Trail dogs make me ...
 

  You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more

[Closed] Trail dogs make me nervous

174 Posts
84 Users
0 Reactions
547 Views
Posts: 2862
Full Member
 

Trail centres are for bikes and that’s it.

Exactly, that's why we get annoyed by runners, horses, walkers on trails designated for bikes.

I don't have any bother with people taking the pooches out to the wilds, but if they can't be controlled when a bike comes by in a place where a bike can legitimately be, and/or likely to be encountered, keep it on a lead.

I've never been attacked by one, but have had to make mad avoidance moves and had many start to follow me a long distance from their owner.


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 7:14 am
Posts: 99
Free Member
 

The things I have learned on here so far:

The only mtb trails in the uk are in trail centres

Taking a dog out with you on a bike is a fashion statement.

The uk ground is too hard for a dog's paws and making it run on this near tarmac like surface is actually cruel.

Mountain bikers have neck problems and would be unable to tell if their dog had stopped for a dump on the trail. As a result, dog poo is a common obstacle on trails - like tree roots and rocks used to be once.

A dog is only necessary if used to protect you from a bear. But riding a bike in bear territory it's absolutely necessary and fine to do.

I really do feel I've stumbled into some parallel universe daily mail comments page.


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 7:25 am
Posts: 12507
Free Member
 

You forgot children and dogs are exactly the same Scott.


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 9:29 am
Posts: 712
Full Member
 

This thread is pointless. Dog people and non dog people will never agree.

I sort of like dogs but I don't want a dog and when I talk to otherwise rational people about dog ownership they sound decidedly irrational to me. I guess non doggists have to accept dog thing as we sort of coevolved with the pesky animals so there must be some kind of dog centre in the human brain that is activated in the doggist.


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 9:45 am
Posts: 44146
Full Member
 

Dog people and non dog people will never agree.

The key is "is mutt well trained" A well trained dog even at a trail centre is not an issue with me.

Can we agree?


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 10:17 am
Posts: 2684
Full Member
 

Ever since a dog sent me over the bars when I was bimbling through the park, I steer well clear and slow right down. This one was off its lead with a runner. Thinking I was well clear of it, it darted in front on my wheel. I was annoyed I'd crashed but was more concerned about the dog. Thankfully it seemed ok. Unfortunately they are too unpredictable so I wouldn't want to be anywhere near one off lead on a proper trail. Had one chase me down on a natural trail which made contact with my leg. That was dangerous for us both on a rocky and rooty descent.

I still like seeing dogs when I'm riding but I'm now very cautious if they're off lead and anywhere near the the bike.


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 10:41 am
 DezB
Posts: 54367
Free Member
 

Taking a dog out with you on a bike is a fashion statement.

Some people really do say some stupid shit don’t they.


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 11:01 am
Posts: 6513
Full Member
 

Taking a dog out with you on a bike is a fashion statement.

Some people really do say some stupid shit don’t they.

It's not a natural thing for a dog to do so until a 'Llangdegla' breed evolves with big thick NikeAir Max style pads and extra joint cartilage for rad schralps and scrubs it's going to have to just be a fashion rad-to-the-max living the lifestyle thing


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 11:11 am
 colp
Posts: 3322
Full Member
 

It’s not often you see Llandegla and Rad to the Max in the same sentence


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 11:59 am
 DezB
Posts: 54367
Free Member
 

Thanks for proving my point RustyNissan


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 12:02 pm
Posts: 6513
Full Member
 

Thanks for proving my point RustyNissan

I'm a dog owner and think it's a fashion/lifestyle/selfish thing.


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 12:05 pm
Posts: 11605
Free Member
 

Okay I'm a dog owner but can see this from both sides. In the wild, fine, go for it. You need to train it and you're less likely to be in a high traffic area if it decides to play silly buggers.

In trail centres I'm less keen. I've had animals run along side me and as said it's really off putting as you don't know what it's going to do. If your dog is trained well enough to run at heel then fine, otherwise I'd say it's as sensible as walking along bike trails (ie. Not). Please remember that for the majority of users trail centres off dedicated trails where you can push a bit harder without having to worry about traffic coming the other way or otherwise interacting with you. If your dog can't comply with that then it really has no business being on a bike trail. I don't want to hurt it and I'm sure you wouldn't want a less confident rider crashing from being distracted or trying to avoid it.

This analogue doesn’t work. If children were running off the and on to trails in front of other riders then it would, but they don’t, they just ride down on bikes like other humans. So it doesn’t.

