TrainerRoad - STW approved sessions

I was just following the Inter Base/Build plans and doing whatever came up, much easier than choosing them.

Couple with some loud music or some TV and it works fine for me

My favourite non intervals session is colosseum. It's 90 minutes long and feels a little like a simulated road ride as it continually varies a little which I find is just enough to keep me interested. It is supposed to be fairly easy but I prefer to adjust the difficulty up to 110-115% to make it a bit more intense than intended. Perkins is similar except it's 120minutes.

Thanks, may check those out as I need to add a bit of variety. Iron looks interesting 🙂

My staples tend to be Gray and Starr King for long threshold sessions, then Kaiser and The Thumb of sorter harder intervals. I use Birch or Black for an easy day. Tried Megantic the other day as a billats taster and that was pretty good. Username is hefin if you want to have a look but it's a bit dull as I just tend to run through the same rides.

Mostly been trying to get some fitness back this year after injury so started the year doing one of their base programs which worked well. Raced TTs in the summer so quite a bit of focus on longer threshold sessions. Season's over so drifting a bit now as I've not had time to sort out a proper winter plan yet. Anyone got any good resources to read about base training on the turbo?

Just Sufferfest 'til now.

I'm thinking of following a program for the run up to Christmas, no idea what I should be aiming for though.

Feeling reasonably strong at the moment but aware that riding opportunities are on the wane.

Something to keep me ticking over nicely?

I've been doing this one and recommend it:

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/plans/97-20-minute-power-accelerator-e3-training-solutions-

All good sessions.

Something without the 20 minute test would be nice, did one just under a fortnight ago and have no desire to repeat it so soon!

Haze, did you need the sick bucket? 🙂

SkillWill, have you completed that? Did you get much of a power gain from it?

SkillWill, have you completed that? Did you get much of a power gain from it?

Annoyingly I've had the last week off as got a dreadful chesty cough and couldn't face cold sessions in my garage.

I completed week 5 so was a reasonable way through it and was a noticeable difference in how 'easy' the sessions were, didn't get a chance to re-test FTP which was a shame but I can genuinely say I noticed a difference, I was clinging on to start with!

Hanging on for dear life for the last 5 minutes, felt a little strange when I stepped off the bike!

Anyone got any good resources to read about base training on the turbo?

Try not to use the turbo for base would be my opinion!! I'm being coached and therefore don't use sufferfest or the likes, but my base training is all done outside for sanity - turbo kept for mid week intensity/recovery rides. I have some done some z2 stuff for fat burning on the turbo - even with a dvd on, its boring as hell and actually way harder than outside.

Thanks dirtygirlonabike. Not got much choice unfortunately as I'm tied to indoors much of the time.

I think much of the cycling approach to base training is modelled on what a lot of the pros' do, who have the time to do it, have pretty packed racing calendars, and race for up to three weeks at a time. Most of my racing will be TT's of less than an hour, and XC/CX races of about an hour and a half, and with a week or two between races. Come from a running background and the LSD thing has fallen out of favour a bit, at least for amatuer club level runners. I'd race half marathons but rarely run for much more than an hour when training, even in winter. So I'm doubtful that the long slow distance approach is a good use of limited time. This is probably one for another thread though!

I will use turbo for base building this winter, knocked my FTP right down, and will stick to sessions of over an hour (sufferfest so it is still variable training) and make sure I am getting 5 sessions a week whether that is outdoors or on the turbo.

Some great input here.

At the moment I'm using TrainerRoad for focused sessions during the cross season, however it will be interesting to see how my coaches training plan can also utilise the software from Dec onwards.

i'm a big fan of the 20 minute power accelerator plan. I also like some of the (similar but longer) sessions from the 40 TT plan.

I think much of the cycling approach to base training is modelled on what a lot of the pros' do

& quite misunderstood. there is a great article explaining that base training should target FTP, rather than LSD & why. [s]unfortunately i have no idea where to find it (the internet somewhere...)
[/s]

[url= http://www.biketechreview.com/performance/supply/47-base-a-new-definition ]found it[/url]

thomthumb, was it [url= http://biketechreview.com/index.php/performance/supply/53-stripped-down ]this on BTR[/url]?

Edit: Beaten to it! Yes, pretty interesting reading and quite aligned with my thoughts on it. Just not seen many plans that are based on this sort of thinking, may have to try and come up with something.

Double edit: Sorry OP if I am hijacking the thread a little! Have you looked at the CX plans? Not really had a proper look myself.

