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I’ve been a member here for about 10 years, but this is the first time I’ve posted, so hello!
Anyway, as the title suggests, I’m in the market for a new MTB. I’ve got a budget of £1500 (absolute max), and for that I’m looking for a trail capable hardtail, but that wouldn’t be completely out of place when putting the miles in on tarmac or light gravel paths.
I’ve looked around a bit, and the new Canyon Grand Canyon 8 seems to fit the bill quite well...good spec, good value, appropriate geometry (previous gens being much more XC focussed, but seems they’ve adjusted some angles on this model). Just wanted to get some feedback from the forum on this choice, or perhaps some other suggestions...Vitus Sentier 29 VR, for example.
Be grateful of some advice.
Thanks
Any modern HT is going to work for you.
Mine is a 3yr old less than the latest long/low/slack and still flies around the place. It's done trail centres, local rides, up Munro's, bike packing and trying to keep up with son on DH/Enduro courses. It's even done a road tour on semi slicks.
The Vitus will be more 'relaxing' at speed and is a solid bike, a few of the kids at club had/have them. The Canyon a touch lighter and more nimble, but a touch more nervous at speed.
Imo, focus on the basics like lighter wheels, fork with good damping, good warranty.
Your gears will wear out, they aren't that important imo.
Saddle might need a change.
I had the Sentier 29, cracking bike that did pretty much everything and was surprisingly light once bars, stsm and saddle were replaced.
What size are you looking at?
At a push I might let my brand new custom Niner Air 9 go... Take a look in the classifieds and let me know if interested.
Specialized Fuse looks alright. Apparently a bit portly but I like the look of them. Haven't seen one in the flesh yet.
Whyte seem to have the UK trail HT thing sorted with their 900 range.
The scandal is a great bike 👍🏻
Yeah, the On One Scandal looks interesting...perhaps leans a little too much towards trail for my purposes, though? I’m definitely looking for a good all-rounder. Also, no dropper post? Seems to be a fairly standard feature at this price point?
Easy and cheap to add a dropper https://www.wiggle.co.uk/brand-x-ascend-dropper-seatpost-125mm-150mm
A dropper is £70-100 from brandx now, so just factor that into the cost.
Sonder Frontier for an all rounder (with room in your budget to upgrade stuff if you wanted), or a Transmitter for something more 'trail'.
A dropper is £70-100 from brandx now, so just factor that into the cost.
Ah. Ok, so not so bad then.
I’m probably a little bit spoilt when it comes to spec, because my current bike is the original Boardman HT Pro bought in 2009 with the XO groupset and Reba Race forks, so I think I’m being a bit hyper-critical when looking at these new bikes. I’ve no idea how XO has aged against the current SRAM ranges. SX Eagle seems to be most common at this price point and that looks like their entry level?
There’s really not much wrong with the Boardman, I’m just keen to get onto a 29er and something a bit more suited to trails.
I'd honestly stay away from Sram SX as it's their budget drivetrain. The Vitus 29 VRS is a cracking bike for the money and comes equipped with great Shimano gearing.
https://vitusbikes.com/collections/sentier/products/sentier-29-vrs-bike-xt-slx-1x12
Same position a few years ago - I bought a 2nd hand Trek Stache, put longer forks and an angleset on it, got new wheels. Anyway my point is also look 2nd hand and modify something to get what you want 👍👍
Also the Stache is great
Bizango carbon? Though I'd be surprised if they hadn't sold out.
Sounds like you're on the right track with the canyon given the riding you describe. As above, you can always add a dropper for trail days.
130mm fork - tick
premium brand - tick
full NX 12-speed (with upgraded GX chain) - tick
Decent wheels - tick
180mm/160mm rotors - tick
Dropper post with proper lever - tick
Renthal carbon bars (35mm diameter with Raceface stem) - tick
Super-fast rolling tyres set up tubeless - tick
Brand spanking new and never ridden - tick
In budget - very close tick
What's not to like? (very biased here as it's mine and i'm selling it).
Nukeproof Scout if you can get hold of one is a great trail bike.
That 29er Sentier above is really good for the money. I’d always pick Sram brakes - but I’d avoid Sram SX or NX groupset. Slx 12 speed is better than both. Rockshox Revs aren’t bad forks and if you ever wanted to you could stick a charger 2 damper in them to make them Pikes effectively.
