[Closed] Trail Sabotage, how to deal with it.

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Depends who manages the land - IE public park areas like the Pentlands the rangers might be interested.

Some riders locally got both the police and local paper involved.

If you go to the papers emphasise that dogs use the path and you're worried they'll cut their paws. If you get the dog walkers locally on your side they'll help to police it too.

Police and local rangers were actually quite keen to get involved from what I remember.

In the meantime, keep clearing the branches and move them well away fromt he trailside so it's an effort to get them back. This sort of thign usually dies down with the darker evenings and wetter weather, too.

Don't know the law in Scotland, but when someone did this on a footpath near me (it was only about 100 yards but cut a corner to avoid a nasty road junction) I left a note saying why i did it. I also noted that while it may technically be trespass against the land owner (common land, so in my case i think Surrey Wildlife Trust), deliberately blocking a right of way making it impossible for a disabled person to access it and thus forcing them onto a busy road was a criminal act.

(I'm not sure it actually is, but it did the trick)

What wwaswas says Rich mate, if that fails....

Stakeout!

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Dress up like this guy & wait:
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In the meantime, keep clearing the branches and move them well away fromt he trailside so it's an effort to get them back. This sort of thign usually dies down with the darker evenings and wetter weather, too.

That big old dead fall to the left of the pic was very handy for snapping all the longer branches against. The sturdy logs got flung as far as I could into the undergrowth.

I've reported it far and wide on social media with all the local groups I could find. There wasn't a "bored grumpy bastard" facebook group though so I doubt the culprit has seen it.

If it keeps up or escalates then I'll report to the council / police

Don't know the law in Scotland, but when someone did this on a footpath near me (it was only about 100 yards but cut a corner to avoid a nasty road junction) I left a note saying why i did it. I also noted that while it may technically be trespass against the land owner (common land, so in my case i think Surrey Wildlife Trust), deliberately blocking a right of way making it impossible for a disabled person to access it and thus forcing them onto a busy road was a criminal act.

(I'm not sure it actually is, but it did the trick)

Commons in Surrey are not owned by the Surrey Wildlife Trust (they may own one or more or bits of one or more). Public footpaths do not have to be passable by a disabled person.

Scottish law is completely different. I suppose people get pissed off with mountain bikers turning the countryside into a race track. Can't say I blame them (but obviously don't condone glass and sharpened sticks).

Is that in near the newish houses at Bothwell then? Used to get similar issues when they built houses up near Ballochmyle estate, uber entitled bellends thinking that as they had paid so much for their lego hoose, no one on a bike was getting near their pride and joy....

Nice stealth edit there Nico, still a stupid comment mind.

Scottish law is completely different. I suppose people get pissed off with mountain bikers turning the countryside into a race track.

IME this is not the issue. NOt seen any dickish behaviour out in the hills from cyclists. The excuse when I got shouted at to keep off footpaths was that we made them all muddy. Its folk who think cyclists dont have the right to be there

Wildlife cameras?

Thats what the local guys did at Mauldslie and stuck the culprit in to the cops / council

Edit : just seen your post come up on facebook - Vampire Slayer 😆

[i]Wildlife cameras? [/i]

We did talk about this - motion activated cameras are pretty cheap now and easy to hide at head height so they get a decent pic. I saw someone monitoring some badger sets was using them recently.

Is that in near the newish houses at Bothwell then?

Yep its Bothwell / Uddingston its one of the trails between the Clyde and the castle. No new housing nearby but its almost certainly a self entitled local as its well off the main paths

Aye, the cameras are really good and well priced now, don't know why councils don't use them at fly tipping black spots, one £1000 fine and they've more than paid for themselves.

Dress up like this guy & wait

http://www.surreywildlifetrust.org/reserves/whitmoor-rickford-common

I didn't say i was right, I said it did the trick

We get stickman all the year round. One very problematic trail I cleared on a Friday night and rode it early Saturday morning and it had been sticked the whole way down between 7 at night and 8 the next morning. Got so daft that someone left a note for them asking why, they left a reply saying we were disturbing the badgers. Never saw any badgers but plenty of sets maybe 20ft from the trail. Decided it wasn't worth the hassles as this badger protectionist had alot of time to block the trail, more than me so built another nearby.
On the other hand I often block Strava cuts which do get removed, presumably by bikers who thing stickman is blocking just the straight line sections.

I'd be tempted to build it up into something you can ride over

Aye, I did think that too at some other local trails that this had happened on, but I'd be even more pissed off at spending time working on it only to find the **** has ripped it down a few days later...

sticked the whole way down between 7 at night and 8 the next morning

That's impressive dedication. Can't quite decide if it beats the person who put down a couple of logs and some branches between my clearing them the morning of Christmas Eve and riding through again boxing day (North Downs).

In a lot of places round here the riders almost certainly outnumber the stick persons in terms of frequency through so we've tended to wear them down in the end. The barbed wire stretched between trees at hub height was a step too far though.

Badger setts 20 ft from the trail? He might have a point if a tiny one.

Hidden cameras are a good idea but difficult unless they are sabotaging in the same area everytime.

