[Closed] Trail bike vs enduro bike - which is more fun?

whether I'd have as much fun and be faster on something a little more slack with around 160mm travel, or if it would just make my life a lot harder going uphill

Neither of those are going to be true.

A better bike, that fits you better, and is more stable - will likely make you ride a bit faster.

The red one.

I mean my bike now fits me quite well I'd say. It's not red though.

I'm thinking it pops quite nicely off yumps and I'm sure it's more capable than I am already. And it goes uphill ok.

But rock gardens at speed are pretty choppy - my mates 6" travel Whyte DH bike (from about 2010) looked smoother / faster through them. Or he could just be better. In theory my others mates bike - a Kona Process 134 should have the edge on the Boardman DH but I was quicker than him.

Depends on what you define as "fun", but considering the majority of UK mountain bikers are over-biked, I'd say stick with what you have.

Fair point. Just don't want to be missing out if there is something more fun. Maybe I just want more bling which is completely unnecessary. Maybe I should just look at burlier forks for what I've got. 150mm pikes perhaps.

The more chop a bike soaks up for you on a descent the faster you can go.
The more skill you have the faster you can go.
Reduce either one and the descents last longer - descending for longer must be better, right?

The solution is clearly to ride a rigid XC bike, possibly while drunk.

And, maybe, blindfolded.

Presumable said rigid xc bike would be better as a single speed too, with no dropper post?

Could always buy an orange four frame...althought you'd have to change your forks to 130mm.
Your rear hub might not fit either as you'd need 148mm boost

The orange 4 is marginally shorter travel than what I have already - and is a single pivot design. What advantage (other than bling) would it have over the Boardman? Unless the geometry is more playful?

Easiest way to answer that argument (single pivot) is to test ride one. I chose a five over a trek and a lappiere that I test rode.
If I was buying again I'd probably have gone for a four. Sometimes the 5 is a bit to much for general trails/local XC, I'd assume that the four does them better. Just my opinion of course.

Santa Cruz alloy Bronson?

If you want a new bike buy one - most modern bikes are better for given travel compared to 4-5 years ago. I'm over biked for my skill level and the trails I ride but the bike gives be the confidence to ride harder and faster than I did on my previous one.

The airdrop edit looks a good buy at the moment

The orange 4 is marginally shorter travel than what I have already - and is a single pivot design. What advantage (other than bling) would it have over the Boardman? Unless the geometry is more playful?

You can keep all your important filing in it?

Shorter travel bikes make 'small' trails seem bigger. So you feel more heroic.
Longer travel bikes shrink 'big' trails, so you go faster.

Geo plays a part too, but with the variety available now you can pretty much pick your charactistics.

Congratulations on the new baby!

Might it be worth sticking with what you have until things settle down and you have a clearer view of what riding you are doing (as time etc allows)? As you said, the most fun bike will probably depend on the trails you do the most.

My experience of a new baby has been not much opportunity to do uplift days etc, but more time for shorter rides on local trails. My vote is therefore for lights 😉

I got a 160mm frame thinking that I really wanted to grow in to the kind of riding it was capable of. I didn't. It was so capable not even the Alps bothered it - they bothered me.

It was great at what it did well, but I'm happier on a shorter travel fully, and even happier on my rigid SS. Better under-biked than over for me.

There doesn't have to be that much difference- the most succesful enduro race bike of all time is officially a trail bike, it just got pressed into service because the company's main riders preferred it.

I always think the best trick a bike manufacturer can pull is to make a big bike that can ride small- there's a few out there, a 160mm bike doesn't have to be a blancmange or a fun-sponge on red routes.

The red one.

Thanks Owen, our baby (Eva) is great. I think we've been pretty lucky so far on the sleep etc so fingers crossed it stays that way.

Your suggestion is very sensible definitely. I probably don't need new forks or a new frame - just seeing all the over biked people and getting a bit of there green eyed monster!

I've got a mate who has an alpine 6 but I haven't been out riding with him for ages. Need to have a go on it next time I see him for a bike ride.

Fun sponge

Like.

'Fun-sponge' - great description!

So what are these 160mm bikes you talk of that still do ok on ups / less extreme trails, but still go downhill like a demon?

Preferably ones without boost spacing....but with 27.5 in wheels.

Then 160mm forks - without going mental on cost (no more than about £500) what're the best options? Yari vs Pike vs ?

I'd rather have the pike than the yari.

