[Closed] Trail Courtesy...

Let the quicker riders through when its safe to do so.
Quicker riders should not expect to have unimpeded passage and may have to wait a few minutes. It is the quicker riders responsibility to let the slower rider know that he/she is there and not with (PASSING LEFT!) and should be polite when let through (CHEERS MATE!). Manners cost nothing.
On 2 way trails, the DH rider should yield to the uphill rider as the uphiller may not be able to restart.
I'm generally the quicker rider down but not up.

oh no, this will end in tears.

If I catch someone up on a downhill section I'd normally pause for a few minutes to allow them to get to the bottom without hearing my Hope hub buzzing in their ear.
If someone catches me up (normally on an uphill) i'll stop, pullover and let them pass

I never expect anyone to get out of my way and would expect the same courtesy. I have been known to pull over and let a faster rider through when I think it is convenient.

I will let riders past - I am often the slower ( but not always) I will ask if they want past if someone is behind me and I will ask to pass if I catch someone up.

However I will also wait at the top of a descent for a clear run

This does appear to be an increasing problem at trail centres as they get busier.

Ordinarily the slower rider should try and let the faster rider through when is safe to do so, and the faster rider should only come through when its safe to do so.

However invarably the slower rider is less technicaly competent and often gets flustered by some one being behind so you have to give them space.

I think there is also an arguement that if you are doing a red or a black route at a trail centre, then you should NOT expect to come across a beginner, and anyone doing a red or black should expect faster riders to come up behind them, unless they are of course riding gods.

come across a beginner!....I prefer to squirt them with my water bottle

Turner riders get priority don't they?

I thought it had been agreed that you ride over slower riders?

chakaping - please keep on topic. We'll cover what happens when two turner riders meet in a future edition of the trail etiquette threads.

It think this is possibly the only area where the worlds of mountain biking and golf converge. In golf you let the faster group through [i]when sensible to do so[/i], i.e. at the next tee. As you should when on a bike.

Last time two Turner riders met head on on the trail the dinosaurs became extinct...

same as druidh, I never expect people to get out of my way, and i'll thank them if they do. also I try not to ride too closely either.

I've asked to go before some folk on climbs, is that rude?

When out with a group I will always try to ensure faster folk are ahead of me - and I would not expect to get past until there was a clear opportunity when I would politely ask

"If they leave a gap,they want to be passed.If they don't leave a gap ,they want to be passed but hav'nt realised it yet"

Slower less technical ride has priority. It's down to the rider uphill of you to be careful/considerate enough so that he can overtake you safely

I don't think there is a catch all solution and each situation would be determined on merit.

I think, like most things in life, this issue can be broken down to one simple phrase.

"Don't be a dick".

If everyone abided by that simple rule then all would be well.

What? You're just riding bikes, let common sense prevail. If you want codes of practice and etiquette then play golf.

What? You're just riding bikes, let common sense prevail. If you want codes of practice and etiquette then play golf.

In principle I agree, the only problem is a severe lack of common sense amongst a large proportion of our population! So maybe some "guidelines" let's call them (not rules as rules just get broken) to stop the bickering and discourteous nature of some riders who believe that they have ulimate right over everyone else at a trail centre, should be introduced? Perhaps...?

I think, like most things in life, this issue can be broken down to one simple phrase.
"Don't be a dick".
If everyone abided by that simple rule then all would be well.

Again, I totally agree in principle. Problem is many people can't not be a dick, its in their nature, and sadly for you and me some of them ride mountain bikes too!

No, sadly I know, it's very true. Too many folk are preoccupied with not allowing others to ruin their day that they don't consider that perhaps their own actions are ruining the day of others.

Of course we could just practice some "christian" riding. Do as you would be done by

If you are riding along either up, down or flat and someone comes up behind you and obviously is a quicker rider (speed of approach may be a giveaway) then you move over don't you... I do. Why wouldn't you? Why would anyone just sit there pootling along ignoring the fact that they are holding someone up when all they have to do is take a second or two to move aside when it's safe to do so.... common sense surely.

bzzzzzzz, sound of alarm. Oh no....rubs eyes and looks around.... it was just a dream.

Of course we could just practice some "christian" riding

It would be nice if we could ride with each other, rather than against each other, never gonna happen though...

I don't like feeling that I'm in the way, so I move over for faster riders, if I catch up to someone I'll say allright mate and see how it goes, I'm old though and rarely in a rush.

I think the simplest solution is that people should understand that I have priority and that other people should get out of my way. If you all remember this, a lot of trail conflict will be avoided. And quite frankly any remaining problems won involve me, so I'm not too concerned at their outcome.

