You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Hi guys,
I've done some digging through a number of forums and sites trying to make sense of some of the specs and trade offs on certain bikes on offer at the moment. I'm drowning in contradictory or out of date info so I'm hoping some of you can help.
Firstly, I've recently come off an Enduro rig having moved back to Sheffield. The long travel was too sluggish on climbs. I'm looking for some suggestions. Good climbing but also fun to point down hill style bikes. I wouldn't say I'm a hard rider or would be doing many gaps or large drops. I value climbing efficiency and poppy, fun single track style over downhill.
My budget is around 4k, and I've been toying with the idea of Orange, Santa Cruz or Transition from some of the write ups I've seen in the 130 - 140mm travel arena. Thoughts primarily going towards the Solo (5010) at the moment, but it seems an expensive beast when compared to others. Can anyone comment on the characteristics of these bikes, or offer some other ideas? Also, carbon or Alu? I'm going with SRAM Eagle because I'm lazy and like the idea of pedalling up a vertical wall with the 50tooth ring.
I appreciate any advice you can offer.
Cheers,
Steve
My mates Kona Process 134 is the poppiest full suss bike’s I’ve ridden recently. His is a few years old but would assume the newer models are the same. Not great value for money though Kona unfortunately - the spec for the money doesn’t look great.
Someone I ride with from time to time had a Transition Scout a while ago (think he’s just swapped to a very lightweight 29er hardtail as he’s more into cross country) - that was a lovely looking bike and he said it rode well. I didn’t ever ride it to see what it was like though.
With Santa Cruz you’re always paying a premium for the brand.
The transition scout looks lovely, but a lot of people say it wallows up hill. I'll take a look at Kona, I have had a few in the past and they were built like tanks.
The thing driving me towards the 5010 is how everyone raves about it, but I can't understand why that specific bike seems to be held as being more fun than some others, hence the research.
Thanks for the input though I appreciate it.
Will watch this carefully - also pondering the same. Canyon Spectral or Trek Fuel Ex caught my eye so far - had a rental fuel at CyB for a weekend and good compromise between .speed up and speed down.
3 bikes it should be very easy to get a test ride on. Best advice is go try them and see how you go, simple differences SC = VPP which in many ways is ground hugging back wheel traction and very different to jump compared to something like an Orange Single Pivot, never ridden a transition.
as for the SC worth considering the high tower too, don't be set on wheel size just give some things a go
http://www.santacruzbikes.co.uk/demo-dates/
Yeah I agree in theory it should be easy to test the 3 but work commitments make it hard to schedule in. Plus travel to some of the demo days is awkward to arrange.
Ideally I want to understand more about why people seem to hold the 5010 in such high regard. I'm not set of wheel size, I've had one of each before so that doesn't worry me.
It seems to almost come down to brand preference and price tag and you kind of make what you have, fit your perception almost. There seem to be small nuances between pivot types but ultimately they're mostly similar, please shout up if I'm wrong, this is what this thread is for.
There seem to be small nuances between pivot types but ultimately they’re mostly similar, please shout up if I’m wrong, this is what this thread is for.
Generally not very similar giving very different ride feels, for me I'm a fan of VPP and the feel when I'm on trail but it's a different beast leaving jumps
it's a very broad topic OP
I'm having similar thoughts myself, the others on my list are the YT Jeffsy and the Whyte T130 - just not sure whether I'll miss the extra 30 mm of travel if I give it up! Probably just a comfort blanket tbh though...
Yeah it's a nightmare to try and navigate. It's not a small amount of money if you get it wrong either haha.
Someone else just mentioned intense as a brand to look at too. It gets more complicated the more you dig into it too!
YT Jeffsy
A few of us on here have Jeffsys, including me. I know it's tradition to recommend what you have, but really, I got it on the promise it would do what you want it to :
- Pedal well on singletrack and climb efficiently
- Be fun pointing downhill
I only recently have started using the shock in the "trail" mid position (and that's just because where I ride most in winter is very flat indeed, so the downhill bits just don't really happen). It climbs pretty well with the shock in Open, and is plusher going down. 140mm on a 29er is right for me - it remains composed enough on alpine DH, but isn't too much for my regular weekend ride round the forest singles.