You've never been on a ride with my daughter. It absolutely does work albeit she's a lot slower and bigger but if she's decided to stop/strop on a blind bend then pulls out to carry on she presents the same danger. Under those circumstances she now knows that she only moves when told until such time that she can competently judge for herself.

Trail Centres are clearly a no no, but off piste is fair game IMO. You shouldn’t be riding your bike there so you’ve got no right to piss and moan if someone else who shouldn’t be riding their bike there also brings a dog.

Er, what? Ever heard of Right to Roam? Theres more to access laws than those of E&W.


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 1:02 pm
Posts: 5222
Free Member
 

Is right to roam the same as dedicated MTB trails then?
If it’s not a dedicated MTB trail then the dog and owner have just as much right to roam as you do, so again, no pissing and moaning allowed.


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 1:10 pm
Posts: 44146
Full Member
 

In scotland right to roam applies everywhere even trail centres


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 1:14 pm
Posts: 5222
Free Member
 

Fair enough, I wouldn’t take a dog to a dedicated trail centre but I would take one to off piste trails if it was well trained.


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 1:21 pm
Posts: 41395
Free Member
 

@DezB sounds like you feel a bit oppressed by the views so far...which I can understand to an extent (reminds me of how drivers talk cyclists sometimes)

But can't you see what an out of control dog is like for many cyclists?


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 1:42 pm
 DezB
Posts: 54367
Free Member
 

Nah, I don't feel at all oppressed. Just completely disagree and saying so.
My dog's dead so isn't a dog or trail dog anymore, but I certainly know she wasn't a fashion statement.


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 2:04 pm
Posts: 26725
Full Member
 

The key is “is mutt well trained” A well trained dog even at a trail centre is not an issue with me.

Can we agree?

No of course we cant!!
I love dogs even badly trained ones and am more than happy to stop on my rides to give one some fuss but **** me some dog owners are shit for brains morons (like people in general) the thing that grips my shit is the ones that see my young some riding towards them and still leave their dog to run about out of control and dont seem to even care that their stupid mut could get run over, I just cant grasp the lack of care for their own dog.

I would add that dogs and trail centres seem wrong to me, even a well trained dog will cause me to stop or slow right down as I wont know how it will react even if the owner mostly will.


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 2:26 pm
Posts: 11605
Free Member
 

If it’s not a dedicated MTB trail then the dog and owner have just as much right to roam as you do, so again, no pissing and moaning allowed.

Oddly enough we agree but for completely different reasons. In Scotland both have the right to be there whilst in E&W neither do. Obviously common sense (ha!) should apply even off piste as some trails are clearly more off piste than others if you get my meaning.

I was only taking issue with the access rights FWIW.


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 2:29 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I am of the opinion live and let live..

Which always translates to “I’m doing what I like and sod anyone else”.


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 4:24 pm
Posts: 1866
Free Member
 

Dog owners are like parents. They think their little pooch is not being a problem to anyone, when in fact it’s making other people have to stop, move, slow down and in many cases make people fearful that they might get bitten.

I’d say that dog owners have the same blind spots as parents do.

The ratio of responsible dog owners, to inconsiderate ****s, is about 80-20. (Nowhere near the 99% mentioned earlier)
But I’m sure if I asked 100 dog owners about their dog, they’d say ‘it’s very well trained and has never chased a cyclist’

if it’s not on a lead you shouldn’t have it anywhere near children, cyclists, livestock. No matter how deluded you are.

Both me and one of my children have been bitten by a dog while riding our bikes. Dogs that did not respond to their owners at all.


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 10:50 pm
Posts: 4315
Full Member
 

It also seems quite irresponsible to take a dog to a designated cycle route where they could be hit by another bike, or lost chasing someone.

I've had a few dogs chase me in the past. All were big, barking, and their owners puzzled while telling me to stop. I won't stop if an angry sounding dog is chasing me. I'll sprint off as fast as I can to avoid injury and continue with my ride.

Keep it on a lead if its likely to chase. And off the designated trails if you don't want it run over.


 
Posted : 29/12/2020 11:06 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Dog owners are like parents. They think their little pooch is not being a problem to anyone, when in fact it’s making other people have to stop, move, slow down and in many cases make people fearful that they might get bitten.

I’d say that dog owners have the same blind spots as parents do.

But I’m sure if I asked 100 dog owners about their dog, they’d say ‘it’s very well trained and has never chased a cyclist’

if it’s not on a lead you shouldn’t have it anywhere near children, cyclists, livestock. No matter how deluded you are

This. You'll never change people's opinions though because like many parents they can't see any fault in their dog child. They love it's playful character and the joy it brings them; therefore, everyone else must as well and exception can always be made for their dog because it's "friendly and well trained" to their personal and biased standards.