My transition suppressor climbs fine and it's coil sprung

I've always found finding the bike that fits the trails you ride is always the best. 150mm travel would be huge overkill for me. I do Xc all over the US and never needed more than 100mm in front and 80 in back.

It's all opinion, but unless you're doing downhill you don't need more than thaT

Nothing wrong with new/ bling bike envy, buying one doesn't mean it'll stop though. Modern trail bikes are just as capable as new #doyouevenendurobro race bikes for most UK trail riding but it's all relative. I bought a Five about 18 months ago because I always wanted one but something always niggled me with the way it rode, don't know why and can't really describe it. Mates all ride Bronsons and Capras and that sort of thing. I swapped to a Scout just before Christmas and love it, and don't get to ride as much as I like with a 10 month old. As others have said try some demos and see what it is you actually want, might be a better way go.

Trying a few demo days sounds like a great shout. Looks like there might be a Whyte one in a few months time that isn't too far away from me.

HeRd a few people on here talk up the transition scout. Saw a transition going round CC on the weekend (albeit even slower than me). Looked quite nice but I don't know anything about them.

The Scout is a great bike. I loved mine. Climbed well and descended like a bike with much more travel than it had. I decided to swap mine out for a carbon Patrol. Only because I only have one bike and it needs to do everything. The Patrol rides as well as the Scout uphill just will more travel coming down - and it accelerates very quickly!

I'd test ride both if I were you.

Just seen the patrol on the website. Is it only carbon or is there an alloy version?

There is an alloy one too 🙂

Transitions aren't boost yet either. Liking it over the Five as it's a bit shorter and the back end seems to grip s bit better. That's not to say the Five wasn't good the Scout reminds me more of a good hardtail (giggidy), just comfier.

When does a trail bike become an enduro bike? Isn't enduro just trail riding but you're timed on the downs, and trail riding you're Strava'd on the ups and the downs?

I think getting too hung up on travel misses the point that geometry makes a big(ger) difference.

I do Xc all over the US and never needed more than 100mm in front and 80 in back.

It's all opinion, but unless you're doing downhill you don't need more than thaT

It's not necessarily about need, more want. I have (slowly) ridden some (mild) DH tracks on my Anthem. But it's a lot more fun, a lot less scary, and a bit faster on a confidence inspiring skills compensating 150mm travel trail/enduro bike.

With me on board the difference in the climbing ability of the two bikes is much much less than the difference in the descending ability of the two bikes.

Found a bright yellow 2016 Transition Patrol - like that! Thinking 160mm Yari's could go on that and if I find them a bit lacking I could upgrade the damper at a later date (think a lyric charger fits as the same chassis as the Yari).

Now where can I find £2k from.....!!

My skills on the downhills and my fitness in the uphill both leave something to be desired for sure. Fitness is going to struggle to get any better this year (lack of time) unless I can make meaningful progress cycling in the road near where I live / on the turbo - in the odd hour session I can grab here or there.

Downhill skills also need practice - although felt ok at CC on the weekend just gone. After 6 months off pretty much (apart from a quick spin round Ashton Court a few weeks back) I was quite pleased. Got a few PR's on Strava bizarrely - mostly up but a bit on a few downs too.

My skills on the downhills and my fitness in the uphill both leave something to be desired for sure.

Are you me?

BTW I might know of a Transition Scout that I heard maybe up for sale, large I think.

My experience of a new baby has been not much opportunity to do uplift days etc, but more time for shorter rides on local trails. My vote is therefore for lights

Great advice and advice I will reinforce. The bike (and equipment) you need is the bike that will make you smile whenever you can find a moment to ride on terrain you have locally, be it roads, woods, towpaths, BMX track, velodrome... Don't buy a new bike that will be a "special occasions" toy.

...in the odd hour session I can grab here or there.

My odd hours grabbed here and there are either spent on the country lanes on the road bike or in the local woods on my mountain bike. An enduro bike would be an poor choice for both of those.

Where do you do most of your riding?

If it's at trail centres, get a trail bike IMO.

Mid-travel 29er is probably best of both worlds though.

What is an enduro bike?

So what are these 160mm bikes you talk of that still do ok on ups

TBH, it's mostly the riders legs and lungs that are the deciding factor rather than the bike

This bike wouldn't be my only bike - I have a slightly retro hardtail with 98 Bomber z1's on it and I have a Boardman team carbon road bike as well. So I would still have something appropriate for the local wounds / pump track / Ashton Court etc.