I think the 2018 range doesn't have an Eagle option (my 2017 is the CF Pro with the Eagle group), but I think they do have a frame only option now.
I would certainly try to gets some demos with that list of bikes. Not only are they all different suspension designs there are some fair differences in the geometry, so the bikes will feel quite different. Not necessarily better or worse, just different with different compromises, so a matter of personal preference.
5010 is a great bike, I have had 2 (one of each version) As an only bike I can't think of a better option. Having said that am selling mine so Have PM'd you 😉
In typical STW #iownthebestbikeintheworld style, I'd look at the Whyte T130C for your budget. They're not superlight, my 2017 C RS with lighter wheels, tyres & carbon bar is only a knats bollock under 30lbs with pedals, but for all round riding I've yet to find anything it can't do. The suspension is definitely "feedback rich" rather than plush, but the geometry lets you get away with murder while still being agile and playful.
It climbs pretty well, a lighter bike would be faster for sure, but it pedals well and I rarely use the pedal platform cheater lever. If I'm really, really knitpicking the seat tube angle is not particularly steep, it's absolutely fine as it is but I've moved the saddle quite far forward and it would be nice to see a slighter steeper angle, just to help improve technical climbing performance even more. The seatclamp on the frame is a bit fiddly as well, too tight and the dropper is notchy and feels awful, too loose and the post will spin in the frame. Masses of fibre grip is the answer!
Overall its built like brick out house though (in a good way), has a threaded BB, 4 year warranty on the frame, lifetime warranty on the bearings and Whyte's support is pretty damn good. Honestly weight and seat tube niggles (and they really are, very petty niggles at that) for me I haven't ridden anything that would make me want to part with it. It's just a bloody brilliant bike. I noticed yesterday that Whyte are doing another version with the carbon frame to go with the C RS and Works, the C R. It looks to have the same spec as the alloy S but has the carbon frame and comes in a stunning green/blue/teal kind of colour and at £3250 it looks a real bargain!
also going to chuck in what I got - Bird Aeris 120. You could get a nice build with GX Eagle for under 3K, it goes up well and its a good descender too - 130 front, 120 rear. You can demo them from near Hamsterley forest trail centre, which would be a do-able day trip from Sheffield.
That Whyte does look nice! Another to add to this growing list. There is a growing number of people saying Whyte so that seems like a good one to take a look at.
The terrain it'll mostly be ridden on is rocky, flowing and mostly level with a rare trail center trip. There's going to be no clear answer to this haha .
Whyte t130 does sound a good option in fairness.
Ive been avoiding suggesting what I have (Bird Aeris 145) as it’s probably similar to what you have now - but someone has suggested the Aeris 120 above.
I’ve never ridden one, so I’m not sure how poppy they are. I’m sure someone else can comment - I think the 120 is less slack than the 145, but I’m not sure if it’s any shorter.
I find the length of the 145 (mine is now 160mm travel both ends btw) makes it feel harder to lift the front wheel and it just goes grouch rough terrain like it’s not there. Going uphill is ok but it’s not a strength of the bike I’d suggest.
Bird are great to deal with though - I managed to round out the rear stealth maxle this weekend - rang up this morning and spoke with one of the owners (Ben) and they’ve done me a great deal on a replacement and it should be wih me either tomorrow or Wednesday.
That's cool! I was just looking on the bird page and you can spec out one hell of a bike for about 6-700 less than some of the others.
The last year's models of some of the whytes are knocking about really cheap with some eagle kit on there. I might have to look at these in more detail.
yes the 120 is slightly less slackerer and longerer than the 145 - 10mm less reach and 35mm less wheelbase in the ML size, 64.5 HA vs 66.9. The geometry of the T-130 and Aeris 120 are very similar in length and angle with the whyte being just a tiny bit shorter.
