[Closed] Trails Blocked in Surrey Hills

Well the old ending of Barry Knows Best was blocked off officially. There may be other trails which the ranger has deemed not part of the "legacy" network and has therefore blocked? Not certain which bits you mean.

Any new trail is likely to get this treatment because Hurtwood ave decided that new trails ain't happening.

The Ranger's blog mentions a large number of fallen branches due to the weight of snow - possibly the blockages are random? Trails blocked intentionally will be obviously chainsaw cut.

No these are chainsaw cut and laid very neatly. Some examples are the steep roll in to Peaslake car park from the graveyard side and the trail leading down to Telegraphs car park from the south west. Of course these not possibly on the 'official' list of trails but are very popular nonetheless.

Rob I saw some of these on the T trails on Sunday and the first thing I said was someone had placed them there. Matey said- just not cleared as they've fallen on the snow. Thing is- looked around (i.e. NOT on the trail and there is nothing similar).

It really does look like someone is placing branches across the trail.

Interesting - will investigate. There is still a good bit of negative feeling about mountain biking locally, despite our best efforts.

That drop into Peaslake car park is illegal though, dunno which car park you're meaning by the Telegraph one.

I think some of those trails are being closed as they're unsustainable.

I assume this is the last little chute on the T4 that has been put out of bounds.

Bummer that was always a laugh.

Umm we know it as telegraphs car park, its the one on your right as you come into Holmbury south from Abinger Hammer. There are a network of trails descending into it from the south west (so south of the main fire road heading up and out). They are acutally blocked by felled trees which have been cut down and in some cases still attached to the stump by the bark.

Ah well lots of other stuff up there.

I think I know where you mean now - not surprising because some of those trails pop out on to a busy fire road. Some bikers just don't give a monkey's and are very indiscreet when they come out into the path of (or even just near) other people - dog walkers, horse riders - and those people have ruined the situation for the rest of us.

Be stealthy, be (excessively) polite and considerate and we might hang on to the rest of our trails. We have long since stopped riding past horses for example - we always stop completely and let them ride past us.

Not blaming anyone here, by the way.

Luckily I always find the the walkers, horse riders etc. quite friendly. My group always slow down and recite the "good mornings" but as with anything there are the few who are inconsiderate I suppose. I think its probably a concern about the state of the ground given the current gloopy conditions, the tyres can really rip it up. However, some of the blocking is quite dangerous as it hidden round corners etc.

Nowhere near you guys but sorry to hear. Unfortunately a group of three t**sers can outdo all the good work that 200 considerate/polite/discrete users can do. It's not just restricted to use MTBers.

Used to get the same on Cannock Chase in the early mid 90's (possibly still do). Huge numbers of riders would mix happily with walkers then along come 3 or 4 "doing the latest trendy thing" types, pulling wheelies, racing past dogs/walkers etc and suddenly everyone on a bike is a maniac.

Hope that you can get it sorted without losing all your access in the area.

Nothing obvious on the Hurtwood site. My guess is it's not the ranger as he is taking new trails out of service and if these are the ones I'm thinking of then they've all been in use for yonks. Anyhow doesn't sound too promising 🙁

This sounds like an area suffering hugely with its honey-pot status.

We have to try and keep the fragile balance - this is why I bristle a little bit when I see out and out freeride bikes and stormtrooper outfits and so on. I have met people who live in Holmbury but don't feel safe or comfortable walking on Holmbury Hill at the weekend - now that can't be a good thing.

Anyhow - first I will find out who the chainsaw guy is… will report back!

its getting a bit busy there I must confess, it's all good but you get a good few hundred people past Peaslake stores on a rainy Saturday I'm told.

Only way to avoid it is to go up there at the crack of dawn now.

