Power is power, resistance is irrelevant providing you have your settings correct.
Yes. I forgot to think before I posted that.
Dirty rider - yes that's is wolf jaw.
So that's me all set up - been following this thread with interest and did the 8 minute test today. I went off a bit hard on the first one and had to scale things back but got the second one pretty steady. Although I've not ridden much of late I was a little disappointed at my performance before realising when I got off the bike that one rear brake pad had been rubbing on the wheel! ARSE! Gonna have to try the test again in a couple of days I think 😯
Chapeau to all who did the Tour of Sufferlandria. Top efforts there 😀
Had intended to do a lumpy z2/z3 road ride yesterday but couldn't get out the house so decided to have a crack at creating [url= http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/94421-pal-z2-z3-2-30 ]something similar[/url]. Fairly frequent pace changes and the CX worlds on the telly helped the 180 mins pass fairly quickly!
If anyone from TrainerRoad is listening, workout creator is great! Better cut, copy and paste for chunks of rides would be good to have. I know I can create snippets but it's a bit clunky compared to a quick copy and paste. Also being able to select an insertion point for a chunk would be good. Also it'd be nice to be able to select a chunk of a workout (a few intervals) and increase/decrease the intensity of everything selected.
I've finally given up and lowered my FTP by 5% after having difficulty with 4 x 12 at 95-99% ftp yesterday. Struggling on the final two, I ended up 1 minute "on" (at target) and 1 minute off having changed down a gear still pedalling furiously at 108rpm for the whole 12 and there 24 mins.
Today my quads are really hurting, so no lack of effort on my part, despite only logging a 174w NP. Time wise It all seems to coincide from late October with:
a) a chest infection
b) a change of rear tire
c) changing my resistance from "2" to "3" on my turbo.
Obviously I need to do an FTP test but the shame of what will be lower figures I find quite embarrassing albeit I appreciate its only a reference to my own setup.
Just got to fit the FTP test between race schedules.
As you say, numbers are all relative to your setup. Considering your competitiveness in races I'd say you're quite a bit higher than the virtual power figures. Also it's normal to have peaks and troughs throughout the year depending on where you are with your training.
Kryton, have you tried a complete uninstall of TrainerRoad, or can you find someone who can let you use their setup?
maybe its a failing sensor or something?
176w seems really low, really really low,
Dirty rider - that is as caculated by TR not "real". Mrblobby - by coincidence it was a fresh install of TR and the dongle onto my work PC, as my wife chose my workout time to upgrade our old MacBook annoyingly.
Fwiw and I appreciate there's some drafting and mathematical BS and inaccuracy in this comparison, my last Crit registered 300w average over an hour on Strava and my legs weren't as painful as they are today.
I wouldn't necessarily trust Strava either (especially if drafting etc) and the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Just as a quick comparison my FTP using virtual power was 183W which jumped to 238W within 2 weeks when switching to a proper power meter last year. 238W is hardly mind blowing either but it is a big jump from the VP! It wouldn't be surprising at all if the exact resistance generated between the turbo and tyre with different tyres (I use a 26er MTB width tyre for example) and varying turns of the resistance knob is highly variable between set ups- TR can't possibly second guess all of the variables between individuals.
Another thing to bear in mind is that you seem to be doing a lot of races and events which will take quite a lot out of your legs even if you aren't in it to win it. Quite a shocking amount actually if you ever move to using a PM outside too- much easier to knock out 1 hour turbo sessions day after day but of course less fun that proper riding 😀
kryton is there anyone near to you that can lend you a power meter ? You seem to be having more than a few issues, unfortunately Strava power doesn't match any 'real life' figures I've done. I'm in North Yorkshire with a kickr and a stages if your anywhere near.
yer ignore the strava watts, it thinks you was out there on your own, in perfect conditions
Rsvktm, do you run the kickr and the stages together? Be interested to know how good you think the power measurement on the kickr is? Heard that it can drift quite a bit and that people are increasingly using their own PM to control the kickr.