Everyone is ok with a trail dog on a dedicated bike trail because it's "well behaved, friendly and never hurt anyone"

Everyone is ok with my kids running round Aldi like a pair of turds because they are "well behaved, friendly and never hurt anyone"


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 4:03 am
Posts: 99
Free Member
 

Dog owners are like parents. They think their little pooch is not being a problem to anyone, when in fact it’s making other people have to stop, move, slow down and in many cases make people fearful that they might get bitten.

I’d say that dog owners have the same blind spots as parents do.

Bloody cyclists eh? Jumping red lights, riding on the pavements, always making sweeping statements, stereo typing groups of people...


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 7:09 am
Posts: 44146
Full Member
 

if it’s not on a lead you shouldn’t have it anywhere near children, cyclists, livestock. No matter how deluded you are

not legally required in Scotland and a well trained dog does not need to be on a lead.

The key remains " is the dog properly trained?"

Mt mate had a well trained dog. It would stay at heel when commanded, it would not step off a pavement to cross a road without being told to and it would not bother other people. It never went on a lead. simply no need.


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 7:14 am
Posts: 732
Free Member
 

That's all very well TJ but you don't know when approaching that a dog running around off it's lead is 'well trained' so you've got to assume that it's not like the previous 99% of dogs that you encounter & their 'Oh he's never done that before' ****wit owners.


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 8:13 am
Posts: 2006
Free Member
 

I’ve had a few dogs chase me in the past. All were big, barking, and their owners puzzled while telling me to stop. I won’t stop if an angry sounding dog is chasing me. I’ll sprint off as fast as I can to avoid injury and continue with my ride.

I try and maintain a ten metre gap from the chasing dog, if it is well trained it will be recalled

If it's not the owner gets some exercise


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 2:21 pm
Posts: 44146
Full Member
 

but you don’t know when approaching that a dog running around off it’s lead is ‘well trained’

if its "running around" then its not. simples. I dislike dogs but even I can see this one


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 2:45 pm
 four
Posts: 609
Free Member
 

I prefer dogs to (most) people.

It seems these days everyone has an ‘issue’ with something - dogs on trails, people not planting enough trees, the nature of some jokes; We are in an ‘I’m offended’ culture now where everyone feels they have a ‘right rather than a privilege’ in every circumstance or situation.

What happened to live and let live, control what you can within your own realm?

As to dogs on trails - no different to other bikers, walkers etc - some will be a pain in the arse, others not. This the way of life in general. You can chose to let it bother you or not.


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 2:59 pm
Posts: 826
Full Member
 

Page 3 and no mention of Fenton.


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 3:07 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Trail dog is cool on a back country bimble but any where near any other riders is a big no no.


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 3:52 pm
Posts: 1062
Free Member
 

Out of interest where are you all riding to be attacked/chased/threatened by dogs? The only time I have seen a dog go after someone was a mate skateboarding in a town centre.
I have just been out for a 25 mile ride, taking in two laps of the local golf course (cotswold way) and a couple picnic/beauty sites. I saw a lot of dogs, probably at least one every 100 feet or so. Not a single one of them looked twice at me. I payed extra attention to what they were doing after reading this thread. Not all of them were perfectly behaved, none did anything wrong just not walking at their owners side off lead, kind of running around being dogs.
I guess I could be a bit biased in that I love dogs and don’t feel threatened by them generally. I stopped and said hello to a lot of them while waiting for a mate and all were just nice dogs.
So yeah where are you all riding for this to be happening? How often is this happening for you to be so concerned to start a thread about it? Not trying to pick holes or argue, just genuinely curious


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 4:15 pm
 nonk
Posts: 18
Free Member
 

It’s not a problem generally speaking marksnoot
I think you have to be a massive fanny first and then these things start to creep in.
I’m no expert though.


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 4:30 pm
Posts: 1062
Free Member
 

I did wonder if it was mental thing that being scared could cause someone to act erratically and that do something but I don’t think that would be the case.
Kind of like being paranoid that every person in public wants to mug you. Granted one will eventually but I wouldn’t judge every person I see a threat just because I’ve been mugged in the past. Probably not a relevant analogy but do you get what I mean?


