Nearly at the 4.5 pwr that I wanted for this season.
All down to using the mtb plan.
I hope it causes mine to grow that much, I'm starting it Tuesday and Kahatin looked pretty horrendous numbers wise.
FWIW the powertap measures about +25w over Virtual power for me at this level
virtual top
actual bottom (g3)
pics taken within a minute of each other, same gear, resistance, cadence
would be interesting to see how your indoor compares to your outdoor Kryton,
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Funnily enough I enjoy the katahdin style, take a look at Hawks bill +2 week 5... The ones I really struggle with are the Bondcliff style, steady efforts, really highlighted weaknesses for me.
So glad I went a bit mad and got a kickr, couldn't be doing with the virtual power issues and questions.
would be interesting to see how your indoor compares to your outdoor Kryton,
Difficult to measure no? With the same gear, cadence and speed the added facts of gradient, wind & road resistance make it almost impossible?
Or did you mean what average am I outputting when I race?
I hope it causes mine to grow that much, I'm starting it Tuesday and Kahatin looked pretty horrendous numbers wise.
Did katadihn last night at my new FTP of 250 and it wasn't as bad as I was expecting. Really Short intervals so hard to gauge winding up to power.
So glad I went a bit mad and got a kickr, couldn't be doing with the virtual power issues and questions.
Am still very tempted by a kickr. Though some of the chatter about iffy power readings have put me off a bit. Seems youcan actually use an external PM to control the kickr but that seems a bit of a shame considering the cost of the kickr.
A recent 8 minute test on the kickr gave me an ftp of 366, 20 minute section of commute home today including junctions, corners etc gave me an FTP of 361 with a stages. So happy enough with comparative readings.
The main thing for me with the kickr is I don't have to think or focus on keeping to a power, no gear changes. I just sit in one gear and vary the cadence for what I want to get out of it and the kickr keeps me at the right power.
What are people using to include outdoor rides in their TSS calculations? Reading TrainerRoad blogs it talks about about making sure substitutions have about the same TSS as what was on the program. I've mostly been riding inside but as summer approaches I'm going to want to add some outdoor rides.
I got a P2M in the Autumn and a Garmin 500 but have never yet used them outside. Is TSS available in Garmin connect? I think only Training Peaks premium includes the power stuff (which I don't want to pay for given I'm on TrainerRoad)
If not how are people adding in outside data?
Training peaks basic will give you a TSS score from your power meter. You can also get a TSS score from Garmin Connect. Actually thinking about it TSS is one of the available data fields on an Edge 500.
More time with the manual clearly required then!! 😀
I just paid for Training peaks to keeps tabs on my TSS for indoor & outdoor rides. Its great. Basic will only give u weekly TSS totals in calendar view. Premium can get far better charts to keep tabs on it over time. I also like Power Profile chart, shows how crap I am at sprinting 😉
If you use Training Peaks then it's well worth reading some of the articles and help pages about stuff like the [url= http://help.trainingpeaks.com/hc/en-us/articles/204071874-Performance-Management-Chart ]Performance Management Chart[/url] in order to get the most out of it.
Rolled out revolver last night, first time using a sufferfest vid / TR - great stuff.
Could have gone a bit harder - when I finished I felt reasonably sure I wasn't going to throw up. But then each block is recommended as 9/10 perceived effort so think I hit that about right.
Sufferfest music was a bit anodyne for such a full-blooded effort, but guess you'll never please everyone there.
Kephart - nice.
Really struggling with Morgan at the moment, bailed half hour in for the second week running.
I'm away this weekend so maybe a short break away from the trainer might do me some good...
Did second 8 minute test earlier.Puked in my mouth when I finished. Ftp has gone up by 25%...wtf. I have just finished sweet spot 2 low volume and a few good rides as well. I was expecting a bit of a jump (but not that much) as I had a decent base fitness from last year but dropped off a bit towards end of year and have followed program really well. Bike set up hasnt changed. Same pressure and resistance. Not bailed any sessions and found myself upping workout intensity towards end and it is true that as you get used to turbo training the pacing gets better, nearly typed easier then!!!. FTP/Kg is up to 3.72. Happy with that at 48 y.o. Now to start MTB mid volume. For anyone reading this who is thinking about trying TR I cant recommend it enough.