Re Strava, it's more interesting to compare your ride to others who were in the same race who publish their power numbers. Everyone's different but it gives you a ballpark or an idea of where you need to be.
Re a proper PM, if you can't borrow one and you really don't want to buy one, you can always rent one for a couple of months. It's pretty cheap to do. Would at least take some of the doubt and guess work out of the equation.
DanW ive only raced 3 times at weekends. My normal week is TR Tuesday and Thursday, ride an hour on Friday and club ride Sunday. If I do a Saturday crit I drop Friday's ride.
I'll see if I can spot someone on my last race with a powermeter..
Even the Sunday club ride can take it's toll on the legs if a reasonable length and pace- even more so if you have some bad nights sleep and a bit of stress at work, etc. It is quite an eye opener to see power data from outdoor rides for the first few times when you are used to seeing the numbers coming out of TR sessions that feel fairly hard.
Before getting hung up and real power and real PM's the first step is to get an FTP test done since all the set up changes but it sounds like you have this in the pipeline anyway which is good.
It appears the average of those with Powermeters in that race was 250w, those estimated was 280-300w.
Sleep has been an issue Dan - I have quite a mentally stressful job and our youngest is getting up one or twice night. Can it really be that thats affecting me so badly?
I'll do the FTP test.
unless you've solo'd off the front then NP in a race will be way less than peoples FTP, don't worry about others FTP's or Numbers, the only person you have to concentrate is yourself and getting consistent data you can train to
kids, I've got a 5 month old who only sleeps 20-40 minutes a day, a nearly 3 year old, a just 4 year, old and a 3 year old i have once a week,if i can get 20% increase on my FTP ill consider getting rid of them 😉
Sleep has been an issue Dan - I have quite a mentally stressful job and our youngest is getting up one or twice night. Can it really be that thats affecting me so badly?
It would really do me no good. The difference between a busy, stressful week and a week working at home getting up when I feel like it is night and day for how the legs feel. A bit of pressure and worry at work in particular seems to really take its toll for me, sleep a little less so.
kids, I've got a 5 month old who only sleeps 20-40 minutes a day, a nearly 3 year old, a just 4 year, old and a 3 year old i have once a week,if i can get 20% increase on my FTP ill consider getting rid of them
Or at least work from home and have more flexibility with sleep and stress... that is an intermediary step before re-homing 😀 If you improved your FTP 20% you'd be fighting it out for podiums at the nationals 😀
mr blobby, haven't had a problem with the kickr. It is reading high compared to the stages but consistent as long as do a spin down test once it's warmed up. I've just adjusted the ftp up and done a test to make sure accurate. I couldn't turbo without the kickr erg mode, I'm too lazy and would back off... Can't use the stages as on a carbon road bike that I don't like to see flex in the turbo, just have an old steel mtb in there.
just 20% eh, i leave the property guide hanging about on the table tomorrow 😉
aaannnd worse still. Performing Morgan at the now reduced FTP, to complete the 3 min intervals x 8 I had to reduce the session to 87%.
Apart from 2 sessions in December, the last time I completed a nice smooth >200w interval of any length was November 20th, at the end of 2 x 8 weeks of Sweet Spot. Looking at my strava notes, this is around the time I had that chest infection for 6 weeks.
Could it really be that I haven't recovered (physically rather than bacteriogically) from that and am actually getting more and more progressively tired?
But I ask - talking to myself - how come I'm ok for crits - ah - becuase my last interval session was on the Tuesday then I raced on Saturday = rested.
This is the final week of my build session. I've two more weekend crits before I get to the MTB XC Olympic Specialist session, the first session of which I'll make an FTP test. So I'll spend those two intervening weeks with the suggested final week of the Build plan - the recovery week. Maybe I just need a longer rest, because with the weather as is, I've been 85% Turbo for the last 6 weeks.