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 5:30 pm
Posts: 5042
Free Member
 

If a dog trots after me while I’m pootling along while the owner is screaming their head off telling it to come back, i just keep going.
It’s hardly my fault if the poor animal hasn’t been trained.
My 2P,
Public place, no problem, dogs allowed.
Dedicated Trail centre, not really on imo, the point of a trail centre is for bikes to be able to let rip more than they would in a public park.
Fwiw, i like dogs, but some dog owners are utter foxwits.
Just like other people in fact.


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 5:49 pm
Posts: 1062
Free Member
 

For what it’s worth I agree, I don’t think trail centres are the place to take your dog for a bike ride. But then if someone’s regular ride and idea of fun is having their dog with them then who am I to say what others should do. I don’t think bike park wales allow dogs on the trails. Unless dogs are banned from a place then unfortunately people have every right to take their dog. If the dog messes with peoples day then I guess you are breaking rule number 1!
I guess part of the problem is that the definition of well trained differs between each of us. Also the definition of a dog being threatening differ too. To some people it may be an inquisitive dog coming to see what is happening, for me I imagine it’s an angry dog trying to attack


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 6:12 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Out of interest where are you all riding to be attacked/chased/threatened by dogs?

15 miles from Rotherham, on bridleway. Want to see my left calf?

Cheers!
I.


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 6:17 pm
Posts: 1062
Free Member
 

Alright I was just asking a question. Having never had such an incident it got me thinking about it


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 6:31 pm
Posts: 44146
Full Member
 

To some people it may be an inquisitive dog coming to see what is happening,

thats not acceptable and is a poorly trained dog

live and let live - fine but keep your hound under control and that includes it not coming up to me at all


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 6:37 pm
Posts: 26725
Full Member
 

but you don’t know when approaching that a dog running around off it’s lead is ‘well trained’

if its “running around” then its not. simples

Surely even the best trained dogs like say a police dog or something is allowed to run around off lead at some point?

If a dog trots after me while I’m pootling along while the owner is screaming their head off telling it to come back, i just keep going.
It’s hardly my fault if the poor animal hasn’t been trained.

Which is why if you are not feeling threatened it might be better to stop and tell the owner that they need to up their game rather than potentially lead the dog into trouble.


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 7:38 pm
Posts: 1062
Free Member
 

My brother in law has a guide dog that is exceptional well trained when wearing its harness, when not it’s an idiot that wants to run around and dive in puddles.
I get that you want a dog to do one thing, many people don’t. Just because you are right in your head doesn’t necessarily mean other people are wrong.
Your opinion isn’t fact


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 8:12 pm
Posts: 4315
Full Member
 

I've had dogs come up to me just to say hello. One put its nose right in my rucksack while I was getting a snack which made me laugh. I didn't feel threatened at all. The owner appolagised and we both laughed.

3 other dogs have made me feel threatened though by running after me growling and barking. Keep those kind of dogs on a lead. Luckily I could outsprint the dogs on my bike and didn't stop till I felt safe again. If the dog gets lost its not my fault. Keep it on a lead if its likely to chase someone. If I was a child I could be dead. Keep it on a lead.


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 8:41 pm
Posts: 2110
Full Member
 

I'm with marksnook on this. I'm fascinated to discover where in the country this pack of out of control canines actually is? I'm a dog owner, walker and cyclist. I see many, many dogs out and about every day. Occasionally there may be one that is excited to meet me (in a nice way), very, very occasionally there is one that decides he/she doesn't like my dog's face/scent/whatever and gets a bit angsty. But apart from that, nothing.

In fact in at least two decades of cycling, walking etc i don't think I've ever seen a dog chase a cyclist. Not in the park, not on the river, not on the canal towpaths, the bridleway, the footpaths. Or at a trail centre (otherbthan my dog chasing me). In that time I've seen many, many cyclists jump reds (myself included), but these voracious, aggressive animals? Nope.

I can accept that people may have unwittingly had a dog chase them, or cut across them once, but on a regular basis? I don't think so.

As said above, some people are going to be offended. It might be cyclists that offend them. Or immigrants. Or people of different sexual persuasions. Or dogs. That then becomes a mantra and everything is escalated in a given echo chamber. Isolated incidents become a constant.

And whilst I think about it, the most dangerous thing at trail centres is other people. Braking bumps! Children! Random walkers going the wrong way up descents! Scrotes thieving bikes. You want trail centres to be safer. Ban people.

In fact, all the hurt and pain I've had at trail centres (including breaking bones and losing teeth) has been caused by one consistent offender. Me. So the obvious solution is to ban myself from trail centres!