Looks like there are 2 good value British bikes there to give consideration to them. Both are more orientated on the fun / downhill front than the xc end of things. I’d have bought a Transition Scout and maybe something like a Banshee Spitfire could also join the list and see which you can test ride easiest? If you’re willing to pay the money then add the 5010 in as well.
I’ve got a scout carbon and being honest it’s really really good but they’re very expensive. If mine wasn’t massively discounted I wouldn’t have bought it.
It isn’t the fastest climber but I haven’t found the bob that is mentioned in a lot of reviews to be a problem, it’s no more than I’ve noticed on any other bike. It’s fun and fast on the downs though.
Also, I found the stock monarch rubbish. I’ve changed mine for a coil and now it’s even more fantastic. Haven’t really ridden any of the other bikes to compare to though so this is probably little use to you 🙂
I've got a 5010, love it.
tested a few bikes the 5010 was the one, fair bit more dosh than the others I tried, but I figured if I didn't get the 5010 at the back of my mind I'd be wishing I had, so I saved up a few more months (yup, old school, saving up for things!)
course, you might try one and not get along with it (my heart was set on an orange 5, but just didn't work for me)
That's what I did with my last bike, bought what I told my self I wanted and didn't really take everything into account. Luckily I'm 80% of the way saved up for the Santa Cruz. Stupidly though one of the main niggling things about this year's models is the colour that I don't like so much.
The whytes are nicer decals wise but visuals aren't everything so I'm going to try and organise a couple of test rides over the next few weeks.
Intense Primer seems to be getting some good reviews, especially with the new pricing, having gone down the direct sales route.
Ibis Mojo is class, though maybe out of budget.
Also in STW tradition, Yeti SB5 is a screamer up and down!
Sounds like you've got a very similar thought process and requirements to me at the moment.
I've just spotted the Whyte above on Leisure Lakes and found this thread after a bit of googling.
Also wondering about the 5010 (but spec is pants in comparison), the Spectral CF8.0 and the Intense Primer.
Buying a bike is hard...
I've got a Whyte T130C works (excellent bike), but in the spirit of not recommending what I ride, how about Mondraker Foxy, they seem light/climb well for a bike with 150mm travel.
Rode various bikes at the MBR demo day yesterday and the one that stood out by far was the intense Primer. Fantastic bike up and down and climbed better than various others we tried - Spectral, Scott Genius, Nukeproof Mega, Rocky Mountain ?? and was almost as good on the downs.
If you ride mainly singletrack rather than super rocky stuff the KTM Scarp was unbelievably fast. It pedals and climbs at warp speed but you give away some comfort on the downs as it's only 90mm travel. Fastest bike I've ever ridden by a mile.
@tomd - very little to be honest. For a bike with that much travel it pedals amazingly both in twisty singletrack and uphill.
Really great bike, only negative was rear tyre clearance isn't massive. (Big enough for a 2.35-2.4 though)
That’s cool! I was just looking on the bird page and you can spec out one hell of a bike for about 6-700 less than some of the others.
The last year’s models of some of the whytes are knocking about really cheap with some eagle kit on there. I might have to look at these in more detail.
I think you're on the right track ... certainly on having a demo before laying out.
I've got an older (2015) T-130 in Al... my XC bike is a full carbon HT.
Despite what the scales say the T-130 doesn't feel bad on climbs... obviously its not a carbon HT but it really doesn't feel wallowy (I don't really bother locking out on climbs unless its 2000' of straight climb on mainly fireroad) and the tyres make a huge difference.
It's got 140mm Pikes on the front and gets used for occasional uplift days where it does tend to be the shortest travel bike on the trailer but seems to hold up.
I do like the Bird idea... especially being able to configure your choice of components and the long versions as I have stumpy legs compared to my body (or a long body for my legs) ...