I'm sure Peaslake stores are happy - maybe keeps them in business so good for the village folk.

haven't ridden there recently but always suspicious about the number of trees/ branches that "just happened to fall" across the bridleways in Winterfold wood

news to me (hurtwood mtb trustee) although that doesn't rule out official Hurtwood activity. Have just tried to call the ranger without success. will email and establish facts now. Usually he puts signs up as well. unlikely that anybody else would be using a chainsaw, especially felling trees, and certainly shouldn't be if not the ranger. THere is felling works due at some point along the telegraph road hill - can't remember the dates but we were warned.

reply from range:

"We re-blocked off two trails before Christmas, the one that goes down into the Felbury car park No.9 more or less run parallel with the fireroad into that car park, comes out left of the gate as you look uphill. The other one is the alternative BKB one, which had some considerable jumps added the week before we blocked it. So we’ve only blocked the same two trails we’ve been blocking for the last year 18 months. Walking Bottom car park had a large Oak down near the wooden gate onto the Hurtwood, that we cut up and made safe, but shouldn’t have blocked anything? Locals? We cut the jump out at the top of Lawbrook lane on the left as you exit the village, opposite the layby before the road comes out onto Shere road, and we did some North shore type stuff on the right as you nr Pitch Hill car park. That’s all we’ve done anything else is possible snow damage breakages, that possibly the locals may have dragged across trails. If anyone one sees chainsaw cuts anywhere else I’d like to know."

He's a busy guy! still too many renegade builders out there giving us a bad name and costing the Hurtwood charity money to deal with (and they will always deal with it so guys just give up if you read this).

So if you definitely saw chainsaw cuts that are not on this list can you please advise here with the nearest u can get to an OS co-ordinate/exact location.

Thanks.

I was with Hora (I must be the one referred to as "Matey") and the branches we saw were definitely brought down by the snow, unless someone had the weirdest and most knackered chainsaw in the World. They could possibly have been dragged over the trails but it's unlikely as I don't think I've ever seen walkers on the trails we were riding.

Stopa How was the ride? sorry i couldnt make it!!

Off to germany later today for more cold shitty weather!!

RB

Was okay Ratters; the fireroad climbs were a bit of a shitter as they still had a lot of snow on them but the singletrack was nice, if a bit wet. Thing is, it was that wet that the mud was liquid, so easy(ish) going. Hora rode like a puff, of course.

We parked in coldharbour and rode summer lightning and sacked it!

only as the "rodies" i was with where Crap Even worse than hora.

Lowering on Summer Lightning ffs!

Sounds to me like the Ranger has done his stuff in just a couple of places and the rest is fallen boughs from snow. Some of the pine branches that have fallen are really massive yet have tumbled a long way - I was looking at one the other day and could not see where it had fallen from, yet it could not have been dragged either.

1111/ratters- I rode Summer Lightning on Sunday (got my days mixed up)- apart from the approach to the start of Summer Lightning the whole lot was fine/snow free. I did come across a large group halfway down though that had left a bike in the middle of the trail- you werent with them were you?! Weirdly Landslip carpark etc- was snowy yet Deliverance side etc was totally clear of snow!

OP here again; no one particular trail blockage was definitely felled by saw, not snow. The others were blocked with branches which, if due to snow, must have been gathered from distance (unless one particular heavy snowfall occurred just on that trail!). I haven't been back since but am due there on Sunday so will take camera. The trails haven't had anything artificial built on them.
Rob

I saw this and its deffo the rangers work. The annoying thing is that its an old trail he has blocked, not the newer illegal one just up the path. I thought the agreement was that legacy trails can stay, this one has been used for years

I haven't ridden the area this year yet, and I only live a 15 min drive away. I have mixed feelings about it really, whilst I rarely ride the boring (to me) 'popular trails' like Telegraph and BKB (sorry trailbuilders, just my opinion) they are useful as a means to getting to other trails and tucked away areas. Blocking them is an inconvenience to me, but I won't really miss those trails, and can sympathise with some of the local view. The place really has exploded with Mtb'ers in the last decade, especially the last few years, seems to be the same at Swinley/Brackenell reading the posts on here. I think it's down to magazines like MBR (I may be wrong) with features siting 'Telegragh' etc as trails worth travelling to - from London. On a Sunday the area around Peaslake is brimming with so called 'trail centre bikes' (sorry Spesh owners et al) yet, twenty minutes riding away, hardly see another soul, let alone biker.

