[Closed] Trail etiquette - slower riders....

Just leave a gap then chase them down.

He got the message on the second descent

sounds like it generally sorted itself out!

It's bound to take a while for a newby to find their place in the pecking order.

If all people can see in front of them is an empty trail and all they can hear behind is tyres and buzzing freehubs they usually get the message and join a bit further down on the next bit of singletrack.

Sometimes following someone slower is quite good as you take time to pick your lines and think about what you're doing rather than just the red mist of 'faster! faster!' that can happen on group rides.

And when it's someone you know you can always buzz their back tyre to encourage them...

Everyone soon learns their place in the grand scheme of things

Mine....

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catching someone and hanging off their back wheel at a much slower speed than you are happy with

How far does it have to go before you say something though. I used to ride with a bloke who always slotted in near the front and then minced terribly down anything vaguely tricky. It reached a nadir on a downhill singletrack path with a small (18") step down into a corner that you can (sort of) hip jump to line up with the trail as it turns.

And he actually came to a halt and lifted his bike down it. It's a regularly ridden trail so by no way would he have been unaware it was there. yet he still got in third wheel and messed it up for everyone else.

I may have loosed a few expletives.......

I think in the back of most people's subconsciousness they are fast, particularly if they don't know a lot of riders or they're the fastest in their group. It might take them a while to figure out the order.

On the flip side, most of us engage in a little false modesty or self deprecating humour from time to time. The fastest guys I know (fyi they're faster than you) will happily let anyone go in front of them for sport.

Rider order should be based on speed everyone knows this

[i]a small (18") step down into a corner that you can (sort of) hip jump[/i]

I'd have been off and walking too. Probably from nearer the back to start with, though 😉

He got the message on the second descent and did get out of the way after a bit of ribbing.

Haven't you answered your own question here pal?

Maybe you should have a seeding run first so that lesser mortals have their lowly place in the pecking order made clear

This appears to be what happened anyway.

There are one or two tall athletic riders on my local group nightride who are pretty funny..

Think flash car, boring well paid job, squash club members..

Numerous times they would nip in front at the starts or use strava lines to overtake, whooping and yelling, only to bail out on a tiny obstacle or patch of slippery mud moments later, holding everyone up..

I'm thinking tiny willies

Generally it sorts itself out if you have a reasonably intelligent group. I'm very usually the last up the hill, but I'm not the slowest down it, by any stretch. It can be frustrating when the fit one with no bike skills thinks that mincing is perfectly acceptable because get to the bottom he'll ride your legs off again.

I'm usually among the slower ones going downhill so I'll just let the rest of the group head off first. If due to some strange some rift in the space-time continuum I catch someone up then we'll sort the order out as we go along.

@bigblackshed - Part of that's me - I'll be well ahead of most of the others on the climbs but I'm not going to worry them on the downhills so I'll just have a breather, take some photos or whatever. Although if I know there's going to be a good photo-op halfway down then I'll head off and get out of the way ready for the others.

You are all assuming the New Rider is someone else aren't you... 🙄

@bikebouy err no. Compared to the gnar-monsters on here, I'm a mincer 😳

Rider order should be based on speed everyone knows this

or sacrificial offering/crash test dummy willingness

I have one mate who is considerably quicker downhill than me. If he catches me then he commentates on my riding from about 6" off my back wheel. It's quite off putting.

To be fair if it is just a social ride with your friends then does it matter that much? Maybe next time they will move aside, or start after you?

Maybe the new rider isn't aware of the need to bomb as fast as possible and is more interest din a bimble about or is a bit intimidated by the speed merchants he just witnessed whoosh off in front at warp speed?

Any regular group rides I have been part of normally everyone became aware of their own speed and placed themselves accordingly on ups or downs with me being at the back of the queue both up an down!

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I quite like sitting at the back and giving slower riders a big head start and then trying to chase them down, improves my riding as I have to concentrate on riding properly..
It is usually social rides anyway so I'm not bothered about being held up.
This weekend I'm being a enduroista so I'll be trying to get out of my comfort zone and crashing all day :lol:, trying to not let the rider behind catch me :lol:.

This is one of the reasons for having a small group.

Nothing worse than a competitive rider without the technical skills to back it up.

They set off early to be in front or near the front of the pack because they want to be first down the hill, which either forces everyone to go slower on the good bits than they want, or everyone waits at the top to make sure they don't cause a blockage halfway down, which causes gloating about being first down the hill and reinforces the impression that they're actually capable of holding a forward position in the pack.

It's frustrating behaviour that's born of having a focus on 'position' rather than 'fun'.

a new rider turns up on a hardtail and isn't super quick

He got the message on the second descent

chiefgrooveguru - Member
Most people learn their place in the hierarchy of speed on group rides but we do have one regular who often singlespeeds his way to the front uphill and then gormlessly minces at half speed downhill, holding most of us up...

😀 really hope he sees that.

🙂

"Do not ride with with this group again"

He loved it!

