazon Prime helped too. Had meant to do another half hour but by 10pm I'd had enough 🙁
If you want to be quick get to work on your position now!
Its just "road bike".
I've been practising with clip on aero bars for six weeks now, on and off the turbo. On the Turbo I'm working up my time on the bars during intervals so I can spin up some FTP level efforts for 3-5 mins at a time (its an open road rolling course so plenty of corners & climbs).
Well, I ate a slice of pizza today, and decided to punish myself with an extra 1/2 hour off plan when I got home.
"Slide"... 😯
Slide... blimey, looks properly hard that. Did you hit the power targets?
a slice of pizza 😆
2 laps on swift today, 45min, gingerly using the potted leg at points, not the easiest thing to do on a XTR spd, would be interesting to have some vectors for l+r leg analysis in the coming weeks
7 weeks in plaster today, 8 weeks post accident, i feel the same, no less trained, i guess its in the head though and id be dying on a longer ride cardio wise
Mrblobby no, about 5% under. I did have tired legs after yesterday's 83 miler at 29.5 kph, the return half into a 13mph headwind. But I kept having to stop, more so as it went on to he third interval, the pain was agony. From that perspective, it's a good session to learn how to fight though the pain, I will do it again, good TT experience.
Dirty rider, well maybe 3, 450 myfitnesspal cals worth hence I had to earn it back. Now I'm "only" 20 cals over target lol... Nice going, keep at it.
As we're familiar with wattage and FTP, a sneaky photo snapped at the Tour from Contadors bike with FTP being the red number...
[img] 
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saw that earlier and meant to post it not only for the crazy FTP number but for the actual warm up sequence
whats blanked i wonder and whats
'3 activate - 5" on/55" off
minute 3 - 5 seconds at? and 55 seconds off?
this all above FTP?
Zone 2 at 320w 😯
Activations would be hard sprint for 5 seconds then easy for 55 seconds.
6.7W/kg at FTP, arhhh, what I'm doing is so far removed from Pro cycling it's another sport. 😥
Thats not just pro cycling that's a guy at the very top of his sport. However it is humbling..
Well, thats me completed XCM right down to the Taper, ready for the Bontrager 24 this weekend.
Looking forward to that, a few days OTB and then an 8 minute test next Friday as a prelude to the TT plan ready for My First TT at the end of September.
It was really good to crack some power records in the last two workouts >800w for 15 seconds and >500w for 30. You always feel afterward that you could have gonr THAT bit harder eh?
Best of luck this weekend Kryton. You doing that solo?
Be cool to see how you get on with time trialling. It is addictive, and ....
You always feel afterward that you could have gonr THAT bit harder eh?
There's a lot of that!
Cheers. Yes solo 24. It's the most serious planning I've done, strategy, food clothing etc.
Impressive stuff Kryton.
Not that I've done it, but don't underestimate how much it'll take out of you. I'd probably think about maybe a week off the bike and then a week or two of just riding for fun before embarking on another training plan. Others here with actual proper experience would be better placed to advise though 😉
It's not my first solo. Just my first at this weight, experience and fitness.
Fair enough, crack on, go smash it 🙂
Thanks for the encouragement MrBlobby. I have a plan, and I think it's going to be emotional. 🙂
well 66 days since my accident and I'm out of plaster, now into this moon boot for the next 4 weeks, allowed to weight bare, physio starts Tuesday morning, asked the consultant about swimming, they didn't think it would be a good idea, asked about cycling, said indoors on a static bike, light resistance only, obviously wouldn't be great if i fell off outdoors i guess, will speak to physio about it all again on Tuesday,
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After a bit of advice: I am looking for a way to either export trainerroad workout to use on a garmin (outside), or a program to create workouts that I can export to my garmin which uses %FTP, rather than Zones like on the garmin workout creator - any ideas?
Advice needed on following a program.
I've been working through the base building programme and have noticed that I may be working much harder than the descriptions seem to suggest I should be. I've still been completing things but my power zones and my heart zones are nowhere near comparable.
I did eclipse over the weekend which is supposed to be 3x20 minute sweet spot blocks and got the following results:
Power zone
sweet spot: 70% (62 minutes)
Threshold: 0.1% (5 seconds)
VO2 Max: 0%
But by heart rate
sweet spot: 1.3% (1 minute)
Threshold: 32.3% (29 minutes)
VO2 Max: 41.1% (36 minutes)
So although my power output was on the money, according to the HR zones I was physically working way harder than I should of been to maintain that power. My perceived effort felt somewhere between the two, I felt like it was tougher than it should of been but I'm pretty sure I didn't spend over 30 minutes at VO2Max.
The questions:
Should I just forget about the heart rate stuff and plough on assuming that all work is good work and as i get fitter the two measurements will gradually get closer?
Or am I defeating the point of these sessions by working at an intensity thats above what it's supposed to be?
