[Closed] Trailforks vs Komoot

off road routes won't really be covered by Trailforks.

The issue I've had with Komoot is that it relies upon OSM for off-road / gravel routes, even cycle paths - and if they aren't being logged, it loses out. I've tried a couple of test route plots and I'd not be choosing to go the way it suggests. Routes that I know are available for even gravel; and def. MTB rides just aren't there.

Had hoped that by logging routes in Komoot it would pick up that they exist, and could be used buy others, but doesn't seem to work that way. Jury's out as far as I'm concerned, and if I was far from home, I'm not sue I could rely on it.

Have you tried adding segments as highlights in Kommot? That should allow others to see them and include them in their routes, but I've not had much experience with it.

If you want to add to Komoot then you'd probably be better putting trails directly into OSM. I've added a few over the years - mostly through routes rather than "sekrit trails" though, stuff like the new cycle track along the A9 at Kincraig, or bits of the Speyside Way/Cairngorms Loop.

@scotroutes - well done you. Re OSM, I did look into it and it looked a right faff, definitely one for a retired person right enough. I wouldn't be doing local trails, more the off road alternatives that otherwise would send you down an A road.

It's definitely a faff, particularly when adding to existing junctions or when there are re-routes. The editors aren't the most friendly and there are rules and conventions regarding old tracks. Still, the more that are added, the better. I've also changed the path Attributes occasionally as some will have been added as walkers paths without considering other trail users.

Do you do requests?

Maybe....

I'll look at setting a track segment as a Komoot highlight though.

I'd guess what would be lovely is to point to some GPX fragment and say - add this, it's a gravel route with any additional notes.

I've only had a quick play with Komoot, but to create a highlight from a ride that you've loaded it looks as though you just drop a pin on your track (or start and end pins for a segment) give it a name, add a description and ideally a photo and that seems to be all there is to it.

cool. It's not really what highlight should be but if it forces it to recognise well-used tracks that aren't covered,. so be it.

I’d guess what would be lovely is to point to some GPX fragment and say – add this, it’s a gravel route with any additional notes.

Yeah, but junctions etc get complicated. And if komoot had its own dataset then what would happen when someone adds it to OSM?

It's a good point. Komoot seems to rely on users highlighting certain points or tracks of interest, but I wonder if the trail has to already exist on OSM in order for it to let you include it in a route. So the user stuff is just to highlight locations and trails that you want to recommend (with pictures and descriptions) but routing still relies on the OSM basemap.

Trailforks is more of an off road oriented segment database akin to Strava's but has moderation facilities to allow more sensitive and controversial things to be kept private. Like the way you can report state of trails. Not really a route planning tool though.

Komoot is pretty good. Been impressed with the route planning so far, but don't expect it to plan a singletrack adventure. It'll pick official bridleways etc. That's fine as I don't need a planner for singletrack, just a plan of how to get from A to B off-road in interesting ways.

Not perfect though. I've found it dumping me on footpaths when it's supposed to be picking stuff okay for bikes. Not that I object to footpaths as I'll ride them regardless of the rights of way, but one I did couple months back I found many of the footpaths were just unrideable as they involved stiles, across fields and through areas tricky to even walk let alone ride. The bridelway stuff though was spot on.

Also comes up with other routes people have posted in the area and they've generally been interesting MTB stuff.

OK - looks like the routes might be on OSM, but Komoot has a hell of a trouble being told to take the off road option at all costs; it'd rather send me down the A941 on an MTB than go up and over.

So it returns to the chicken and egg situation, that you need to know the option is there first before it'll let you select it as a waymark.

Are you selecting "Mountain Biking (Alpine)" as your activity? From the quick play I've had so far there didn't seem to be much difference between Mountain Biking and Bike Touring and both wanted to put me on the road unless I forced it not to. Mountain Bike (Alpine) seemed to work better, but (like Gravel) it wasn't obvious that it was even an option. I had to double click on Mountain Biking to select it on the desktop and only found it by accident.

I have Hiking, Mountain Biking, Bike Touring, Road Biking and Running.
[ edit: in desktop version -- I see Alpine on iOS app and that does give me more lumpy option --- ah, double click yes. Sneaky! ]

Running and Hiking will send me over the gravel route, all cycle activities route me via the main road.

Played about a bit more. Would say the Gravel settings are a bit lame! Definitely can get an gravel bike over stuff that's not set up as such. @scotroutes, is that something you can edit in OSM?

The three Attributes that might affect Komoot routing are:

Smoothness:  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:smoothness

Surface: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface

Tracktype: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tracktype

Plus the more generic one regarding access: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

I've no idea what weight Komoot gives to these Attributes, though I'm guessing it is using "Surface" as it generates stats on that.