If I'm fortunate enough to have time to ride the area during the week, Peaslake is a ghost town - or should I say village!

I don't have any leanings either way, the above is an observation, that I'm not totally shocked that the rangers are taking action to preserve what THEY value. We used to ride regularly with one of the NT rangers there, which helped with public relations, and seemed to relax their view a bit.

so called 'trail centre bikes' (sorry Spesh owners et al)

Spesh bikes are 'trail centre bikes'?

Agree that you can stay away from people up there if you want to though, Winterfold is usually totally dead even in the height of summer!

Had a few run ins with a guy when we were putting in T.0 who was putting logs and branches across the trail as we were building it and the same on XP when we carried out some maintenance a while back. The same happened with XP when it was first built, every week there was intentional debris across the trail which went on for a month or so and then stopped (they may have got bored?). Its nothing new and can understand the "locals" getting a bit cheesed off TBH as the place gets a bit swamped at the weekends.

Does make riding at night a bit more fun/chalenging though?.

If you go early enough it's pretty dead, I'm usually up there at 7.30 and it's fine.
On the one hand it's brilliant that more and more people are getting into MTB because it gives us more of a voice and leads to some really well made trails being built which can be fun, if a bit tame. On the other hand I really do fear that with the numbers involved there will be a time when it'll be designated areas only for MTB which would be tragic for those of us who like to go off pieste.

The Surrey hills are a victim of their own success I suppose but I'm not sure it's really that bad only on the hottest days in summer does it get a bit too busy.

I count myself damn lucky it's my local spot and can't blame other people for wanting to ride there..

I have two questions. First what is it that people think the locals are actually upset about? Second assuming there is something that they are upset by in what way is that concern legitimate?

As far as I can tell the only thing that might upset the locals is that a large number of people use the woodland tracks near to where they live either on bikes horses or foot. When you put it like that though it sounds ridiculous. It's barely any different to someone living in London getting upset with all the people coming to shop there.

If nothing else their concerns aren't even remotely legitimate; anyone has as much right to access the Surrey hills and the surrounding villages as anyone else.

The concern about sustainabity is valid but is the preserve of the land owner not the locals and every step is being taken to ensure that those issues are addressed.

The overwhelming two complaints I've heard are high speed riding too near to people on foot and their dogs. Big muddy patches caused by bikers not going through the mud but going round.

Perfectly reasonable complaints and related to about 5% of the users over there.

It's the stormtroopers I tells ya...

I've just checked with Jeff a middle aged bloke in my office who lives near pitch and that's his beef anyway.

I can assure you that their concerns are heartfelt and in a lot of cases quite valid.

People feel that bikers are intimidatingly fast - bikers need to slow down [b]completely[/b], as in right down to walking pace plus walking pace, when they get anywhere near walkers. Or just stop. Your perception of speed on a bike is totally different to a family strolling with kids and dog.

People also feel that bikers are arrogant and are not sharing their experience of the countryside - they think we are on an adrenaline ride and not tuned into the outdoors in a wider sense.

Also there are conservation issues beyond just simple erosion. Ground nesting birds and lizards for example. A lot of creatures need an extended patch to feel comfortable and thrive, not just ever decreasing isolated patches hedged by a maze of mtb tracks.

Plus there are genuine health and safety issues. Liability is a worry for land owners, but also a general concern that most people don't want serious injuries happening regardless of blame or litigation. The poor guy that broke his neck for example - that situation is not suddenly ok just because no law suit was pursued - he still broke his neck.