Hmm 8)
have a week off
Turbo tired Kryton? Reckon that much of the effort of turbo work is mental and being tired makes is much more difficult than similar riding in a more mentally stimulating scenario. Also with racing you have a nice dose of adrenalin to boost your efforts that you'll never get on the turbo.
I had a 2 week chest infection at Christmas and I'm still recovering.. I've been holding off doing an FTP test until I feel good but it's taking a while. I'd second dirtyrider and just take a week off completely and let the lungs etc completely heal and catch up on sleep. About 2 weeks ago I picked up my running pace a bit from 5:00/km to 4:50/km (normally I'm down at 4:30ish) and found myself back at the doctors feeling rubbish and was told in no uncertain terms to take it easy for a while longer.
I reckon so Mr Blobby. Before todays session I micro checked everything - tyre pressures, roller pressure, nothing rubbing on the wheel, I cycled the remote resistance in case it was stuck, everything I could think of.
I was still hanging on with leg pain in the final 30secs of 3 mins at 212w. Back in Nov I was knocking out Lamark - 4 x 10 mins at 225 comfortably as sweet spot and Huffacker which is 3 min intervals up to 270w as well.
It has occurred to me that with the tyre change I did change my wheels from OEM Giant SR2's to Forza Cirrus, that could also have an impact but for my sake the resistance should have gone the other way with that!
Just to state the obvious - you have checked that the trainerroad program shows the right resistance level? Try level 4 instead as the curve for 3 might be wrong?
I would say that you need to do something different (possibly rest) as the xc plan is harsh and you don't sound in a good condition to start it.
Kryton,
why not order a Kickr from Apple? you can use for 2 weeks and return, no questions asked, short of borrowing a power meter it might give you an idea where you actually are?
Having read all that Kryton I would be starting to worry about showing signs of overreaching. I'd take at least one entire week off the bike - better to lose one week and come back rested than lose a whole season cos you didn't know when to stop.
schmiken I read this
http://www.active.com/health/articles/how-to-tell-when-you-re-over-reaching-or-over-training
...and probably agree. I started the sweet spot in September, because of the chest infection never stopped for a rest over the Christmas week for a rest and am under a fair bit of stress at work also. Its just occurred to me that's four months of effort on top of that and I'm displaying 5 of those signs - duh.
Ok, two super relaxed weeks coming up. I also watch Hot Fiat's mindfulness video in the Chat forum. I've practised mindfulness before for stress reduction, but nor recently, time to get back on it.
Did anyone take longer to do sweet spot base than it says?
Im struggling to fit in 3 sessions a week, plus a ride on the weekend and I play basketball. Ive managed up until now to do 3 weeks of it but can see this week only doing 2. I would do early mornings but i sometimes do gym work first thing.
Its February, is base work, don't rush it, re-do the week if needed.
Three times a week on the trainer done at the correct levels should give you big big gains later on regardless of what your goals are.
@philwarren11 - I was going OK on the Sweet Spot Base until last week when I started with a bug of some sort so I've taken the week off and will pick it up again later this week or early next.
A bit frustrating but better than continually struggling with the sessions for all the wrong reasons and extending the recovery period.
Im struggling to fit in 3 sessions a week, plus a ride on the weekend and I play basketball. Ive managed up until now to do 3 weeks of it but can see this week only doing 2. I would do early mornings but i sometimes do gym work first thing.
The plan I suspect will assume in terms of intensity and recovery time that it's all you're doing. Throwing a load of cross training and a long outdoor ride into the mix and you need to account for that extra loading. That may well only mean a couple of interval sessions a week. Unless bike training is your top priority I'd not worry about it.
What ^^ said. I'm doing the low volume stuff on trainerroad precisely because I also run twice a week; do weights twice a week and ride twice a week outside. Nearer the summer I'll drop some of the other activities and focus solely on riding.