Nice work there teamslug!
anyone having problems uploading workouts? I get upload error?
Been combining midweek sessions on TR over the last four weeks with real distance riding outside, with a switch to more over and under type intervals, things like:
- Apple Orchard
- Hawks Bill
- Lafaytte
- Kephart
Anywhere between 45 to 75 minutes long, done twice a week off a good base, can really feel the benefit.
Thoroughly recommended for people just finishing the sweet spot work.
Today's film of choice was the '92 edition of Paris Roubaix. Not sure its possible to have more awesomeness in a bike race than this.
Scott drop-in bars
RockShox forks
Yates, Kelly, Lemond for the Anglophiles
PDM, ONCE, Festina, Telkom, Z
First xc race of the season tomorrow and just off out to the garage to do Osceola, as a finish of the taper week of mtb mid volume plan, be interesting to see if an actual training structure over winter helps. Certainly seen an improvement of ftp and ability to hold power but seem to have lost a bit off top end sprinting.
My idea is very similar for the next few months re a couple of sessions of over and unders throughout the week on top of general riding
Did second 8 minute test earlier.Puked in my mouth when I finished. Ftp has gone up by 25%...wtf.
My second FTP test showed a similar increase. I think some of it was knowing what an FTP test was like and how to gauge it. In hindsight I didn't go hard enough on my first one.
thats probably where most peoples gains come from, low volume plans are what 3/4 hours a week? no way your getting 25% off 3/4 hours a week
Here's a questions, probably revealing a bit to much but...
Hills/power isnt my forte, yet I have a series of MTB events from May-August indispersed with the odd road crit and some road sportives.
Do I continue with the MTB speciality, or move to the Road race climbing speciality? in order to help my sustainable power instead? Or finish MTB and move to Road Climbs instead of repeating MTB?
I don't find that sustainable power is quite right for racing situations, (unless in a TT), as pulling turns on the road, or technical sections on XC courses require going above the sustainable level for 30 seconds or so, then dropping back to just under it.
Therefore I think the MTB plans are very good for this, as I said a few posts up, the over and under emphasis is perfect for replicating this.
I just went through my diary... The MTB plan takes me to mid May when my mid-week MTB series starts and goes on until July, as does my monthly series continue (i'll be missing April's event).
Then the road climbs would take me through to July, and I have Velothon Wales on June 14, then from July I can go back to MTB to get ready for the Bonty.
I think thats my plan...
wrong thread!
My sustainable power increased with the mtb plan, ability to hold a set high hr on a draggy long climb racing at the weekend was a bonus that I wasn't expecting. When not caring where hr was and just pushing on I have definatley improved in repeatability of high efforts and recovery.
Just need to avoid other peoples crashes now..
I don't find that sustainable power is quite right for racing situations, (unless in a TT), as pulling turns on the road, or technical sections on XC courses require going above the sustainable level for 30 seconds or so, then dropping back to just under it.
Over unders are surprisingly applicable to TT's too. Even on fairly flat courses there's still rises and dips, gusts of wind etc. And gear changes need surges of power to get back on top of a new ratio. You're constantly dipping over and under your target power, though probably not to such degrees as when racing xc!
Power peaks in XC did you say?
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😀
Morgan for me tonight. Recently increased my FTP so not looking forward to this.
https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/1814-morgan
[s]Kryton, if that is your data then I'm impressed![/s]
Edit... Thought numbers on the right were the averages 🙂
Edit... Thought numbers on the right were the averages
Lol! I wish. Yes they are mine from yesterdays race. 😳 It was a flat, almost dry soft mud - the kind that doesn't pick up in the tyres but tires your legs out hence the lack of average Watts albeit that is Strava watts not real power. It was long too - 1:40 at race pace.
[s]Was that with a proper PM or just estimated power?[/s] Ah Strava watts. I'd assume real watts considerably higher!
Yep, thats what I find on the road bike, a massive difference from a real PM (in my favor).
Nice HR data there Kryton!