I've really enjoyed BPW when there and got an uplift day booked at FOD in April - it feels like if I'm going to go somewhere I may as well grab a whole day but make it less frequent in terms of how often I ride - that seems to sit better with the wife than trying to go out riding more often for shorter periods of time.

I'm lucky she likes going to the salon for nails / to get hair done etc as I have Eva (our baby) for a fair few hours at a time which buys me biking brownie points. At the moment I tend to take Eva and the dog out for a walk when I have them both - but when her neck is strong enough I plan to get a pull along kiddie trailer so we can go along the Bristol / Bath cycle track to a pub and back.

If you're not riding stuff like BPW that often, how about hiring/demoing enduro or even DH bikes instead? It will give you chance to learn what you like and what you don't and you might just find that it's a cheaper and more practical option in the long run than buying something that sits gathering dust for most of the year.

Fair suggestion. I'm doing an uplift day at FOD in April and it seems you can demo a transition patrol for £30 for half a day. They then knock that off the cost if you buy from them.

Could do half a day on the patrol then half a day on my Boardman to compare the difference back to back on the same day / same tracks. Assuming they'll let me take their demo bike on the uplift of course.

Could also grab a lap of the red / blue there to see how it pedals when you have to go uphill.

How tall are you Joe because if you want to pop over to the FoD you can come and try my Patrol alloy , its a large and yellow, i am 5.10 .

I've had a couple of bigger bikes in the past, an Orange Partriot and a Santa Cruz Heckler, both 160 travels.

I've currently got a Commencal Meta Trail. It's only got 120 travel but is great for riding Mendips, Quantocks, Exmoor and the FC stuff like Cwm Carn and Afan. I used to go downhill and assumed that I'd just hire a bike for those days but to be honest, now that I have something capable on descents and something I can ride up hills on without issue.

I'm more than happy with UK trail riding and feel that I see the best of this discipline. Like you we have a kid (two) and my other cycling is now with the kiddy trailer and my boys Frog bike.

I live near you if you wanted to have a look over my Commencal sometime. One thing I would say is that we have amazing biking on our doorsteps (Mendips when dry, Quantocks) and when you've got a kid, you just want something you can ride that on and get back in time.

joebristol - Member

So what are these 160mm bikes you talk of that still do ok on ups / less extreme trails, but still go downhill like a demon?

Old Slash, GT Sanction, Alpine 160 (no really, it's not that different from a Five). You can do a lot with minor suspension changes and tyres, too- my Remedy has a shorty 2.5 and a dhr2 2.4 in it so it doesn't feel much fun on easy trails right now, too much tyre but stick a dhr2 on the front and a minion ss on the back and it's suddenly a red route missile. That's a 29er so not in your request list, but, it's all relevant I think

Volksman - thanks for the offer of having a go on your patrol - I'm 5'9 but have short arms (teeny dino t-Rex arms according to one of my mates!) so it depends how long the reach is.

I'm on a medium Boardman frame with a 50mm stem which is probably fairly short.

Thebatesbristol- what commencal is it you have? I'm ideally going up in travel rather than down unless there's a bike that blows mine into the weeds in terms of fun and DH ability.

Northwind - Member

Old Slash, GT Sanction, Alpine 160 (no really, it's not that different from a Five). You can do a lot with minor suspension changes and tyres, too- my Remedy has a shorty 2.5 and a dhr2 2.4 in it so it doesn't feel much fun on easy trails right now, too much tyre but stick a dhr2 on the front and a minion ss on the back and it's suddenly a red route missile. That's a 29er so not in your request list, but, it's all relevant I think

Agree, most "trail" bikes end up built with the same forks (Pike, etc) and tyres as most "enduro" bikes. There's very little to choose between then in terms of weight and componentry - just 10/20 mm fork travel on a slacker front end. Look at Spitfire vs Rune, or Five vs Alpine, there's not much in it

It's a Meta Trail. It won't bore your mind on terms of dh ability. But tbh, how much dh are you gonna do with a young kid?

You've got to book ahead (always sunny when you're on the booking form but pissing down on the day),

It's inefficient: you'll leave the house at 830am, get home at 6pm, and yet only spent 50 minutes in the saddle, the rest in a van.

I got my bike I could ride the Mendips or Quantocks (plus get in the Elan Valley, Brecons, Snowdon etc).