I just sold my 650b Sentier as I fancied a posher custom steel frame, but it was ace and I hope I’m not making a bad decision!
Thanks guys and gals. Some good suggestions in here. The One One Scandal looks like great value, but I think I’m still leaning towards the Grand Canyon 8...only problem is, it’s not shipping until November! 😩
What about boardman mht 8.9 ? 1000 quid 29er not gnar plus a bit o cash to play with for dropper and ....
I have an orange p7 on eBay at present. Small frame tho.
Bird? I pretty much always buy used though. You can get a great HT used for that budget. My current bike cost a bit more and is great. Last gen Cotic Soul with XX1 Eagle drive train, hope finishing kit, Fox factory dropper and forks, Carbon Guide brakes and SRAM Roam 60 carbon wheels. Honestly felt like I was robbing the guy I bought it off as it’s also like new. If you’re patient your budget can go far.
I bought a scandal frame and built it up with some donor parts and some new stuff, it's great. Rebas, mavic wheels, and an eclectic groupset.
I don’t think there’s a single thing about that Canyon that’s better than the Vitus Sentier thats £1600 (neither are in stock).
The Canyon has downgraded the cassette to the heavy deore one and there are a few things that actually make it marginally heavier than the Vitus - despite the Vitus having much burlier tyres.
Both have fairly short reach vs seat tube height, but the Vitus will be a bit more stable at speed I’d have thought with the more modern / slacker headangle.
The Grand Canyon is neither here nor there for me - it’s not full trail but it’s not full race xc. The Sentier is more capable on trails and still manages to be lighter.
as the OP clearly doesn't want to buy my Niner (i tried)... can i suggest the Ritchey Ultra... you would have to buy the frame only (and it is not a cheap price for a steel frame), but with some determined parts buying, you could end up with a real 'bike for life' for circa your budget. i was going to buy one instead of the Niner frame, but i just couldn't get hold of one at the time.
I don’t think there’s a single thing about that Canyon that’s better than the Vitus Sentier thats £1600 (neither are in stock).
Other than the price? There's not a huge amount in the weight - Vitus 29 VRX 13.34kg < GC 8 13.58kg - but it's the 29 VRS or 29 VR which fall within budget. Comparing two with similar price points, i.e. 29 VRS (£1399) vs GC 8 (£1349), there appears to be much less in it, wouldn't you say?
The Grand Canyon is neither here nor there for me – it’s not full trail but it’s not full race xc. The Sentier is more capable on trails and still manages to be lighter
Not gonna argue with this, but that does mean that the GC kind of meets my brief better, I think. And again, the 29 VRX is over budget, so I'd be interested to get your thoughts on how the 29 VRS compares to the GC 8.
as the OP clearly doesn’t want to buy my Niner (i tried)… can i suggest the Ritchey Ultra… you would have to buy the frame only (and it is not a cheap price for a steel frame), but with some determined parts buying, you could end up with a real ‘bike for life’ for circa your budget. i was going to buy one instead of the Niner frame, but i just couldn’t get hold of one at the time.
Sorry buddy, I meant to reply. Bike looks great, but I'd need a medium frame (5'10) and also, this will be part paid for on my employers C2W scheme, so a private purchase wouldn't be allowed. Nor would a build. Appreciate the suggestion, though.
Not gonna argue with this, but that does mean that the GC kind of meets my brief better, I think. And again, the 29 VRX is over budget, so I’d be interested to get your thoughts on how the 29 VRS compares to the GC 8.
I actually think I prefer the spec of the VRS actually bizarrely. I’d take Guide T brakes over XT (I’ve had a go on too many bikes with shimano brakes that have a variable bite point) and it keeps the full SLX 12 speed other than an XT upgraded rear mech. I’d be just as happy on a Rockshox Revelation as a Fox 34 Rhythm. Whilst the Grip damper is probably marginally better than the moco in the Revelation it has an upgrade path to be made into a Pike with a damper change should you want to at a later date.
So I’d definitely take the Vitus over the Canyon. Both are pretty much direct to market bikes so if you have a warranty issue you’d have to deal with ChainReaction or Wiggle for the Vitus or Canyon in Germany. Either way not a quick process I’d suggest.
I'd get the scandal. But maybe keep the Boardman for lighter duties. Either put slicks on it or even used 700c wheels and gravel tyres
I’d get the scandal. But maybe keep the Boardman for lighter duties. Either put slicks on it or even used 700c wheels and gravel tyres
Would be a great shout, if I had the space!!! It’s one in, one out, I’m afraid!