Nice HR data there Kryton!
Considering my HR max is 178... Its a good lesson there though, becuase although I started to get really tired, almost bonking tired (I didn't take Gels becuase I'd anticipated a shorter race)you can see my HR drop on the last lap which was 1 min slower than the preceeding ones. That one minute would have got me two places further up. You live and learn eh...
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Really want a power meter for mtb.. Mine from yesterday's race. Shows huge variations in HR for me, far more than I would see doing a TT so for me the mtb plan is quite specific to the demand of xc racing. Some of the lower HR is being behind back markers on singletrack, then having to nail it past when able.
Looking at the profile - were we at the same race - MSG at Carver Barracks?
I was at a Nutcracker in Whinlatter 2300 ft of climbing in 13 miles. Not ideal for a chunky like me 🙂
for comparison if you wish of strava estimated v power data from a Stages X9
Of course you shouldn't get hung up on comparing power to your own, just thought it would possibly be useful,
first pic is 1x Lap of the "Red" at Sherwood 6/11/14
second pic is 1x Lap of the Red at Dalby in the wet on 2/11/14
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Thanks for that dirtyrider. I don't take any notice of the Strava power figures as they are miles out for me on the road so can only imagine how bad they are on mtb, At the mo I just have to look at HR.
I do Dalby a fair bit as get a bit of support from a local bike shop, sherwood occasionally so they are perfect patterns for me to look at power as a comparison.
Thanks again.
dalby lap, with bits of black was 1:46, sherwood lap was sub 37, depending on which of the 100 full segments your looking at
aerobic threshold. should be zone 2? endurance.
going off heart rate gives me an upper bound of ~140 (HR). which seems about right (max is 201)
75% of FTP gives me a HR of around 160; which seems far too high. (threshold heart rate is ~170)
any thoughts? (or have i missed something entirely).
Grassy ridge for the 6th time this month, but the first time i didn't manage it 🙁
Anyone got any idea why I find it impossible to do a morning workout on TR?
I had a late start at work today, so thought I'd get my TR workout over and done with after I got up. Had a decent night's sleep, ate a light breakfast and went out to the garage about an hour after getting up.
As soon as I started the warm up for The Priest (part of the MTB low volume plan), I could sense that my legs just weren't up for it. My HR was consistently 15bpm higher than what I would expect for the stepwise warm up. I bailed after the 15 min warm up with the sort of HR that I would expect at the end of a hard hour of intervals.
I've always had this issue with morning workouts - I know that if I do the same workout this evening, I'll more than likely complete it.
Any suggestions? Dehydration? Nutrition? WTFU?
As soon as I started the warm up for The Priest...
I'm doing the same workout in about 2 hours. Feeling a bit lackadaisical right now though... ...and a new turbo trainer / gear combo's to add some faffing into the mix 🙁
Anyone got any idea why I find it impossible to do a morning workout on TR?
i really stuggle to train befoe work. I moved my working day around to allow training before work, less stressful as it means i don't need to leave by a certain time. but i couldn't do it. so i've moved my hours around again, so i can leave earlier.
and a new turbo trainer
what you got than?
/ gear combo
fitted a proper racing block to the turbo bike, instead of the mtb casette it had before, tis lovely.
For one reason or another I've not been putting any time into the turbo for quite a while but thought I'd dig it out tonight and have a crack at using [url= http://www.zwift.com ]zwift[/url] after getting a invite for the beta version.
A bit flakey to get into, crashed a couple of times starting up and the process of getting going is a bit convoluted, requiring a login and setup each time you start the app but it's a beta and hopefully these things will get ironed out. Once I actually got into a ride it seemed pretty solid.
First thing was it seems like it's watts calculation might be a bit more generous than trainerRoad and certainly a lot more generous than the watt bike that I've been using at the gym. I was able to clip along at a fairly comfortable 300 watts, which I can't do (at least not comfortably) on either trainerRoad or the watt bike. Graphically it looks ok it's not going to win any awards, the riders look a little wooden and theres a weird section where you ride through the night but no ones seems to have any lights and they've still got their sunnies on, but like I said it's ok.