Let the faster rider go first, yield to the uphill rider, use common sense, dont be a dick.

Crikey how hard can it be?

I'm sure Jesus had something to say about this, though it may not have been specifically aimed at MTBers...

Common sense is the key. I always pull over when it's safe to let faster riders past. A friendly greeting when you come up behind slower riders seems to work most of the time, you just have to be patient if it doesn't.
Some people disagree, but if I can I give way to riders coming downhill. The highway code stuff doesn't count as far as mtb'ing goes, its all about having fun not the diffuculties a lorry might have starting on a hill.

I see both sides of this. I'm not slow, but I'm not exactly challenging the podium at races either.

When out trail riding if I catch a slower rider I let them know I'm there and shout "On yer right / left" If I'm not bothered about getting past then "You're alright" to let them know I'm okay to follow. If I'm only just catching someone then I'll just slow down for a bit and try to catch them back up again. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had any issues (might be one finger come to think of it) on a trail.

Racing is different. I make every effort to let faster riders past if I hear someone catching me then pull off to one side so its obvious I'm letting them past. One the (very) rare occasion I catch someone in a race I would expect the same.

I hate being held up, and I hate holding others up.

So I follow TeeJ's christian model.

TBH, I rarely have an issue with this, the majority of riders are courteous and pleasant and respond well to a cheery hello.

I'll always let faster riders through *but* when safe / convenient to do so, if I'm riding down a nice singletrack section then they'll have to wait until the end or a natural passing place 🙂

when safe ... to do so

I have also been known to define when I consider safe and pass riders who're intent on making me wait. 🙂

who're intent on making me wait.

This is the thing.

Riders who know they are slower & know they have someone behind them & have no intent on letting anyone past..Its happens in racing, it happens at Trail Centres, at happens all over the place..Why so selfish?
Didnt someone once say "Do what you want, do what you will, just dont spoil your neighbours thrill"..

Yeah it really isn't difficult, uphill has priority. QUicker riders come up behind me I do everything in my effort to move over so they can get through, if it's too narrow then tough they'll have to wait and overtake when they can. I'm not stopping just because I'm a slower rider. It's common sense, in the same breath you might be the quicker rider don't come hooning up behind, heavy breathing, coughing, hinting, we clearly know you are there but there isn't enough space. Oh and if you buzz my wheel you'll get punched as you go pass, I maybe slower but doesn't mean I'm less competent 😉

taxi, its not just the highway code, pretty sure one of the MTB orgs code says yield to the ascending rider. Despite that if I am ascending I usually yield to the descending rider (assuming its a quickish trail where they're having fun with speed) and this seems to be the norm amongst riders I encounter.

If I'm caught on a climb I will happily yield, and I also think climbing rider takes trail priority over bike pusher.

The only time i've ever encountered any sort of problem is at trail centres with long singletrack climbs (eg. Afan) where you'll catch a slow rider (or group of) who seem hell bent on keeping your behind them. Second to that is catching up with a stopped group who youve been hauling in, who when they see you coming desperately set off ahead of you when by far the most sensible option for all would be to let the quicker group through and continue shooting the breeze with your mates for another few seconds (which again we do if we are caught).

Second to that is catching up with a stopped group who youve been hauling in, who when they see you coming desperately set off ahead of you when by far the most sensible option for all would be to let the quicker group through and continue shooting the breeze with your mates for another few seconds (which again we do if we are caught).

This happens all the time. Gets on my tits.

Common sense etc, would never ask someone to move over, I don't think I've ever even called "on your left/right" while riding, strikes me as a bit aggressive for social riding, I'll just say hello to someone, most people move over. If not I'll just slow right down so they can get ahead and get a bit of a gap.

Would always let a quicker rider through at the earliest convenience.

[i]The only time i've ever encountered any sort of problem is at trail centres with long singletrack climbs (eg. Afan) where you'll catch a slow rider (or group of) who seem hell bent on keeping your behind them. Second to that is catching up with a stopped group who youve been hauling in, who when they see you coming desperately set off ahead of you when by far the most sensible option for all would be to let the quicker group through and continue shooting the breeze with your mates for another few seconds (which again we do if we are caught).[/i]

By contrast to mrlebowski I'm not sure I've ever had this sort of experience, and I live in the Afan Valley and so ride there all the time. This does give me the option to avoid 'rush hour' a lot of the time, but I do ride a fair bit of weekend daytime as well. Mind you my technique for getting by people has been described as 'politely aggressive', which is a back-handed compliment if ever there was one 😉

I find 'Could I get past, if/when you have the chance' a good phrase. Makes it clear that a bit of cooperation would be nice, but I'm not expecting anyone to dive off the trail out of my way.