I've known him years (not seen him for a while though), just first time I've ridden with him - he's normally out with a different group. If you can't give your mates some deserved shit on a ride, then it's a poor show 😉

Binners is a tail gunner?

Didn't see that coming.

used to ride with a guy who had no idea about the natural order of things and would insert himself in the group 'well beyond his capabilities'

very frustrating.

"Regular" rules me out...

I don't get it, if I go out with a new group I start at the back and then gauge myself from there. I hate the thought of holding people up. Also it's more satisfying when someone else realises you are faster than them and let's you go first, feels like you earn your placin the hierarchy that way.

The thing is, the hierarchy is only there so that each individual can maximise their cool beans whist riding as a group. I thought this was fairly obvious, but I think I've been a bit naïve and failed to consider egos.

Depends on the situation

We have a great social group that goes out once a week with a massive range of abilities and the ride is geared to supporting the slower riders. So we like to see them within the pack and not dropped off the back or led into stuff blindly. We have sweepers to make sure everything is OK. Everyone takes their share of time at the back and the front and everyone always has a good time whatever their 'natural' speed.

If out on a ride to just have a blast on the descents, it can be a little aggravating when a rider climbs well, doesn't ever stop at the top and descends terribly. It's give and take on a social blast and it always seems a bit selfish to not even think about whether others would want to go faster down a descent, especially when you know the majority of the pack are far quicker downhill. There are hardly any of those folks about though, most people are more 'nah you go, I'm not in a rush'

I pretty much always like to sit somewhere within the pack or at the back if I'm riding with the fast guys round here, and would definitely rather go a bit slower behind someone than be holding up good riders and getting in their way.

If you've got a known slow rider in front of you, can't you just wait a minute before setting off on your descent? You'd only have to wait at the bottom for them anyway, why not wait at the top instead?

Either that or, y'know, talk to them. "We ride roughly in speed order and you had a faster rider behind you, so we'll swap places on the next run." Probably less confrontational if it's someone other than the rear admiral gnarlmaster asking them.

I think I'd join a club call The Gormless Mincers.

The jersey would be worth the membership on it's own.

and the car stickers:

"I may be a Gormless Mincer but I'm in front of you for the foreseeable future"

"Gormless Mincers Do It From The Front"

Find your place in a group and observe some etiquette by stick to it. And/or earn your way to the front*

*with the exception of road riding where you should do a turn(s) on the front no matter how short as a matter of courtesy 8)

Is this me STR? 😉

Obviously not, I'm amazing on a bike. But is this someone who was new out last night? Can't say I've noticed anyone in the group doing it, except the lad who's normally fast but is on a crap hardtail while his good bike is fixed but he's stayed at the back.

Otherwise it sounds like he's already stopped doing it. Maybe he eyed everyone up and thought we all looked slower than him? In which case surely that makes us mincers the problem?

I think I'd join a club call The Gormless Mincers.
The jersey would be worth the membership on it's own.

You'd need some club rules though
1. All rides to start with at least 30 minutes of faffing about
2. All riders to forget at least one essential item of kit
3. Any rider completing 3 consecutive rides without a crash or mechanical to be ejected forthwith.

Club motto [i]Steady on lad, it's not a race you know[/i]

Surely the best way to integrate yoursel into a group is to go in the last couple of riders for the first section and if you find yourself up the backside of ther person in front, you go ahead of them on the next section and so on until you find where you're not being held up or doing it to anyone else.

It can be a bit soul destroying to always be at the back and get to the bottom of a descent to find your group having a chat and a laugh while they wait for you. You almost feel obliged to apologise for your lack of pace.

I know this from a few years ago and my first visit to the Alps riding with people far better than me.

Surely the best way to integrate yoursel into a group is to go in the last couple of riders for the first section and if you find yourself up the backside of ther person in front, you go ahead of them on the next section and so on until you find where you're not being held up or doing it to anyone else.

Oh, and this ^^

"I may be a Gormless Mincer but I'm in front of you for the foreseeable future"

if i had a chainstay long enough i`d have that as a sticker.

A short?

Just one leg?

I've fitted two forward facing .50 calibre machine guns for this type of bastard (and a rear flame thrower for the other type).

I thought you may be referring to me chiefgrooveguru but I haven't seen you in months so unlikely. If it was perhaps we can pick this up in person rather than on a forum.

N.b. My experience is that those that think they are great riders shout the loudest - the really good riders just enjoy themselves.

😯

And this is why I ride on my own 😉

[i]A short? [/i]

*is grateful he didn't hit a k instead of an h*

Fair enough. In person next time please....

I also think you need to see it for what it is. A ride in the woods...

*feels awkward*

Oh come on everyone!

If you're held up by someone on a descent then a good bit of piss-taking should be standard!

Next descent again? Then repeat! Always with a smile!

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All good banter between mates at the end of the day

.....you sure ?? 😯

😆

I like to hammer into the top of a downhill like I'm going to "Steve Peat" it and then slow right down and get in everybody's way.

Is this me STR?