By chance this appeared on my twitter feed this afternoon.
http://support.trainerroad.com/entries/22366164-Traditional-Base-All-the-Gory-Details

Not that relevant to the OPs q but base training related 🙂 My plan seems to be a mix of base (z2 long rides), strength, recovery rides plus seriously nasty sounding high intensity sessions...but then i have the time and my goals are road racing and longer stage races (ie 5 days)

mrbloody - sounds like you might be after the sweet spot base mentioned briefly here? http://support.trainerroad.com/entries/22378304-Base-Training-Q-A

Yes, thanks, suspect I'll put together something based on longer sweet spot and some threshold intervals (2x20, 3x15 - Gray, Starr King, Galena, Eichorn) with recovery (birch and black). Then maybe mix in some more intense shorter intervals on a less frequent basis. Then put some hard/easy structure the weeks. Or something like that... need to sit down with the bible!

Does anyone see any value to the progression style sessions like Piute or Ragged?

They seem to fill a similar function to some of the sweet spot stuff in that they are a building block towards the properly hard stuff in the earlier stages of starting/ getting back to using the turbo.

I used to do something similar before thinking too much about each session and found them quite engaging in a way that some of the long constant effort sweetspot session don't quite keep me engaged... the continuous progression is mentally easier for some reason.

Are these types of progression sessions a bit of a waste though? As above, more reasoning for them is in building up to FTP stuff having been away from the turbo and harder riding for a while

[url= http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/1266-galena ]Galena[/url] last night, a 3x20 sweet spot. Harder work mentally than physically I reckon!

DanW, not tried any of the ramped ones. I guess it puts the most intense stuff at the back end of the workout when you've already done quite a bit of work, which may be a good thing depending on what you want to achieve. Might want to check out some of the over/under sessions, they make longer intervals quite interesting and help you cope with changes of pace when you're pushing hard. Have a look at something like Scylla (you could tweak the intensity to go between sweet spot and threshold maybe.)

Did Starr King last night which is 3*15 sweet spot, felt quite good so think that 3*20 as mentioned above is doable.

Watched the world cup cross races during the session, such a cool feature!

Good work, I like Starr King. It is threshold though and not sweetspot, so Galena is slightly less power.

What was the cross race on? I'm tempted to start a "things to watch while on the turbo" thread 🙂

Can I ask a really stupid question?

I'm just about to start using Trainerroad on my newly set up turbo. I've never used a turbo before, and wondered if you use the gears on the bike or not? How does the virtual power thingy take gears into account?

Use the gears to get the candence and power combination where you want it. If you have a resistance knob on your turbo you can use that as well, but I generally just set that to something sensible for the workout and then use the gears.

The virtual power just works on wheel speed so doesn't need to know what gear you're in. It just knows that for a given wheel speed the trainer will be providing a resistance that needs a certain wattage to spin it at that speed.

Awesome, thanks.

Any other tips for a newbie? I'm going to follow one of the plans on Trainerroad, but I'm not sure which to start with. My aims are to do a couple of XC endurance events in spring and autumn next year (Whinlatter Challenge and Kielder 50 if it's on) with an XC short course league in the spring and summer.

I was going to start with the traditional base programme then use the cyclocross one, but I'm open to suggestions.

If you have a resistance knob on your turbo you can use that as well,

if you adjust resistance won't virtual power be off?

i thought you need to set it and choose the resistance setting in the turbo selection process.

I was going to start with the traditional base programme then use the cyclocross one, but I'm open to suggestions.

i would skip the traditional base; for 2 reasons - zone 2 on the turbo will be dull - i think that steady rides are best left outside and secondly in my experience i've seen much more useable gains by working on sweet spot base or the 20 minute accelerator.

if you adjust resistance won't virtual power be off?

Sorry, yes, Thomthumb is right. I have a PowerTap hub so don't use the virtual power thing 8)

I'd go sweet spot base too. Did that at the beginning of the year having had a couple of years off injured. Got me back into half decent shape for the summer.

legolam - trainerroad had different calibration settings for the different resistance settings on the trainer. If you muck about with the resistance setting then your power readings will stop making sense. Try and keep as much the same as possible between sessions: resistance, tyre pressure, tyre contact with the roller. Use the gears to adjust the in-ride resistance.

CX race was the UCI channel on YouTube, WC round 2 from Tabor.

Some great air being caught on one of the hills

Thanks Chef, shall check that out. I'm CX curious and aim to give some summer cross a go. Though whenever I see any photos it's always of people running with their bikes 🙂

Watched the world cup cross races during the session, such a cool feature!