Bird zero 29 comes in on budget (almost) if you can find the extra few quid definitely worth it,really capable on the downs but a good all day peddler (high stack) become my go to bike.
Bird zero 29 comes in on budget (almost) if you can find the extra few quid definitely worth it,really capable on the downs but a good all day peddler (high stack) become my go to bike.
Looks great. Appears to almost fall within budget, until you try to buy it. Seems like a bunch of components aren’t included in that base price.
So, still looking...
Appears to almost fall within budget, until you try to buy it. Seems like a bunch of components aren’t included in that base price.
That seems the bird model.
It's the reason I didn't buy one.
Any thoughts on the Orbea Laufey? Seem like good VFM. Perhaps a little on the heavy side?
Looks great. Appears to almost fall within budget, until you try to buy it. Seems like a bunch of components aren’t included in that base price.
Last time I looked, the Bird base price wasn't achievable at the time due to lack of availability of the default basic components. In normal times all the components are preselected and it hits the headline price.
I quite like the look of the Orbea and does look good value, as has been said.
cheapest sonder broken road comes in just over your budget, but looks a great frame for years to come
I may be about to press go on the Orbea Laufey H10, unless anyone here would advise against it?!
It's a strong contender, couldn't see anything wrong with it. Check out Hardtail Party's review on YouTube.
In the time honoured Singletrack tradition of recommending what you’ve got how about the Whyte 901 or 905?
Get the new steel Sonder Signal.
I seem to be circling back round to the Canyon Grand Canyon 8...just seems like more of an all rounder to me. And the spec seems pretty good for the money. Not fully made up my mind, though.
Definitely narrowed it down to two options;
Or
I’d take the Orbea - better head angle, broadly similar standard of fork but with more travel (Z2 is essentially a Fox 34 grip damper), shorter seat tube. Not sure what the wheels are like on the Orbea but the Alex Rims are heavy on the Grand Canyon as I’ve just built a cheapie set of wheels for my nephew out of the 23mm internal version and I’ve never come across such a heavy back wheel!
How about one of these?
https://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/354917/products/merida-big-trail-600-29er-hardtail-mountain-bike-2021-purple.aspx
I’d take the Orbea – better head angle, broadly similar standard of fork but with more travel (Z2 is essentially a Fox 34 grip damper), shorter seat tube.
Better head angle for what application, though? The majority of my riding will be XC or road/gravel tracks, with only occasional trail (mainly due to locality of decent trail and available time). The head angle on the Laufey is actually what’s putting me off it, just seems too far into the trail camp for my planned usage...
Paradiso
MemberHow about one of these?
https://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/354917/products/merida-big-trail-600-29er-hardtail-mountain-bike-2021-purple.aspx/blockquote >Was looking at that Merida Trail 600 today, but wasn’t too impressed with the spec for that kind of money.
Better head angle for what application, though? The majority of my riding will be XC or road/gravel tracks, with only occasional trail (mainly due to locality of decent trail and available time). The head angle on the Laufey is actually what’s putting me off it, just seems too far into the trail camp for my planned usage…
Most things really. It hasn’t got an outrageously long reach (medium is 432mm I think - I’m 5’9 and I’m building one with a 445mm reach which also isn’t that long)so it doesn’t have an enormous wheelbase. That headangle will give you some more stability at speed - but the steering won’t be slow either.
If you’re determined to get the Grand Canyon then just get one - you have to be happy with your purchase.
Ruled out the Orbea Laufey and now torn between the Grand Canyon 8 and a Radon Jealous AL 9.0...
The Radon is a coupe of Kgs lighter and has slightly better spec (depending on your SRAM/Shimano bias), but is much more of an XC race machine than the Canyon. I think that means it’s probably better suited to the majority of my needs, but I’m just a bit concerned it might struggle on more technical trails...Dalby Forest Red Route is likely to be the top end of the scale for me, and I get the impression that’s slightly more technical than it was when I used to ride it 10/11 years ago.
I’m very undecided and would be great full of more thoughts from the forum.
Personally it sounds like you ride a mix of things and that Radon, whilst being very light, is unlikely to be huge fun on a red trail centre trail vs something more trail orientated. It’s got basically a 69 head angle, long ish chainstays but a fairly short wheelbase and 100mm fork travel. If you’re going at speed that’s going to be more twitchy than the Grand Canyon which in itself is less stable than something like that Orbea.