Obviously not, I'm amazing on a bike. But is this someone who was new out last night? Can't say I've noticed anyone in the group doing it, except the lad who's normally fast but is on a crap hardtail while his good bike is fixed but he's stayed at the back.

Otherwise it sounds like he's already stopped doing it. Maybe he eyed everyone up and thought we all looked slower than him? In which case surely that makes us mincers the problem?

Haha - of course it's not you Luke. An old mate from Wirksworth came out at my invite - he usually rides with MMBC. I kept trying to get past him over Stanton Moor from the corkstone, then he shot off in front again round the edge of the moor, so left a gap and caught him up. I told him before we went down to the old traveller site that he had better get a move on on his ht (banter) or let me go in front - he intentionally gave a virtual two fingers and set off after Dave & Fergs. He gave up on the rocky section though and let me past. I went first on Sheepwalk, so he didn't have the option, then he let me go first on Druids. Still got stuck behind him on Sabine Hay Singletrack though, but wasn't too fussed then.

It was all lighthearted enough though and he enjoyed the ride, so all good

I like to hammer into the top of a downhill like I'm going to "Steve Peat" it and then slow right down and get in everybody's way.

This happens to me naturally as my initial bravado is replaced with an element of realism.

The word "banter" has been misappropriated recently and can mean different things.

This is the correct place for the correct type of banter. That is, gentle ribbing with humour, combined with a direct message.

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I've been waiting here patiently with a cup of tea (went cold,had to make another) and biscuits in preparation for a bunfight.Finally!!

I'm faster than most of my club-mates, but don't mind being behind them. It encourages unusual line choices, which is good fun.

If you can't see the other lines, you're not good enough or your mate isn't slow enough.

Whenever I ride with a new group I always start at the very back and then scream "HURRY UP YOU SHITHEADS" at everybody when they inevitably hold me up. I don't often get invited back.

I ride behind Binners.

😆 @enfht

Brave / stupid enough to say I found comments aimed in my direction offensive. There you go...

I ride behind Darkcyan.

Then I don't have much choice
Typical scenes on a Brighton MTB Thursday night

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In Darkcyan's defence for someone riding a rigid SS he's no slouch.

I dunno, but maybe if those that find slower riders getting in the way rode a little quicker on the climbs then they wouldn't have to worry about them being in front on the descents.

A big big thank you to CGG, Darkcyan is not going to be allowed to forget this in a hurry 😀

In Darkcyan's defence for someone riding a rigid SS he's no slouch.

Indeed, especially with his saddle up at full height!

...maybe if those that find slower riders getting in the way rode a little quicker on the climbs then they wouldn't have to worry about them being in front on the descents.

That's the thing though - we have a wide variety of riders on a wide variety of bikes on our rides. Someone on a 6" full-sus will generally prioritise speed downhill over speed uphill and has a bike which will skew the result further in favour of downhill. Someone on a rigid SS will generally have the opposite viewpoint and a bike that is quicker uphill and slower downhill.

And if you look at it from a STRRRAAAAAAVAAAAA!!! mentality, I know quite a lot of us are cruising the climbs to smash* the descents. *For a given value of smash... 😉

Frequent thoughtful riding order rearrangements during a group ride keep everyone happy! 🙂

I can't help but chuckle when I see CGG boasting of riding prowess, cos I instantly see constant re-runs in my mind of the video of him approaching like a 4 year old girl and then toppling off that tiny step down and smashing into the ground face first 🙂

(just to even up the gormless mincer jibes a bit)

I can't help but chuckle when I see CGG boasting of riding prowess, cos I instantly see constant re-runs in my mind of the video of him approaching like a 4 year old girl and then toppling off that tiny step down and smashing into the ground face first

We need a repost of this video, just to even out the thread a bit 😉

I can't help but chuckle when I see CGG boasting of riding prowess, cos I instantly see constant re-runs in my mind of the video of him approaching like a 4 year old girl and then toppling off that tiny step down and smashing into the ground face first

Yup, but there's dozens of excuses why that happened... 😆

Our group generally take turns at he front on trails we all know, otherwise it's who knows the trail bestest goes first, nothing to do with speed. I've no problems going at the back and often prefer it as i can watch my mates ride their bikes and have fun and can make sure everyone gets down in one piece. It's not a race for us.

It could also be entitled "how new parenthood can temporarily remove all ability to both ride a bike and make good decisions..."

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And that's why I'm never having kids (skipping over the abject failure with women bit).

Eurghh... I still wince every time I see it

Internationally reknowned contortionists that can bend themselves to fit inside a shoebox still can't figure out how you managed to fold your spine like that

Double post

ouch.....

And here's a whole article on how to do it properly, on the exact same drop:

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/article/how-to-drop-into-downslopes-44658/

They could have had the courtesy to publish that a few years earlier, couldn't they? 😉

The top YouTube suggestion alongside your video is 'How to ride drop offs with Fabien Barel' - even my iPad is taking the piss 😀

Ouch! Hope you were OK after that. Kudos for the Ronseal title of the video though 😀