The Whyte isn't perfect in that regard for me as I can't use 175mm cranks so I'd be ripping off a brand new and fairly expensive item before I even ride it. That said the reason I bought it was due to hiring one for a day and thinking how much fun it was.
4k budget...?
Haha. Should buy you a hell of an good trail bike!
Don't have any recommendations in this budget level. As trail bike I'am biking a Bossnut V2....
Fun maybe, for trail bike: a bike with an excellent COIL shock? And prepared to take 2.5 ... 2.6 inch rubber?
What was pedal feedback like on the primer @jet26?
Posted 11 hours ago REPLY | REPORT
jet26Member
@tomd – very little to be honest. For a bike with that much travel it pedals amazingly both in twisty singletrack and uphill.Really great bike, only negative was rear tyre clearance isn’t massive. (Big enough for a 2.35-2.4 though)
Its the same suspension design as my Recluse, I think. (150/140mm travel f&r). Mine climbs better than any other full-sus I’ve ever owned - it’s got a short back end which feels tucked under you. Even in greasy conditions yesterday I was getting up rooty steep climbs that I fail on most bikes. And downhill I’m the problem, not the bike. 😁
I've ridden, raced, uplifted and holidayed with my T130 over the last 2 years. It is a fantastic bike that is fun everywhere with no major issues, however it must be due for a major revamp any time now. That is the only thing that would put me off recommending it.
I’ve got a Whyte T130C works (excellent bike), but in the spirit of not recommending what I ride, how about Mondraker Foxy, they seem light/climb well for a bike with 150mm travel.
Having previously owned a Foxy and now owning a T130C also, I couldn't recommend the Foxy. They are just not worth the premium. They ride well, and if you want a flat out point and shoot machine they're great and they do climb well, but the spec is poor for the money and while the new Foxy Carbon is an improvement on the old one in terms of durability, they're just too expensive for what they are and the kit you get. The T130 is better value, imo rides better in more situations, is a lot more durable, more fun and just a better all-round bike.
I rode the primer at the MBR demo day too and loved it. I also rode the sniper, their new xc/trail bike, and thought it was even better, but probably shorter travel than you're after.
Kelron how did you think the Sniper was better? Seriously considering a Primer but the Sniper may be a better choice (didn't get to ride one).
Rode the KTM Scarp which was crazy fast but just too skittery at high speed on the downs, the Sniper might be a good middle ground...
I am enjoying my Trek Fuel 2018 29er immensely! It’s only the EX8 so you could go up models.
Trek will probably not be a popular choice but I tested a whole bunch of bikes and this one was my favourite!
Couldnt get on with the Whytes.
So many great options. I'd go for a shorter travel 29er myself. Well I did 🙂 But it should climb a bit better than a 27.5 all else being equal (which it never is of course). Plenty of great options there as well, just to confuse matters further 🙂
Trek will probably not be a popular choice but I tested a whole bunch of bikes and this one was my favourite!
Couldnt get on with the Whytes.
Weird ... my brother has a 2017 EX8 ... and I really liked it (other than having bottom loading brakes) .. the weird part being I don't get on with a whole load of bikes (fit/geo wise) except Whyte isn't on that list (indeed I bought one) ???
I’ve ridden, raced, uplifted and holidayed with my T130 over the last 2 years. It is a fantastic bike that is fun everywhere with no major issues, however it must be due for a major revamp any time now. That is the only thing that would put me off recommending it.
Someone "broke one" on Sunday @ 417....
I didn't see if it was the shock or a frame failure but looked nasty.... I saw the guy later riding a demo (S170) but saw the FB photo last night and it looked pretty sad.... and a bit scary since I'd had mine next to his on the uplift!
Bit overkill for trail biking:
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/radon-jab-9.0-hd-713771?currency=3&delivery_country=190
3.8 k
Jab 9.0 HD , low weight Carbon Enduro...
No idea how the 160/160 will feel on "tame trails".