The real problem I have with it is that without any force feedback the idea of changing gradient feels a bit pointless and in many way inferior to the follow the graph method employed by TrainerRoad. There also seems to be a bit of a lag between upping the watts and your avatar accelerating which makes it feel a bit disconnected. Maybe I'm just not 'playing' it right but it feels less involved than trainerRoad, I was was getting a bit bored just ploughing on at the same output minute after minute and started watching the clock after about twenty minutes.
I guess it's relatively early days for zwift and I'll certainly try it out again from time to time to see how it improves, particularly when they introduce training plans. I think the ability to ride a training plan in conjunction with other people might be the thing that saves it for me.
I've been on Zwift for a couple of months now and tbh I can see it becoming massive - I'm certainly a fan.
The log-in is slightly clunky with having to log-in and pair sensors each time but that only takes 30 seconds and it's something they've said will be sorted in a later update. Having said that I've never had it crash or anything and only experience a couple of minor bugs which have generally been sorted.
Graphically it depends on your set-up, at the minute it auto-configures and there are no options to trade graphics for frame rate etc although these are coming. If your graphics card can handle it you can get lights, if it can't you don't and that's the same with a few bits and pieces.
They acknowledge that it gives a different reading to trainerroad and that they've deliberately made it this way. Obviously the main thing is consistency rather than total accuracy. If your trainer supports smart inputs then gradient changes have an impact if not then you could easily ignore the gradient and just ride to power - loads of people do trainerroad workouts on the island. Personally I find that even with a dumb trainer the gradient changes etc give you the impression of it getting harder as you slow down.
The big thing it's lacking at the minute is an ftp reading (virtual/real) and the associated training modes - these are due to provide the backbone of the experience along with the more officially organised races. At the minute my workouts are based on the Strava times - 1, 3, 5 lap times, sprint times, hill climbs etc as well as just trying to hang on to the back of the faster goups. Once you get in a group race scenario with people attacking, bridging etc it's mint!
Put it this way, I never thought I'd be eyeing up a century ride on the trainer, I did the metric century a month or so ago and now I reckon it's time to do the real one. I can't recommend it highly enough - they're handing out invites quite freely now so worth applying for.
Finally, where else would riders like Jens Voight and Lawson Craddock get the chance to ride with me?! (Laurens Ten Dam is on there as well but he hasn't been lucky enough to drop me yet)
and a new turbo trainer
what you got than?
I bought an Elite Chrono Fluid on special at wiggle. Much more road like, stable and quiet that my Minoura Mag and no issue with getting the correct pressure of the roller on the wheel as it uses body weight. The resistance level isn't quite as high, but that means my workouts look faster on Strava 😀
The crashing might be because I'm on a mac which I think was put out after the PC version so might not be as stable. It's not a super fast computer but it is a mac pro laptop so it's no slouch either, probably middle ground in terms of hardware I guess.
I tried it again tonight and I'll try it a few more times yet, mostly because I want to be sure to give it a reasonable run to see if it grows on me but I'm still not really feeling it yet. But then I've only done a grand total of around 80 minutes.
So far I've not noticed the sprint / hill sections until they're underway, the visual cues are a bit subtle and if there's an audio cue for the start of these I may have missed it because i turned the sound down to get rid of the background noise. i think it's supposed to be crickets or something similar.
Do you use your's with headphones and a mic for in game chat?
Possibly Mac related, the PC version seems stable enough - if I was paying for it I'd be happy.
Once you know where the sprints etc start then you can't help but go for it, there's no audio cue that I've ever heard though. Until the workout mode comes along you just need to freestyle it a bit, try and stay with people etc and there are races and group rides being organised on Facebook.
Not done in game chat yet, usually USB mini keyboard sugrued to the TT bars, quite a few people use 3rd party apps for voice chat and there is an inbuilt chat thing coming soon.
I was in a group the other day where I was getting dropped on the hills and then chasing back on on the descent and flats just in time to win the sprint and then be dropped again - it was like real life! Really good workout though...