+1 slow riders, buzz their rear wheel!

I ride trail centres lots I never ask to pass unless its very open normally after the single track. I'm quick but always say - 'keep your line dont stop, keep going'. More often than not they let me pass when they are comfortable I never expect them to let me pass.

Seen most things - best/worse bunch were a group looking at their head cam play back in the middle of the single track and ignoring two riders waiting for them to move. Clearly not beginers. As the third rider queeing to pass them I asked if they would mind awfully looking at the video at the single track. So its not all beginers slow or Turner riders 😉

I don't think I've ever let a descender stop so that I can keep riding up. If it was a fun descent I'd feel a bit hard done by if I had to stop for people plodding upwards.

Of course there'd be some sort of communication; like in most aspects of life, it is key.

I used to ride at GT and Inners, there're plenty spots on the long climbs to pass someone, so it's never been an issue there. On the DHs, if I get to the top and see a group getting ready to set off AND I want to stop, it's fairly easy to judge how quick they'll be through a section and set off accordingly. If I do meet another slower group, I normally stop entirely, hopefully before they've realised I'm there. I don't then 'waste' a section by riding it slowly, they don't get hassled/pressured by freewheels clicking away. This sometimes backfires, by them stopping 20 yards up the trail - meaning I've got to restart and get back up to speed with no rest - but it's all good.

One thing that I do, and let others do, but seems to annoy a small minority of others - if I'm riding up to the summit (say, top of Spooky Wood) and I'm not stopping, I'll ride through the folks hanging around beside the trail and keep going. Not people on bikes waiting to 'drop in' but the ones bimbling around getting ready to leave.

Opinions?

as long as if you're walking, you give priority to the one with the feet on the pedals, i don't really care. most trail centres are in sections and if i misjudge how much space i leave someone, that's my downfall, and if someone does the same to me, they'll have to wait.
although obviously if it's possible to make room i will. common sense trumps all.

One thing that I do, and let others do, but seems to annoy a small minority of others - if I'm riding up to the summit (say, top of Spooky Wood) and I'm not stopping, I'll ride through the folks hanging around beside the trail and keep going. Not people on bikes waiting to 'drop in' but the ones bimbling around getting ready to leave.

Opinions?

So you just carry on down the descent instead of farting about with you fork and saddle, followed by rummaging in you camelbak for a banana?

How very dare you, you must not be a proper mountain biker 😉

Militant_biker

So long as you don't get in the way 50 m down the trail 🙂 It would be different if they were waiting to set off and waiting for a clear trail but just faffing - ride thru 'em

Thing is though... if you stop completely to let the slower riders get away from you, you risk...

A) Blocking the trail.

or

B) Having more slow riders come past you.

anyone doing a red or black should expect faster riders to come up behind them, unless they are of course riding gods.

The problem is often that most trail centres have at least some common sections of trail - ie you could be a beginner who's just trying out a red trail for the firs time to find some stormtrooper merge from a black descent at full pelt.

It used to be such a friendly sport.

up hill has right of way as you can restart downhill very easily
Slower riders yields to the faster rider at a point of their choosing if they dont you choose it [ thisis unwise]
Dont take the grassy slope to the left of the deepish rut as it rises steeply and you then face a 5 foot drop into the rutty bit at speed. Dont accelerate to make sure you are in front of the rider you are tring to overtake
You may look skilled as you drop in to the gap but you will sacre the shit out of yourself and nearly die as you try and scrub speed to stop splatting the one in front of you that you had not even thought about who is also going much slower than you

When you stop at the bottom to chat off course you meant it and you knew the trail..dont let go of the bars they will see the shaking

I wait now

Descending rider has priority..

Unless its no biggy and you can see the rider coming up is climbing like a hero for the trail steepness- then I'd pull in and let him/her past.

uphill always has priority. Its would be polite to let the dh rider past but the DH rider can restart easily - the uphill one cannot

I tend not to let faster riders pass because I normally am going at the pace of the 11yo in front of me. They can wait until the section ends. In fact they normally give encouragement. They won't catch the teenager who disappears 😆

Will always give way to people coming uphill, as they might not be able to restart and climbing is hard enough!

TandemJeremy - Member

uphill always has priority. Its would be polite to let the dh rider past but the DH rider can restart easily - the uphill one cannot

Spot on.

djaustin - you have highlighted an exception to the rule... kids always have the ROW!!

I agree with TJ.

As a descending rider I'll just time my stop so I can track stand whilst a climbing rider goes past. If it's too steep to stop then they won't riding up it anyway?

No no no. All the above are incorrect.