Low volume here too, did sweet spot base 1 & 2 and now starting general build low volume.
Build has workouts planned for both Saturday & Sunday, I'll be doing ditching Sunday in favour of a club run (weather permitting) and bringing the other three forward a day to free up Thursday night (occasional night ride, social) and Saturday as a rest.
Quite happy to treat the plans with a degree of flexibility so long as I don't let it slack off...
Can anyone recommend good TR workouts for 10 mile timetrials? Just coming to the end of sweetspot session I and thinking an 8 week block for some tens is in order. See they have a plan for 40k tests, but wondering if the shorter, more intense stuff is a better choice.
Maybe just move onto sweetspot 2 as a general structure but mix in some bastardness as often as I can?
Can anyone recommend good TR workouts for 10 mile timetrials?
Do you know what's holding you back in 10's?
At this time of year probably longer tempo sessions, stuff like Kennedy Peak. Then maybe 2x20, 3x15, 3x20 sessions building up to threshold work. Look at stuff like Galena, Starr King, Gray. Get some over under work in there as well. I reckon Table and Red Kaweah are pretty good too.
Aside from legs, lungs, concentration and equipment? Nothing, really 🙂Do you know what's holding you back in 10's?
I did my first ones last year so still a beginner. So not looking to fine tune anything, more a case of laying down some raw intervals that would put me in shape for the 25min mark. [was doing 26 and a half last year]. Thks for the workout suggestions, I'll take a look.
Week and a bit off for me appears to have the done the world of good, I've still squeezed in some outdoor rides but thought I needed a break from the trainer.
Feeling much fresher for it and the last couple of workouts have been 'enjoyable' again.
Glad to hear it, Haze.
I've had a week off too (gave blood, felt tired, too much commuting, just couldn't be arsed etc) and did Mills (VO2Max intervals) this evening at 97% without dying too badly.
I'm going to be commuting a bit less now (boyfriend is working at the same place as me for the next 6 months so we'll probably drive in most days) so I'm hoping to actually be able to follow a training plan properly from now on. I'm going to finally finish Sweet Spot Base 2 then do the MTB low volume plan in preparation for the first short course XC race of the season on 10th May.
My second aim for the summer is to survive the Kielder 101 - anyone got any ideas on how to structure my training over the summer? I'll be doing the short course XC league (8 races) through early summer but I've got a bit of a gap between the penultimate race on 3rd July and Kielder (which will clearly be a longer duration than 60-90 mins!) on the 5th September.
Cheers, it turned out to be quite a step up from my usual make-it-up-as-you-go-along to committing to 12 weeks.
It's all relative of course but I couldn't imagine keeping the drive towards the end if I'd have been commuting, it was touch and go those last could of weeks. Hope it frees it up a bit for you, maybe go to mid-volume?!
Let's not get ahead of ourselves!
Plus, the drive to work is so horrendous that I can see myself choosing to cycle instead just to keep me sane (with the option of a lift home after work!).
Week off here too; too tired, then sick. Ebbetts today: bi of a shock as it's the first top end for a long time. Feels great to be back on it though...
Week off the turbo for me too, still rode outside, went to the gym and played basketball so not much of a week off. lol.
Bald Knob last night - **** me that was dull. Had to up the % a bit in an attempt to make it more interesting - didn't work
Bald knob looks pretty tedious. Could try something like Black instead?
Half an hour of easy spinning yesterday testing a tweaked ankle. Been off the bike since Saturday which is annoying 😡
Im struggling to fit in 3 sessions a week, plus a ride on the weekend and I play basketball. Ive managed up until now to do 3 weeks of it but can see this week only doing 2. I would do early mornings but i sometimes do gym work first thing.
I'me the same.
I ride to work, it's not exactly a long way, but it's a 28km round trip which is done in reality 4 times a week, plus a couple of mid week TR sessions if I can, plus I play squash once a week at a minimum.