The Ranger will leave "legacy" trails - but you might have a different list in mind to him!

More visitors is generally a good thing. It helps the local economy (we aren't a theme park here - it is a real place with people earning a living and bringing up families etc) and that is one reason that bodies such as Surrey Hills AONB are behind cycling. But there has to be some harmony and tuning-in.

Spot on I think. The "damage the bikes do" is the main complaint I get. Generally every large group will have a variety of attitudes and that includes the walkers/horse riders as a small minority go out of their way to be impolite and obstructive. But then if I am out walking there with the GLW and the stormtroopers come charging past on a footpath I do get a bit "anti" myself (for about half a second anyway).

The few times I've walked around there, my only issue has been the dicks riding too close/fast either barely in control or in one spectacular case totally out of control (he visited the scenery shortly after almost running my other half down).

The vast majority of riders though were perfectly courteous and well behaved.

Surely the more trails the rangers block, the more bikes and walkers will be forced to come into contact with each other.

mikey - yep. And the bikers will have to slow down and give priority to walkers and horses.

So surely it is in the ranger's, and the areas, interest to promote the building and maintenence of a series of bike specific trails, rather than going around closing them down. Let's face it: Mountain biking is progressing as a sport and our trail networks just can not keep up.

That is precisely what the BKB and Parklife/Yogurt Pots work has been about. But the logic does not extend automatically all over the hills. Similar work is hoped for on Leith, but there are land-owner issues there.

Even when there are dedicated mtb trails walkers have priority.

The Hurtwood, or anywhere else for that matter, don't support mountain biking as a sport - they support enjoyment of the countryside by bike.

Check out the post today about friends wanted to ride with. One chap noted his club recently had a ride which 43 riders were on, in the North Downs. OK - they may not have been on Pitch / Holmbury / Leith, but large groups are not helping either with the erosion issue or the perceived dangers to walkers etc.

As long as they were on the North Downs I don't mind! Mind you, they probably were on Surrey Hills and just didn't know what its called.

The Hurtwood, or anywhere else for that matter, don't support mountain biking as a sport - they support enjoyment of the countryside by bike.

... and there lies the crux of the matter: Whether they like it or not, mountain biking is a growing SPORT and is constantly evolving/progressing and people need to stop burying their heads in the sand and actually address the issues.

I would guess, although I may be wrong, that the main problems surrounding the walker/biker interface occur on the main bridleways around the hills. Surely it then makes sense to encourage bikers not to use these and support the building, in an approved location and to an approved standard, mountain bike specific trails that are clearly marked as such and also clearly stating that any irresponsible behaviour by bikers on the main bridleways will not be tolerated and may result in the destruction of said bike specific trails, and maybe, ultimately, the banning of all bikes from the hills.

They seem to have done it with Summer Lightning and Parklife so why not roll it out to other areas of the three hills.

This is just random thinking I am doing here while at work so may not be workable with the current land-management systems.

You can't just demand the facilities to do whatever sport you like wherever you want. Why would mountain biking be any different?

Why would mountain biking be any different?

Because it is an ever-growing sport that heavily utilises this area. Just read this and all the other recent threads. There is something that needs to be done about the current situation.

It's not a case of "demanding the facilities" it's to do with dealing with an existing and ever-growing problem. At the moment, the only logical outcome I can see is for the landowners to eventually turn around and say no more mountain bikes and it will become like the Ashdown Forest here near East Grinstead.

I've done 3 dig days now. 2x Redlands and 1x Hurtwood. Each time, no more than 10 volunteers. Where the hell are we?

A lot of people do want the separate corridors for mtb thing to be expanded. Including me. I have put in a hell of a lot of hours actually doing it, as have lots of other volunteers. It makes sense. But it isn't our right.

The whole situation will not be remedied without much better consideration of other people, whether we have our own trails or not.

If you're nearby Mikey do get involved with the volunteers, if you don't already.