Or are TrainerRoad's heart rate bands way out of whack or not to be read in conjunction with power zones? I don't ever recall putting in my max heart rate (somewhere in the low-mid 180's) so I assume that the zones are worked out from the LTHR setting.
Sounds to me like your FTP is way out. That determines the power zones so do a 8 or 20min test and let TR set it.
Sounds to me like your FTP is way out. That determines the power zones so do a 8 or 20min test and let TR set it.
I did do the 8 minute test at the start of the base building programme, that was 4 weeks ago. I had a long lay off from any type of riding for about a year and a half and the FTP dropped from 290 something to 247 over this period which felt like it was realistic. My times around my local loop were also down about 20% over the same period which sort of correlates in a fairly un scientific way.
Are you balls out during the test?
Are you balls out during the test?
Oh yes.
Now it could be that having been inactive for so long my 'balls out' wasn't quite as thorough as it used to be but I certainly couldn't have done any more on the day.
I've got another 3 weeks on this programme and the intention was to move on to another programme straight after so I'll get to do another 8 minute test at the start of that. But I'm in two minds whether i should dial down the intensity for the last 3 weeks or just carry on and for the time being and do the FTP reset at the beginning of the new programme?
Some advice please?
I'm at a point where I'm having to "pause" during intervals, and I'm wondering should I carry on or lower my FTP,so I can compete all the intervals without a pause? The symptom is serious leg pain, leading to a 10-15 second pause and then I carry on. For example, tonight which was 5 x 5mins at @108%; first interval - no pause. Second interval, pause after 3 mins. Third interval pause after 2 mins, then another 2 mins. Fourth interval pause after 90 secs, then another 90 then another 90, same on the fifth.
My last two 8 min tests have been the same and show minor (1-3%) gains only but with pauses - which I suppose are "rests" so am I cheating?
Rests during the 8 minute tests? That would indeed invalidate the test as the idea is what you can sustain for 8 minutes, not what you can sustain for 2 x 4 min with a short break in the middle.
What sort of pain? Injury pain? May be worth backing off for a few days if so. Or if it's just legs giving out sort of pain then, yes, I'd lower FTP a little. 8 minute test is just to give you a rough estimate anyway and it may be higher or lower, and it does go up and down with form/fatigue.
First hard effort on the turbo tonight for a while, and first turbo session I've enjoyed in ages. A custom 20 min of high tempo followed by 2x8 @ 105%. Nice to be doing intervals while not being blown about by the wind for a change!
Hmm. Looking back, with a few exceptions that's been happening since my prior FTP test in May. Now, being honest here I added 5w to stretch myself. I think I then I've extended myself to far. I'll knock it back down by 5w and see how the next intervals go. I'm also at 8 months continuos training until I go on hols soon, with August should be my rest month, maybe I should stop.
It's a bit upsetting because my FTP is a lowly 3.3w/kg and I really hoped to get to 4 this year. I know I'm not a powerful rider though.
Some advice please?
you bailed a 24hr race less than a 3rd of the way in not less than 10 days ago
have 2/3/4 weeks off, by all means still ride, just remove the power figure/average speed (means **** all)/HR from your garmin screen (keep cadence)
ride to the coast, do a hilly route, don't chase numbers and just enjoy yourself, theres plenty of time for beasting yourself when its cold/wet/icy/snowy outside,
accept that you failed some of this years goals/targets, but achieved others, no shame in that
That's was through injury though. I stepped off the bike at 95k/7hrs and felt fresh as a daisy, I just couldn't hold the bars.
I am mentally tired, I'm having real trouble motivating myself to go to work an do anything challenging, and am wishing the holiday was sooner. Perhaps your right, I need a break and usually I'd do as you suggest in August, except I entered my first TT in Sept so wanted to train for that. Ah well.
I'd agree on the rest front. I recently signed up for BCBR 2016 and I'm 100% riding for fun currently.. I've already lost probably 30W of my ftp (used to be 300) if not even more. I tried a session recently which was the first in weeks and had to quit after 30 minutes as my legs were jelly.
But I figure as per dirty rider the winter is going to have plenty of unpleasant rides in it and it's impossible to be 100% fit all of the time.
I'm also surprised at adding 5W "to stretch". I find the workouts hard enough as it is and they are designed to slowly add training load. I think by adding 5W you might have been over training the whole time
Looking back at my history I see where I went wrong. A good 8 min test in March saw me jump 10% FTP. THEN inalsomaddd the extra 5w. Even the former would have been challenging. What was I thinking....
I'm always suspicious of a good or bad test result. You know how easy/hard a session should be, if it's too hard or too easy then adding 5W next time is probably an OK idea, likewise deducting 5W if it's too hard.
Is there any guide on pro-rating workouts for morning/evening? My FTP is around 270W, but first thing in the morning I'll struggle to get within 10% of that even after a good warmup. Is it a waste of time to try and fail a workout based on that, or a waste of time to try and do the workout at 90%, or should I just get up early and do housework to earn brownie points and go for a ride in the evening when I'm better?