If I chuck in a weekend MTB ride I seem to live my life in a constant varying state of DOMS with dead legs.
Hope it's doing me some good still. I don't do any of the long sessions they have in the plans - just the interval stuff.
Did both Echo and Priest yesterday - Echo is interesting but Priest is a real struggle!
The Priest is more my sort of thing. Admittedly it's made me want to cry, but you don't get bored!
Bugger. Did Ebbetts tonight. I had seen on here a few people saying it was quite tough but thought...Wow. Shouldnt be that hard? Turns out the resistance remote for the trainer had gone up two notches without me realising - idiot, novice mistake!
Does anyone know if there is any way to retrospectively change the trainer resistance setting on my TR profile to get a better indication of the effort I actually put it to that bloody workout?
Just done my second 8 minute test, 6 weeks after the first (just completed SS Base 2). Pretty big increase in FTP (246 to 270) and while that's good, I'm now dreading next week's training - I guess it will be 10% harder! How do you all cope when you get an FTP increase? Tempted to drop a few percent on the first couple of sessions and see how it goes...It's not like I've been finding it easy so far...
Marvincooper, just as you say, drop it down a few percent and ramp it up over a week or two.
Marvincooper, just as you say, drop it down a few percent and ramp it up over a week or two.
If your fitness has improved and the aim of a certain session is to target certain physiological adaptations what is the point of not doing what you should be aiming to do? It is a mental barrier more than anything at the start I think
DanW I think you're right. Dammit.
I really don't think it matters that much. You were happily working away to your previous settings up until the day before the test, I think a few days to get comfortable at the newer settings is going to make little difference. Better to finish the sessions.
mrblobby that does sound sensible. Not sure I'm up for making the jump in one hit, cold well end in unfinished sessions
bear claw yesterday: i like under overs
lamarc today: 3/4 intervals: it ight be my nemesis - i'm not sure i've ever finished it!
mrblobby that does sound sensible. Not sure I'm up for making the jump in one hit, cold well end in unfinished sessions
not many sessions have massive prolonged amounts of time above FTP though do they?
just change it, its probably nearer your true FTP as you probably got better at testing
Monadnock+2 for me last night. Should've realised it was going to hurt when the description seems to suggest that bumping it down a few notches is a good idea - even the warm-up intervals hurt 😯
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/45254-Monadnock-2
Just tried a re-test on different tyres to my last 6 weeks training and the 8 minute test I did 3 days ago. This was a world different!! I could hear the tyres more so I guess here was more resistance there. Anyway I couldn't get anywhere near sustaining the target power and bailed out halfway through the first effort with my power curve nosediving. Think I will switch back to the other tyres so at least things are consistent.
The point of switching tyres was that I've been training on tyres I want to use in the summer so thought I would save on wear. Going to just buy a new set for when he sun shines, they give a much smoother and quieter roller experience plus I want the consistency of power numbers.
Charybdis tonight, not sure if I'm a little bit fatigued from Sunday but bloody hell that was tough.
2 sets of 3 x 3 minutes at 120%, had to turn the intensity down for the second set...
Carson for me last night. Had to change my resistance setting on the bike and the app to allow for more gears to be able to hit the cadence and power requested. Im hoping the power curve for my turbo is linear so my FTP still kinda stands but ive adjusted it again and it feels pretty good, similar to the others before it.
http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/1698656-Carson
any suggestions for 3 days in a row - followed by a decent day out on sunday.
Sessions i'm liking at the moment are blocks of threshold (lamarc), under overs (bear claw) & ebbets.
Not sure that 3 days of that is a good idea. First session needs to be 60 mins. others 60/90/ 120
palmer: only got 7/10 done but i was feeling pretty shattered weds/thurs dana: under overs; those overs seem high at the time - really enjoyed it though
colosseum: whilst watching Krawatencross online. nice gentle one to keep the legs spinning today.