If you’re just after outright speed uphills and on very easy trails then go for it. My order of bike purchasing would be Orbea > Grand Canyon > Radon I think.
I’m very undecided and would be great full of more thoughts from the forum.
*grateful
The Scandel geo is pretty close to the Big Dog which has been great at trail centres and on the road; so I very much doubt the Scandel wouldn't be just as adaptable. Mine came with a dropper 203/180 rotors 90% GX and 35s, all for £1200. Oh and the Gomas pumped up with a track pump when I changed to tubeless.
joebristol
Free MemberPersonally it sounds like you ride a mix of things and that Radon, whilst being very light, is unlikely to be huge fun on a red trail centre trail vs something more trail orientated. It’s got basically a 69 head angle, long ish chainstays but a fairly short wheelbase and 100mm fork travel. If you’re going at speed that’s going to be more twitchy than the Grand Canyon which in itself is less stable than something like that Orbea.
If you’re just after outright speed uphills and on very easy trails then go for it. My order of bike purchasing would be Orbea > Grand Canyon > Radon I think
I hear you man. And I’d love to get the Orbea, but the thing is, all my friends are on road bikes. I only have space/money for one bike, and a roady just does not appeal to me. But I would like to get something which would allow me to join them now and then without massively holding them back. I know that’s going to be virtually impossible on a mountain bike vs a road bike, but I think I’ll stand a better chance if I get something fast and nimble like the Radon, and it will still allow me to tackle the occasional XC trail.
I’ve been out of mountain biking for nearly 10 years. I’ve only recently started to get back into it, and had only really been running for exercise before that. My current bike is a Boardman HT Pro I bought on the C2W scheme back in 2009 and I used to do Dalby Red Route on that without a problem, and generally when I go out now, I go for distance over thrills.
In which case go for the Radon and some semi click tyres - or get a spare set of wheels you can bang some slicks on and keep the ones that come on the bike with mtb tyres on I reckon.
Either that or could you squeeze in a secondhand road bike for about £300 and go more trail on the mtb? You’d be surprised how much quicker a road bike with drop bars / 700 x 25c tyres is than even a quick / light mtb.
Just get a spare set of wheels with fast fat road tyres. Virtually any decent MTB wouldn't be far off in terms of speed. The biggest hold back is the single chain ring. You'd need to get free hubs and cassettes compatible with what you already have, with a 10 small cog. Due to free hub choice some wheels will only take an 11 tooth.
I don’t see many people keeping up on an mtb with fat slicks if you’re chasing someone who takes road cycling seriously. Little bit more drag from fat tyres, but more of an issue is aero with flat / riser bars.
I’ve got a Cannondale Caad12 disc with 25c tyres on it and even on my last hardtail which wasn’t too heavy I’d have got nowhere near the easy speed. Even dropping some rolling resistance and a few lbs more weight I just don’t see it.
Cheapie secondhand road bike for £400 (Spec Allez/ Giant / Boardman etc) with some of your budget and a Vitus Sentier 27 or 29 VR for £1100. Best of both worlds.
No way an MTB can generally keep up with a roadie crew.
There are two S2's that come out with us on their mtb's early in the season and as a bad A4 on my road bike I can beat them.
The riding position just isn't as efficient and at speed it's like pushing a barn door.
Surely if they are good friends of yours they will/should go at your pace, I'd expect my mate's to do that for me.
Indeed. Them’s the rules! They’re all pretty serious about it, though, so I’d feel awkward making them go too slowly!
Also, a couple of them are planning to do a trekking trip, which they plan to do on gravel bikes, and I’d like something I could join them on.
Sentier and a gravel / cyclocross bike? Something like a Caad X secondhand perhaps, or a Planet X something or other (don’t think a space chicken will be cheap enough
Unfortunately)
Inexpensive 2nd road bike is a great idea, I just don’t know where I’d keep it! I’m afraid, until I move to a bigger house, I’m limited to just one bike.
Man, I’m so torn! 😩
Well ultimately I don't see any one hardtail being tremendously faster than another so a hardtail and a spare set of wheels . Reminds me of the local city club that used to train like dervishes every winter and then get blown away at the races. They'd train too hard, never seemed to learn that you build a base best by doing long easy miles. I just used to ride the twenty odd miles to work and back two or three times a week. There's serious and then plain dumb.
