[Closed] Trails at Badaguish near Aviemore

you can call in a bothy bikes, we picked up a map of the area with the badaguish trails marked on

Click to make it bigger 🙂

{Link removed - see below - Mod}

ahhh, suddenly the trails make sense. We found most of them but rode the stalker track the wrong way and missed the canadian trail

nice one, i need to get back there sometime

please don't do that Geoff, the bloody forestry are looking for any excuse to flatten those trails. and sticking that pic up with the name of the club that looks after the trails is giving them reason.

thanks

please don't do that Geoff, the bloody forestry are looking for any excuse to flatten those trails. and sticking that pic up with the name of the club that looks after the trails is giving them reason.

Eh? But it's OK for Bothy Bikes to [i]sell[/i] maps of the trails, and/or others organising and publicising races on them? 🙄

[b]If anyone wants a copy, email me and I'll send it you.[/b]

AJ it smacks a little bit of you wanting to keep the trails quiet for just locals, club members or customers who pay an access tax (buy the map) at Bothy Bikes.

 
[i]Mountainbikers offers coaching and [b]guiding[/b] in the cairngorm national park
 [/i]

Oh I see! 😉

I'd listen to what those who have spent considerable time building and maintaining that race course tell you.

I took the image down before the mod removed the link.

It would have been helpful to have some of the reasoning made clear without the need to go hunting for it. 🙄

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/newsrele.nsf/WebPressReleases/122117AD3DD90E1380256FA1003DD3FD

I asked for the link to be taken down last night.

GeoffJ originally wrote> Presumably you have FC's consent to run races on their land?
You have to apply for consent for each event. When we "borrowed" the course for SSWC we ran into opposition from FCS, it was only with help of locals that we eventually got permission.

Trails built as race courses often aren't built to cope with big numbers, year round. I can think of a number of "low key" trails that have been ruined by overuse after being shared on the internet. I can also think of at least one race course that a club can't use for events after people turned up in numbers, behaved irresponsibly and pissed the landowner off.

If visitors have to ask locally (bike shops or other locals) then they might be asked not to ride if it isn't in condition or needs work.

To address your edit: not the reason for it not being a good idea to publish details of a race course on a public forum.

Did the route published recently in MBR not include parts of the Badaguish course in order to access Mealle a Buichaile? Perhaps someone should have told them too?

I suspect if FC want to remove the trails, they may do at any time they wish. I'm not convinced that a posting on STW will tip the balance though. A brief search on tinterweb reveals a fair number of postings, images and videos about the course already exist. The cat is perhaps already out the bag and sprintung for the exit!

Cheers

Sanny

marty - thanks for the explanation.

It would have been useful if you could have written that in your initial posting, instead of the Fight Club-esque response you did make.

Surely it would be better to publicise that line than have a policy of no comment to anyone that makes enquiries on the interweb?

Edit: Sanny +1

You'd have to be pretty naive to think that sharing route online or in magazines is always a good thing.

For example, I know of a really nice bit of trail in a country park just outside Glasgow. I didn't build it. Cuts through some private property and the landowner isn't too keen on it. Perhaps you know it. I still use it and I might show someone else it, but I wouldn't tell people about it on the internet.

Over and out.

Above in reply to Sanny.

[i]It would have been useful if you could have written that in your initial posting, instead of the Fight Club-esque response you did make.[/i]
mainly reacting to your suggestion of hidden agendas for keeping the race course on the QT.

Definitely over and out.

[i]but I wouldn't tell people about it on the internet.[/i]

But if they know it exists and want more details, surely it would be better to explain why it would better they didn't ride it rather than just stone wall them?

Hi Marty

I don't think that sharing routes online or in mags is always a good thing. When I write route guides, I make a point of checking that there are no access issues that a guide would only make worse. I have to admit I was a bit surprised when I saw the route in MBR but hey ho, that's life. As soon as two folk know about a trail, the word will always spread. I suspect that many folk only know about the trails as a result of the publicity that went with the SSWC. Therein lies the rub. Keep it secret and let only locals use it or hold a race on it then hope that folk won't post on forums about where the route goes. 😀

Hi Marty

I don't think that sharing routes online or in mags is always a good thing. When I write route guides, I make a point of checking that there are no access issues that a guide would only make worse. I have to admit I was a bit surprised when I saw the route in MBR but hey ho, that's life. As soon as two folk know about a trail, the word will always spread. I suspect that many folk only know about the trails as a result of the publicity that went with the SSWC. Therein lies the rub. Keep it secret and let only locals use it or hold a race on it then hope that folk won't post on forums about where the route goes. 😀 I completely respect and share your viewpoint. I just think it may be a losing battle!