Well my chest infection is showing signs of fading so last week I did Birch, then Black.
I've just finished Hitchcock - 2 x 15's @ 85% and I must say I thoroughly enjoyed it. Barely raised a sweat, breathing was a tad above day-to-day, and I hit the intervals with 100% accuracy.
Hopefully I'm on the way back!
Finished my 8 minute FTP tests and had a 17W increase as recorded by PowerTap - from 264 to 281. Nice way to see the last four weeks of slogging it out on the turbo has worked!
Good news Kryton, soon be back where you left off...
Just started doing this after a cycling drought and terrible man flu. In a word....disappointed! I've done the 8 min test twice now and gone from and amazing 128 to 156. I'm due to start the sweet spot base low volume on Tuesday so I'll have the chance to have a crack at it again. Thing is, I've signed up to do the c2c in May over 2 days, so there's no escape!
^^ what do you weigh in kg?
I wouldn't concern myself with the figures too much, just enough to make sure the set up is consistent and you're showing signs of improvement.
I'd really like to know my actual power but know I need a power meter for that.
Dirty rider - around 80kg.
Haze - I'm not too fussed with massive numbers but I was expecting more than that. It is a bit of a learning curve though as its a new bike and I've not spent much time on a TT before. On the plus side it is getting better!
156W at 80kg? id check your setup its "very" low its more or less off the bottom of the power profile chart
What do I need to check? Things like TT pressure against the wheel?
id start at the beginning, tyre pressure,pressure on the tyre, trainer road wheel circumference, correct trainer selected, etc etc
Ok, I'll take a look. Thanks.
Finding it hard to keep to a program as the weather hasnt been that bad so riding more than anticipated, so bit of structure has gone out of the window. However in middle of week 5 mtb and just done meganic +2, enjoy the sprint ones far more than steady state efforts.
First xc race is 22nd March so will need to sort the timings out but feeling good for it, turbo and trainerroad has given me my best winter prep yet.
Check out this article for help on getting the most accurate Virtual Power reading: [url= http://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/articles/201655670-Setup-and-Tips ]http://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/articles/201655670-Setup-and-Tips[/url]
-Trevor from TrainerRoad
Any recommendations for an over-under session for a recovering person? Something not too intense, but to get me back up to par before the weekend's MTB racing.
I'm thinking Starr at 100% on Tuesday, then going to Ian Campbell on Thursday at 90%, followed by Laurel at 100% 9:00am Saturday morning as a sharpener?
The race is Sunday 2pm...
Any recommendations for an over-under session for a recovering person?
how about ebbets? very little over (time wise). or mount wood (fnar fnar)
I did palisade last night - Its over under. Pretty tough. But once you are back up and fighting fit its a really good session. My average for each 9 minute block was deliberately just above FTP, so the overs are hard. But its only over for 2 minutes, so mentally, very doable.
Why not just do some basic Sweet spot work? If you are feeling strong, raise the intensity of the last effort or the last sections of each effort?
Personally, the first turbo session after a long break away from it, even if its not a break from the bike and training, is always tough. I usually forget how tough, but when i don't, I try to ease in with something that looks easy on paper
Why not just do some basic Sweet spot work?
I did that yesterday, and some aerobic sessions last week, and cruised through 2 x 15min efforts at 85%. So I wanted to up it a bit, include some harder short intervals (the overs) to start to replicate the racing accelerations a little, yet was using <80% intensity as a guide.
I don't want to spiral back downhill with illness by doing too much too quickly.
Krypton have a look at some of the mtb specific ones, specifically the last week sessions ie stress the system but not overload with a high tss. Over the years if I've ever felt that I really couldn't face doing anything I would always just do a short but sharp session to wake me up but not kill me.
Even have a look at some of the warm up sessions, they are aimed at low impact but enough to get you going. Or something like Katahdin with a lower ftp and not do all the intervals.
Good luck for the race.