After using zwift I went on to the trainerRoad suggestions page to ask if they could add a collaborative training option, as for me that's the only thing that I can see that would 'possibly' make me switch to zwift. I just got a response to say that it is something that they are planning to implement. No idea of timescale but I'll look forward to seeing how they go about it.
Kephart - [i]not[/i] nice.
FTFY
Anyone else using the IOS App? Since the last update mine keeps pausing mid session - last night it happened 4 of 5 times in an hour.
FTFYAnyone else using the IOS App? Since the last update mine keeps pausing mid session - last night it happened 4 of 5 times in an hour.
which sensors are you using? mine does this if it drops connection with the speed/cadence sensor
and no issue with getting the correct pressure of the roller on the wheel as it uses body weight
Kryton, does that mean the reported power will increase as your weight decreases (as resistance between roller and wheel will also decrease)? Reported virtual watts going up and kg going down, double win 😉
which sensors are you using?
Using the Wahoo ANT+ key & a Garmin GSC10 speed/cadence sensor. Has all been fine to date but has started to have issues following the last update to the app.
I guess it could be battery life getting low & just a coincidence.
Anyone else using the IOS App? Since the last update mine keeps pausing mid session - last night it happened 4 of 5 times in an hour.
I've used the iOS app from the start, firstly the iPhone app on the iPad then more recently the new iPad version. Not had any problems regarding cadence. I'm using the same sensor and ANT+ dongle as yourself.
Cheers, perhaps I'll change the sensor's battery just in case & see how it goes.
With the longer days and the realignment of the working day to give longer daylight in the evenings I've not being doing much on the turbo in the last few weeks. Basically I've been dipping in to the MTB low volume plan and doing whatever happened to be "assigned" for the day so Katadhin and Kephart have been the last couple of sessions.
What does everyone else do at this time of year? I'm just thinking of using the occasional session to maintain fitness or target perceived/actual weaknesses and keep me used to the turbo.
Also any recommended sessions or just pick one from the plan?
What does everyone else do at this time of year? I'm just thinking of using the occasional session to maintain fitness or target perceived/actual weaknesses and keep me used to the turbo.
Fit a PM on the road bike and carry on doing similar sessions on the road. Though some sessions are still better suited to the turbo.
What does everyone else do at this time of year?
mothball the turbo, cancel TR subscription, get outside and enjoy the view
After my winter of illness I went out on my first proper club smash last night, which is a full bore route in the dark around North Londons biggest hills.
I did ok averaging 29kph over 84k - my longest ride since December I think - and 700m climbed but more importantly really felt the difference that the 15on/15off intervals in the XC plan have made. Just like the intervals I seemed to be able to smash a pace then recover really quickly. Although I was hanging off the back I wasn't ever in trouble and 30+ Strava PB's on climbs since the same ride last June in Sunny weather no lights tells a story. Examining some of them ive done that with a lower HR also so must be fitter and stronger.
huzzah, Trainerroad works...
Anyone done the Powertest? I'm interested to use the famous Powerchart to see what my profile is.
Great to read that Kryton, structured training works, wow who knew 😀
Lol. Indeed. Its always nice to have a real world measure.
This is the Powertest I'm on about:
https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/23754-H-A-A-C-Power-Profile-Test
I have the Kindle book and although I'd never have believed it my basic calcs put me in the sprinters profile, so I want to do it properly and see if that's true. It'd certainly change my approach to racing if so, I'd never considered going for sprints before.
Last night was the first time this year i've been too hot in the garage. Completed Bird though which was unexpected https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/1917835-Bird
I've been a bit down about training lately, I can't seem to ride over ftp for more than minute, can't complete an ftp test and have made no gains since finishing sweet spot in November. I think I need to take the time to tweak my riding position in a free ride session and make notes, then do the same on my race bike.
akak, the best advice I got - from here - was just to stop & rest as you may be trying too hard. Spend a week or two with something such as Bald Knob to keep your legs ticking over.
I didn't want to on the basis of a potential drop in performance, but I've come out the other side with all guns blazing.