I don't find uplift inefficient to be honest. I don't enjoy going uphill - uplift means I get the most downhill possible in a day.

If I book in advance and it's raining on the day I just suck it up and get on with it and worry about mud later. I generally need to book time in for me to ride in advance rather than anything spontaneous. That way Becky can plan something to do that day.

I'm not after a DH beast - just something that goes DH a bit better than what I have, without compromising the ability to cycle up hills some of the time too much.

I don't find uplift inefficient to be honest. I don't [particularly] enjoy going uphill - uplift means I get the most downhill possible in a day.

Exactly!

There are a lot of awesome 6"ish travel bikes out there - mine's just under that, 140mm rear, 150mm front but with a 64-65 deg head angle depending on how the dropouts are set. It's pretty unstoppable on gnarly trails but still works on flatter singletrack. But you can't skimp on the forks (stiff, good damping) and shock (good damping!)

If you see somewhere selling a v2 (2013-) Banshee Spitfire at a good price I'd buy it!

Will check out the Banshee and see what that looks like etc.

Glad someone else agrees with me on uplift - although it's so popular every uplift day there must be plenty of us that enjoy them.

Enduro bike - if you want a rubbish trail bike AND a rubbish dh bike rolled into one, then go for it.

That's one way of looking at it I suppose.

Sounds like many people would disagree (I haven't ridden one to be able to comment yet). A DH bike for me would be out of the question - I don't do anything difficult enough to require one - and I don't plan to race. However something with a bit more attitude but that will still be playful and want to pop off stuff would fit the bill nicely I hope.

deanfbm - Member

Enduro bike - if you want a rubbish trail bike AND a rubbish dh bike rolled into one, then go for it.

Sounds like you've only ridden rubbish enduro bikes, or maybe only ridden good enduro bikes rubbishly, tbh

Ha.

Started out on "enduro" bikes.

Got a dh bike and trail bike, became stupid and swapped them both for an enduro bike.

Serial swapping through enduro bikes (transition patrol, Kona process 153, wheel set ups, tyres, suspension).

Now back to a trail bike and dh boke and couldn't be happier.

Seem to fairly good rider.

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You got good height Dean...considering how slow you were going at the lip.

I can only dream about pulling off jumps like that....

Joe, I just went from a 140mm Spesh Stumpjumper to a 160mm spesh Enduro, the extra suspension makes a difference and the lyriks are noticeably stiffer then the revelations I had before.

But the main difference is the geometry, the SJ was 67.5 HA and 74SA, the new bike is 66 HA and 75SA with slightly shorter chainstays. The slacker HA makes it feel better at medium and high speed on rough ground and jumping, the short stays make the bike more playful and somehow the seat angle plugged into the rest of it makes it climb better!

It's all about the geometry, although if you look too hard it likes opening a can of worms!

To make uplift more time efficient, what about an ebike?
http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Cube-Stereo-Hybrid-120-HPA-Pro-500-27-5-2017-Electric-Bike_97778.htm?sku=348114&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google_shopping&gclid=COPe_oXp1dICFSEW0wodrhgCqA#

Just another option, don't be hatin' etc etc . .

Don't hate e-bikes but they will mean another tranche of people entering the sport who would otherwise do something else (golf?).

My dad at 70 still puts in 20+ miles around Kent (road) so I'll just switch to cx when I'm older.

My assumption is that e-bikes will want a trail centre experience out of their highly expensive purchase. Will be interesting to see how the sport responds on the whole. Brexit will have big implications for the centres, ESP bpw and other TCs.

A couple have made the most important point. Geometry is more important that travel. 160mm vs 140mm? Its only 20mm and weight should be about the same. But the biggest difference is that 160mm bikes have more aggressive geometry.

I think you're right to not settle for a bike for local riding just because you live where you are. Have the right bike for what you enjoy riding. Climbing is not really going to be significantly better or worse on either once you run some chunkier tyres and lower psi's.

Too much emphasis on having a bike that will increase fun for everything. But reality is if the trail is shit it will be boring on anything.

Go with your heart and not what the numbers say.

Seem to fairly good rider.

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I don't find uplift inefficient to be honest. I don't [particularly] enjoy going uphill - uplift means I get the most downhill possible in a day.

damnit beaten to it 😥

E-bike would still be slower up the hill, and would still use some energy up (albeit not as much). Plus aren't they quite heavy, so less fun on the downs?