As a STW we all know if the rider was female and relatively fit ALL STW males would stop, leer and attempt stilted-conversation.

[i]ALL STW males would stop, leer and attempt stilted-conversation. [/i]

sfb would just unpack his camera and wait until she was past him.

uphill always has priority. Its would be polite to let the dh rider past but the DH rider can restart easily - the uphill one cannot

Restart easily maybe, but what about stop? If i'm wanging it down a good section then I may find it very hard to stop for an unexpected party of uphill bikers. If you are riding up a section of trail that looks good for blatting downwards, then I'd suggest keeping your wits about you and being ready to move aside.

This rarely happens anyway ime as trail centres are one-way and in the real world you are usually aware that other people exist riding bikes and so are ready to move aside for someone descending fast on perhaps a rocky and loose path.

As a STW we all know if the rider was female and relatively fit ALL STW males would stop tell them we're hora online and watch them race off into the distance

[I think this is possibly the only area where the worlds of mountain biking and golf converge. In golf you let the faster group through when sensible to do so, i.e. at the next tee. As you should when on a bike.]

+1

sfb would just unpack his camera and wait until she was past him.

The Asian lady rider? :smokin:

kayak23 - Member

If i'm wanging it down a good section then I may find it very hard to stop for an unexpected party of uphill bikers.

Then you are going too fast for a two way trail. Or you need to learn to use your brakes. Its always your responsibility to stop in time. Always

1. on foot give way to anyone still riding.
2. up vs down give way to those going up, easy to start again heading down - also see point 1
If I hear someone catching me up I'll normally pull over if possible, if it's a downhill I'll speed up and hope I don't land on their line when I crash.

Dont take the grassy slope to the left of the deepish rut

[i]I may find it very hard to stop for an unexpected party of uphill bikers[/i]

it could be a childs face, though!

Then you are going too fast for a two way trail. Or you need to learn to use your brakes. Its always your responsibility to stop in time. Always

Sorry, still don't agree. If its a 'trail', as in a mountainbike track, then obstinately expecting everyone coming downhill to casually stop, doff their cap and allow you to pass is likely to result in a little Darwinian education. No, etiquette may be on your side, common sense however I fear is not.

where was that?

nan bield 😉

TJ is absolutely correct. A rider going uphill cannot be expected to dive for his life because someone is hooning around a blind bend. The faster rider has a responsibility not to harm anyone.

And on the subject of etiquette... what about those dicks you stop to let past you on the downhill who then are found hanging around on the fireroads in between the singletrack. I've seen me stop for ages waiting for them to take off again (seems little point in going on ahead of them when they are clearly faster than me) but they never go out in front. Invariably, I end up having to go in front of them and yes, within a couple of minutes, there they are again, right on my wheel. Drives me mad. The point is????? 🙄

Correct is not the same as sensible. I'm always aware that there may be people coming up a track, but much more aware that there may be people coming down one!
Anyway, each to their own.

I'm sure Jesus had something to say about this, though it may not have been specifically aimed at MTBers...

Bearded, sandal-wearer - must have been a single speeder 😉

Anyway, each to their own.

I struggle with long sentences

I'd give way if there's room and expect him/her to do likewise, it's pointless saying the faster rider has ROW if the slower rider is coming up a narrow bit of trail and the faster rider is coming out of a wide bit for example.

Make sure you can stop in the distance you can clearly see

What about if there's a blind drop?

I am in agreement with you though and wonder how many people have been involved in a crash with another rider (especially at a trail centre) because they've not been able to stop?

Make sure you can stop in the distance you can clearly see.

Yes,I do thankyou.

in which case kayak

If i'm wanging it down a good section then I may find it very hard to stop for an unexpected party of uphill bikers.

The Southern Yeti

What about if there's a blind drop?

You stop and scope it out or one of you goes first to make sure the trail is clear

What, even at a trail centre TeeJ?

what about those dicks you stop to let past you on the downhill who then are found hanging around on the fireroads in between the singletrack.

Going fast downhill and hanging around on the boring climbs? Total dicks, obviously.

+1 for common sense, and a bit of patience. It's supposed to be fun, right?

When i'm wanging it down a good section my bike makes a hell of a racket. You'd need to be pretty hard of the hearings not to know I was coming. Same applies when pushing up with other riders coming down. Stop. Look. And listen.

The Southern Yeti - Member

What, even at a trail centre TeeJ?

Euro - Member

When i'm wanging it down a good section my bike makes a hell of a racket. You'd need to be pretty hard of the hearings not to know I was coming. Same applies when pushing up with other riders coming down. Stop. Look. And listen.

And if you are deaf?

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