Is there some feature I have missed, or do you just mean you had a video playing and put the trainerroad bar across the bottom of the screen.

MSP, I read they were working on a way to play video inside the player window, but I just do as you've described.

I was going to start with the traditional base programme then use the cyclocross one, but I'm open to suggestions.

If you can train for over 10 hours a week then that should be OK.
Othewise, the other school of thought is the time-crunched training plan.

I have the display at the bottom of the screen, OK not really a "feature", but the auto start/stop is great as I can't reach my laptop whilst on the rollers.

The Sufferfest video integration is excellent though, (providing you use the matching session profile to video).

I was going to start with the traditional base programme then use the cyclocross one, but I'm open to suggestions.

IMO a lot depends on your current level of fitness and training background. If you're new to all of this then a base program would most likely be very beneficial in building form and getting time in on the bike, if you're already in good shape and can take high intensity training then a time crunched plan could be just the thing.

However I'd say that unless you are looking at racing as your main goal then sticking to a plan will in most cases remove the "fun" from cycling.

Othewise, the other school of thought is the time-crunched training plan.

If you've got a one off event you want to train and peak for then time crunched is good (I did the one from the [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/193403083X ]Time Crunched Cyclist[/url] book.) It'll get you to the event in good form but then it'll leave you spent and you'll need some time off. In fairness the book does warn of this. If you're looking to do a season of racing I'd go with the sweetspot base instead.

Also if you're a newbie then regularly spending 2hrs+ on the trainer at fairly constant powers may be mentally tough.

Thanks everyone.

I "raced" for the first time this season (I was the only woman to enter the regional XC series!) and loved it, but would like to be able to be a bit more competitive against the boys (and any women that turn up) next year. I've changed jobs and have a lot more free time this winter, so I'm keen to make a proper stab at improving my fitness and competitiveness.

I've lost a lot of fitness over the last month or two as my new job is a lot more sedentary (and has an excellent canteen) so I think I would benefit from a decent base programme over the winter. Although I get the point that the traditional base programme does have some epically long workouts in it. I'll have a look at the sweetspot base stuff too.

Things I've learned from my first turbo + Trainerroad session:

1) No matter how cold my garage is, it's a mistake to do the session in the thermals that I just commuted home in.
2) A towel. Don't forget the towel.
3) Or the water.
4) I should really have made sure the magnet was aligned with the speed sensor so that I didn't just waste an hour of my time and a quarter of my body weight in sweat doing the 8 minute test and ending up with no idea what my FTP is...
5) It's a lot of fun (I'm a sucker for pain!)

I might leave it a couple of days before I do another test...

All things everyone learns the hard way 😉

There's a devices tab that'll show you what the speed sensor is reading before you go to the workout. I always give the cranks a spin and make sure it's all detecting properly before I start.

4) I should really have made sure the magnet was aligned with the speed sensor so that I didn't just waste an hour of my time and a quarter of my body weight in sweat doing the 8 minute test and ending up with no idea what my FTP is...

How did it work at all if your sensor wasn't lined up? Dis you not follow the virtual power graph?

TBh, I did something similar the first time I used it, didn't have it paired up properly, and it was on an 8 minute test. Looking back now I'm not sure how I didn't realise it wasn't working properly but it was the first time I'd used it. Luckily I was also running my Garmin at the same time so could use the data from that.

Yeah, I'm a moron. With sore legs this morning.

I just didn't realise there was meant to be another line on the graph with power output - I thought that, as it was my first time, that would appear once my FTP was calculated after the test.

It's a bit scary that someone's letting me do a PhD...

Funny, nice one legolam.

Next time you'll nail it, it is worth it. promise 🙂

Gray today, or 2*20, hard hard work, dropped 10watts average on the second lap.

Watched the following:

Really tempted to try this. Facing my first winter on turbo in years, new baby means I can't get out midweek (in daylight) and it looks like my trainer is supported (Tacx satori) although I don't have a computer which runs Windows or OSX. I'll see what I can cobble together...

