Trainerroad or Wahoo Systm or Trainer Day

I've just started using Xert and I'm really liking it. It's adaptive in that it recommends workouts based on your fatigue and training load. It also feels much more balanced than either trainerroad or wahoo systm, both of which burned me out.

There's a bit of a learning curve to using it as it's not the most intuitive, but once you get the hang of it, it's really quite simple, although you can go deep into it if that's your thing.

It's also much cheaper than the others.

I've recently started using Xert (just to throw another one into the mix).
I've been using it since around mid-Jan.

I like it so far, but it's my first experience of using a specific training tool, other than Zwift plans & workout plans gratefully received from robbo.
Initially there is a lot to get your head around, but there's plenty of info on the website, there is a 30-day trial and so far the forum & support has been good.
I use it with Zwift, but it will also take HRM data from rides outside and update your plan/stats. Obviously, if you have a power meter, even better.

It's quite 'free-form' and you are encouraged not to plan too far ahead, which I suppose is different to most training plans, i think.
You can set it for 'continuous improvement' or specify a target date and then choose an improvement rate (maintenance>Slow>Moderate etc.)

There's some good explanation videos on their YouTube channel too, which guide you through how it all works.
It's $8.99 a month or you can pay $99 for the year, so it's very reasonably priced.

EDIT - beaten to it, but my view seems to match the above opinion 🙂

I used wahoo (as sufferfest), for a while, didn't notice huge gains, more that I noticed how unfit I am now that I stopped!

TrainerRoad is probably the more coachy of the two with very specific intervals at very specific wattages. Sufferfest has a bit more natural variation thrown in.

E.g. TrainerRoad will make you do the typical 2x20, Sufferfest dresses it up as time trial or TTT with undulations, and through and off.

I'm not convinced the super strict erg mode style of TrainerRoad is nesecary and sufferfest was definitely the more entertaining and easier to stick with.

I now have a Zwift sub again and just ride round fairly aimlessly. Which is fine as long as I pick routes with climbs approximately the right length.

TBH I think you could mimic both by just reading a few chapters of a coaching book and creating your own workout files to upload to a Garmin. Knowing what 90% of your 5minute power is and repeating it 5 times doesn't need a £10/month subscription.

Edit: Xert sounds good, might give that a go as my biggest gripe with any other program was it made no allowance for actually riding for fun. Sunday clubrun are probably better than 2x20 and an evening MTB group ride probably does 5x5 pretty well.

Try Todays plan. There's subscriptions & purchasable plans on their and it integrates very nice with Zwift if you want to use that way. Workouts also sync with your head unit for outdoor rides.

https://www.todaysplan.com.au/2017/06/follow-your-todays-plan-workouts-on-zwift/

Another Xert fan here. Some of the other brands have copied some of the features now, but it still works really well as someone who doesn’t often know when they’ll get a ride in

Whats not working for you on Zwift?

There are some really great workouts on there, but I do find it hard to navigate and find them. I sometimes find it easier to go on the 'whats on zwift' website, search for the kind of workout I want to do (vo2 max, sweetspot etc) and then find it on zwift.

As said above, I find a lot of the platforms have the same workouts just dressed up in different ways. So once you know what you are doing, you can kind of use any of them.

The thing I like about Zwift is if you don't fancy a structured workout you can just ride a route, join a group, do a race etc.

Having said that, I did used to love a good Sufferfest sesh, with some of the wacky humour.

Interesting. Had no idea about Xert..

Does exert control the trainer, or does it need to work through Zwift?
And is Xert cycling only? I.e. if I uploaded running data, would it add that into the mix?

I think my issue with Zwift is my desire for structure (and also, I'm keen to streamline to my subscriptions if possible, although that's not a deal breaker for me)

I used Xert quite a lot when I used to care about performance, and I would say it's great at what it does - nothing out there comes close in terms of adaptability and personalisation, although others are starting to close the gap. That said, it gives you nothing in the way of entertainment (Zwift, Wahoo) or cross-training (Wahoo) so you will need something else to occupy your mind - but that could be as simple as music, podcasts or Netflix.

Does exert control the trainer, or does it need to work through Zwift?

There is an Xert ConnectIQ app for Garmins which can control your trainer, yes. [edit] There are similar apps for iPhone & Android.

And is Xert cycling only? I.e. if I uploaded running data, would it add that into the mix?