@cloggy - that is kinda the conclusion I’d arrived at, it’s just a matter of which bike I settle on.
Got a Grand Canyon 6 on Thursday going out in a couple of hours, will report back. Wish me luck!
Head angle etc. Won't change your speed on the road. Bar height will
I think it choices time. Could you do 2 sets of wheels? Then either buy a gravel bike with road wheels and 650b wheels off road. Wouldn't quite work at Dalby but loads to do in the rest of the north york moores
Or buy a full race style hardtail again 2 sets of wheels. The key is abit more tuck. I have been round Dalby black and red with people on 100mm travel race hardtails. I assume they were fine. I couldnt see as i couldnt keep up
Radon have also launched the Jealous AL 8, which features the slightly burlier 35 Gold RL fork and a dropper post, and is £200 cheaper. Still maintains a good spec drivetrain but rims are downgraded, so I guess it will be slightly heavier but still fast, and I assume a tad more trail capable?
Went out on my Grand Canyon yesterday, Mrs Kilo was on a cx bike and we did a run I normally do on a cx bike (Nirvana loop) and it was bone dry on the trails. I am a very crap mtb’er - no air or big drops just xc type riding (I’m roadie at heart & even worse used to be a tester!)
The canyon was just what I hoped in being a fast xc bike. Other bikes might be a bit quicker but there’s not going to be much in it.
I have an ibis 650b full sus and over the last few years, after a big crash in a race in Canada, I’d pretty much stopped using it and would almost always take a cx bike for the Surrey hills and swinley riding we do. The canyon is going to be the step back to mtbs and deep winter hack.
As for road use, you will be very upright and With a wide frontal area - a bit of a windsock compared to a road bike, the 1x gearing will have a lot of gaps (I found myself going for a few ghost front ring changes in the first couple of hours). You’ll probably be able to keep up with roadies if you’re strong, they’re not caning it and you change the tyres. Whether you’ll enjoy that bit is a moot point!
If you can store second set of wheels your not far off storing a road bike - wheels off, bars turned and tucked up saddle dropped.
Seriously like the Grand Canyon but get a road bike as well (or a 650 / 700c cx bike).
@kilo - thanks for the review. Sounds like the Grand Canyon is perfect for you.
I may add a road bike at some point, but my focus is definitely on just an MTB at the moment. I might look at getting a second set of wheels in the short term, but I'll probably end up just getting a spare pair of tyres. That's what I do with my current bike - I have a set of Conti Double Fighters for road duties, Racing Ray/Rocket Ron combi for light XC, and a set of Nobby Nics for when things get a bit gnarly. I have no problem swapping them round.
To make my decision even more impossible, Radon have now launched this, which has really caught my eye! https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/radon-skeen-trail-al-8.0-1052567?currency=3&delivery_country=190 - If only I could raise the extra £400!!
if you're happy to spend less, the boardman mht 8.9 @ £1000 looks great value for money. Or the decathlon rockrider 100 for £1400 if you want full sus
That full suss will make you even slower than a hardtail on the road so I wouldn’t be too bothered about that. My hardtails have always been better joining bridleway a with road sections than the full suss.
That Jealous AL has a slightly odd spec - that Rockshox 35 fork is 35mm stanchions - so it’s not very XC even at 100mm travel. You normally see it on budget long travel trail bikes or budget enduro bikes. Would have thought a Recon or Reba would have made more sense in terms of weight when only 100mm travel required.
@joebristol - Yeah, I've ruled out the Jealous AL 8.0; as you say, the spec doesn't make much sense for me. An yes, the Skeen full-sus is completely off brief, but I just like the look of it!
Well, here it is...after way too much deliberation, I finally settled on this. Did I make the right choice? Possibly not, but due to a couple of twists of fate, I only ended up paying £1k for it, so that help me see past its shortcomings!
Pic doesn’t work for me, might be my iPhone?
How did you get it for £1k? That down to c2w saving? Shows as being £1400 on bike-discount.
Just the job. But your tea towel is a disgrace
What are those grips? How does it ride?
Looks like Ergon GA3 to me.
That frame architecture is identical to my Cube reaction SL,even the cable routing is the same.Wonder if Cube make frames for Radon?
Hope it gives you what your looking for.