Colosseum today, thanks to muppetWrangler for the suggestion, (exactly why I started this thread), 90 relatively easy minutes whilst watching Koppenbergcross

Which ANT+ stick are you using? The ones recommended by Trainerroad are 40+ quid, but then I found [url= http://www.ebay.es/itm/GARMIN-USB-ANT-STICK-NEW-010-01058-00-/271310058952?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_186&hash=item3f2b56f5c8&_uhb=1 ]this one[/url] on ebay for 25€ shipped, which, from what I can work out, is the same thing as the [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Garmin-010-01058-00-USB-ANT-Stick/dp/B00CM381SQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383489187&sr=8-1&keywords=garmin+ant+stick#productDescription ]one on amazon[/url]. Both have part number 010-01058-00.

edit: The amazon photo is incorrect, you just get the small one according to the reviews.

Yup that's the one I'm using, works perfectly.

Another newbie here looking to give TrainerRoad a spin 🙂

bob_summers - Member
Which ANT+ stick are you using? The ones recommended by Trainerroad are 40+ quid, but then I found this one on ebay for 25€ shipped, which, from what I can work out, is the same thing as the one on amazon. Both have part number 010-01058-00.

edit: The amazon photo is incorrect, you just get the small one according to the reviews.

Does it depend upon what Garmin cadence sensor & HRM you have? Mine is what came with a Garmin 500 kit.

So would the above ANT stick work with Garmin 500 sensors?

As long as they communicate using Ant+ to the head unit then the usb stick will also pick them up. Note that the sticks reads the sensors not the head unit.

So yes that stick should work.

OK thanks, I'll give it a whirl then. Was a bit suspicious of it being half the price!

Colosseum today, thanks to muppetWrangler for the suggestion, (exactly why I started this thread), 90 relatively easy minutes whilst watching Koppenbergcross

Try changing the percentage setting from 100 to 115-120% and it takes on a whole new character.

Yeah I bet it does! However I'm trying not to leave my form on the rollers at the moment, only 4 major races, including the nationals left now, so just trying to tick over.

Give it 4 weeks and I might take you up on that.

Just noticed Strava seem to have struck a deal with Sufferfest. What're the odds that they are developing TR style virtual power functionality for premium account holders? 😉

Beehive for me today. Might try Perkins/ colosseum next time I want a longer session.

However I'm trying not to leave my form on the rollers at the moment, only 4 major races, including the nationals left now, so just trying to tick over.

Sounds like a plan.

If I want it to be proper testing I set colosseum up so that the 4 or 5 peaks are just about on ftp.

This afternoon I went against all sense and did the 2 hours free ride session. First 30 minutes were like a machine, the next 90 were more like a yo-yo.

Much the same as has already been said for me; mix of grey, Starr king and Sufferfest. Definitely noticed an improvement over the year, ftp is up about 10%.

I use a suunto movestick, £30 from amazon. GarmIn didn't make a smaller ant stick at the time so this was quite good for the laptop. I also bought a 3m USB extension (few quid on ebay) in an effort to prevent signal dropouts.

In the end it was the btwin speed/cadence cutting out. Replaced with a garmin now, which has been faultless. The extension still improves the signal though so just drop it on the floor under the trainer.

The yearly fee has also been a bonus.

Well, I did the 8 minute test again today (properly this time!). I took the advice of getting a USB extension to prevent the ANT+ signal cutting out, and it seemed to work. I remembered to take water and didn't wear my thermals, but forgot the towel again 😕

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/461656-8-Minute-Test

Great stuff, glad its working for you.

Did Gray again tonight, backed off a little from the recommended numbers but did the first 20 @ 100 rpm, and the second @ 90, so that made it interesting.

As did the Zondhoven race

Did my first TR session of the winter this morning with the iPod for company.
I went for the 8 minute test to see where I'll be starting from and the result was ok. Nothing spectacular but at least it gives me something to work from.

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/460955-8-Minute-Test

i eas planning on doing a test this week but missed the opportunity tuesday. I feel way too knackered to do a test tonight

so which 60-90 minute session to keep me ticking over until i can test at the wkd.

anything like colosseum but around an hour?

1) No matter how cold my garage is, it's a mistake to do the session in the thermals that I just commuted home in.

This is always a problem for me - you go to a freezing garage knowing you will be boiling hot and dripping with sweat at the end. Last winter I did some when it was freezing and ended up having to wear a merino vest to keep the chill of the icy air being blasted at my face off my chest a little.

Sure it's not good for you. Character building though. I decided one of those remote control sockets is the answer so 10-15 mins in when you have warmed up you can switch the fan on, cheaper than buying a remote controlled fan.

I use the shed too, looks very odd when there is snow everywhere, minus degrees, and I'm sweating like crazy wearing bibs, gloves, and no top!