And finally, the irony of someone who mountain bikes talking about dogs as lifestyle accessories? Where's the self awareness? We swan around on bikes that oftrn cost more than decent 2nd hand cars. Obsess over 1/2 a degree of angle or 5cm of travel. Normal people think we're nuts. They say why do you need a bike to go for a walk, poncing around on your expensive cash traps, scaring honest dog walkers as you fly past and spray them with mud. And they've got a point. But there's loads of them who'll swear blind that they're regularly buzzed by inconsiderate mountain bikers, when it happened once, years ago.

That said, I do empathise with people who don't like/are intimidated by dogs around bicycles. So I won't be taking my dog to a trail centre again.

However I feel for you guys. I mean every bridleway, footpath, towpath, park, pavement, B-road you're going to be meetin dogs. Turns out there's a lot of them out there. Even more with pandemic and all. That's tough for you. I suggest that rather than fight it you work out a way to accommodate it because it's not going away and you'll end up even more miserable than you currently seem to be.


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 9:38 pm
Posts: 4671
Full Member
 

Get dogs growling, barking or even chasing me regularly. Had 3 today. I'm not nervous with dogs and tend to give them a wide berth but I do tend to ride in Country Parks so there are a lot of dogs about, to be fair, the vast majority are fine.

The scariest one that comes to mind was a few years ago when an Irish wolf hound ran out of the trees at me, it's head was almost level with mine, i properly sh$t it.


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 10:10 pm
Posts: 4671
Full Member
 

Dog walkers do make great trails though, even if they occasionally put branches across them to discourage bikes.


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 10:29 pm
Posts: 234
Full Member
 

I take my dog out for a ride with me most weeks but I'd never do so at a trail centre. She's well trained and knows that on the way up is for bimbling about or chasing squirrels and on the way down it's just about keeping up with me. I still only take her first thing in the morning or when I know it's going to be quiet, not because she will get in the way of anyone else but because I don't know how other riders will react to a dog pelting along a trail and I don't want her or them to get hurt. I'll also only take her down trails we have walked together before so she knows what's coming.


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 10:40 pm
Posts: 2110
Full Member
 

Get dogs growling, barking or even chasing me regularly. Had 3 today. I’m not nervous with dogs and tend to give them a wide berth but I do tend to ride in Country Parks so there are a lot of dogs about, to be fair, the vast majority are fine.

Hmmm. Do you carry, or have you ever carried, raw meat or sausages on your person? Perhaps a pork pie or two? A few old mince pies in your backpack perhaps..

Either that or you're fortunate enough to give off some truly sexy doggie pheromones 😉


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 10:46 pm
Posts: 4671
Full Member
 

Dogs don't seem to like bikes or me, could be me. Maybe I need a t-shirt with "no sausages are stored upon this person!"

I've heard this too many times from dog owners "don't mind him!" As a dog is barking and approaching me.

I'd love a dog but don't have enough spare time to do one justice (although this rule doesn't seem to be universal amongst local dog owners), If I did have one though, I'd spend the time and money getting it properly trained.


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 11:02 pm
Posts: 3899
Free Member
 

What the **** is a trail dog?


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 11:10 pm
Posts: 4671
Full Member
 

https://www.mbr.co.uk/news/trail-dog-videos-361396


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 11:14 pm
Posts: 3899
Free Member
 

Urrr, Yurrr,
Like a dog...


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 11:30 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

*deleted*
Never mind, you can’t change a selfish persons mind. 🙄🙄


 
Posted : 30/12/2020 11:57 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I suggest that rather than fight it you work out a way to accommodate it because it’s not going away

Ahhh... got it... My fault then that I have scars on the legs because I was bitten by the dog.

So silly, silly of me, just being standing there whilst out of control dog was shredding my leg...

Cheers!
I.


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 7:52 am
Posts: 1062
Free Member
 

Like others have already pointed out, replace dog/trail/bicycle with car/road/inconvenience and some of you are spouting the same hatred people have for cyclists. Oh yeah forgot, we’re not all the same or some argument you all make to justify something.
I build and maintain my local trails. I walk my dog on those trails to make sure they are free of obstruction, I have always trained her to not be scared of humans but to come back to me after smelling them. I think that dragging a dog away from something and making a bigger deal of not going near people reinforces that people are dangerous and make dogs see threat. Caveat, I’m not a dog trainer and I’ve no idea how I came to that conclusion.
I’m not saying my way is right. But I try to be respectful and when in crowded places she is on a lead as she could ruin a good picnic! Again pointless argument and all that..