Cheers

Sanny

Cheers

Sanny

mainly reacting to your suggestion of hidden agendas for keeping the race course on the QT.

Well, like I said, if you or AJ had responded with the explanation you gave in your second post initially, there would have been no need for speculation.

In some ways, its hardly surprising that the relationship between MTBers and the FC is difficult in some areas. If we can't even communicate properly amongst ourselves, what hope have we of engaging effectively with partners?

please don't do that Geoff, the bloody forestry are looking for any excuse to flatten those trails. and sticking that pic up with the name of the club that looks after the trails is giving them reason.

seems pretty clear though?

So you can ride it if you're local but not if you're a visitor?

seems pretty clear though?

Well, there appears to be a number of issues which that statement did not address.

On the one hand, there is the suggestion that FC want to close the trails and that making known the club that is looking after them is reason enough for them to do that;

On the other hand there is the issue about the trails getting knackered through overuse;

Oh and then there is the Caper issue.

Obviously these are not mutually exclusive, but [i]please don't do that Geoff, the bloody forestry are looking for any excuse to flatten those trails. and sticking that pic up with the name of the club that looks after the trails is giving them reason.[/i] doesn't provide any reasons.

So you can ride it if you're local but not if you're a visitor?

Perhaps if you ask nicely and the locals judge that they are in condition....or they are perhaps trying to sell you a bling race bike at the time [joking!].

That's sort of what i was alluding to, surely if this rare species needs protection then you make the whole area a no go zone to everyone.

Especially to walkers who, if I remember correctly, were shown by an RSPB research project to significantly disturb ground nesting birds to a much greater extent than cyclists.

It's not just about the bird though Tap.

It seems if you are local or make the effort to get to the trails, you will find help in riding them. But they don't want them known about nationally so as to prevent over-use.

Seems fair enough to me.

That's right Al,

knock the bait off. 👿

I'm with Al on this

Ooops sorry Tap, I'll adjust my troll-filter.

>Oh and then there is the Caper issue.
Red herring with regards to this discussion*.

A trail centre in that area was knocked back due to Capers, but you can't build a trail centre without heavy machinery and you wouldn't be able to carry out construction during breeding. Race course maintenance has been done outwith breeding season and by hand.

IIRC the research paper that dangerousbeans mentions, found that cyclists were the least problematic user for capers as they tend to stick to paths and capers can avoid them. (Again IIRC) orienteers and dogs-off-leads are the biggest threat as they tend to roam throughout forest, away from main paths.

* although others seem desperate for an argument as usual...

Have you got a link to that research Marty, interested in adding it to my library ;o)

actually, having had a look at a couple of emails on the issue:

"Major events are usually of a relatively short nature (e.g. one day's rally driving) and infrequent, therefore they generally cause limited long-term disturbance to capercaillie when taking place outside the most vulnerable periods of spring and early summer. Control of spectators, or bystanders, at major events, to prevent them spreading their influence through the forest is important to avoid disturbance."

So maybe there is a good reason to "control" access through soft measures?

Dave - http://www.cairngorms.co.uk/parkauthority/publications/results.php?publicationID=58

Slightly OT but I've always wondered how the need to preserve the Capercaillie is reconciled to the use of deer fences given the formers propensity to fly low. 😕

Thank you Marty for giving reasons

Geoff who i am and what i do has nothing to do with what i wrote. I love to spread the trail love but i don't do it to anybody with an internet connection.

Andy

Geoff who i am and what i do has nothing to do with what i wrote. I love to spread the trail love but i don't do it to anybody with an internet connection.

Fair enough, you share what trail information you like with who you like, just consider providing proper reasons, when trying to stop others doing the same.

Really hope the trails survive they are a favourite of mine

I've enjoyed the trails there several times. Just wondering; if they are such a contentious issue, have Bothy Bikes ever been asked to stop selling the maps?

I dunny need a map, I knows where the trails are and I ride them when I want... i leave no trace behind bar the odd high roller track.

for those who dont know wehre they are they are brilliant.
it would be a real shame for the FC to ruin them as they did with a local DH trail in Moray.