You can do both cycling and running, but Xert recommend using 2 seperate accounts for this (they will set up a second account for you on request, within the same subscription).

https://www.strava.com/activities/8607070625

Interesting long post on this activity from Vegan Cyclist that’s kind of relevant. And sort of fits with where I’m at with training now.
Use what you enjoy in a structured fashion.

Zwift is actually an ace training environment. There’s every length hill you could wish for for hill repeats, almost continuous endurance rides heading out, pace partners for every level and of course races for when motivation is flagging.

It’s actually what’s drawn me back to Friels training Bible book- the workouts are based in reality: “Ride around taking in a few hills” or “Group ride. Work on the front if feeling it, pull off and ride alone if not” or “ride mostly in z1 and 2”
But what’s truly important is how you organise your week, month and season. (Some variation of hard, easy, harder, easy, hard, easy, hard, repeat for 3 weeks- recover. )

benman
Free Member
Whats not working for you on Zwift?

There are some really great workouts on there, but I do find it hard to navigate and find them. I sometimes find it easier to go on the ‘whats on zwift’ website, search for the kind of workout I want to do (vo2 max, sweetspot etc) and then find it on zwift.

In comparison to Xert (and the others to be fair) it always feels like the poor relation. I log in to Xert and it suggests what I should be doing (can alter depending on your time available or how good/bad you feel) and gives alternatives if I don't fancy that particular workout. Zwift . . . might as well be a list. It's hard to find what you're after and it doesn't have suggestions if not doing structured training. I've ended up with a Zwift + Xert subs as the latter is so much better at this

dhague

There is an Xert ConnectIQ app for Garmins which can control your trainer, yes.

I control Xert through my phone or tablet - the Xert EBC app. You can do it through a bike GPS as well, as mentioned.

With Xert you do not need to use Zwift - it will run on it's own with the trainer.
Or you can run Zwift, but control the trainer through Xert - doing that allows Xert to control the workout, but Zwift will still get the power & cadence data so your avatar will move around the Zwift terrain as it would normally.

You can also export workouts to Zwift and run them directly through Zwift although this is not the preferred method, as you lose some of the functionality of the workouts (SMART workouts where interval time & effort are adjusted dynamically based on how well you are performing the workout).

dhague

You can do both cycling and running, but Xert recommend using 2 seperate accounts for this (they will set up a second account for you on request, within the same subscription).

This is no longer correct. You can now set up profiles within your subscription & have a running and a cycling profile. Runs get dumped in your run profile & cycling gets dumped in your cycling profile.
Info here:

https://baronbiosys.com/glossary/multisport-profiles/

I've been using Xert for a couple of years now and I think its excellent. There's a good FB group where the guys who wrote it answer questions and they have a series of good tutorials on Youtube now. A number of other platforms have copied what they pioneered. For adaptive training I think its the best and answers the perennial question of 'what do I do if I just go for a ride with my mates?'.

You get a months free trial and I think its about £8 a month.

I create all my own workouts in TrainingPeaks and ride them from the TP folder in Zwift, but you'll need a premium account so won't avoid two lots of subs.

Pretty easy to create workouts in the calendar and once you have a format sorted for a workout type you can copy and tweak it however you want for progression, workouts don't need to be anything complicated to be effective.

Riding them in Zwift provides a bit of visual stimulation, you'll also keep the usual race options and pace partner rides when you fancy a free ride.

You can also link a free TrainerDay account with TP and ferry workouts from there into Zwift if you don't want to create your own or fancy something different.

Premium account can be paid for annually with a British Cycling discount which work out a fair bit cheaper.

Trainerroad is appealing, but I worry it overcooks everyone with Sweet Spot

Follow a sweetspot plan but reduce the intensity of one (or more) of the workouts...or swap it out for Z2 session?

I've used Trainerroad, Zwift and Sufferfest (both sufferfest and the now Wahoo System)

I've not found any of them to be amazing. I've also been coached and this had a huge difference. Individuality is massively important. Out of the systems you mention that I've used, I probably seen the best gains with following a Sufferfest plan. But then you have to factor in lots of other variables, what goals I had, what fitness level was I at when starting etc. I would say I did Sufferfest when I was younger, had more time to focus on training etc/eating well/less life stress. Fitness wise I was probably in a position where I had a lower ftp that would move quicker towards my target (probably my max I could get to). When following a Zwift plan I was already in a higher fitness position so would only see smaller gains.

Biggest negative on any of the plans is the fact that they are fairly rigid in their approach. Don't necessarily have the flexibility to factor in lifestyle challenges (work/family commitments etc) and then how to adapt the training plan.