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 8:26 am
Posts: 6513
Full Member
 

Premier Icon
suburbanreuben
Free Member

What the **** is a trail dog?

https://www.mbr.co.uk/news/trail-dog-videos-361396/blockquote >

Selfish ****s ragging the shit out of their dogs for a sick edit.


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 8:29 am
Posts: 16025
Free Member
 

In fact in at least two decades of cycling, walking etc i don’t think I’ve ever seen a dog chase a cyclist

"He's just being friendly".


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 8:37 am
Posts: 2110
Full Member
 

Ahhh… got it… My fault then that I have scars on the legs because I was bitten by the dog.

So silly, silly of me, just being standing there whilst out of control dog was shredding my leg…

Okay, for the avoidanceof doubt, I'm not saying, or suggesting, that anyone who gets attacked by a dog is necessarily at fault. Obviously in the vast majority of cases they're not.

However, what i was saying is that dogs aren't going away. They'll always be here, and there will always be ones that aren't properly trained or have been abused and are aggressive. That being the case, developing strategies to deal with them is probably a good idea.

In my opinion, those who talk about riding away from dogs are adopting the wrong strategy. Firstly, if a big dog really wants to catch you, unless you're Cavendish you're unlikely to outrun it. Secondly, if a dog does chase, you're participating by giving it something to chase. Much better to stop, tell the dog to sod off and wait for the owner to (hopefully) appear. Dogs will generally back away from someone who stands up to them.

I appreciate that some people have had bad experiences with dogs. Unfortunately bad experiences happen. I've been mugged twice (once at gunpoint), been attacked in bars and clubs back in the day and been injured on football/rugby pitches more times than I care to count (let alone cycling injuries). But I'm not calling for all scrotes to be kept on chains (though come to think of it..), for alcohol to be banned (the Yanks tried that, see rise of the Mafia), or all sports to be non contact. Unfortunately life involves risks and whilst the vast majority of dogs (and owners) are safe, there'll always be a small minority that aren't. Hence the advice around mitigation.

Finally, some stats:

2019 - 9000 people treated in hospital for dog bites

2016 - 18,000 people treated in hospital for bike crashes

2019 - 1.26million people treated in hospital for alcohol related issues

Obviously 9000 people is 9000 more than ideal. But in the wider context of 65million people going about their daily business it's tiny, approx 25 a day. Whereas the cycling stat is pertinent to the percentage of the population who cycle (less than 10%), which means you are far, far more likely to get hurt riding your bike than you ever are by a dog.

Of course, if you get into the cycling stats you'd see that kids under the age of 10 are far more likely to get hurt. So we'll start by banning them from riding bikes.

Then you'll see that wearing helmets makes you less likely to be seriously injured. So we'll make that a legal requirement.

Then busy roads are much more dangerous, so we'll ban cycling on them too for good measure..

At the end of the day I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong. Individual experience is what defines us. However, using massive generalisations about any community of people is plain wrong, as is using insulting language about the intelligence/morals of said community. On that at least I'd hope we'd all agree


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 8:43 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

The sad thing from all this long post is that in my eyes it looks like you are sort of down playing issue of dog bites...
It is smaller than some obvious offender, so we can brush it off...

Just repeating myself from 2 pages before:

But that is not dog’s fault that it is a dog. It is owner’s fault not to be considerate enough prior. Either on training of dog or making up decision to take/not to take dog to the ride.

Dogs are not problem, as they are dogs, their owners are problem, as they are people.

Cheers!
I.


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 8:52 am
Posts: 13942
Full Member
 

“Surely even the best trained dogs like say a police dog or something is allowed to run around off lead at some point?”

Police dogs are very well trained to do certain things but are often unsafe in other environments - I know a police dog handler and even her retired dog can’t be walked off the lead when other people or dogs are likely to be around in case he decides to take them down as he would a suspect.

I like dogs but they’re not the most predictable creatures, bikes move fast and a certain proportion of dog owners are pretty clueless. I’ve ridden with a friend’s trail dog once and although he was pretty well behaved I did have to keep my wits about me in case he got too close to the bike. I don’t think busier trails are a sensible place for them.


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 9:01 am
Posts: 12482
Free Member
 

In fact in at least two decades of cycling, walking etc i don’t think I’ve ever seen a dog chase a cyclist.

I can recall at least 5 times that I have been chased by a dog when riding. It doesn't feel great but I just sprint off and it then gives up after a while but if I was a bit scared of dogs, was a slow rider etc,. it may not have been a great experience for someone else.


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 9:02 am
Posts: 6513
Full Member
 

Has anyone else watched that Collie 'downhilling' clip linked above and thought animal cruelty rather than sick edit?