I can see both sides here. Having put up a map of Pentlands trails and then seen some of them trashed, there is definitely a balancing act involved. However there are double standards at play if complaints are coming from Bothy Bikes given that they are happy to be selling maps.

Can I ask a serious question then? (wrong forum in general, I know).

I'm going to the area at the beginning of September with a group of about 15 riders. We're going to be in the area and I was planning on trying to find the trails around Badaguish as I'd heard they were good.

I now know exactly where they are but would the people involved rather we stayed away? We wouldn't be there long as it's just a little diversion on a 50km route but thought I'd ask out of politeness.

However there are double standards at play if complaints are coming from Bothy Bikes given that they are happy to be selling maps.

Indeed - or complaints from the trailbuilders or local riders/residents.

perhaps its more a question of scale, selling maps locally is different from telling an internet forum of however many thousand?

This is all very interesting but what about a map of all these trails?

I can't see one anywhere?

😉

eckinspain no bother as long as you and your group are responsible. If it's a minging pissing day ride else where (just the same as many of the trails in the area)

Font, i think scale is good way of thinking about it

That map that was posted up was only printed up to reduce the number of spectators trampling through the forest and stamping on the caper.

We have been asked by the FC to [b]NOT[/b] publicize badaguish.

Regards to the maps sold in Bothy bikes, the scale is different and the shop will advise when the trails are soggy or the caper are horny, they look at it as a method of caring for the trails.

Hell Eckinspain mail me closer to the date and i'll see if i can show you some trails.

The map we were sold by Bothy bikes was for the whole area. As there were only 2 of us they showed us where these trails were. Otherwise we wouldn't have had any knowledge.

They were hard to find though even with a map, so I'm guessing unless you're local or are guided, you'd struggle to find and ride all of them.

Aye - Trailmap No.1 shows the general areas AND the bit where it says "some single track". I still have the map and, funnily enough, it didn't disintegrate when I left the area. That means I could go back, or lend it to someone else to go, without any advice from Bothy Bikes. So this bit ...

Regards to the maps sold in Bothy bikes, the scale is different and the shop will advise when the trails are soggy or the caper are horny, they look at it as a method of caring for the trails.

[i]Eh? But it's OK for Bothy Bikes to sell maps of the trails[/i]

I don't think those trails are actually on the maps that Bothy Bikes sell. However they will show you where the trails are if you ask nicely. The trails wouldn't really support huge numbers of riders, so keeping them semi-secret is an okay thing to do.

I don't think those trails are actually on the maps that Bothy Bikes sell.

Yes they are, I have one in front of me here. Not as clear as the map removed from the start of the thread, but marked on all the same

It's not about keeping them secret. it's about being responsible on a trail that was built for a one time event back in 2004 and has gained a reputation of somewhere to ride while your in Aviemore (generally regardless of the trail condition)

It's also about the FC looking for any reason to pop the trail pimple on the ass of the Queens forest.

I like the trail. A lot of local and not so local peoples sweat and blood have gone into it am i such a tool for trying to encourage a bit of common.

Andy

Druidh

grow up stop picking holes i thought more of you from what i've read.

the chance of average Joe finding all of the trails from map no1 is slim.

(sorry if this does not hold water)

Andy - as I've said above, the only issue I have is of the double standards being employed here. I agree that publishing sensitive trails on the internet can be a bit "dangerous" and I also agree that passing on such information by word of mouth or on a one-to-one basis is a good way of letting non-local riders in on the secret in a careful fashion (in fact, I got some good intell. from Bothy Bikes on another trail). However, Map 1 shows exactly where they are (or at least my 2006 version does).

It was the first trail I ever built and if you don't know where it is, ask the Bothy Bikers very nicely where it is, and if it's not too wet, go and enjoy it. No skidding, "modifying" or any of your trail centre bad manners though.

back away AJ. the special ones have appeared.

[draws curtains]

Pretty well ideal there today, had a great ride

I have 'Trailmaps, Strathspey Map 1 - 2008' by trailmaps.biz (which I bought from Bothy Bikes) in front of me and it very clearly shows the precise location of the trails and also mentions them briefly in the text. I'd consider myself no more than 'average Joe' on a mountain bike, looking for trails.

We have been asked by the FC to NOT publicize badaguish.

So I can only assume from this statement that you and/or the FC have asked trailmaps.biz to remove the trails from their map? The FC can't ask people not to publicise the trails - and then have local bike shops selling maps of them!