A cheaper and quicker alternative is to just stick a couple of signs saying hidden cameras in operation in the area to catch anti sociable behaviour.

Chances are that will be enough to scare them off unless they don't think they are in the wrong or they are not sane?

badgers don't give a shit about a bike hooning past occasionally, haven't you seen them beside a busy road?

Badgers don't give a sh*t about being hit by a bike to be honest. I hit one at approx 20mph, straight OTB and into a crumpled heap for me, badger just trundled on its merry way like nothing had happened!

If there is an actual negative affect on the wildlife then I wouldn't build there. Some folks in the local FC reckoned more night riding was increasing deer kills, might have a point in startling deer and them running into a road but the deer tend to be killed by the 60mph cars driving through the forest like it's the nurburgring. Oh and recently letting 4x4 clubs off road again. I won't start on the environmental considerations of the harvesting contractors...

I agree Scruff. Presume you're talking about the Chase?

So a guy sticking a whole trail in the middle of the night isn't disturbing the badgers but a bike(s) riding past briefly are?

People will use any old bullsh#$t to justify their point of view/prejudice.

LOLIng @Stevied but also wow how cool is that!

FC do the opposite 🙂
A tree will fall across the trail so we turn it into a jump, wait a month and bingo they cleared it, trail untouched. And they are fair they tell us off on footpaths but leave our tracks. How ever so many ramblers come along blocking footpaths/trails with logs.

Aye, the cameras are really good and well priced now, don't know why councils don't use them at fly tipping black spots, one £1000 fine and they've more than paid for themselves.

They do. My mate is in charge of a EHO team who police fly tipping and noise issues. The camera's are used , there is signage to say cameras operate in the area to avoid silly entrapment issues apparently . ( east of englandshire btw )

Superb, with my local council were into it.

Its only fair to beware of the context. Rough barriers may well be put there to slow you down and if the route is open to all then that may be valid if someone less able or alert has had a scare from a less than responsible cyclist.
Wire a neck height is different.
Kids do these things to see what happens, I did. We used to dig holes then camouflage them to see if people fell in. Read to many cave men and red Indian books methinks. Horse riders also make these barriers for their horse to jump. Probably as legitimate as cyclist wanting them clear?
I don't buy the , "can't stop in time " line. Any riding anywhere like that is stupid unless its on an enclosed specific track with no uncontrolled access by anything, possible. Riding around a corner too fast to stop is moronic.
It all comes down to the designation for the land. Free for all is free for all. Technically illegal riding is asking for it at this level, specific trails with no other access then the bots on the other foot and complaints to the landowner seem valid.

It all comes down to the designation for the land. Free for all is free for all. Technically illegal riding is asking for it at this level, specific trails with no other access then the bots on the other foot and complaints to the landowner seem valid.

Your point about riding within visible limits remains valid though.

I am involved with Mauldslie and ride the trails in Uddingston we have more photos of the teaps and have been offered the cameras fron Chris. I was hoping the culprit would have got bored by now but it appears not, so if you pm me we can get a camera off him and set it up

Last couple of times I have ridden Woodbury Common near me I have noticed more more sabs at work. Made me think that perhaps a way to report incidents to other riders might be a good idea (not getting to the root of the problem, but preventative) I suppose it's possible to make a segment in Strava with a warning title so other riders know about it? Is this how trail reports in Trailforks app works?

While there are access rights, it may still be the land owner or ranger trying to discourage using certain routes and with concern about risk and their liability.

Technically there's no illegal riding taking place because it's in Scotland.

There's no illegal riding in England either. Just trespass, which is civil law (with some exceptions usually related to bylaws, e.g. MOD land).

theotherjonv - Member
> http://www.surreywildlifetrust.org/reserves/whitmoor-rickford-common
I didn't say i was right, I said it did the trick

Interesting. My local common, or nearest to me really. Think I may know the corner cut through you're on about.

Thing I'm finding with some of the common land about the area is stuff placed across bridleways, but not to stop bikes, but I believe for horse "challenges". Especially given some of those bridleways are near impossible to ride anyway having been churned up so much by horses, seems little point to provide further bike obstruction.

Of course though, these are the rights of ways bikes are supposed to stick to.

#mybikeisnotahorse

psycorp - yes.

While there are access rights, it may still be the land owner or ranger trying to discourage using certain routes and with concern about risk and their liability.

In this case I seriously doubt its anything but a carnaptious local with too much time on their hands.

Its definitely not an official blockage by a ranger or similar I very much doubt they would use pointy sticks and broken glass, nor is it a "horsey challenge" as I've never seen so much as a hoof print in that part of the woods, there are wider flatter parts the horses do use though.

It'll be a dog walker, always is 'I've walked my dog here for years, and a MTBer once went past too quick, when I wasn't paying attention, and my dog 20 yards Away, failing to respond to my pathetic shouts'.....

That type of thing....

It'll be a dog walker,

Ab so farkin lutely. I'm worried the next escalation will be punji pits covered in dog eggs.