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 9:33 am
Posts: 26725
Full Member
 

I like dogs but they’re not the most predictable creatures

That was kind of my point, a guide dog may have been a better example!

. I don’t think busier trails are a sensible place for them.

I agree.

Has anyone else watched that Collie ‘downhilling’ clip linked above and thought animal cruelty rather than sick edit?

Not watched it but generally I dont think having a dog run while you cycle would be very good for its long term health.


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 10:04 am
 Rio
Posts: 1617
Full Member
 

2019 – 9000 people treated in hospital for dog bites

That's the tip of the iceberg - it's been estimated that in the UK around 150 000 people a year are bitten by dogs, of which 0.6% result in hospital treatment - I've been bitten by dogs several times but never gone to hospital for it. I'd suggest that figure is something to be concerned about but I can't see anything being done - I have this picture in my mind of dog owners burying their heads into their Daily Mail because that's other people's dogs, not their own dog that never gives more than a "friendly nip".

On the trail dog thing, I hate having someone elses dog darting about under my wheels, not just because it spoils my ride and may result in me crashing into a tree but also because I really don't want to injure a dog by running over it. And an issue no-one seems to have brought up so far is the law and liability. You are required by law to have your dog under control at all times, and you are liable for any damage it causes. So if you let your dog run around loose on mountain bike trails (or anywhere else for that matter) you'd better have some good liability insurance.


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 10:09 am
Posts: 855
Free Member
 

I have been bitten, several times.


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 11:05 am
Posts: 45504
Free Member
 

I have been bitten, several times.

By a dog or for enjoyment?


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 11:12 am
Posts: 1062
Free Member
 

Dog owners burying their heads in their daily mail? Someone has some prejudices.
They are all the same those dog owners.

We have a Labrador and a westie. Westie is a grade A rule number one breaker. Westie has collars, harness and lead with big letters on saying do not touch. Westie never comes off lead due to him being a ****. Is that enough or should I slit his throat?
Labrador is insanely friendly and just wants to run around playing with sticks and jumping in muddy puddles. Lab isn’t trained enough to be at my side the whole time but I don’t want that. I walk in woods without many footpaths so rarely see anyone else.
What else would you judge ****s want me to do?

For what it’s worth, I’m using fod as an example as its local, the footpaths and bridleways were there long before the trail centre came in. So who is actually in who’s garden?


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 11:12 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Dogs on leads in public spaces at all times. Thanks👍 end of thread.


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 12:10 pm
Posts: 1062
Free Member
 

Good plan, anything that some people don’t like ban. I hate kids, can we ban them from being loose in public as well?!


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 12:19 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Kids are human, dogs are not-human.

Cheers!
I.


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 12:23 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I didn't say ban dogs dude, dogs should be kept on leads in public spaces at all times. Everybody wins👍
You can enjoy bubbles
Bubbles gets walkies
Strangers get to relax around bubbles

Be considerate to others and smiley faces all round☺️


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 12:33 pm
Posts: 1062
Free Member
 

More kids have gotten in my way than dogs though, therefore judged on your previous argument they are unpredictable. I agree that it’s not appropriate for dogs to be off lead in certain places and situations but in your blind unable to reason ways most of you brush over that and still say dog owners are all the same.
Like I said this is a stupid argument. No one is right.

I know it’s was a tongue in cheek comment but if all dogs are required to be on lead in public then that instantly means police dogs and search and rescue dogs have to follow those rules. Rendering them unable to do the job they do. Kind of the same as enforcing a top speed restriction on vehicles, emergency vehicles would have to follow the same rules


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 12:37 pm
Posts: 5222
Free Member
 

I’ve been bitten by way more kids than dogs. The one bite I received from a dog was when I had gone where I’d been warned not to be because the guard dog will bite me, totally my fault. All the bites from kids have been because they are undisciplined little shits. Funnily enough, the owner usually claims they’ve never done that before...


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 12:42 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Nah.
Police/search dogs will be exempt, exemption certificates can be carried by the handler with regular training required.

Emergency vehicles can break the speed limit now mister👍


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 12:46 pm
Posts: 12482
Free Member
 

Good plan, anything that some people don’t like ban. I hate kids, can we ban them from being loose in public as well?!

Would get my vote. They get in the way just as much as loose dogs do. If riding and walking on shared paths then all parties need to take responsibility.

I don't head towards walkers zig zagging around with them wondering whether I may hit them, I slow down, ride on opposite side in a straight line, i.e. I am under control just as kids and dogs should be.