I ride there most weeks and have a nice easy plan to follow that results in nae bother.

I ride up the bridalways and fire roads.

I ride down the singletracks and keep to the right path not cut corners because it's easier. it amazes me than on BYB people cut the corners, my 9 year old can ride that trail without doing that.

I always stop for walkers, horses and dogs if I meet them on the flat.

I say hello to people.

I ride through the mud not round it.

I take the dog she makes friends easier than me.

PPS
I'm on the builders mailing list but have heard about no digs. Since the one where it pissed down all day who do i talk to about that.

I live about 35 miles away and would be happy to chip in. Where do I find out when the dig days are?

The whole situation will not be remedied without much better consideration of other people, whether we have our own trails or not.

I totally agree and I think the best for all concerned is more mountain bike only trails. I do wonder if it is the only way mountain biking will survive on the Surrey Hills.

Send an eail to Hurtwood Control. Won't be anything for quite a while - roll on spring time.

Cheers Glen will do.

Get this.

I've just been talking to our man here who lives in Albury.

He outlined three issues.

Too much speed especially around his dogs.

People who cycle on the footpaths whch are marked as footpath only he says there is one in the valley above his house that is a pure footpath has markers and barriers and yet still gets ridden. ( I belive this as I've seen people do this myself on the footpath only bit at the top of Holmbury.

However this disturbed me.

Our man was walking Holmbury from the top car park by the false pond up to the monument at the top. If anyone has ridden this it's clearly a bridal way and is very heavily used by walkers as it leads directly from he car park to the summit. He tells me there was a chap teaching some novices to do jumps and drop offs in the gully there, jumping onto and across the bridal way, worst place imaginable IMHO. He asked the guy if that was the best place for teaching who told him to F off. He is a really nice reasonable guy not some ultra pissed off nutter and this is how some of us treat locals is it?

WTF??

Wow. I can assure you that wasn't one of us! We have for the most part stopped riding down that bit entirely, purely because it so fast and so close to the car park.

We do sometimes do sessions such as rolling down a steep slope in places that you might see us, but we always stop completely if someone comes through and we most certainly don't use language like that!

That is shocking. I'm assuming it wasn't one of the the 'official' looking classes I see being taught in that area on Sundays..

The other bit that can really cause a rumpus now I come to think of it is the lane leading down into Peaslake past the church. So it's a perfect place to slow right down and throw some 'good mornings' around as the churchgoers sometimes look in fear for their lives when they first catch a bike out of the corner of their eye. Its amazing how quickly you'll get a smile straight back once they realise you are not an evil biker intent on their premature demise...

According to him it was. He described the group as a teacher and students. He said there are three routes and two involve jumps ( I know exactly where he means) and that these people were being instructed. He spoke to what he described as the teacher and was told and I quote "F off we can do what we want on a bridleway".

I'd love to know who the hell that was. Not only behaving like dicks but leaving the suspicion that it was AllBikedUp.

He and I get on well and he has no reason to embellish his story.

Also he is an older chap not all that well versed in the ways of MTB so his description does seem to indicate it was ne of the skills schools and not just a group of bikers.

Not doubting you matey. It just wasn't us! Usually if there is a skills group about it will be us. We do jumps sometimes on the banks down by the cricket pitch, we roll down the slope to the end of Doc, we used to roll down the bank right at the top adjacent to the bridleway cut (but that has been stopped for a while)... I actually can't quite visualise where you mean this was.

I do know with complete confidence that myself or Richard or any of our other qualified instructors would most certainly not tell someone to F off, even if we thought they were wrong.

It's a very delcicate situation, the more 'official' publicised trails that are put in, for the best of intentions - to reduce erosion, the more people will travel there, and the more folk like me, will try and find new natural stuff away from the area. It is a difficult one, I don't pretend to have the answer.

BTW - that was a a bit of a sweeping statement by me earlier regarding 'trail centre bikes' - apologies. 🙂