Plus it's not worth incurring the wrath of 'proper mountain bikers' using electricity to cheat

Earlier today I was chatting with a very strong MTBer who was raving about the ridiculous climb he'd just done up a mountain on his ebike, going up so steeply that even with motor assistance he'd almost thrown up at the top. Doesn't sound like cheating, more like opening up opportunities!

I love it, but keep seeing more bling bikes with more travel.

This hasn't changed for me since I started riding, no matter what bike I've been on! 🙂

I'm going for a compromise this time.

I had the 150mm "enduro" bike was a bit boring and too easy as i haven't got the skills or confidence to take it anywhere near its limit. Went back to a decent hardtail and it makes some stuff more interesting/fun but takes the fun out of the rougher stuff.

So I've got my hands on a 130mm frame that will be run with 150/160 forks with offset bushes to make it nice and slack, only half done so far but hopefully it will be what i want.

If you're really not sure - and you're not open to big wheels - just get a 140mm bike.

Orange Five, Canyon Spectral... something like that.

I've had a go on a couple of 29ers and wasn't a fan. I've got a 130mm bike already with 150mm RS Revelations on the front. Not sure what the head angle is but I think it's fairly neutral.

E-bike would still be slower up the hill,

Very no - will be faster uphill, leaving you fresher for the descent.

Demo one, you'd be surprised, think of a camber that allows you to ride further/longer

I've had a go on a couple of 29ers and wasn't a fan. I've got a 130mm bike already with 150mm RS Revelations on the front. Not sure what the head angle is but I think it's fairly neutral.

Looks like it's about 68 deg if you're running similar sag front and back - so pretty steep in modern terms.

I was also going to say a big E-Bike, every day is an uplift day then.

Fun is a bit too subjective though innit, I like having fun, my hardtail is fun, but if you like going blisteringly fast, it's not as fun a full suss, even a short travel one.

To me, I think if I was doing uplifts and could afford two bikes I'd get a DH bike. If I couldnt afford two I'd get something like an Aeris 120, that would take a bit of abuse but not be a pig the rest of the time.

I tried two bikes from the same company, one Trail, one Enduro, and went pretty much set on the trail bike as a better "do it all". I loved them both. The difference in weight and climbing was so minimal, and the geo on the Enduro was spot on, that I thought Sod it, why not go for the bigger travel just in case; works a treat. Anecdotal but you get the point.

I tried two bikes from the same company and much preferred the trail model, despite a lower spec. Yours wasn't Cotic as well was it?

OP - are you keeping your Boardman then? If so, stick some offset bushings in it and crack on with getting an enduro bike as well.

Chakaping - nope not Cotic. Rose.

Nice rear wheel landing

I thought with all the bragging it was gonna be a rear wheel landing to manual. Dean, you'll be heartbroken im sure, but i've removed you from my list of people on STW who i thought could ride a bike 😛

Euro i've removed you from my list of people on STW who i thought could ride a bike

Seem to fairly good rider.

he's right though, what [i]did[/i] you stop for? 😆

JoeBristol,

Have you been convinced by the e-Bike revolution yet then?

Here's no way I'll be buying an e bike. I've got no excuse not to ride up hills fully under my own steam on days when I'm cycling more xc type circuits rather than an uplift. In fact I could do with getting fitter / lighter myself so any cycling up will be helpful.

With all the different suggestions I think I should demo an enduro type bike like a transition patrol and see how it feels. FOD might be a good place as I could try the red xc circuit and spend the rest of the day on the DH tracks (if they let demo bikes be used on the uplift).

If I did a half day demo for the first half of he day then did the same sort of stuff on my Boardman the second half of the day it would show me if there is an advantage to getting something like the Patrol.

I'd buy a frame and a better fork and try to use the rest of my current components on it rather than buy a whole bike I think.

Almost clicked 'buy' on a set of 160mm rct3 RS Pikes yesterday but held off. Thinking I could stick them on the boardman for now and they'd work on a longer travel bike too. Although it could strain my current frame with 160mm travel forks when it comes standard with 130mm ones (although so far it's been ok with 150mm travel).

Like I said, if you want to pop over and have a look at my Commencal Trail bike. You're more than welcome to - BS4 (Upper Knowle)

You don't 'need' to do an uplift to do the DH tracks at FOD. The push up isn't that bad, and on an enduro bike it's a ride up anyway. I demo'd an Aeris at FOD. Lap of the red, few runs on the DH tracks, then a quick blast round the blue.