Doing some Zwift plans last year, it just seemed to be continously hard. Very few workouts within the plan that would allow for recovery. Sufferfest was similar but the Wahoo System now seems to allow for a couple of easier workouts each week.

w00dster
Full Member

Biggest negative on any of the plans is the fact that they are fairly rigid in their approach. Don’t necessarily have the flexibility to factor in lifestyle challenges (work/family commitments etc) and then how to adapt the training plan.

This is the one of the main advantages of Xert. It looks at the training you've done & how you have set your improvement goals up & adapts the training recommendations based on this. If you are ahead of schedule it tells you and suggests changes you could make. If you are behind it does the same.
It also learns your routines & suggests workouts based on your normal patterns.

If you change your requirements at any point, it all updates.
One of the big issues I had with Zwift plans was the rigidity of it all.

If you haven't looked at it so far and you have a strong enough device to run it, it might be worth looking at the free Mywhoosh app.

I've not bothered with a proper training plan since doing the brutal TT Tune-Up back in '20 on Zwift. It doesn't follow the common trend for Zwift plans that rarely focus on a specific interval type for a single workout. Was great for repeating and recovering from big efforts for me.

But starting from ~2.5W/Kg just after flu in Oct '21 when I'd normally be 3-3.5W/Kg, I got a whisker away from 20mins 4W/Kg last spring and summer, by mixing increasing amounts of sub 20min z4/5 Zwift races (not racing tactically, simply trying to meet my power goals for race duration) with longer z1/2 rides.

I like the TrainingPeaks calendar for dragging and dropping workouts around to suit other commitments, really easy to shuffle things around while keeping an eye on the wider picture.

Intervals.icu will do the same, I didn't find it quite as intuitive when I used it but accept I'm probably too familiar with TP and it may have changed since. Can also be linked with TrainerDay so planned workouts can be easily shipped into the calendar, however exporting them into Zwift (for example) took a little more work.

$4 per month plus your Zwift sub.

I use trainer road and it’s ok. Been using it on and off for a couple of years - I started with no previous training experience.

It does do a lot of sweet spot for a big chunk of training plans - I think this is meant to be a shortcut for people that don’t have the time to do hours and hours of z2 to develop base. I always do the low volume plans - I do the 2 sessions on weekdays and then replace the weekend workout with an actual mtb ride.

I think if I did much more turbo based workout at the intensities suggested I might burn out a bit.

If I get to a training day and I’m tired / not feeling it / have work getting in the way of a longer session then I like you can go into ‘alternatives’ and pick a similar but shorter session to do instead.

I keep wondering about trying Xert - mainly because it’s a chunk cheaper. But I’m making progress at the moment so don’t want to mess that up.

Wahoo for me. Could pay it for the year, have different rides you can do with system or RGT. You can make your own rides with magic road, you can try it for free for two weeks without any card, the 4DP test is way better than standard FTP. Couple the info from wahoo with garmin connect or intervals.icu gives you a great way to get fitter. The tailored training you get from wahoo appears much better as well.

I do a mix of HIIT and Z2 (60-90 mins) and I've seen significant increases in fitness since I properly started in December.

Just cancelled my wahoo systm subscription after using it for a year and while I think it’s really quite good, I found the training plans just too rigid to work with family / work etc.

I know you can move each workout, but just didn’t
Work for me.

Used TR and that was good, but preferred Wahoo SYSTM. Never really gelled with Zwift, the graphics are good though.

I need something to get back to cycle for over the next three months.

Fancy a change, how does Xert work ?

Ideally I’d like to keep the cost down, quite why I have a smart trainer but need to spunk £140 or so a year on a software app for it to be useful does irritate.

remember a there are free stuff on wahoo. You can still do stuff depending on your time. I don't use the training calendar though. I get a ride in when I can too with family and work.

When you thought road riding couldn't get any more miserable, you discover the community that does it virtually in their garage....

😉

TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR
Full Member
When you thought road riding couldn’t get any more miserable, you discover the community that does it virtually in their garage….

Yeah but at least you aren’t getting knocked off your bike by a car……and road bikes are just fitness / pain devices anyway

I’ll bite…nothing miserable about cycling…and needs must over winter at times, reap the benefits in spring 👍

Missed this reply, didn’t know that. Thanks will take a look at the free stuff in systm or wahoo x or whatever they’re calling it this week.

@poah

remember a there are free stuff on wahoo. You can still do stuff depending on your time. I don’t use the training calendar though. I get a ride in when I can too with family and work.

@walowiz the fitness tests on system are free