Did Sufferfest's Revolver last night, still loving the integration with TrainerRoad, 16 minute sprints off 1 minute rest, lovely!

so which 60-90 minute session to keep me ticking over until i can test at the wkd.

As suggested Colosseum was good for a variable 90 minutes of training, the others mentioned are more "session" based so less group ride feeling, although there nothing stopping you do Sufferfest Angels without the film, as that's quite a varied session.

Only had an hour to spare this evening so did FIN, knocked out a 15min PB along the way.

[url= http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/466157-Fin ]FIN[/url]

This turbo trainer is an instrument of torture!! The pain!!

Did my first proper workout, following the Sweetspot Base programme. I'm not sure you're meant to do these after doing a 25 mile round trip commute, but it sure didn't feel good at all. Not looking forward to tomorrow morning's commute...

http://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/466464-Gayley

Bit of a training blip for me this week, toddler and work related knackeredness to blame. Did manage to squeeze in a midweek Kaiser. First time since a hike of a few watts in FTP setting. I came very close to vomiting immediately after the final interval! Hopefully get back on it properly next week.

Some good training going on here.

Think you need to increase your FTP setting muppetWrangler!

Had a couple of weeks at my new FTP setting, must have been on form when I tested because the elevated efforts are killing me!

Sticking with the Sufferfest vids 'til Christmas then it's onto Intermediate build 1...

I did my first TrainerRoad session on Wednesday...I did the 20min FTP test coupled with the 'Rubber Glove' Sufferfest video.

I'm not sure what to make of the FTP score....does anyone know what an average score is so that I know whether to be embarassed or not?

IMO unless you have a calibrated power meter, then the FTP in trainer road is only for measuring your personal improvements. Completely pointless trying to compare it to other peoples figures.

Would these workouts be suitable on rollers? Don't have a turbo but do have rollers with a resistance unit and a power meter, standing is obviously not possible on 'em so wondering how often the workouts call for full on honking outa the saddle?

Gaz, you can pretty much ignore the value in relation to someone else's.

The software will use it to scale your workouts, you can use it to compare progress on later tests.

Consistency of set up is key, in all likelihood you'll get a much different value from using a different trainer.

At least I hope so, my figures seem quite low compared to many others!

Would these workouts be suitable on rollers?

All my sessions are done on rollers, no excuses there I'm afraid 🙂

First time for me last night; did the 8 minute test which produced interesting results, maximum heart rate was lower than i expected, but will be good working with power input, (the purple dancing spots in front of my eyes at the end of the second 8 minutes were fun).
Will be intersting to see any results in a couple of months. Does anyone use the training plans or do you make your own up using bits of theirs?
Last year was the first time i used proper interval sessions on the turbo all year round and think it defintitely helped, so with a bit more structure im hoping to improve again.

Lads ... whats the red line on the right head display?

Is it my HR or target cadence (I know the yellow line is my cadance)

standing is obviously not possible on 'em

Standing on the rollers is easily do-able.

Would these workouts be suitable on rollers?

All my sessions are done on rollers, no excuses there I'm afraid

Aye, but for those of us who're relatively new to rollers/inexperienced on them and ride like Bambi on ice...!

Does the 8 min test or Rubber Glove require absolutely smashing it? As it is, I'm comfortable remaining upright and a nice steady pace but think that really pressing on or honking might result dislocating my shoulder and breaking my elbow again...

Think you need to increase your FTP setting muppetWrangler!

Not again! I've only just upped it from 260 to 283 about a fortnight ago after redoing the test. I'm gonna give it another couple of weeks at least before I think about upping it again. I use the programme as more of a rough guide, treating the blocks as a minimum allowable effort.

I think there is an element of getting conditioned to time on the trainer. I've definitely made some general gains but the difference on the trainer is more pronounced than the difference on the road. Feels like I'm maybe 20% better on the trainer whereas on the road the improvement is probably a little less than 10%.

Does the 8 min test or Rubber Glove require absolutely smashing it?

The 8 minute test is horrific and does require everything you got, it's a proper beasting. I would have said that there was every chance that you're going to lose some form in the last couple of minutes of each 8 minute block.

Standing on the rollers is easily do-able.

Easily? Really? Come on, you're being a bit silly. It's doable but not when you're hanging out of your arse and it's sketchy at best.

Cheers all, will probably give this a whirl tonight and try the 30 day trial.

muppetWrangler

Not again!

Well looking at your graph, you either trained too hard, of the FTP setting is too low 😕

Agree that there isn't an instant increase on the road/trail, but improvements come over time via consistency.