Is the Jab a bit of an "Carbon Swoop"?
http://www.mbr.co.uk/news/bike_news/radon-jab-367623
Quite a new bike design. If the Jab is "better than the Swoop" it's an fantastic bike. The Swoop is great and some use the Swoop on trails as well.
Bit less travel with the Jab: makes it more trail friendly?
Swoop (o.k. - that's no trail bike...):
https://dirtmountainbike.com/gear/bike-reviews/trail-enduro-bikes/radon-swoop-170/
Jab: below 14 kg ... - interesting...(maybe)!
Another SC 5010 owner here.
I test rode the top model Intense Primer when it was costing a scary £9k. It did feel like cheating, it was so easy up the hills. To me it was a bit XC, I'd want to fit chunkier tyres, adding weight and slowing it down might kill the cheat factor. I've also ridden a couple of T130's alloy versions which are good, but the 5010 feels more comfortable, more alive and engaging, yet more capable also. I know the geo is so similar, but the ride is different. The 5010 just works as a balanced all round trail bike.
Finally, theres nothing better than test rides, make the effort to do it if you possibly can.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Kelron how did you think the Sniper was better? Seriously considering a Primer but the Sniper may be a better choice (didn’t get to ride one).</span>
Rode the KTM Scarp which was crazy fast but just too skittery at high speed on the downs, the Sniper might be a good middle ground…
Very light & fast without taking away my confidence downhill. Bear in mind I stick to easier trails, but I was just as comfortable on the sniper as on the primer or spectral.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Only real downside I could point to for my riding is the tyre clearance on the back. It did get clogged up at the end of the demo loop, but it was very muddy.</span>
Canyon Spectral:
http://www.mbr.co.uk/reviews/full-suspension-bikes/canyon-spectral-cf-8-0
mbr trail bike of the year 2018.
Sells in CF 9.0 Pro Version for bit under 4 k.
150 mm fork, 140 mm rear suspension
A bike which is a bit "tamer" than the "Radon Jab"? More suited for trail biking? Spectral around 13 kg, Jab around 14 kg?
Rode the spectral at the weekend - guess it's horses for courses - was quite underwhelmed by it - great on the downs but not great at all on the climbs and felt really slow and not at all lively.
Guess it depends what you are looking for though and plenty of others seem to rate it!
I've been looking at the Bird Aries 120 as my next bike, mate has a Whyte 130 which is good fun to ride.
MBUK/BikeRadar Trail Bike of the Year: YT Jeffsy 29 CF
I test rode a Whyte T130 (was coming from a T129, so i'm a fan of Whytes in general) and it was really good fun, but I bought a 5010 instead because it's what I knew I really wanted deep down.
I know the spec. on the Whyte is better for a price point, but the 5010 just felt more capable/controlled whereas the T130 felt a little on-edge and more lively. I imagine another rider would choose the Whyte for that exact reason, it depends how you like a bike to feel and shows that the numbers don't tell the whole story.
I wasn't sure i was really a good enough rider to notice significant differences between two 130mm trail bikes, but they were very different.
Another SC vote here. I was interested in the 5010 and the Bronson initially, but after reading and YouTube viewing, I ended up with the Hightower at the top of my list. I decided the bigger wheels would give me more confidence and stability. They do. I'd probably be just as happy with the 5010 or the Bronson, but I figured the Bronson had more travel than I needed.
Mine oddly came with 150mm forks, but I've not found it an impact on climbing. It has made me faster and more confident on the descents than my Trigger did. I'm still a wuss as my recent trip to Comrie Croft showed.
Shop around - SC do some deals towards end of season. I got almost 30% off mine from Bike Treks - they maybe wanted to shift the XL though.
Another recommendation for the Primer here. I had a T-129 (which was a very good bike) and the Primer seems better in every way. It's just so light and snappy feeling. I got a 2017 Pro model (at a very good price) which has the lighter frame and wheels and an X01 groupset. I swapped the 130mm Fox forks for 140mm Pikes, I suppose that added a few grammes. However, I took the dropper off, so that gained me more than I'd just lost.