If that happens I'm going full Colonel Kurtz on them 😀

😆

There's some chap round Tunnel Hill whose taken to putting up "Private Property" signs up on a section of trail near their (?) house......now unless it's the Queen doing it then they can bog off IMHO - seeing as the land belongs to the MOD......!

The bit of tunnel hill on the western edge where it says out of bounds to troops isn't mod land and is private property.

^ what he says, definitely private and is out of bounds to troops. It's also out of bounds to riders outside of Gorrick races 😉 . It's that it isn't MOD land that they have the race stuff there.

We have a StickMan/StickLady who seems to focus her efforts on one particular trail in the entire local woodland.

The dedication to laying sticks is impressive - they did migrate to string between trees at one point but as the trail is falling into disrepair a little now, they have throttled back on their efforts.

I'm fairly sure who it is, it's a strange place to be walking a dog when I have seen them, considering there is a footpath that isn't muddy about 50ft away.

I tend to leave them to it these days & just ride the other stuff 🙂

The bit of tunnel hill on the western edge where it says out of bounds to troops isn't mod land and is private property.

It's actually off the Old Guildford Road in the NW corner heading towards the B3012, by what looks like 2 new houses.....& it very definitely looks like MOD land - given there are boards up with mapping, the bylaws & a gate stopping vehicle access. I'd be VERY surprised if it were private land. If it were why not fence it off & include it in the garden of the house that appears to be claiming it....(?)

The bit of tunnel hill on the western edge where it says out of bounds to troops isn't mod land and is private property.

I think I know where that is - it's not that section.

Last couple of times I have ridden Woodbury Common near me I have noticed more more sabs at work. Made me think that perhaps a way to report incidents to other riders might be a good idea (not getting to the root of the problem, but preventative) I suppose it's possible to make a segment in Strava with a warning title so other riders know about it? Is this how trail reports in Trailforks app works?

Where or which trails up Woodbury Evil Joe?

We've had a few half-hearted attempts at sabotage on our local bridleways - little more than sticks placed laterally across the trail.

They're good bunny-hop practice.

WE have someone near me who is exceedingly thorough: laying out branches every 50-100 yards over about 2.5 km of singletrack shows a level of dedication that is impressive! I can't complain because we definitely shouldn't be riding there. At the moment I'm focussing on cx anyway so the dismount practise does me good!

mrlebowski - Member
It's actually off the Old Guildford Road in the NW corner heading towards the B3012, by what looks like 2 new houses.....

Hatched area is army.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/51.2912/-0.7009

There may be MOD warning signs on areas that may lead into the land.

Someone near me likes snapping perfectly good birch saplings so he can pull their top halves over a FP.

The weird logic is astounding.

Excellent bit of mapping deadkenny - thank you for that.

Having faced this on/off at local riding spots over the past 20+ years, I just take the approach of a battle-of-the-wills > they block, I unblock and so on. I generally find the blockers give up after a while.

Someone near me likes snapping perfectly good birch saplings so he can pull their top halves over a FP.

We had that a few years back although not over an official public footpath. Total WTF?!!

and my dog 20 yards Away, [s]failing to respond to my pathetic shouts[/s] conveniently off the lead and seemingly invisible to me so I don't have to clear up after it's done its business

FTFY.

strike - Member

Having faced this on/off at local riding spots over the past 20+ years, I just take the approach of a battle-of-the-wills > they block, I unblock and so on. I generally find the blockers give up after a while.

Posted 1 hour ago #

Exactly this - so long as it isn't anything really nasty like wire at head height etc.

I just stand next to the barricade and take it apart, snap any big-ish sticks to make them less dangerous and then throw the bits away around 360 degrees (or if a particular direction makes them more difficult to bring back, they go there).

I reason that what takes me two minutes to clear (standing and throwing) will take at least ten minutes to reconstruct.

Attrition. That and the fact that it is highly likely that persistent sabs are old and bitter and will probably die before me. So [b]they[/b] can't win! 🙂

We had a Stickman laying sticks on a section of South Dartmoor trail, we rode up the trail a few times & cleared them but then found they were back 3 hours later when we returned 🙁 I reported it to the Police as the branches were getting bigger & someone could get seriously hurt riding into them. A PCSO rang me to ask if I could get a picture of the individual laying the sticks & their name & address - WTF?? To be honest if I caught someone laying sticks I'd have my own word with them!!

Recently close to home another stickman has been laying branches & large stones on a local Bridleway, again I've cleared them & a few days later they are back. This morning I spent around an hour clearing the 3 piles but this time I posted them over a high hedge well out of sight/reach. I also mentioned it to a dog walker passing by that whoever is doing it should stop, We'll see if they give up soon or not

I don't buy the , "can't stop in time " line.

I might be looking out for a man and his dog, but not (particularly in autumn) notice branches and leaves on the trail until it's too late.

Combined with some (unwalkable) sections where you might enter at low speed but the slope means you still can't stop - I'll always have a bit of a look before committing if it's been windy etc., but it's definitely not going to be walked on as it's too steep (there's a rope down the side for trail building purposes), so why would I plan to have to stop?

Careful now, you'll have the 'you're not in control' brigade along in a minute...