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 12:51 pm
Posts: 1062
Free Member
 

I know they can, I’m was just pointing out that emergency services have to follow the law, so if it was law that vehicles have to be limited to say 70mph then emergency vehicles would as well. Although I could be wrong I thought the law was meant to be absolute so it’s the same for everyone to follow. Writing in exceptions for certain groups of people didn’t work
Sorry that was a weird analogy

Anyway think I’m done, I haven’t tried to change opinions I just think life isn’t as clear cut as some of your arguments.
Fwiw the wife just pointed out she has been hit or bitten by more kids in public than dogs


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 1:15 pm
Posts: 2110
Full Member
 

Wow. It gets more and more extreme. That bit of research quoted above was a sample of 690 people. Hardly definitive imho. And furthermore, even if you were to take its sweeping generalisations seriously, you'd see you're 3.3 times more likely to be bitten if you're already a dog owner. Ergo, most people who are bitten are dog owners. A bit like most people who get hurt in bike accidents are bike riders..

Regarding dogs on leads, anyone who works with and trains dogs knows that key to their behaviour is socialisation, both with other dogs and with humans. The only dogs I meet with "issues" are the ones on leads constantly being pulled away from contact with anyone or anything.

And I come back again to our chosen hobby. Cycling exposes you to far, far more risk than you ever will be exposed to with dogs. If we accept the 180,000 dog bites per annum as fact (rather than largely conjecture), then if we apply the same factor of non-reported cycling injuries it would be 400,000 per annum. But that 400,000 is from a sample size of approximately 5.2million (as opposed to a 65million sample size for dog bites).

So (based on my admittedly rudimentary maths skills), as a cyclist you have a 7.5% chance of getting injured each year (probably higher as a mountain biker). As a member of the public you have a quarter of 1% chance of being bitten by a dog, actually far, far less than that given that a lot of dog bites are inflicted on people who already own them.

Which is all somewhat apropos of nothing, other than to demonstrate that some of us are happy to engage in a past-time with a comparatively high risk factor, in comparison to that which is twisting so many knickers.

At the end of the day, all bites are bad bites and I agree that dogs should be under the control of their owners. That doesn't necessarily mean 'on the lead' but in some cases that may be necessary. But when I walk in my local parks, by the river/canal, on bridleways i see multiple dogs, off lead interacting happily with other people, children, families etc. Generally speaking dogs bring a huge positive impact. We're a nation of animal lovers. Caging and leading all dogs would be perverse and actually drive the opposite of what we all want.

Funnily enough, the biggest dog related issue i have as a cyclist is dogs on leads (particularly extendable ones which I dislike for a number of reasons) extending the leads across footpaths, creating a tripwire like hazard. Lethal. Dogs off leads!

Actually, I can think of one country where they often have laws about dogs on leads, even separate dog parks. They also have laws that allow people to own and carry guns and over 40,000 gun related deaths annually. I know which id rather live under..


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 1:23 pm
Posts: 9539
Free Member
 

[kids] They get in the way just as much as loose dogs

But not in the same way. Kids are much more predictable in general and change direction much less suddenly and less often


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 1:24 pm
Posts: 2110
Full Member
 

But not in the same way. Kids are much more predictable in general and change direction much less suddenly and less often

Really? I have to admire that you're living up to your chosen moniker with what can only be described as a massive sweeping generalisation.

So I'll ask, what age of children are you applying your sweeping generalisations to? Under 5s? I'd say not, they are random as. Under 10s? Nope, still pretty random. I'd accept 10 upwards, but older kids can still be space heads who do sudden, inexplicable things.

In the case of dogs, if one is running about wildly  it tends to be fairly obvious. They're usually playing with another dog. If they're in your vicinity and you're on a bike exercise due care (just like if kids are charging aroynd). But the idea that some dog plodding along is suddenly going to spin 360 charge one way, then the other, is laughable.

When I'm out on the bike, I'm way, way more leery of families with young kids than I am with dogs. Dogs tend to have good situational awareness, kids are clueless.


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 1:46 pm
Posts: 11605
Free Member
 

But not in the same way. Kids are much more predictable in general and change direction much less suddenly and less often

Again, I invite you to go for a ride round Glentress with my 7yo daughter.


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 1:48 pm
 DezB
Posts: 54367
Free Member
 

Wow. It gets more and more extreme.

Really?! I thought everyone would be shaking virtual hands (or paws) and agreeing by page 4. .. lolZ


 
Posted : 31/12/2020 2:33 pm
Page 2 / 3

6 DAYS LEFT
We are currently at 95% of our target!