I don't think that I am under rested - I have had 2 separate weeks off the bike entirely this year without any difference. You're right that it wouldn't cost me anything in my current state though, the power build is almost finished with no power built and I would even go back to sweet spot to try to get back on track.
akak, you don't seem to have any problem with the short high intensity stuff. I know if I try and go from a block of high intensity short intervals back to longer intervals, and vice versa, it's going to be a bit of a struggle initially. I'd probably look for (or create) some workouts that stretch out the duration and bring down the intensity. So start off with intervals of maybe 3 mins, then 5, then 7 etc. bringing down the intensity as you go. Then just stretch out the duration over a period of a few weeks.
On this same theme I've been reading about TSS/CTL/ATL/TSB in Training peaks.
Now I don't use Trainingpeaks at all currently and I'm keen not to unless it's free or I can really see the benefit given I'm already using TrainerRoad.
I've been using TrainerRoad low volume for indoor sessions and then on other nights going out on the bike just doing rides with friends (but quick friends). I'm then using Garmin Connect to combine everything (as I also do some running as well) and my TSS for last week was 684. (Using Garmin Connect; PM data on the bike and a GPS/HR for the runs).
I'm wondering if I should be keeping track of this and if so is the only option TrainingPeaks?
Thoughts appreciated.
You could always just put the TSS into a spreadsheet. It's quite handy just to keep track of or plan how hard a week is. TrainingPeaks PMC is handy for help you gauge and plan form but you need to put the time into planning. Easier I reckon at a high level just to have target TSS (and maybe IF) for each week and progress that within some sort of on/off model.
Can anyone tell me what device I need to use the speed / cadence sensor on the turbo bike outside? I have the wahoo bluetooth one and want to take the bike on road. It seems one option is to use my phone and possibly strava?
Prefer not to have my phone on the bars, so can anyone recommend a simple cycling computer unit that will work here?
Kryton, what is the powertest? My TR subscription has run out so I can't see the link.
If it is what I am thinking of then doesn't it basically just test for 5 min, 1 min, and sprint max power then match against something similar to the chart below (not my number highlighted BTW!)? If so, then can't you just take your recent 5 min, 1 min, and sprint max power (or whatever critical power values are required for the test you have in mind) and go from there without a specific session required? Feels a bit like doing cycling horoscopes for some reson but I'm curious now where I sit 😀 There are some examples [url= http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/power-profiling ]here[/url]
[img] 
[/img]
EDIT: oooh I'm a textbook Cat 3 All Rounder. Translation: Fred 😀
Yes that's it. There's some defined profiles which mark you out as a sprinter etc. Actually I haven't done it yet but just using TR current data my profile comes out as the sprint profile which is a surprise to me in some ways. But then again I'm slow on draggy climbs, can turn big gears at the front for short 5 min periods, and seem to have some kind of short climb power advantage. I seem to have the ability to sit in on club runs the hammer the final 5 mins to win at the coffee. shop sometimes I need to do the test, work out if it's right and learn how to use my profile to my advantage but I'm not really sure what it is yet.
Tonight I surprised my self by knocking out 6 x 300+ watt 3 minute intervals, where I thought I'd fail. I remain bemused.
7 months on TR and today I realised that the white dot on the power bar is your interval average...
Is it? I didn't know that! Ta! 😳
Re. Power profile. That's why training peaks is so good. Automatically has a power profile chart calculated from all your rides and then shows which cat you might fall in. I'm rubbish sprinter but almost cat 3 on longer efforts. I need to train my for my sprints. Great at showing your strengths & weakness.
7 months on TR and today I realised that the white dot on the power bar is your interval average...
Wow. Did not know that and I've used it for 3 years!
Jonno101 - I assume that's a paid for feature?
I think pretty much all the good stuff in TrainingPeaks is a paid for feature. Though don't think that power profile is that useful really. Doesn't really tell me anything I don't know. If you race then you know where you are. I suppose you could set yourself a goal to get into the next band up but it's a bit artificial.
Did my first normal TR session in ages last night (been doing custom ones for a while.) Had a crit on the plan but had to skip it due to sick kids. Wanted to replace it with something reasonably hard so did [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/3169-table ]Table[/url] instead along with some z2 free ride. Even got a couple of little medals for my efforts 🙂